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Jack Johnson agrees to extension (7 years, 4.36 Million Avg)

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Old
01-09-2011, 08:49 PM
  #76
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See Visnovsky, Lubomir...
Lubo had not signed a discounted contract and he had been a UFA before. Jack gave up all of that.

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01-09-2011, 11:03 PM
  #77
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See also bed, crapped the

right before the NTC was going to kick in on a long term deal.
First of all this is hugely overblown...secondly it doesn't matter it was still a chicken**** move (burrowing term from no name). He was a guy who when he signed the deal actually it was a discount, considering the recent signings at the time of Campbell and Phaneuf(as RFA). And insistanted on the NTC since he LOVED LA. Show to trade him right after resigning longterm just before a NTC is a chicken**** move, thats why I would not at all put it past DL to trade JJ right away, he obviously cares nothing at all for how much players respect him.

And to no name...as I stated above it WAS a discount when the contract was signed and Lubo was giving up ALL UFA years, while JJ is giving up only 4 years RFA, 3 UFA and is set to become UFA at age 30...right when most D-men are in the middle of their prime...so what all did JJ give up?

Anyways, back to the main point I dont mind this contract one bit...solid signing...onto DD, Simmer, Williams.

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01-10-2011, 08:06 AM
  #78
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For someone who likes to talk about player loyalty and tattoo's on butt's the Visnovsky trade was in extremely poor taste, no idea how anyone can say otherwise.

A guy signs long term at a discount giving up UFA in the process, and less than a year later you ship him off to Edmonton, nothing against Edmonton but it's widely considered the NHL's version of Sibera amongst the players.

If Lombardi moves Johnson anytime in the next 2-3 years he will probably have a hard time signing anyone long term without a NTC clause.

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01-10-2011, 08:30 AM
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For someone who likes to talk about player loyalty and tattoo's on butt's the Visnovsky trade was in extremely poor taste, no idea how anyone can say otherwise.

A guy signs long term at a discount giving up UFA in the process, and less than a year later you ship him off to Edmonton
... 100% agree. While I've grown to appreciate the guys the Kings got in return for Visnovsky, the trade was absolutely in poor taste and put in my mind an idea of Lombardi being a "do as I say, not as I do" type of guy. One off-season after two All-Star type seasons didn't warrant that kind of treatment; it was just another case of Dean going "this isn't my guy, so I can't wait to have an excuse to ship him off."

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01-10-2011, 08:57 AM
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... Doughty's been a better player this season, too.



... All this says to me is "I'm biased" because you literally haven't the first clue of what either player did or does now to commit to their jobs of playing hockey for a living. I don't like the practice of making up stuff to discredit players, especially those who are looking to re-up with the team for a few years or more.

Again, I don't profess to know what goes on in their respective lives away from the games. I'm saying that Doughty has been the better player, this season as well as before this season. The gap between the two isn't as much right now as it once was, but it is still clear who is better.
It is Doughty that clearly has more talent. It is Johnson that at this time has the better work ethic. Nothing I said was made up. Several people that post here have "sources" within the organization that supply information. You think what is being written is made up, then I suggest you use the ignore button to eliminate all opinions based on said information.

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01-10-2011, 09:46 AM
  #81
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... 100% agree. While I've grown to appreciate the guys the Kings got in return for Visnovsky, the trade was absolutely in poor taste and put in my mind an idea of Lombardi being a "do as I say, not as I do" type of guy. One off-season after two All-Star type seasons didn't warrant that kind of treatment; it was just another case of Dean going "this isn't my guy, so I can't wait to have an excuse to ship him off."
This is so much baloney. Kopitar was not "Dean's guy" yet he received a big contract and wears an "A". Brown was not "Dean's guy" but signed a great deal and wears the "C".

Does your universe have a place where players are accountable for their own performance and what they get and don't get is based on that?

Lombardi made a mistake in giving Lubo the extension. I am sure it was not an easy decision, but if you look back at the trade at the time Lubo did not really fit with this group in terms of his age. He had been banged up a little. Difficult to say that the trend for his performance might not be on the decline. He was also given an "A" in his last season and didn't really step up. He deferred on the ice to Blake way too often and was a turnover machine in his own end.

It was a solid trade for the Kings and a good hockey move for the team.

