As for being top 5 scorer in the WHL in 2005-06, I have to take your word for that, but he had a total of 21 goals,53 assists in 60 games. That does not sound like top 5 even in a defensive oriented league. The assist number is pretty good, the goals very pedestrian.
Seph, I'm not doubting you on where he played. I always was under the impression that he was drafted as a LW, but young forwards often are moved around.
As for being top 5 scorer in the WHL in 2005-06, I have to take your word for that, but he had a total of 21 goals,53 assists in 60 games. That does not sound like top 5 even in a defensive oriented league. The assist number is pretty good, the goals very pedestrian.
My memory is slipping a bit, I doublechecked and it turns out I lied. He was 13th in WHL scoring that season, though he played significantly fewer games than nearly all the players ahead of him. If he kept his pace and played the 10 games he missed while at the WJC, he would've finished with about 86 points, which would put him at 6th place just above Darren Helm and Devin Setoguchi.
So, not top 5, but for the WHL at that time, those remain very strong numbers. Since then, the WHL has opened up a little more, so they aren't really numbers that can be taken across the board. He also was at a ppg pace in his last stint in the AHL (albeit, he was only there 19 games). Not mindblowing or anything, but I would call that a scorer at those levels.
My memory is slipping a bit, I doublechecked and it turns out I lied. He was 13th in WHL scoring that season, though he played significantly fewer games than nearly all the players ahead of him. If he kept his pace and played the 10 games he missed while at the WJC, he would've finished with about 86 points, which would put him at 6th place just above Darren Helm and Devin Setoguchi.
So, not top 5, but for the WHL at that time, those remain very strong numbers. Since then, the WHL has opened up a little more, so they aren't really numbers that can be taken across the board. He also was at a ppg pace in his last stint in the AHL (albeit, he was only there 19 games). Not mindblowing or anything, but I would call that a scorer at those levels.
I agree, and with the fine shot (s) he possesses it would make sense. I still want to see him mostly on the right side. It seems that simplifies the game and he performs north-south and strong on that side as opposed to what we see as the "bad" Comeau on the left side. For some reason on the left, he either pulls up, or worse, he scampers first up the wall, then back down the wall, looking like he is in full panic mode and he doesnt quite know what to do next. He does not tend to have that reaction on the right. I think that was my point. He can fire it from either side (like last nghts rocket from the left) but he seems in much better position on the right.
I like this players skillset and I dont agree with others (not you Seph) that think he has no hockey sense. I think he gets lazy sometimes and then the panic skating up and down the wall on the left side are what people call low hockey IQ. If he can give a regular effort every night and stay away from that left wall mostly, I think will see a late blooming 20-25 goal 30 assist player who is very good on the PK.
I looked up the link (and searched around a bit), and two things stood out to me:
1) About a handful of forwards who were in the WHL that year have established themselves as legit NHL'ers. Is it always so few?
2) I'd probably trade the current Isles D-corpse for the D-corpse on (Comeau's) 2005/2006 Kelowna Rockets.
(Alexander Edler, Kyle Cumiskey, Luke Schenn, and Tyler Myers is a lot of talent on one blueline!).
As for this thread, I've never been a big fan of Comeau (although, admittedly, he did manage to convert me for a short while at the beginning of the season), but I'd take him over Mike Comrie of two years' ago any day. At least Comeau isn't paid 4 million.
I don't hate him, but I hate his inconsistency. The same with Bailey, which is why this team needs a better coach that can keep these young players motivated.
I don't hate him, but I hate his inconsistency. The same with Bailey, which is why this team needs a better coach that can keep these young players motivated.
Bailey drives me crazy. What we see so far is not a player who lacks certain skills, what we are seeing SO FAR is a player who is not a gamer.
He makes a few good passes a game, but he is so unengaged most of the time for such a young player. Every young player is told that they dont have to score a goal a game, but they have to find a way to contribute every game. Hitting, blocking shots, staying with your mark away from the play, fighting, winning puck battles against the wall etc. Bailey is doing nothing when he is not engaged in the offense, which is way too often.
The entire team is full of players who are miscast or not ready for the roles they have. I think people would hate Comeau less if the Isles had a couple legit veteran top 6 wingers and he could just do his thing and work through the inconsistency of being a young NHLer.
I don't hate him, but I hate his inconsistency. The same with Bailey, which is why this team needs a better coach that can keep these young players motivated.
That's why you need more vets and less Romper Room....the coach can lay out the law but he's not gonna be able to enforce it out there on the ice. Not without forewards ready to steal their spots.
That's why you need more vets and less Romper Room....the coach can lay out the law but he's not gonna be able to enforce it out there on the ice. Not without forewards ready to steal their spots.
Exactly. I would have loved to get Langebrunner here. It's an unfortunate situation with not being able to sign those types of players. In the meantime I hope Capuano can pull a Tony Robbins and get guys like JT (who's starting to turn the corner), Comeau, Martin, and Bailey to put in a consistent effort every night.
