HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Your team's all-time draft bust lineup

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2011, 09:38 PM
  #1
Habsfan18
Registered User
 
Habsfan18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,253
vCash: 500
Your team's all-time draft bust lineup

Let's see what you got.

Habs (I stuck with post '78 years except for 1 player):

Terry Ryan (8) - Doug Wickenheiser (1) - Dan Geoffrion (8)
Mark Pederson (15) - Alfie Turcotte (17) - Jose Charbonneau (12)
Marcel Hossa (16) - Matt Higgins (18) - Lindsay Vallis (13)
Alain Heroux (19) - Eric Chouinard (16) - Jason Ward (11)

Eric Charron (20) - Brent Bilodeau (17)
David Wilkie (20) - David Fischer (20)
Jocelyn Gauvreau (31) - Tomas Linhart (45)

Ray Martyniuk (5)
Jason Missiaen (116)


Last edited by Habsfan18: 01-10-2011 at 05:14 PM. Reason: added draft positions
Habsfan18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 07:56 AM
  #2
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
For Montreal Robin Sadler has to be in there somewhere. We had a string of 10 first round picks who were busts. Between Shayne Corson in 1984 until Saku Koivu in 1993. Ouch! That is hard to believe

FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 09:15 AM
  #3
cynicism
Registered User
 
cynicism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,540
vCash: 500
Leafs

Goal:
Eric Fichaud
Mikael Tellqvist
Justin Pogge

Defense:
Drake Berehowsky-Gary Nylund (I know these 2 had long careers, but they're supposed to be a franchise defenceman, not a journeyman)
Jeff Ware-Steve Bankroft
Jim Benning-Pierre Hedin

Forwards:
Zedenek Nedved-Luca Cereda-Landon Wilson
Scott Pearson-Brandon Convery-Rob Pearson
Gary Leeman-Kyle Wellwood-Peter Ihnacak
Jarko Immonen-Jeff Farkas-Jiri Tlusty (too soon?)

The 1999 draft is just ....

cynicism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 10:47 AM
  #4
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,033
vCash: 500
I'll do the Buffalo Sabres, trying to decide on which players to choose based on a combination of draft position and career accomplishment. Draft position is in brackets after each players name:

Barrett Heisten (20) - Marek Zagrapan (13) - Joel Savage (13)
Moris Titanic (12) - Artem Kryukov (15) - Jiri Dudacek (17)
Jozef Cierny (35) - Mike Anderson (26) - Mike Moller (41)
Doug Trapp (39) - Ron Areshenkoff (32) - Normand Lacombe (10)

David Cooper (11) - Jens Johansson (30)
Shawn Anderson (5) - Brad Miller (22)
Greg Brown (26) - Denis Tsygurov (38)

Mika Noronen (21)
Randy Ireland (82)

It may seem unfair to list someone like Dudacek as a bust since he played his whole career in Europe, but if you spend a first round pick on someone who never plays a game for your club, then he's a bust as far as your team is concerned.

I was tempted to put Dennis Persson on there, but he's only 22.

The best player on that team would be Normand Lacombe (over 300 games and a Cup with Edmonton), but there weren't a lot of RWs to choose from and you'd expect more from a #10 overall in a strong draft year.

The top line is just sad. Three first-rounders combining for a total of 13 NHL games. Buffalo had the same odds as Pittsburgh going into the 2005 draft. They get #1 and Crosby, Sabres get #13 and Zagrapan

reckoning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 12:18 PM
  #5
DaveG
Global Moderator
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: United States
Posts: 38,583
vCash: 50
Awards:
Canes era only:
Brad DeFauw (28) - Philippe Paradis (27) - Jeff Heerema (11)
Tomas Kurka (32) - Brett Lysak (47) - Francis Lessard (80)
Kevin Estrada (91) - Joe Barnes (64) - Harrison Reed (93)
Ryan Murphy (113) - Justin McCrae (102) - Bobby Hughes (123)

Igor Knyazev (15) - Nikos Tselios (22)
Danny Richmond (31) - Brad Fast (84)
Kevin Holdridge (70) - Jesse Lane (91)

Justin Peters (38) - although Pete is the current backup so he has a shot at breaking the bust label
Chris Madden (97)

I tried to avoid putting players on here that simply had careers seriously detoured if not ended by injury, so no Hagemo or Borer. I still think Borer could be a viable depth player in the NHL anyway. And yeah, I know jumping to big time conclusions on Paradis. Not too many draft picks to select from though and he's not looking all that great as is. Will be amazed if he's ever more then a 3rd or 4th line role player.

