HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Weise vs. Grachev

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2011, 02:32 PM
  #1
Rangers44*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 993
vCash: 500
Weise vs. Grachev

Not saying that it should be one or the other, but despite the AHL numbers, I thought Grachev looked much better in NHL. Much more noticeable, faster, bigger, huge hits. Neither will likely be much more than 3rd liners in NHL. Other than fighting, I think Grachev is better in NHL. And I think it is obvious that Grachev is not progressing much in AHL.

Rangers44* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 02:49 PM
  #2
free0717
Registered User
 
free0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 2,145
vCash: 500
Grachev is starting to come around. I think Evgeny needs to be given major minutes no matter what. Penalty Kill, first team PP and first line minutes.
Thats what will develop him. Grachev will not be NHL ready next year. I believe 2012-13 will be his coming out year. In the meantime he needs major minutes @ the AHL leve.

Wiese is the prototypical 3rd or 4th line player. Can bang and bring energy. Grachev can do that to but needs to spend time in the AHL playing major minutes.
Wiese will never be more than a 3rd liner.

Grachev can become a top six power forward. We just need to be patient

free0717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 02:55 PM
  #3
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
Can Grachev beat people up? Weiss appears to be here to fulfill a role... no?

__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 03:13 PM
  #4
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Can Grachev beat people up? Weiss appears to be here to fulfill a role... no?
Prust is a better middleweight, and a better hockey player imho.

right now Grachev needs more time in the AHL, he'll be an nhler though, i have no doubts about that.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 03:24 PM
  #5
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Prust is a better middleweight, and a better hockey player imho.

right now Grachev needs more time in the AHL, he'll be an nhler though, i have no doubts about that.
Prust is 4-5 years older than Weise. Every player starts somewhere. If Weise becomes Prust 2.0 I would be ecstatic and sometimes it just takes time.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 03:33 PM
  #6
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Grachev looks like he could be a late bloomer, like Boyle. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

Weise fills a role and he doesn't back down. He's only 22.

Grachev still has potential. The only question is, are the Rangers going to wait.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 03:40 PM
  #7
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Prust is 4-5 years older than Weise. Every player starts somewhere. If Weise becomes Prust 2.0 I would be ecstatic and sometimes it just takes time.
fair enough. havent seen anything from Weise yet that makes me believe thats possible...but who knows? prust is such a solid player, absolutely love the kid.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 03:43 PM
  #8
SERE 24
LGR
 
SERE 24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 9,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Grachev looks like he could be a late bloomer, like Boyle. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

Weise fills a role and he doesn't back down. He's only 22.

Grachev still has potential. The only question is, are the Rangers going to wait.
Grachev is 20...

SERE 24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 03:46 PM
  #9
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
fair enough. havent seen anything from Weise yet that makes me believe thats possible...but who knows? prust is such a solid player, absolutely love the kid.
Prust was never all that impressive with Calgary either. At 25 he just started to pop out of his shell and become the player he is now.

Weise seems to be a pretty good scrapper already though at 22. Carcillo and Ott are considered very good middle-weights themselves.

I think his North-South style along with his size and attitude will make him a keeper for a while in NYC. To me, he would fit in very well with Prust and Boyle on a "true" 4th line for the playoffs but I doubt he gets that opportunity once everyone is healthy.

If anything I see Weise as having more offensive potential than Prust with a little less fighting skill, however Weise is at least 2 inches taller and quite a bit heavier than Prust. So who knows. He has a great player to watch day-in and day-out though in Brandon to see how he needs to play in order to carve out a niche in the NHL.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 04:10 PM
  #10
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
 
Kel Varnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Not saying that it should be one or the other, but despite the AHL numbers, I thought Grachev looked much better in NHL. Much more noticeable, faster, bigger, huge hits. Neither will likely be much more than 3rd liners in NHL. Other than fighting, I think Grachev is better in NHL. And I think it is obvious that Grachev is not progressing much in AHL.
How quickly short-term results influence people's beliefs

Grachev has top six potential. Weise probably not.

Kel Varnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 04:34 PM
  #11
Jarkko Immonen
#42 Artem Anisimov
 
Jarkko Immonen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 3,136
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Jarkko Immonen
Grachev has absolutely been coming around in the last few weeks in Hartford. He's getting a lot more minutes in a lot of different roles as well. Must be patient with him.

