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Part XVIII: Phoenix -- Imminence Front

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Old
01-11-2011, 09:07 PM
  #101
Killion
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I added an image of the projected city cashflows.
Thanks.

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01-11-2011, 09:10 PM
  #102
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Thanks.
Hope you like the color red, my friend

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01-11-2011, 09:14 PM
  #103
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LOL. So anyone who doesn't live in Glendale, like I do, shouldn't support the team and just shut up? Nice.
You live in Glendale, what you make of this? The fact that the CoG is basically forking over 500 MILLION dollars, over the next 25 years, and even the most optimistic parking forecasts show them losing tens of millions of dollars by the end of it?

Also, I think what he was saying-and it was actually to your credit living in Glendale, that those who don't live in Glendale will say "The Yotes are worth it", and not worry, because they are not going to be hit with possible future tax hikes, cuts to services, and general less quality of living like those in Glendale would be.

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01-11-2011, 09:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by OthmarAmmann View Post
You mean the last year of Hocking? In that year the city has revenue of $60 mm and debt repayment and interest of $108 mm.
Forgive me, but is that not basically the same thing as what I said? 60-108 = -48; no?

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01-11-2011, 09:33 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
You live in Glendale, what you make of this? The fact that the CoG is basically forking over 500 MILLION dollars, over the next 25 years, and even the most optimistic parking forecasts show them losing tens of millions of dollars by the end of it?

Also, I think what he was saying-and it was actually to your credit living in Glendale, that those who don't live in Glendale will say "The Yotes are worth it", and not worry, because they are not going to be hit with possible future tax hikes, cuts to services, and general less quality of living like those in Glendale would be.

Since the bonds have not been sold yet..... you can't claim something is fact when it isn't.

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01-11-2011, 09:36 PM
  #106
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I took the CoG cost benefit analysis and added debt costs at 7.75%. I also overlayed the parking revenue numbers with the projections from Walker and Hocking.
Please, oh please, tell me that there's some financial experty reason why adding a total column at the end wouldn't really give me the big picture. Because, when I do that, I see CoG losses between $278, 412 (under the 'optimistic' Hocking report) to $139.6 MM (under Walker-stagnant).

Tell me that can't be right, so I can pick my jaw up off the floor...you know, just in case I need it tomorrow.

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01-11-2011, 09:38 PM
  #107
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...and then Thomson comes along and makes Balsille his pool boy!
This is the funniest post! HaHaHaHa

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Old
01-11-2011, 09:46 PM
  #108
Tinalera
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Since the bonds have not been sold yet..... you can't claim something is fact when it isn't.
My apologies.


The "Prospects" of forking over UP to 500 million dollars over the next 25 years- my apologies for using the word "fact" that isn't a fact yet

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01-11-2011, 09:48 PM
  #109
OthmarAmmann
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Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
Please, oh please, tell me that there's some financial experty reason why adding a total column at the end wouldn't really give me the big picture. Because, when I do that, I see CoG losses between $278, 412 (under the 'optimistic' Hocking report) to $139.6 MM (under Walker-stagnant).

Tell me that can't be right, so I can pick my jaw up off the floor...you know, just in case I need it tomorrow.
Well, the last column has -$100 mm due to the debt maturity, but the first column does not include +$100 mm from the cash coming in the door. So basically the cashflow is understated by $100 mm.

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01-11-2011, 09:52 PM
  #110
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Hope you like the color red, my friend
Er, nope, not my favorite color. Insidious.

"How would you like to go to work, and whenever you make a mistake a Red light goes on & 18,000 people start booing?"...
. Jacques Plante

See what I mean?.

