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Flyers’ Meszaros Quietly Having Banner Year

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01-08-2011, 10:42 AM
  #151
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Mez has been playing very consistent. He has the physicality we wish Coburn would show and a shot the opens up a lot of opportunities.

Is he overpaid? Maybe 500k overpaid. I don't think that would have allowed us to sign a goalie at 5-6mil.

One could probably argue the Kimo is also overpaid, but lets not do that.

One thing I do know, and it hurts to say, but Simon Gagne is definitely being overpaid this season. 23gp 3g 4a 7pts

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01-08-2011, 10:45 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Mez has been playing very consistent. He has the physicality we wish Coburn would show and a shot the opens up a lot of opportunities.

Is he overpaid? Maybe 500k overpaid. I don't think that would have allowed us to sign a goalie at 5-6mil.

One could probably argue the Kimo is also overpaid, but lets not do that.

One thing I do know, and it hurts to say, but Simon Gagne is definitely being overpaid this season. 23gp 3g 4a 7pts
I know you said lets not do that, but Im gonna state the there is a VAST difference between Timonen and Meszaros. Its not even fair for Meszaros to compare the two.

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01-08-2011, 10:47 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, that's the real problem with the 4M salary. He's played well for this club, but most competent D would given the assignment he has drawn. You could sign a guy like Eaton for a notably cheaper deal and get good play out of that roster spot... or, hell, see if Bartulis could become a legit D in this league and, if necessary, make a deal for a veteran for the 3rd pairing at the deadline.
Yes but what ur really buying is an insurance policy. If Prongs and Timo go down, Mesz could arguably do a better job filling in than Eaton.

There is a similar debate gping on in Vancouver. Their fifth Dman is either a 3.5 mil Bieksa, or a 4 plus Ballard.

There is VALUE to having an overpaid but more competent 5th Dman. You see that value more in the event of injury to the top 4.

And at other times you dont see the value and whine about overpayment and fantasize about what an xtra 1-2 mil could've bought you.

A singularly unappreciated position. BTW: I think on Philly at times Coburn or Carle could rotate with Mesz as the 5th Dman, they seem to be of similar talent.

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01-08-2011, 10:50 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Whose to say our .913 is sustainable? That .913 has been falling for a month or so now.

Assuming you get the stud G, he makes the weaker D better... he makes the weaker forwards... better. Improve the play in goal, and it improves every player on your roster across the board. Now, the return is subtle... and not necessarily there if you're talking about the second tier of guys.
I guess Marty is just having a bad year? His d sucks in front of him. Hmm

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01-08-2011, 10:55 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Yes but what ur really buying is an insurance policy. If Prongs and Timo go down, Mesz could arguably do a better job filling in than Eaton.

There is a similar debate gping on in Vancouver. Their fifth Dman is either a 3.5 mil Bieksa, or a 4 plus Ballard.

There is VALUE to having an overpaid but more competent 5th Dman. You see that value more in the event of injury to the top 4.

And at other times you dont see the value and whine about overpayment and fantasize about what an xtra 1-2 mil could've bought you.

A singularly unappreciated position. BTW: I think on Philly at times Coburn or Carle could rotate with Mesz as the 5th Dman, they seem to be of similar talent.
Yeah we can afford the deep D this year with Giroux and Leino making less than 2 mil combined. The problem is next year. As many others said Carle should be the one we trade this offseason. (Ignoring the fact that I dislike Carle, Points have better trade value, even as a D man)

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01-08-2011, 10:58 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I know you said lets not do that, but Im gonna state the there is a VAST difference between Timonen and Meszaros. Its not even fair for Meszaros to compare the two.
Oh I know. I am just stating that one could argue it. People are complaining about Mez's point production at his cost, yet Kimo has been declining every year since we got him, including his pace this year.

Now I truly don't care as long as he is a rock on defense, and that should be the same view for Mez. Maybe when we don't roll 3 scoring lines I could better understand that side of the argument.

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01-08-2011, 11:11 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
People like to say that, but I think it was the lack of credible 3rd D pair that cost us the Cup. Niemi isn't any better than Leighton. Chicago just didn't have to play 4 D-men 25+ minutes each to stay in games, and by the end the Flyers wore out.
Agree that Philly couldve won the Cup with a 3rd D pairing like they have now....BUT

Who was Hawks' third pairing last year and what was so great about them?