Jarkko Immonen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 05:42 PM
  #12
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,755
vCash: 500
IMO Grachev has not really ever displayed a power forwards mentality. I don't see a lot of sandpaper there. He certainly isn't dropping the gloves and on the few occasions I watched him last year with Hartford he wasn't physically involved at all. An indicator of that may be his very low pm's.

Personally I like what I've seen from Weise a lot more and between his and Grachev's NHL games so far I prefer Weise. Not arguing that Grachev doesn't have higher upside but IMO he needs to push himself harder.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 05:43 PM
  #13
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
IMO Grachev has not really ever displayed a power forwards mentality. I don't see a lot of sandpaper there. He certainly isn't dropping the gloves and on the few occasions I watched him last year with Hartford he wasn't physically involved at all. One could look at his pm's and wonder how involved he is at all.

Personally I like what I've seen from Weise a lot more and between his and Grachev's NHL games so far I prefer Weise. Not arguing that Grachev doesn't have higher upside but IMO he needs to push himself harder.
hes not really a power forward in the traditional sense. hes got the body for it though, but hes more of a sniper and a breakaway kinda guy. hes got outstanding speed for his size...

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 05:45 PM
  #14
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
hes not really a power forward in the traditional sense. hes got the body for it though, but hes more of a sniper and a breakaway kinda guy. hes got outstanding speed for his size...
I still think he can be a Franzen type of player in the NHL. All he has to do is lean on people and he will be fine. When he was up in the NHL he was doing that, so I think he has it in his repertoire.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 05:48 PM
  #15
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
hes not really a power forward in the traditional sense. hes got the body for it though, but hes more of a sniper and a breakaway kinda guy. hes got outstanding speed for his size...
So far though his numbers--apart from the one season in the OHL--have been very disappointing. He seems to me to be more than one season away from any kind of real impact and FWIW his game strikes me a bit like Marcel Hossa. Would rather he turn out more like Marian Hossa but I wouldn't hold my breath. Seriously a player to compare him to at least experience wise is Anisimov who also played in the AHL at 19 but busted right out in his second season. No sign of that yet from Grachev.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 07:17 PM
  #16
SlingshotVv
nerdy wrist-locks
 
SlingshotVv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Grachev is 20...
regardless how i feel about grachev's development, i responded here to address this constant refrain of [player] is [under 25], that we've seen used a million times to describe players in the process of developing into borderline NHLers.

the NHL is not the veteran driven league it was pre-lockout. the top players in the world are all in their early to mid 20's. the majority of sure-fire, not-going-to-drop first liners in the NHL currently were making their waves by 20. seriously legit top 6's that will be there for their careers are all cracking the NHL by 20 (i'm excluding the 1 or 2 year top 6 players that got there due to being on inferior teams).

saying relax Grachev is only 20, is like saying, relax, don't expect more from the kid than bottom 6 at very best... or hope for a development miracle.

SlingshotVv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 07:48 PM
  #17
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
regardless how i feel about grachev's development, i responded here to address this constant refrain of [player] is [under 25], that we've seen used a million times to describe players in the process of developing into borderline NHLers.

the NHL is not the veteran driven league it was pre-lockout. the top players in the world are all in their early to mid 20's. the majority of sure-fire, not-going-to-drop first liners in the NHL currently were making their waves by 20. seriously legit top 6's that will be there for their careers are all cracking the NHL by 20 (i'm excluding the 1 or 2 year top 6 players that got there due to being on inferior teams).

saying relax Grachev is only 20, is like saying, relax, don't expect more from the kid than bottom 6 at very best... or hope for a development miracle.
Good point.. But, Grachev has the size and skills that are very rare. He just needs some time to develop. It could happen when he is 23/24 years old. The Rangers need to be patient and just let him him develop. Why rush him? This team is loaded at the forward position right now. Let Grachev develop behind the barn without the pressure.

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 08:11 PM
  #18
BroadwayBlues
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 8,274
vCash: 500
I said a awhile back Grachev will either be a late bloomer or bust and got jumped on.

I honestly don't expect much from him. Don't care if he's only 20. Like what SlingshotVv said this the NHL. Plenty of 20 y/o showing what they can do at the highest level.

Kind of reminds me with Knick fans saying 'oh Gallo is only 22. give him a chance. he's so young'. In both sports you can tell who's going to be great early. Regardless of age.
I don't see it with either player.