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01-11-2011, 09:54 PM
  #111
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Hey guys I wanna buy a 10 plex to get some more rental income. The building costs 750,000. If anyone's interested I'm willing to lease the rights to the parking revenue in exchange for a fee. Uhh, when I looked at the current owners income statement he never charged for parking but I'm sure no one will mind paying a monthly fee for something that they once got for free. Like most of you, I have been following the Phoenix Coyotes situation and think Glendale is doing an amazing job at handling this situation. Since Glendale is willing to pay 58.8% of the cost of the Phoenix Coyotes, I'm willing to do a similar deal if anyone is interested. I'm willing to sell you the rights to rent my future 10 plex' parking lot out to my tenants in exchange for 58% of the cost of the building. This will a 1 time payment, so it won't be that bad. I'm looking for $435,000. Once I receive that money, I will put in an offer to purchase the 10 plex and we can start collecting some revenue!

Well message me if you are interested.

Thanks again!

GO GLENDALE GO!

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01-11-2011, 10:07 PM
  #112
Killion
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Originally Posted by Greaves View Post
Hey guys I wanna buy a 10 plex to get some more rental income. The building costs 750,000. If anyone's interested I'm willing to lease the rights to the parking revenue in exchange for a fee. Uhh, when I looked at the current owners income statement he never charged for parking but I'm sure no one will mind paying a monthly fee for something that they once got for free. Like most of you, I have been following the Phoenix Coyotes situation and think Glendale is doing an amazing job at handling this situation. Since Glendale is willing to pay 58.8% of the cost of the Phoenix Coyotes, I'm willing to do a similar deal if anyone is interested. I'm willing to sell you the rights to rent my future 10 plex' parking lot out to my tenants in exchange for 58% of the cost of the building. This will a 1 time payment, so it won't be that bad. I'm looking for $435,000. Once I receive that money, I will put in an offer to purchase the 10 plex and we can start collecting some revenue!

Well message me if you are interested.

Thanks again!

GO GLENDALE GO!

Sweet.
Im in if you'll sign over the building. I'll top up the tank & provide an additional $315,000 over 5yrs if you'll manage the multiplex for us, then sell it all back to you for a buck sixty six in 2016 if you'd like, or, we can simply continue on with the management agreement. Your choice.


Last edited by Killion: 01-11-2011 at 10:13 PM.
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01-11-2011, 10:25 PM
  #113
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The more I look at this the more I think that Goldwater just might have a case. I wonder if they are waiting to see if and when the bonds are offered before deciding whether to jump in.

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Old
01-11-2011, 10:30 PM
  #114
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You know what would be funny is if MH buys the 125M in bonds! Collects a high interest rate, then they use his own money, give it back to him to buy the Coyotes!

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Old
01-11-2011, 10:41 PM
  #115
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Sweet.
Im in if you'll sign over the building. I'll top up the tank & provide an additional $315,000 over 5yrs if you'll manage the multiplex for us, then sell it all back to you for a buck sixty six in 2016 if you'd like, or, we can simply continue on with the management agreement. Your choice.
Wow I'm simply amazed, not shocked of course, because anyone in the right mind would jump at a chance to participate in this kind of deal! I think I will choose to manage the building for $63,000 per year ($63,000 X 5 = $315,000)! And we will leave the buck sixty six in 2016 or continuation of the management agreement on the table until then!

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Old
01-12-2011, 12:44 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
LOL. So anyone who doesn't live in Glendale, like I do, shouldn't support the team and just shut up? Nice.
Re-read my post. That wasn't what I said at all. Anyone who doesn't live in Glendale - and by extension, isn't a sucker - isn't paying for this boondoggle, but hey, if you want your city to go bankrupt, more power to you.

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01-12-2011, 06:08 AM
  #117
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One thread title I was considering was J. Wellington Wimpy's, "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

I love this idea! J. Wellington Wimpy is the man!

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01-12-2011, 08:18 AM
  #118
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This, from our favourite "Tweetmeister"... who is presumably referring to a recent Winnipeg Free Press article that focuses on the difficulties in the municipal bond market (http://twitter.com/IceEdgeDJ).

Quote:
The Winnipeg Free Press needs to stop toying with the hearts and hockey souls of Winnipeggers.
Coming from someone who spent months toying with the "hearts and hockey souls" of Coyotes fans in Glendale / Phoenix.

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01-12-2011, 08:54 AM
  #119
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This, from our favourite "Tweetmeister"... who is presumably referring to a recent Winnipeg Free Press article that focuses on the difficulties in the municipal bond market (http://twitter.com/IceEdgeDJ).