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01-10-2011, 09:49 AM
  #82
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Great news, and its amazing that we got him for such a low cap hit. If Doughty signs a discount contract, then the Kings will be able to sign Semin or Parise this summer!



Just curious, why is it that so many people expect Drew to get a short term contract? is it because of the problems between the league and the players union?
Since you quoted me, I'll respond. Personally, I think that the drop in DD's play from last year to this year will cause a division in terms of what each side thinks is a fair salary on a long-term deal. Doughty's camp will want to be paid based on the 2009-2010 season and DL will immediately point to this season and base his offer on that. I think the two sides will be to far apart to come to an agreement on a 5-10 year deal, thus resulting in a 2 year deal where Doughty can prove just how good he really is.

Right now I think he'll get a cap hit above Jack Johnson, if for no other reason than the fact he was a Norris candidate last year, but not a lot higher, thus the $9 million for two years I suggested.

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01-10-2011, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
This is so much baloney. Kopitar was not "Dean's guy" yet he received a big contract and wears an "A". Brown was not "Dean's guy" but signed a great deal and wears the "C".

Does your universe have a place where players are accountable for their own performance and what they get and don't get is based on that?

Lombardi made a mistake in giving Lubo the extension. I am sure it was not an easy decision, but if you look back at the trade at the time Lubo did not really fit with this group in terms of his age. He had been banged up a little. Difficult to say that the trend for his performance might not be on the decline. He was also given an "A" in his last season and didn't really step up. He deferred on the ice to Blake way too often and was a turnover machine in his own end.

It was a solid trade for the Kings and a good hockey move for the team.
I agree 100 per cent. And I was happy with the trade then and absolutely love it now.

I also agree 100 per cent that it was a chicken **** trade to move a guy 3 days before his NTC kicks in, less than a year after signing him too it. Just calling it as it is.

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01-10-2011, 10:51 AM
  #84
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Lubo was fine when we signed him, but when we were about to be handed Drew Doughty who would start off with a $3 million + cap hit, it no longer made sense. We already had Johnson and Hickey, and now we were adding Doughty on top of it all and Lubo's clause was about to kick in. Acquiring Greene and Stoll was a solid deal by Deano.

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01-10-2011, 11:13 AM
  #85
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The owner's mandate when Dean re-signed Lubo was to remain competitive during the rebuild. After the season, Dean was allowed to blow it up and do a full rebuild with youth. Dean obviously felt that the contract extension with Lubo was a mistake and traded for 2 pieces that filled important holes in the lineup and were more in line with the age of the team.

You would rather a GM keep a player that he felt no longer fit with the direction of the team? He fixed a mistake before the NTC kicked in, I see nothing wrong with it. It's not like he signed the contract and 2 weeks later he was traded. The team failed during the season and the GM went with a full youth movement.

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01-10-2011, 11:13 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
This is so much baloney. Kopitar was not "Dean's guy" yet he received a big contract and wears an "A". Brown was not "Dean's guy" but signed a great deal and wears the "C".
... Yawn. Kopitar made his NHL debut after Lombardi took over as GM. He was the Kings #1 prospect; obviously Lombardi would have been retarded to deal him off. Brown stayed precisely because he signed the Dean-friendly deal. Otherwise, he'd have been gone, too. Mighty big of Dean to keep both of them around, wasn't it? Such a charitable fellow he is.

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Lombardi made a mistake in giving Lubo the extension. I am sure it was not an easy decision, but if you look back at the trade at the time Lubo did not really fit with this group in terms of his age. He had been banged up a little. Difficult to say that the trend for his performance might not be on the decline. He was also given an "A" in his last season and didn't really step up. He deferred on the ice to Blake way too often and was a turnover machine in his own end.
... It's awesome and hilarious that you need to go on into this belabored and ridiculous explanation to justify your hero making a completely classless move. I don't know if you needed to write that because you wanted to justify it in your own mind, but it certainly isn't going to do that for me. Cool story, though.

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It was a solid trade for the Kings and a good hockey move for the team.
... I already posted that I liked the players he got in exchange for Visnovsky but thought the manner in which he went through with it was garbage. And, it was.

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01-10-2011, 11:22 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
...

... It's awesome and hilarious that you need to go on into this belabored and ridiculous explanation to justify your hero making a completely classless move. I don't know if you needed to write that because you wanted to justify it in your own mind, but it certainly isn't going to do that for me. Cool story, though.


