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Daily Hab-it: Subban's apprenticeship begins

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Old
01-08-2011, 12:42 AM
  #1
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Daily Hab-it: Subban's apprenticeship begins

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...MontrealSports

Great article by Arpon Basu. I found the stuff about Gill the most interesting.

Quote:
Brian Gionta, by all accounts, is not the type of captain who will pull players aside and give them the straight goods, or stand up in the room and inspire the troops.

That role, it appears, belongs to Gill.

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01-08-2011, 12:54 AM
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nice read thanks ! It's quite interesting to see how big Gill influence seems to be in the room.

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01-08-2011, 02:21 AM
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Great article... not enough of them. Always great to see things from a different perspective.

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01-08-2011, 03:18 AM
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Very nice read. It helps understand why Gauthier has begun contract talks with Gill. His contribution to the team is a lot more important than what we can see on the ice.

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01-08-2011, 04:21 AM
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That's indeed a great read, thank you.

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01-08-2011, 05:44 AM
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It's no secret that Gill's a leader in the locker room.. You can see it on the ice.

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01-08-2011, 07:17 AM
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but lets not resign him at any price!

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01-08-2011, 08:04 AM
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Does Basu read HFBoards or what?

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01-08-2011, 08:57 AM
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I've been saying for a while now that I wanted Subban paired with Gill instead of Picard, and I always thought they should room together on the road (I don't know if that is the case).

Gill is a seasoned vet that knows what it takes to win, and although he may be a completely different type of defenseman than Subban he can certainly help him improve and become a better player and person. Gill is a great guy.

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01-08-2011, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Does Basu read HFBoards or what?
Basu used to have his own website last year before writing exclusively for CTV and the discussions there were better than here, imo.

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01-08-2011, 09:50 AM
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It is indeed a nice read. I particularly really enjoyed the angle about how PK playing a sound defensive structured game will eventually help him out on the offensive end of things. It made me think of the first game he got benched after he tried to dive on a pinch on the PP against the Oilers.

JM is a much better coach than what you hear around here. It's too bad. Without wanting to target anyone in particular I find a lot of fans here have a very limited pov on what exactly Martin is trying to do. It gets boring to read things like "JM is ruining players, he only likes 4th liners etc etc". It's nice to read something like this because it offers so much more insight than that other stuff you hear constantly repeated.

He wants PK to be the best possible defenseman he can be and I think that in the long run PK will benefit from it. Just imagine a Josh Gorges with Mike Green type offensive skills.

Good stuff.

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01-08-2011, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
It is indeed a nice read. I particularly really enjoyed the angle about how PK playing a sound defensive structured game will eventually help him out on the offensive end of things. It made me think of the first game he got benched after he tried to dive on a pinch on the PP against the Oilers.

JM is a much better coach than what you hear around here. It's too bad. Without wanting to target anyone in particular I find a lot of fans here have a very limited pov on what exactly Martin is trying to do. It gets boring to read things like "JM is ruining players, he only likes 4th liners etc etc". It's nice to read something like this because it offers so much more insight than that other stuff you hear constantly repeated.

He wants PK to be the best possible defenseman he can be and I think that in the long run PK will benefit from it. Just imagine a Josh Gorges with Mike Green type offensive skills.

Good stuff.
I don't think Martin is bad coach and I've been on the bandwagon of firing him since day 1, I just don't like his style of play. Martin is still an above average coach, but I would love to see how Subban woul play with an offensive oriented coach. That's when I feel like Subban will shine more. Having Martin as a coach for him to polish his defensive play is good, but at one point or another, he needs some space to start to get creative and that's how he produces points.

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01-08-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruski17 View Post
I don't think Martin is bad coach and I've been on the bandwagon of firing him since day 1, I just don't like his style of play. Martin is still an above average coach, but I would love to see how Subban woul play with an offensive oriented coach. That's when I feel like Subban will shine more. Having Martin as a coach for him to polish his defensive play is good, but at one point or another, he needs some space to start to get creative and that's how he produces points.
The problem with going to an offensive system without some real bona fide first line superstar players is you end up like the Maple Leafs this year or the Oilers last year. The other team fills your net and their net is only half full.

We're screwed, either our defensive system works or we need to do a proper rebuild.

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01-08-2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruski17 View Post
I don't think Martin is bad coach and I've been on the bandwagon of firing him since day 1, I just don't like his style of play. Martin is still an above average coach, but I would love to see how Subban woul play with an offensive oriented coach. That's when I feel like Subban will shine more. Having Martin as a coach for him to polish his defensive play is good, but at one point or another, he needs some space to start to get creative and that's how he produces points.
Weel, Subban is great at bringing the puck in the offensize zone ... but is it me or ... everytime he does it, nobody flollowed him ? He's like alone in the corner waiting for some help.

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01-08-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Basu used to have his own website last year before writing exclusively for CTV and the discussions there were better than here, imo.
I know, but the "issues" he mentioned were very similar to what some of us here were saying. I guess we, Habs fans, are on the same page.

I like Basu's articles on NHL.com too. I have a feeling the other homer authors don't like him though

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01-08-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
The problem with going to an offensive system without some real bona fide first line superstar players is you end up like the Maple Leafs this year or the Oilers last year. The other team fills your net and their net is only half full.

We're screwed, either our defensive system works or we need to do a proper rebuild.
I agree. We don't really have the team to go with an offensive minded system. If you look over the years at teams without superstars who have won the cup (and even teams with superstars) you tend to find that defense wins it more often than not.

I think what people miss sometimes is that defensive systems don't necessarily mean stifling the offense and the creative thinking of offensive players.