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01-08-2011, 11:19 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Agree that Philly couldve won the Cup with a 3rd D pairing like they have now....BUT

Who was Hawks' third pairing last year and what was so great about them?
they also sucked

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01-08-2011, 12:20 PM
  #159
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He's one of our best defenseman. He has a hard shot from the point, he's smart around our net. He's a smart player and you can see that in his +/-

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01-08-2011, 04:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I guess Marty is just having a bad year? His d sucks in front of him. Hmm
To be fair to Marty, he's old, and likely fatter than ever.

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01-08-2011, 10:14 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I guess Marty is just having a bad year? His d sucks in front of him. Hmm
Have you watched Marty play goal this year? He's been crappy. That Devs team is nothing to write home, but when they go from getting very good goaltending to mediocre goaltending, they go from competitive to non-playoff team.

Of course, they also need to start scoring goals themselves.

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01-08-2011, 10:16 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Oh I know. I am just stating that one could argue it. People are complaining about Mez's point production at his cost, yet Kimo has been declining every year since we got him, including his pace this year.

Now I truly don't care as long as he is a rock on defense, and that should be the same view for Mez. Maybe when we don't roll 3 scoring lines I could better understand that side of the argument.
Reason #1 why?



Watch Timonen and how he plays when he's out there with Pronger... he's all over the place, coming way up the wall, etc. Basically, he begins to assert himself offensively. Now Timonen was never an offensive stud to the degree that Pronger has been throughout his career, but he's probably sacrificing about ~10 pts a year to babysitting duties.

Outside of this year (which I still suspect will change), Timonen has also been a PPQB stud for this team.

Meszaros and Carle have combined for 2 PP points, despite running the second unit the entire year.

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01-08-2011, 10:23 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
I hate Meszaros' price tag, and I think he's had a very easy season playing sheltered minutes. That said, he's a big boy who plays tough, and supports the attack in the offensive zone just as well as Coburn and Carle. If I'm moving salary to accommodate Carter, Giroux, Leino, Powe, and Nodl, I'm moving Carle.
I'm getting over Coburn at this point. Physical tools only get you so far if the mental game doesn't catch up. Sort of depends on cost going forward between him and Carle. Carle at least provides some offensive flair... Coburn's offensive game is non-existent, and his defensive game is unpredictable to say the least.

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01-09-2011, 07:16 AM
  #164
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Carle's plays like that one yesterday are Jones esque though.

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01-09-2011, 08:15 AM
  #165
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This thread is pretty typical for the "fans" on this board.
Guy starts a thread commending Mez's play, and folks feel the need to knock him because of his salary.
It's not Mez's fault he makes what he makes. It's also not his fault he plays against lower competition.

Fact is he's done exactly what the Flyers have asked to do well and more.

For that he should be commended.
Very solid season.

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01-09-2011, 08:38 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
This thread is pretty typical for the "fans" on this board.
Guy starts a thread commending Mez's play, and folks feel the need to knock him because of his salary.
It's not Mez's fault he makes what he makes. It's also not his fault he plays against lower competition.

Fact is he's done exactly what the Flyers have asked to do well and more.

For that he should be commended.
Very solid season.
The article is ********, regardless of anything about Mes. That's what I was commenting on. The writer didn't do any in depth research, looked at a plus minus stat and then wrote a bunch of ********.

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01-09-2011, 09:06 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Have you watched Marty play goal this year? He's been crappy. That Devs team is nothing to write home, but when they go from getting very good goaltending to mediocre goaltending, they go from competitive to non-playoff team.

Of course, they also need to start scoring goals themselves.
They are very close to being on pace to being the worst offensive team since they went to 80+ games, and you are going to blame goaltending?

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01-09-2011, 09:30 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Carle's plays like that one yesterday are Jones esque though.
You sure love hating on Carle...The amount of anti-Carle posts you have made in this thread and the GDT is disturbing.