... I already posted that I liked the players he got in exchange for Visnovsky but thought the manner in which he went through with it was garbage. And, it was.
So you want the GM to just hang on to guys over loyalty? Never mind that the direction of the team is changing and he has a tradable asset that could improve the team and fit with the new direction?

If Jack is traded this off season for a long-term signed Parise, you make that trade. It's not a chicken **** move, it uses an asset to acquite another asset that the team is lacking. The Kings have defensemen coming up that could possibly fill Jack's offensive shoes, but the Kings do not have a winger like Parise anywhere in their organization.

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01-10-2011, 11:38 AM
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It's stupid to think players don't know when they sign a contract that they can be traded. It's a business and the GM's job is to improve the team.

If you wanted to see the team handcuffed by the Visnovsky contract which included the NTC after the season he just had, then that is just very unwise management of an asset and failure to use all of the tools at your disposal. It's awesome that some here just can't evaluate a player based on performance alone. Visnovsky's play was not very good his last season in LA, which probably was a key factor in the direction the team decided to take, but hey Lubo shouldn't have to take any responsibility for his own play.

BTW, agree 100% with the comment regarding Parise and Johnson. Jack is an asset to the organization and a very valuable asset. He is even more valuable now that he is signed for the next 7 years to a reasonable cap hit.

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01-10-2011, 11:41 AM
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You guys totally miss the point, no one is talking about the hockey part of the trade. I personally would rather have Lubo who is on pace for a 65 point season, but the hockey part is not relevant.

It's a manager who preaches player loyalty and then trades a guy who at the end of his contract would have finished his 13th season with the Kings, if anyone had a Kings tattoo on his butt it was Lubomir Visnovsky.

Now what Dean did was totally within the rules, no one is debating that. He had every right to trade Visnovsky. But if you are going to make trades like that, then don't make BS comments about player loyalties or tattoo's on their butts if you clearly are going to treat them like mercenaries. It was the perfect example of saying one thing and doing another. It was Nick Saban saying "I am not taking the Alabama job" and a week later being introduced. Just don't make comments like that and preach loyalty if you aren't going to live up to them.

Loyalty is a two way street, wouldn't you agree Sydor25?

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01-10-2011, 11:46 AM
  #90
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You guys totally miss the point, no one is talking about the hockey part of the trade. I personally would rather have Lubo who is on pace for a 65 point season, but the hockey part is not relevant.

It's a manager who preaches player loyalty and then trades a guy who at the end of his contract would have finished his 13th season with the Kings, if anyone had a Kings tattoo on his butt it was Lubomir Visnovsky.

Now what Dean did was totally within the rules, no one is debating that. But if you are going to make trades like that, then don't make BS comments about player loyalties or tattoo's on their butts if you clearly are going to treat them like mercenaries. It was the perfect example of saying one thing and doing another. It was Nick Saban saying "I am not taking the Alabama job" and a week later being introduced. Just don't make comments like that and preach loyalty if you aren't going to live up to them.

Loyalty is a two way street, wouldn't you agree Sydor25?
I think some of you take comments like the tatoo thing way too seriously. Lombardi is looking for players that are committed to being a professional.

There are always going to be situations where the most solid professional may not fit into the team's plans anymore.

It's not like Lubo is suffering. He is still making great money and PLAYING hockey in the NHL. Based partly on his performance the team (Lombardi) decided to move in another direction.

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01-10-2011, 11:49 AM
  #91
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Loyalty is a two way street, wouldn't you agree Sydor25?
Of course it is, but situations change and the business of sports sucks for people sometimes. Was McLean happy with Lou saying that he was there for the long haul and then fired 2 days before Christmas? Was that a **** move by Lou, sure, but **** happens and sometimes you have to make changes.

Being an NHL GM isn't designed to make friends. Dean probably had every intention of keeping Lubo for the long haul when he presented the contract extension to Lubo. **** happened during the season that was not expected, both with the team and with Lubo, and Dean had the chance to pickup 2 valuable players for a player that he previously had long term plans with. He did with Lubo what most wanted done with Cammy, get maximum value for a player that is no longer in the long term plans.

So, you are okay with Dean and Murray finishing their contracts? What if the Kings implode in the second half and finish in the bottom 5 of the NHL. You want him around 2 more years since he signed an extension this past off season?