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01-08-2011, 11:42 AM
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Martin believes defense helps offense. It's not just for PK, but everybody.
That is what his system is all about. Tell PK to play full out offense and join the rush up every time he can, I'm sure he'll have a few extra points.
Telling him to focus on Defense will only make him a better all around Dman, which is great, but I disagree with the idea that him focusing on D will help him be better on O.
PK is a rookie, he needs time to adapt. Whether he's told to play full out offensive, or strong defensive, he will need the same adaptation time. Once his vision gets better which only comes from experience, he'll be better offensively.
It's like Mike Green. He was never told to concentrate on D, yet he had 15pts through his first 92 games.

That being said, I have no problem with PK being told to focus on D. It will make him a better all around D. His offensive side will come from his natural style and talent.

I'm not worried about PK.

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01-08-2011, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
Weel, Subban is great at bringing the puck in the offensize zone ... but is it me or ... everytime he does it, nobody flollowed him ? He's like alone in the corner waiting for some help.
... and Gomez was having the same problem for the first 30 games or so this year except he would end up at the half boards trying to make a pass through traffic to the slot. Teams seem so good at defending a single guy entering the zone by himself, it doesn't matter who it is, it doesn't seem to work very well.

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01-08-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
The problem with going to an offensive system without some real bona fide first line superstar players is you end up like the Maple Leafs this year or the Oilers last year. The other team fills your net and their net is only half full.

We're screwed, either our defensive system works or we need to do a proper rebuild.
Did we have a real bonafide superstar three years ago when we finished 1st in East and had the 2nd best offensive in the NHL?..

We have the elements to bring in a decent offensive production. Gionta, Cammy and AK are pure goal scorers. Those three can put up goals anywhere from within 20-40G. Then we have Plekanec that can put up 25. So far, that is comparable to Koivu-Kovalev-A.K-Plek.
What we are lacking compared to that year is depth and defensive contributions.
Markov and Streit together combined for 120pts. We'll be lucky if our whole squad adds up to that total this year.
You had the addition of SK on the 2nd line that produced at .5pt/gp pace 30 games into the year. Higgins was able to score 27 Goals.
It's been two years and we still have the same top 6 problem. Hopefully MaxPac can turn that around but can't expect him to pot 25-30.
After, we have guys like Ryder and Lats, that even if used as 3rd or 4th liners, scored 14 and 16 goals.

See, we didn't have a superstar then. We did have more depth in terms of scoring talent. Our depth this season is too young or simply not all there yet. MaxPac, Eller, Pouliot and DD are not going to bring in as big a production as Higgins, Lats, SK and Ryder did. Pouliot might be able to bring in 15G and finish the year on a .5pt/gp ratio, which is actually quite good considering he's a 3rd liner playing under 12min (he's the 51st most productive Left winger in the NHL and it's not until the 69th position that someone plays less, which happens to be Darche).

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01-08-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Did we have a real bonafide superstar three years ago when we finished 1st in East and had the 2nd best offensive in the NHL?..

We have the elements to bring in a decent offensive production. Gionta, Cammy and AK are pure goal scorers. Those three can put up goals anywhere from within 20-40G. Then we have Plekanec that can put up 25. So far, that is comparable to Koivu-Kovalev-A.K-Plek.
What we are lacking compared to that year is depth and defensive contributions.
Markov and Streit together combined for 120pts. We'll be lucky if our whole squad adds up to that total this year.
You had the addition of SK on the 2nd line that produced at .5pt/gp pace 30 games into the year. Higgins was able to score 27 Goals.
It's been two years and we still have the same top 6 problem. Hopefully MaxPac can turn that around but can't expect him to pot 25-30.
After, we have guys like Ryder and Lats, that even if used as 3rd or 4th liners, scored 14 and 16 goals.

See, we didn't have a superstar then. We did have more depth in terms of scoring talent. Our depth this season is too young or simply not all there yet. MaxPac, Eller, Pouliot and DD are not going to bring in as big a production as Higgins, Lats, SK and Ryder did. Pouliot might be able to bring in 15G and finish the year on a .5pt/gp ratio, which is actually quite good considering he's a 3rd liner playing under 12min (he's the 51st most productive Left winger in the NHL and it's not until the 69th position that someone plays less, which happens to be Darche).
True enough. From a pragmatic side I don't think we have enough offensive talent to dominate teams but if management wants to go for it, I'll get some popcorn and watch.

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01-08-2011, 01:41 PM
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Hal Gill

The intangibles are incredible... he's up there in the top 5 players because of his intangibles .

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01-08-2011, 01:45 PM
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That's interesting...

Martin gets fired, Muller takes Martin's place, Gill takes Muller's place.

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01-08-2011, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
The problem with going to an offensive system without some real bona fide first line superstar players is you end up like the Maple Leafs this year or the Oilers last year. The other team fills your net and their net is only half full.

We're screwed, either our defensive system works or we need to do a proper rebuild.
We don't need superstars, although it would be nice. We have many 20-30 goal scorers like Kostitsyn, Cammy, Gionta, Plekanec, Pouliot, (in the future Pacioretty and Eller and maybe other prospects too) and we have defencemen who could score quite a few points like Subban and Weber and Wiz, so we are well balanced offensively, but I've always felt that those players are suffocated by Martin's style.

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01-08-2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
That's interesting...

Martin gets fired, Muller takes Martin's place, Gill takes Muller's place.
Gauthier gets fired and Gill becomes GM. It worked for the Islanders, didn't it?

In all seriousness though I'd much prefer to see him in a player development role working with some of our younger defencemen (Tinordi in particular) and work his way up a little. Either way, I hope he stays with the organization for a long time.

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