Canes/Whalers combined drafts:
Chris Govedaris (11) - Robert Petrovicky (9) - Jeff Heerema (11)
Brad DeFauw (28) - David Jensen (20) - Mark Greig (15)
Tomas Kurka (32) - Michel Galarneau (29) - Ray Allison (18)
Trevor Wasyluk (34) - Brett Lysak (48) - Andrei Petrunin (61)

Fred Arthur (8) - Martin Hamrlik (31)
Igor Knyazev (15) - Nikos Tselios (22)
Danny Richmond (31) - Marc LaForge (32)

Mark Lenarduzzi (57)
Chris Madden (97)


Last edited by DaveG: 01-09-2011 at 12:39 PM.
DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 01:58 PM
  #6
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
Leafs

Goal:
Eric Fichaud
Mikael Tellqvist
Justin Pogge

Defense:
Drake Berehowsky-Gary Nylund (I know these 2 had long careers, but they're supposed to be a franchise defenceman, not a journeyman)
Jeff Ware-Steve Bankroft
Jim Benning-Pierre Hedin

Forwards:
Zedenek Nedved-Luca Cereda-Landon Wilson
Scott Pearson-Brandon Convery-Rob Pearson
Gary Leeman-Kyle Wellwood-Peter Ihnacak
Jarko Immonen-Jeff Farkas-Jiri Tlusty (too soon?)

The 1999 draft is just ....
Wouldnt Potvin fit? I know he isnt your typical bust but he never reached the level he was predicted to reach.

Tellquist is not really fair either. He just had that magical season in '01(?) and everyone hyped him. He is still a pretty solid goalie but just not a #1 in the NHL.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 03:44 PM
  #7
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Wouldnt Potvin fit? I know he isnt your typical bust but he never reached the level he was predicted to reach.

Tellquist is not really fair either. He just had that magical season in '01(?) and everyone hyped him. He is still a pretty solid goalie but just not a #1 in the NHL.
How can a goalie who started in 635 career NHL games be considered a bust?

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 05:24 PM
  #8
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
How can a goalie who started in 635 career NHL games be considered a bust?
Because he never reached his potential. Stefan played 450+ games and is cosidered a bust. Daigle played 600+ and is definitly a bust. Lawton played 500 games.

Having him as a starter just meant he had a lot of chances and that he sometimes was able to shine with good solid goaltending but he is a bust. He also lived on that stellar season in '93.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 06:07 PM
  #9
mco543
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 284
vCash: 500
Al Montoya is a bust, J-F Damphousse is a bust, Patrick DesRochers and Mathieu Chouinard are busts. Felix Potvin is not. I don't think someone who was drafted in the 2nd round could be considered as such. He's the 2nd best goalie of the draft behind Brodeur and he was substantially better IMO than Kidd. If you want a goalie from that draft who was a "bust" then Kidd is it.

mco543 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 06:22 PM
  #10
brianscot
Registered User
 
brianscot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 1,413
vCash: 500
Here's one take on Boston. All first or second round picks.


Rob Cimetta 18 Zach Hamill 8 Shayne Stevenson 17
Ron Bloom 16 Clayton Pachal 16 Dave Pasin 19
Don Larway 18 Barry Smith 32 Martin Samuelsson 27
Petr Kalus 34 Ray Podloski 34 Henry Kuster 45


Ron Plumb 9 Ron Jones 4
Jonathan Aitken 8 Lars Jonsson 7
Matt Lashoff 22 Graeme Nicholson 35

Evgeni Ryabchilov 21
Hannu Toivonen 29

For a franchise that has skated Shore, Orr, and Bourque, the defense is especially brutal.

brianscot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 06:46 PM
  #11
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Because he never reached his potential. Stefan played 450+ games and is cosidered a bust. Daigle played 600+ and is definitly a bust. Lawton played 500 games.

Having him as a starter just meant he had a lot of chances and that he sometimes was able to shine with good solid goaltending but he is a bust. He also lived on that stellar season in '93.
635 games fora goalie is close to 900 plus games for a position player maybe a 1000.

Look I'm not a huge Potvin fan but there is a difference between a bust and a disappointment.

Heck he even went 35-37 in the playoff, not great but hardly a bust.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 08:58 PM
  #12
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,837
vCash: 500
Felix Potvin a bust? What on Earth?

Okay, the guy kind of flamed out after back to back trips to the Conference Finals at a young age. But he still made back to back trips to the Conference Finals as a starting goaltender.

Also played in 2 All Star Games.

Definitely not a bust.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 08:59 PM
  #13
Habsfan18
Registered User
 
Habsfan18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
Gary Leeman
I don't really think we can call Gary Leeman a bust. 466 points in 667 games as a 2nd rounder. Seasons of 52, 61, 75, and 95 points.