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01-10-2011, 11:54 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
You guys totally miss the point, no one is talking about the hockey part of the trade. I personally would rather have Lubo who is on pace for a 65 point season, but the hockey part is not relevant.

It's a manager who preaches player loyalty and then trades a guy who at the end of his contract would have finished his 13th season with the Kings, if anyone had a Kings tattoo on his butt it was Lubomir Visnovsky.

Now what Dean did was totally within the rules, no one is debating that. He had every right to trade Visnovsky. But if you are going to make trades like that, then don't make BS comments about player loyalties or tattoo's on their butts if you clearly are going to treat them like mercenaries. It was the perfect example of saying one thing and doing another. It was Nick Saban saying "I am not taking the Alabama job" and a week later being introduced. Just don't make comments like that and preach loyalty if you aren't going to live up to them.

Loyalty is a two way street, wouldn't you agree Sydor25?
I think you are taking his words too literally, and ignoring the fact that he was given the contract as a reward which he has still enjoyed lucratively. The problem is that the hockey aspects of the deal have to be brought into any personal aspects of the deal. The game is a business first and foremost and any GM is going to do what is best for the franchise first with very few exceptions going the other way. There was no room for Lubo after we fell on our face and received the second overall pick. He was in our plans when the season began, but we couldn't afford to keep him after that terrible year, there was just no way. It was nothing personal. It was unfortunate for Lubo, but there was no choice to it. Stoll and Greene was fair compensation and helped the rebuild.

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01-10-2011, 11:57 AM
  #93
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Of course it is, but situations change and the business of sports sucks for people sometimes. Was McLean happy with Lou saying that he was there for the long haul and then fired 2 days before Christmas? Was that a **** move by Lou, sure, but **** happens and sometimes you have to make changes.

Being an NHL GM isn't designed to make friends. Dean probably had every intention of keeping Lubo for the long haul when he presented the contract extension to Lubo. **** happened during the season that was not expected, both with the team and with Lubo, and Dean had the chance to pickup 2 valuable players for a player that he previously had long term plans with. He did with Lubo what most wanted done with Cammy, get maximum value for a player that is no longer in the long term plans.

So, you are okay with Dean and Murray finishing their contracts? What if the Kings implode in the second half and finish in the bottom 5 of the NHL. You want him around 2 more years since he signed an extension this past off season?
Nah, if the Kings don't make the playoffs this season or any subsequent season, guys like Herby and JT would fire Lombardi at the drop of a hat.

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01-10-2011, 11:59 AM
  #94
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So, you are okay with Dean and Murray finishing their contracts? What if the Kings implode in the second half and finish in the bottom 5 of the NHL. You want him around 2 more years since he signed an extension this past off season?
No, if PA died today and left me the LA Kings in his will, my first calls would be to let both know they have been relieved of their duties.

But I have never come out and told people I am looking for loyal players with LA Kings tattoos on their butts like Lombardi did.

Lubomir Visnovsky proved that DL sees players as mercenaries, which is totally fine, I would even go as far as saying that is the way things should be in pro sports.

Like I said, nothing illegal with that he did. I would just prefer if he would either shutup about loyalty or have a more Bill Belichek approach where he admits players are assets and we will win with whoever we have.

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01-10-2011, 12:01 PM
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Nah, if the Kings don't make the playoffs this season or any subsequent season, guys like Herby and JT would fire Lombardi at the drop of a hat.
And you would keep him here forever.

Has DL ever done wrong in your eyes?

You and people like Tad call me Mr. Negative, has Lombardi ever done anything wrong besides "Waiting to long to trade Cammalleri"?

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01-10-2011, 12:06 PM
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You are dealing with absolutes too much. Just because it worked out that way with Visnovsky doesn't mean that Dean sees all players as "mercenaries" and doesn't care about them. Players fall out of team plans all the time, and others that remain in their plans and show their loyalty are cared for. That's just how the game, and the world, works. You are taking too much of a personal stance on the issue.

I think you are misinterpreting Dean's words about the whole tattooing business. He isn't Hitler, and isn't looking for supreme loyalty or for any player to give their lives to the club. He is just looking for professional attitudes and work ethics. He doesn't care if the player has Red Wings memorabilia in their home, he just cares that the guy goes out there, skates as hard as he can, sticks up for his teammates, and does everything it takes to win.

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01-10-2011, 12:09 PM
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Much appreciated Tonelli. It was exciting to break and to bring some much needed good news to Kings fans.