Goaljudge was spot on about Bailey though. When he isn't making a nice pass he's invisible, and not in a good way. He rarely initiates contact on the forecheck. He's had some horrible lapses in defensive coverage. Those first couple games back from Bridgeport he looked like the player we all hoped he would start turning into, that disappeared pretty quickly.
If the puck isn't going in for them or they're struggling in the offensive zone get your butt back on D and make sure you're doing your job there. I really wish the young guys on this team, sans Martin would throw their body around more. Comeau can throw some beauties but he gets too caught up with the finesse stuff. It would be nice if someone taught Joensuu how to throw a check since he looks so damn awkward doing it.
The rest of this season should be all about development of the players we know we want to keep here, and finding out about the others and where they fit in.
Then work on teaching as much as winning.
If Grabner is deemed worth retaining because of his speed, work on teaching him how and when to use it.
Find out where Baily fits in. Is he going to stay a winger or will he be a center.
When Bailey was drafted, Snow said something about him and JT being 1 & 2 centers scoring 80 points each fro 10 years. Bailey is in his 3rd NHL season (although it should be his first.....and maybe even still be in BPort by the way he plays). He has spent more time on wing than anything. When do we find out what he will be if not this season?
The rest of this season should be all about development of the players we know we want to keep here, and finding out about the others and where they fit in.
Yep - and that started with the 20-in-22 streak thingy and the subsequent Wiz and Roloson deals.
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Then work on teaching as much as winning.
I think I know what you're getting at. They seem to be doing that on this 8-3-1 stretch.
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If Grabner is deemed worth retaining because of his speed, work on teaching him how and when to use it.
It's funny, because sometimes he does some nice little things. Fact is though, neither his hands nor his head are as fast as his feet - and this CREATES problems for him.
He had me pulling out my hair several times last night.
He's trying to learn though. Against Edmonton, he had a break and shot. Last night he got a break and wanted to deke. It looked good until he lost the puck and was then visibly disappointed. He's overanalyzing. It may come together within the next 40 games.
We can see some Bergenheim in him, but his speed is better. Bergenheim is simply stronger and more agile in the corners. Grabner rarely wins the little battles. He also does this pull-back-the-puck-and-then-sling-it shot too often. It's usually blocked by the defenders because it simply takes too long.
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Find out where Baily fits in. Is he going to stay a winger or will he be a center. When Bailey was drafted, Snow said something about him and JT being 1 & 2 centers scoring 80 points each fro 10 years. Bailey is in his 3rd NHL season (although it should be his first.....and maybe even still be in BPort by the way he plays). He has spent more time on wing than anything. When do we find out what he will be if not this season?
I think we can safely assume that this team currently envisions him as a winger.
He did some good things again last night and easily could have had 2 or 3 points - but it wasn't a good overall performance. He's having problems on the defensive side of being a winger.
Fact is, only two of him, Schremp and Nielsen can be centers. Schremp doesn't seem to produce at all as a winger. Nielsen is simply the best all-round center on this team. That's become a bit of a fact this season.
We can clearly notice a difference when Nielsen's not in the line-up, whether the team finds a way to win or not. He's our glue guy.
Since Bailey can still produce a bit on the wing, he's likely to wind up there.
It's disappointing that he needs the time that he needs, but he's gonna get it with this franchise. As you mention, we've got 42 games to get him going and showing exactly WHAT he's gonna be for us over the long run.
Last night was the expected 'bleep' on a strenuous road trip of overachievement. I think the Comeau-Schremp-Bailey line is worth exploring for a while.
Grabner and maybe even Colliton can line up next to Nielsen, who I believe will be back against Vancouver.
He prolly could have played last night, but no problem in giving his groin the extra rest.
No doubt, this season is yet another of 'empty' money, where guys will develop and be analyzed.
Despite the advantages of a top 4 pick this summer, I'd still rather see the team edge up and put in a good word for the spots 8-10 in the conference. COULD be possible if Poulin is the real deal and Streit and Okposo come back in full swing.
Sidenote:
Anyone think we'll see Weight on the ice again this season? What are the chances of Hunter getting back on the ice any time soon???
Not that it looks like we really miss either, but I think that locker room kind of does.
The rest of this season should be all about development of the players we know we want to keep here, and finding out about the others and where they fit in.
Then work on teaching as much as winning.
Problem is that you develop players BY teaching them winning. You surround your young players with players that know how to win. The Isles seem to refuse to do that.
It's funny, because sometimes he [Grabner] does some nice little things. Fact is though, neither his hands nor his head are as fast as his feet - and this CREATES problems for him.
He had me pulling out my hair several times last night.
Completely agree. The kid has no hockey sense whatsoever but he seems to create 2-3 chances for himself each game just by his speed. I want him gone, but if we keep him, I think he'd be a great 4th liner believe it or not. I think if he's out there with a guy like Konopka/Weight/Gillies/Sim and can play anywhere decently 5on5 (which he can) then he can provide that game-breaking offensive threat against the opponents 4th line.