Habsfan18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 09:16 PM
  #14
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,837
vCash: 500
My attempt at a NJ Devils all-bust team:

Jeff Christian (23) - Rocky Trottier (8) - Chris Gotziaman (29)
Vadim Sharifijanov (25) - Neil Brady (3) - Nathan Perrott (44)
Wes Mason (38) - Adrian Foster (28) - Teemu Laine (39)
Stanislav Gron (38) - Jason Miller (18) - Donevan Hextall (33)

Shawn Evans (24) - Todd Copeland (24) - total busts
Corey Foster (12) - Josh DeWolf (41) - total busts
Lance Ward (10) - Craig Wolanin (3) - both played some NHL games, but busts based on where they were selected

Jean-Francois Damphousse (24)
Ari Ahonen (27)

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 09:22 PM
  #15
Nakawick
Minty Fresh
 
Nakawick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Range
Posts: 6,609
vCash: 70000
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
Leafs

Goal:
Eric Fichaud
Mikael Tellqvist
Justin Pogge

Defense:
Drake Berehowsky-Gary Nylund (I know these 2 had long careers, but they're supposed to be a franchise defenceman, not a journeyman)
Jeff Ware-Steve Bankroft
Jim Benning-Pierre Hedin

Forwards:
Zedenek Nedved-Luca Cereda-Landon Wilson
Scott Pearson-Brandon Convery-Rob Pearson
Gary Leeman-Kyle Wellwood-Peter Ihnacak
Jarko Immonen-Jeff Farkas-Jiri Tlusty (too soon?)

The 1999 draft is just ....
Leeman was drafted in the 2nd round and is a 50 goal scorer. I would have figured he was one of the best leafs ever.

Nakawick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 09:26 PM
  #16
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Felix Potvin a bust? What on Earth?

Okay, the guy kind of flamed out after back to back trips to the Conference Finals at a young age. But he still made back to back trips to the Conference Finals as a starting goaltender.

Also played in 2 All Star Games.

Definitely not a bust.
We were talking about busts for your team and Potvin was definitly a bust for Toronto actually he didnt recover until he was traded to LA. Thats my reasoning for him being a bust atleast compared to a 3rd round drafted goalie who had a hot season once and got hyped by the media.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 11:29 PM
  #17
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,028
vCash: 500
Potvin a bust? My God... The guy was drafted 31st overall. He greatly exceeded expectations.

From 1969-2001, 96 players were drafted in positions 30-32. Potvin's career was the 8th best out of all of them:

Carlyle, Greshner, McKegney, Ozolinsh, Pandolfo, Erixon and Williams were better. I would give him and Mark Hardy a draw.

next-best guys: Patrice Brisebois, Eric Weinrich, Bob Kelly, Pat Hickey, John Tucker, Tony Hrkac, Jim Carey, Russ Anderson, and Lindy Ruff. other than that, you're pretty much dealing with depth players and guys who didn't make it.

by my estimation, the median picks from these 96 are guys like Russ Romaniuk, Bernie Lukowich, Barry Richter, Jeff Taffe, Stephen Peat, Barry Smith, and Kent Carlson.

How is that a bust?

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 11:43 PM
  #18
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Potvin a bust? My God... The guy was drafted 31st overall. He greatly exceeded expectations.

From 1969-2001, 96 players were drafted in positions 30-32. Potvin's career was the 8th best out of all of them:

Carlyle, Greshner, McKegney, Ozolinsh, Pandolfo, Erixon and Williams were better. I would give him and Mark Hardy a draw.

next-best guys: Patrice Brisebois, Eric Weinrich, Bob Kelly, Pat Hickey, John Tucker, Tony Hrkac, Jim Carey, Russ Anderson, and Lindy Ruff. other than that, you're pretty much dealing with depth players and guys who didn't make it.

by my estimation, the median picks from these 96 are guys like Russ Romaniuk, Bernie Lukowich, Barry Richter, Jeff Taffe, Stephen Peat, Barry Smith, and Kent Carlson.

How is that a bust?
You are taking into accout for his whole career? Then no he wasnt exactly a bust I agree but he was a bust for Toronto after his first two (excellent) seasons. I thought we were talking about busts for one team and he played a majority of his career in Toronto.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2011, 12:01 AM
  #19
Maupin Fan
Hot Air
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianscot View Post
Here's one take on Boston. All first or second round picks.


Rob Cimetta 18 Zach Hamill 8 Shayne Stevenson 17
Ron Bloom 16 Clayton Pachal 16 Dave Pasin 19
Don Larway 18 Barry Smith 32 Martin Samuelsson 27
Petr Kalus 34 Ray Podloski 34 Henry Kuster 45


Ron Plumb 9 Ron Jones 4
Jonathan Aitken 8 Lars Jonsson 7
Matt Lashoff 22 Graeme Nicholson 35

Evgeni Ryabchilov 21
Hannu Toivonen 29

For a franchise that has skated Shore, Orr, and Bourque, the defense is especially brutal.
Zach Hamill?? The kid is barely 22.