Now, if I can only get a trade rumor right!
Now if you can only get the "right trade" rumor right!

Don't take it personal Barry, message board posters are a fickle lot. We all love you, in a black sheep cousin kind of way!

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I am very happy tonight that the Kings committed to JJ and JJ committed to the Kings. I give Lombardi credit for locking up his 1B defenseman for a very very long time at a fair deal for both parties involved. This is the type of deal and term other teams have been giving their young star players and it's nice to see the Kings follow suit.

I don't know where you get this idea that I think everything the guy does is awful. I have said before he has made many nice deals and later round draft picks. It's not like I think he can do no right.
Don't go brown nosing on me now!

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Anyways, can now go ahead and order the Johnson jersey, wanted to get it awhile ago but always had the feeling my heart was going to be broken like with Visnovsky and Cammalleri.
I've got a cheap O'Sullivan jersey. Any takers? Actually, I'm just waiting for Loktionov to make the team so I can have the name plate replaced. My luck, he'll get traded too.

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Great deal. Jack has earned it. He was awful when he first came here but really turned it on last season and has been solid again this year. It's good to know he will continue to improve while in a Kings uniform rather than turn into another Larry Murphy. These types of deal are the biggest difference between old Kings teams and the current King team and management/ownership.
Gawd, I hope so!

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01-10-2011, 12:19 PM
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As much as I would like to give Dean a boatload of credit for this, I would have to say the lion's share of the credit must go to Johnson. In the last negotiation he realized that he hadn't been "all that" just yet and took a two year deal to prove something.

He pretty much has proven that he can be a very solid top pairing guy that with experience and better reads should only get better. Now he commits for 7 years at what will likely be a discount in terms of cap hit by the time year 2 or 3 of the deal rolls around. Nice job Jack.
That is SO true.

There is also something vastly refreshing about doing it on his own without an agent. I wonder if agents make it far more difficult at times (see Agents, Ilya Kovalchuk's) By doing it himself, he saved that 10% fee, and his contract is very much like a 33MM contract an agent could have obtained for him.


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01-10-2011, 12:22 PM
  #99
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For someone who likes to talk about player loyalty and tattoo's on butt's the Visnovsky trade was in extremely poor taste, no idea how anyone can say otherwise.

A guy signs long term at a discount giving up UFA in the process, and less than a year later you ship him off to Edmonton, nothing against Edmonton but it's widely considered the NHL's version of Sibera amongst the players.

If Lombardi moves Johnson anytime in the next 2-3 years he will probably have a hard time signing anyone long term without a NTC clause.
I thought it was tacky at the time but I also realize that he was doing what is best for the team AND if I'm not mistaken, AEG asked him to cut salary that summer because they were looking to sell a portion of the team. Lets make sure we get all the facts before we string up Lombardi.

How would you feel it is a bad move if Lombardi asked Ryan Smyth to waive his NTC again so he could move him?

Don't kid yourself. As long as the Kings are winning, they'll have no problem signing players.

EDIT: I'm curious, how you would feel if DL asked Ryan Smyth to waive his NTC again so he could add say... Zach Parise?


Last edited by Buddy The Elf: 01-10-2011 at 12:31 PM.
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01-10-2011, 12:27 PM
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DIEHARD the King fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Doughty's been a better player this season, too.
um, err, ahh, NO. He hasnt, and no numbers nor statisical analysis you show me will make me feel differently. I watch every game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... All this says to me is "I'm biased" because you literally haven't the first clue of what either player did or does now to commit to their jobs of playing hockey for a living. I don't like the practice of making up stuff to discredit players, especially those who are looking to re-up with the team for a few years or more.
JJ's work ethic in the gym and for conditioning purposes is renowned in the locker room. DD has clearly lost that quick step of last season, and is playing himself into better shape. I don't like the practice of assuming people don't know what they are talking about merely because you don't know what is common knowledge amongst and around the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Again, I don't profess to know what goes on in their respective lives away from the games. I'm saying that Doughty has been the better player, this season as well as before this season. The gap between the two isn't as much right now as it once was, but it is still clear who is better.
Right, and others may so don't assume before knowing that others don't know more.
And no matter how many times you say it, it won't become true. DD08 has NOT been better than JJ THIS YEAR!


Last edited by DIEHARD the King fan: 01-10-2011 at 01:04 PM.
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