Coming from someone who spent months toying with the "hearts and hockey souls" of Coyotes fans in Glendale / Phoenix.

I can't remember if DJ was a numbers guy too, of if he just handles the fluffing up pieces, aka PR?


Maybe they'd like to educate the poor souls on how bonds work. It would be so easy to dispel any notion that Glendale would be worse off with this deal with just a few lines of numbers.


(Or was that what Hocking was supposed to do? 9 page report vs 130-ish or so?)

 
Old
01-12-2011, 09:26 AM
  #120
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I can't remember if DJ was a numbers guy too, of if he just handles the fluffing up pieces, aka PR?


Maybe they'd like to educate the poor souls on how bonds work. It would be so easy to dispel any notion that Glendale would be worse off with this deal with just a few lines of numbers.


(Or was that what Hocking was supposed to do? 9 page report vs 130-ish or so?)
I still find it funny that there are a few defenders of the deal that swear up and down that the Hocking report has the real numbers. I'm not saying that size is everything, but it's like comparing a cocktail napkin with a phone book when it comes to hard data and real numbers....

As for Hocking, talk about rose colored glasses and forgotten information. I think the biggest questions is whether they forgot it due to ineptitude or because they chose to selectively omit certain pieces of information...

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01-12-2011, 09:52 AM
  #121
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Sure, size isn't everything. Compare the firms though...

Walker:

http://www.walkerparking.com/firm/

Firm is devoted to parking consultation with 45 years experience. Completed 8,000 parking projects. Largest parking consulting firm in the United States.

TLHocking:

http://www.tlhocking.com/ourapproach.php

Firm specialized in municipal finance and capital markets. Founded in 2001 by an investment banker. A google search of their website for the word "parking" returns one result.

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01-12-2011, 10:08 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by OthmarAmmann View Post
Sure, size isn't everything. Compare the firms though...

Walker:

http://www.walkerparking.com/firm/

Firm is devoted to parking consultation with 45 years experience. Completed 8,000 parking projects. Largest parking consulting firm in the United States.

TLHocking:

http://www.tlhocking.com/ourapproach.php

Firm specialized in municipal finance and capital markets. Founded in 2001 by an investment banker. A google search of their website for the word "parking" returns one result.
This isn't anything new in politics.

As Homer Jay Simpson once said... "Sure, Marge... Everything looks bad if you remember it..."

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01-12-2011, 10:11 AM
  #123
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LOL. So anyone who doesn't live in Glendale, like I do, shouldn't support the team and just shut up? Nice.
Do I care if Atlanta coughs up a billion dollars to keep the Thrashers? No, no, that don't confront me. Oh, but I don't live in Atlanta, so that opinion can be discounted? But if I'm against it, hey I'm standing up for the poor little guy of ATL, so that opinion is valid? Bullpuck-y.

Ich bin Glendaler. Ich bin Arizonan. So those from elsewhere who pretend to care so much about an Arizona municipality issuing bonds to fund the retention of the Coyotes here - you don't approve? Then don't buy the bonds when they come up for sale. That'll show 'em.

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01-12-2011, 10:22 AM
  #124
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So those from elsewhere who pretend to care so much about an Arizona municipality issuing bonds to fund the retention of the Coyotes here
I think you are ready the criticism as some form of tax payer sympathy, and I believe you are off the mark. I won't be so bold as to speak for other posters, but my criticisms are not out of a concern for a resident of Glendale per se. MY coffee will taste the same wether or not Glendale Bankrupts itself.

I don't find it relative to being a fan of the hockey team either. The city has bullishly set an agenda, and is doing anything it can to force that agenda. They are skuing the numbers in order to provide a multi-millionaire with hundreds of millions of dollars. We are commenting on the obsurdity of the activity, and even a Coyote fan, if he or she has business acumen, can look at the figures and admitedly say "Damn... that ain't even close".

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01-12-2011, 10:23 AM
  #125
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reading^ not ready

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