BroadwayBlues is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2011, 08:20 PM
  #19
Rangers44*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 993
vCash: 500
Even if Grachev doesn't develop, he is already a pretty effective 4th liner. If he can kill penalties that would be great.


Last edited by Rangers44*: 01-09-2011 at 10:48 AM.
Rangers44* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 07:54 AM
  #20
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Good point.. But, Grachev has the size and skills that are very rare. He just needs some time to develop. It could happen when he is 23/24 years old. The Rangers need to be patient and just let him him develop. Why rush him? This team is loaded at the forward position right now. Let Grachev develop behind the barn without the pressure.
Altogether possible that at 23/24 Grachev starts looking like a top 6 NHL forward. A question though is how long are the Rangers willing to wait?--and I'm kind of thinking they'll have moved him if it takes another 3/4 years. Grachev did not look terrible in his brief stint with the Rangers but neither has Weise IMO. Grachev nearly scored a couple of times but so has Weise and Weise is a lot more ready for a bottom 6 role in the NHL which is basically where you'd want to slot him than Grachev is for a top 6 role in the NHL which is where you'd want to project him. In that respect Weise is closer to an NHL job and Weise's AHL numbers are much better than Grachev and Weise has a lot more grit in his game.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 09:14 AM
  #21
Blueblood 2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 874
vCash: 500
Sandpaper and grit mean little. On this team it is all about JAM!!

Blueblood 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 09:34 AM
  #22
The Mouth
Registered User
 
The Mouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 857
vCash: 500
I like both. two different players. its hard to judge Weise on 4 minutes of 4th line duty.

Grachev is gonna take awhile. he's gonna take a different route than say some of the rookies we fast tracked to to the big club.

it's all good.

The Mouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 10:20 AM
  #23
Stugots
Kolo, Kolo Kolo!
 
Stugots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 6,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
regardless how i feel about grachev's development, i responded here to address this constant refrain of [player] is [under 25], that we've seen used a million times to describe players in the process of developing into borderline NHLers.

the NHL is not the veteran driven league it was pre-lockout. the top players in the world are all in their early to mid 20's. the majority of sure-fire, not-going-to-drop first liners in the NHL currently were making their waves by 20. seriously legit top 6's that will be there for their careers are all cracking the NHL by 20 (i'm excluding the 1 or 2 year top 6 players that got there due to being on inferior teams).

saying relax Grachev is only 20, is like saying, relax, don't expect more from the kid than bottom 6 at very best... or hope for a development miracle.
Everyone is different. What about Dubinsky? Dude had 40 points his first 3 seasons and now at age 24 will come close to 70.

Stugots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 12:22 PM
  #24
RagsToRichards
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 26
vCash: 500
i think Grachev was brought up too early.. one 80 point season int he NHL (yeah thats good) but for me to prove its legit, do it again... then if he does.. bring him to the AHL.. he shoulda stayed one more year in juniors, then come up to the AHL this year... only me..

RagsToRichards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2011, 01:51 PM
  #25
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
regardless how i feel about grachev's development, i responded here to address this constant refrain of [player] is [under 25], that we've seen used a million times to describe players in the process of developing into borderline NHLers.

the NHL is not the veteran driven league it was pre-lockout. the top players in the world are all in their early to mid 20's. the majority of sure-fire, not-going-to-drop first liners in the NHL currently were making their waves by 20. seriously legit top 6's that will be there for their careers are all cracking the NHL by 20 (i'm excluding the 1 or 2 year top 6 players that got there due to being on inferior teams).

saying relax Grachev is only 20, is like saying, relax, don't expect more from the kid than bottom 6 at very best... or hope for a development miracle.
Every player is different. Tell me there wasn't a lot of doubt that Ryan Kesler was gonna pan out to be a top 6 forward for his first few years. Even Dubinsky is a pretty good example of someone I'm sure a lot of us started to wonder about, and now he's starting to show potential to be a 30-30 guy and has solidified himself into the top 6.

Grachev doesn't project to be a Sedin, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, etc. I think his absolute ceiling is a 70 point forward. His realistic ceiling is 50-60 points a year as a solid 2nd line winger. I'm sure there are PLENTY of players in that range that didn't just hop into the league at age 20.

RangerFan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.