I doubt he can "develop" hockey sense but he does show flashes of real skill at times.
I just don't think he's good enough.
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[Bailey]
I think we can safely assume that this team currently envisions him as a winger.
I still hope for Bailey to play center. I think that's where his game is best suited.
If he's a winger, then I want to see a proper NHL caliber #2 center with some size. AND I'd want to see Bailey-Tavares on the same line. I think their games compliment one another perfectly and I cannot comprehend how they are NEVER on the ice together at all. Especially in a throwaway season like this. Completely unfathomable imo.
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Sidenote:
Anyone think we'll see Weight on the ice again this season? What are the chances of Hunter getting back on the ice any time soon???
Not that it looks like we really miss either, but I think that locker room kind of does.
I think they miss them on the ice as well. Weight's really washed up but for whatever reason, I still trust him on the ice more than some of the guys I see out there. His PP presence earlier this year was terrible, compared to even 2 years ago, but some of the guys we roll out there are simply bad.
I also think Hunter's consistency and board work are extremely underrated.
We somehow look past players that simply waste time out there but creating zero from the perimeter shift after shift but then bury a guy like Hunter.
Yes, you teach development by winning, but to be able to win, the young players need to develop better skills and habits. I think that these things should be going on simultaneously.
If Bailey is not considered a future winger, which is where the team is training him to play, I have no problem with that except that the "re-build" needs to be reconfigured.
As I think Redbull said, we need a big, fast, two way center for that 2nd line. With Bailey on a wing in future seasons, there is no one between Tavares and Nielsen on the team or in the pipeline.
Future wingers:
Okposo
Bailey
Nino
Petrov??
Moulson??
Gregoire??
Kabanov??
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Future centers:
Ullstrom???
Nelson???
Cizikas???
So Garth must get a center in that RB describes or we have a huge hole for several years to come at the best.
I still hope for Bailey to play center. I think that's where his game is best suited.
If he's a winger, then I want to see a proper NHL caliber #2 center with some size. AND I'd want to see Bailey-Tavares on the same line. I think their games compliment one another perfectly and I cannot comprehend how they are NEVER on the ice together at all. Especially in a throwaway season like this. Completely unfathomable imo.
That is strange - to be sure. They don't even see PP time together. And that although Bailey is being regularly employed as a winger.
Maybe if we had a real first line???
As for Bailey being a winger in general, I think there's a little future insight thought here, in addition to what I wrote about Schremp and Nielsen.
I think Snow is already thinking that each of Ullstrom, Lee and Cizikas have possibilities up the middle - Ullstrom maybe even as soon as next season.
Heck, for all we know, Cizikas will make an easy transition to pro hockey and push for an NHL job by the end of last season.
Now, if Bailey is simply the best option up the middle in addition to Tavares, then that is one thing.
Honestly though, I think they believe he will eventually produce and that when he does, it'll be regardless of whether it's on the wing or in the middle.
As long as they have other options up the middle (more than on the wings, although hopefully no less than Niederreiter, Petrov, Rak, and Gregoire will force themselves on management as winger options), then I can understand this train of thought.
As mentioned in other posts, I no longer think Nielsen is 'just' a spot holder. Management SHOULD see him as the long-term answer as the 3rd line center. His skating, intelligence and 30 points a season are exactly what every team wants in that spot.
Yes, you teach development by winning, but to be able to win, the young players need to develop better skills and habits. I think that these things should be going on simultaneously.
Of course. But, they develop their skills, habits and mindset better when they're given proper support by being supplemented with players that know how to win. As it is now, these young players are climbing uphill trying to develop on their own. Even if the team is still bad, having some vets to lean on will afford the youngsters a better opportunity to develop to their potential. I just don't think it's fair to say the season should be about the "development of the players", while simultaneously hampering their development by failing to support them.
Inconsistent is not the same thing as heartless. People just expect him to be some core player because he plays great for stretches. Just lower your expectations.
Of course. But, they develop their skills, habits and mindset better when they're given proper support by being supplemented with players that know how to win. As it is now, these young players are climbing uphill trying to develop on their own. Even if the team is still bad, having some vets to lean on will afford the youngsters a better opportunity to develop to their potential. I just don't think it's fair to say the season should be about the "development of the players", while simultaneously hampering their development by failing to support them.
I don't think we are arguing, I think we mean the same thing. i would love them to have some good, solid, experienced, and capable veterans to take spmeof the load off their shoulders, yet teach by example how to play, how to win. But unhappily, it does not appear that we will get these vets because of our misguided and cheap ownership and puppet GM.
I don't think we are arguing, I think we mean the same thing. i would love them to have some good, solid, experienced, and capable veterans to take spmeof the load off their shoulders, yet teach by example how to play, how to win. But unhappily, it does not appear that we will get these vets because of our misguided and cheap ownership and puppet GM.
And, thus, it damages the idea of this season being about development. Which means, there's basically no point to the season for the Isles. It's sad really because this could have been prevented.