Maupin Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2011, 04:44 AM
  #20
brianscot
Registered User
 
brianscot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 1,413
vCash: 500
Fair or not, when a player is drafted 8th overall and leads the WHL in scoring, the expectations are high

Three plus years into his pro career, Hamill has played exactly one game in Boston.

While his production in the AHL keeps improving, it's telling that when Marc Savard went down last year and couldn't start this year, by all accounts, Hamill was never strongly considered for recall.

In a NESN interview this fall Peter Chiarelli reported that Hamill is improving, but the problem area remains constant --- he isn't physically strong enough to retain or gain the puck in high traffic areas --- a must for playmaking centers.

Hamill does have 21 assists this year in Providence, but only 2 goals in 34 games. His entry deal (with a potential 1.3 million dollar cap hit) is over after this season.

brianscot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2011, 07:57 AM
  #21
ricky0034
Registered User
 
ricky0034's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,507
vCash: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
You are taking into accout for his whole career? Then no he wasnt exactly a bust I agree but he was a bust for Toronto after his first two (excellent) seasons. I thought we were talking about busts for one team and he played a majority of his career in Toronto.
two excellent years is still more than enough to make a 31st overall pick not a "bust"

plus he still had some good years after that in Toronto too just not as good

ricky0034 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2011, 09:53 AM
  #22
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
two excellent years is still more than enough to make a 31st overall pick not a "bust"

plus he still had some good years after that in Toronto too just not as good
precisely.

In 1993 he was the league's 2nd or 3rd-best goalie.

In 1994 he wasn't as great but had a sv% that was 9th (this is out of 39 goalies with what I consider to be the benchmark for consideration, 1500 min)

He was decent in 1995, above average at least, and just a couple points out of the top-10 in sv%.

In 1996 the Leafs' defense was a disaster and the team slumped badly midseason, but he still came 9th in the league in sv% out of 39.

In 1997 the Leafs were a disaster that thought they could retool instead of rebuild, and he set a league record for shots faced. His .908 sv% was 14th out of 40 and was amazing considering the circumstance.

In 1998 he had a shaky season, it was what led to the Cujo signing. But even still, his .906 sv% was above the league average and was 15th out of 34.

1999 shouldn't really count for anything as Potvin was treated badly and really just quietly bided his time waiting for an inevitable trade.

Actually, how remarkably consistent was the guy? From 1993 to 1998, his sv% stayed between .906 and .910. How many other goalies have stayed within 4 points for six full seasons? I'm guessing none.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2011, 10:11 AM
  #23
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Actually, how remarkably consistent was the guy? From 1993 to 1998, his sv% stayed between .906 and .910. How many other goalies have stayed within 4 points for six full seasons? I'm guessing none.
What does this prove?

By the way, my point from the beginning was that I see Potvin as a bigger bust than Tellquist.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2011, 10:38 AM
  #24
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
What does this prove?

By the way, my point from the beginning was that I see Potvin as a bigger bust than Tellquist.
Tellquist? hahahaha

Potvin was a great young goalie who ended up getting shell shocked on a bad team later on in Toronto and then treated like crap. If his circumstances had been different then who knows how good he could have been.

His only fault to me was he was a goalie who didn't improve his game technically, so he wasn't as good once he got older and couldn't rely on the cat like reflexes that were his name sake.

But he was a damn good goalie when he was on.

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2011, 12:10 PM
  #25
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
What does this prove?

By the way, my point from the beginning was that I see Potvin as a bigger bust than Tellquist.
it could be nothing more than an interesting statistical anomaly.

As for Tellqvist, he was a 70th pick, so same thing for him - even making the NHL as a backup for a few seasons makes him a good selection, better than most.

Out of 96 players selected 69th-71st in teh same period discussed last night, Tellqvist is roughly 20th-best.

Kurri, Blake, Anderson are no-brainers.

Meloche, Cole, Souray, Ruskowski, Reichel, Kravchuk, Prospal would all be lower-level ATD picks (MLD-AA, #800-1500)

Then there are Afinogenov, Essensa, Hagman, Sullivan - decent contributing NHLers.

Bob Miller, Dave Hudson, Lou Franceschetti, Arron Asham, Josef Melichar, Ronnie Stern, Milan Hnilicka, Kevin McClelland, Joe Sacco, Jeff Nielsen, Jonathan Sim are the next-best tier here, and Telly fits in somewhere near the bottom of these guys, as a 114-game NHL goalie.

Either way, he's not a bust at all. The median result for a 69th-71st pick is a player who tops out as an ECHLer.

As for which one is a bigger bust, the correct answer is neither, since neither is a bust, but as for who outperformed the expectations of their draft slot by a higher degree, I'd go with Potvin.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.