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01-09-2011, 09:41 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by DenverBoone View Post
You sure love hating on Carle...The amount of anti-Carle posts you have made in this thread and the GDT is disturbing.
That play Carle made was BRUTAL. I'd love to see you try and defend it. Or try and claim that Pronger holds Carle back again. But yes Carle is one of my least favorite flyers, because he constantly makes brutal decisions with the puck outside of the offensive zone, and gets paid too much for it. I am a Flyers fan first, I don't post here as a fan of 1 player.

All different poster reactions to Carle's **** up:

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Carle, go **** yourself.
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Carle for the All Star team!
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Carle, die in a pool of your own blood.
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Holy **** Boucher!

And **** you Carle you moron.
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Carle owes Boucher.
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omg Carle.... and OMG BOOSH!!!!
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Wow, Carle!! That was your lowlight of the game! You should be buying thank-you cards in bulk for Boucher.
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holy **** Carle you are one lucky *******...

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01-09-2011, 10:06 AM
  #170
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You sure love hating on Carle...The amount of anti-Carle posts you have made in this thread and the GDT is disturbing.
It's only being a hater when it's not valid criticism.

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01-09-2011, 10:10 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It's only being a hater when it's not valid criticism.
I do pick on Carle most of any other player on the team, but I believe it is valid criticism.

In the GDT yesterday I also called out Nodl, Mez, and Richards(my favorite player) for bad plays.

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01-09-2011, 10:26 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Reason #1 why?



Watch Timonen and how he plays when he's out there with Pronger... he's all over the place, coming way up the wall, etc. Basically, he begins to assert himself offensively. Now Timonen was never an offensive stud to the degree that Pronger has been throughout his career, but he's probably sacrificing about ~10 pts a year to babysitting duties.

Outside of this year (which I still suspect will change), Timonen has also been a PPQB stud for this team.

Meszaros and Carle have combined for 2 PP points, despite running the second unit the entire year.
That is a pretty random and baseless assumption.

The PP has been crappy all year round and Mez has 2PP points, no need to lump in Carle to make you stats sound nicer.

Anyways I do not want to argue that Kimo is overpaid. He might be for his point production, but he excels in many other areas that make up for it, and that was my point for Mez.

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01-09-2011, 10:39 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I do pick on Carle most of any other player on the team, but I believe it is valid criticism.

In the GDT yesterday I also called out Nodl, Mez, and Richards(my favorite player) for bad plays.
Again, it's not picking on someone if you're pointing out what's actually happening, and what actually happens is that you can't trust him to get the puck past an opponent 10 feet in front of him.

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01-09-2011, 10:43 AM
  #174
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They are very close to being on pace to being the worst offensive team since they went to 80+ games, and you are going to blame goaltending?
And the offense... did you miss the explicit sentence referencing their offensive woes? However, their goaltending has been subpar this year.

Of course, some of their offensive woes stem from the defense they've assembled, which I criticized prior to the season...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
That is a pretty random and baseless assumption.

The PP has been crappy all year round and Mez has 2PP points, no need to lump in Carle to make you stats sound nicer.

Anyways I do not want to argue that Kimo is overpaid. He might be for his point production, but he excels in many other areas that make up for it, and that was my point for Mez.
If Timonen wanted to pot more points... he'd pot more points. He's very similar to Scott Niedermayer (step below in talent) in how he plays the game. There is a pretty significant difference between Timonen with the puck on his stick, and some of these other guys.

And I'm baffled about the "lump in Carle" comment... they have been the D pairing for the 2nd PP unit for most of the season, and they have created absolutely SQUAT. It isn't some random choice... one of the biggest problems for the PP this year is that our 2nd pairing D hasn't created any offense on the PP, and Meszaros and Carle are that pairing.

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01-09-2011, 10:46 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I do pick on Carle most of any other player on the team, but I believe it is valid criticism.

In the GDT yesterday I also called out Nodl, Mez, and Richards(my favorite player) for bad plays.
Carle is frustrating, for sure. Coburn just frustrates me more. He's an offensive void -- not a big deal necessarily, just a reality; and he's sporadic in his decision making defensively.

Carle makes bad plays with the puck and all of that, but the team does generate some offense with him on the ice as well.

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