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The biggest "what ifs" In the history of hockey.

View Poll Results: Which players career would have been even greater under "ideal" circumstances.
Jean Ratelle 2 2.30%
Bobby Orr 23 26.44%
Mario Lemieux 28 32.18%
Cam Neely 0 0%
Mike Bossy 2 2.30%
Teemu Selanne 2 2.30%
Pavel Bure 4 4.60%
Viacheslav Fetisov 0 0%
Valeri Kharlamov 5 5.75%
Vladimir Konstantinov 1 1.15%
Jaromir Jagr 2 2.30%
Alexander Mogilny 0 0%
Theoren Fleury 1 1.15%
Peter Forsberg 6 6.90%
Eric Lindros 11 12.64%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-09-2011, 10:48 PM
  #1
Seanconn*
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The biggest "what ifs" In the history of hockey.

same as the other thread. taking account for injuries, teams played for, health problems, personal problems, political repression, the whole lot of things that prevented what could have been.


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01-09-2011, 11:00 PM
  #2
Reverend Mayhem
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For my team:

What Moore never hit Naslund?

What if Lafayette didn't hit the post?

What if we never got rid of Cam Neely?

What if we inked Gretzky?

Others:

What if Bobby Orr didn't have bad knees?

What if the Devils didn't win the Cup in 1995? (Triggering the dead puck era)

What if Vladimir Konstantinov didn't get into a car accident?

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01-09-2011, 11:09 PM
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Bryz4shiz
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Pelle Lindberg should be up there too

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01-09-2011, 11:14 PM
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Seanconn*
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Pure NHL I go to Lemieux, but for just all of it, Kharlamov. If the Soviet's and the US weren't such stupid *****es with each other, maybe their players could have joined the NHL, and Kharlamov might have had an exciting NHL career and to this day could have led in goals scored by an NHL player.

who knows maybe if they were just Russia like it is today, and we didn't have that ideological blockade, Russia might have had 1 or 2 teams, which I don't care what argument you throw against it... it could work if people make it work!!!

Given how extensive air travel has become, it would be entirely feasible given that the Russian teams go on longer USA/Canada road trips, like 2-3 times longer than what a current NHL's road trip would be like. And Every team in the NHL plays the either 1 Russian or 2 Russian team as close to exactly the same amount of times as every other NHL team as possible. 1 team St. Pete, 1 in Moscow, they would sell out every single game, and the NHL gets wayyyyy more exposure then ever before, and the NHL would get a HUGE increase of Russian players. but the KHL could definitely still survive, but it would lose a ton of it's elite players.

they would play huge blocks of games at home... then go on huge road trips. They would be full of Russian players, but would still have significant numbers or Canadians, Americans, Western-Europeans unlike how KHL teams are composed of a lot of the time almost only Russian players. Don't tell me not almost every single Russian player would NOT be down with the opportunity to play on a Russian NHL team, and say who cares about the increased travelling. Let alone how many NHL'ers on NA teams at large would be open to playing 2 or 3 games a year in Russia. If there

like 60% played in the USA, 40% played in Russia... even 50/50 would work fine. This would be totally epic. I don't see how any other country deserves a team before Russia given their extensive hockey history.

In a 34 team league with each team playing 82 games a season, each team would play 2 or 3 games in Moscow, and 2 or 3 in St. Pete each

St. Pete would go to the East, Moscow to the West. Western Teams would play 3 in moscow and 1 in St. Pete each year, (or as close as possible... some teams may have to play less/more) Eastern Teams would play 3 in St. Pete, and 1 in Moscow... with again some teams maybe having play less/more.

Extend the season 2 weeks longer, and you can accomodate the extra travel time.


Last edited by Seanconn*: 01-09-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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01-09-2011, 11:14 PM
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seventieslord
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Why are Teemu Selanne and Jaromir Jagr "what ifs"?

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01-09-2011, 11:15 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10KeithLeClair25 View Post
Pelle Lindberg should be up there too
I'm really unsure how great Pelle Lindbergh was. The Flyers were a great team that made goalies look better than they were, throughout the 1980s. From Peeters to Lindbergh to Froese, to Hextall.

How come Bob Froese outperformed Lindbergh so much while they were on the same team?

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01-09-2011, 11:34 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Why are Teemu Selanne and Jaromir Jagr "what ifs"?
Jagr is the highest european in NHL career points, and goals. I think had he stayed here and not gone to the KHL, and had no injuries, and played with a healthier Mario, he would have been a top 5 player maybe in the all time stats.




Selanne...

what if the Jet's had stayed in Winnipeg? Selanne would have stayed a Jet, could have very well become their all time leading franchise scorer, and led Winnipeg to its first cup. He had and injury plagued season after his insane rookie season... had he been healthy for 93/94, he could have rivalled Gretzky for the Art Ross that season, had he played another full 84 games in Winnipeg. This is the biggest Selanne "what if" for me, he could have got the art ross he came close to only twice. There was no Mario in the 93/94 season... every single time he was anywhere close to winning the Art Ross, either Mario or Jagr won it... 93/94 was the only year up until 2001, that neither Jagr or Mario won the Art Ross Jet's stay in Winnipeg, Selanne would have never been traded, and I think we could have very well won the Cup by now, also, I think Selanne would have had even better career stats. His last year in Winnipeg, combined with his first 28 games in Anaheim he had 48 assists in Winnipeg and another 20 in Anaheim for a combined 68 in the 1995/1996 season... which was by far the highest in his career. Selanne played the best on the Jets, and had they stayed the Jets, I think he'd have more career goals than Jagr, just not as many assists, because Jagr had massive assists totals, a lot.

The league didn't change completely after 92/93 as someone people would like to say it did, and Selanne dominated the previous season. What if he never got traded to the ducks, or just got drafted by another team in the first place, and had the chance to play with better teams, and players. he probably wouldn't have scored 76 goals, and would have started his NHL career a lot closer to 18/19 years old. might have had better success in the playoffs/ made the playoffs, had he played on better teams... may have even had more 50 goal seasons than he did with Jets/Mighty Ducks. and what if there was no lock out? he might not have had his comeback year in 2006, or his second amazing season to score 48 goals and 46 assists at age 36. So that's why I think Selanne deserves to be as an option on this what if list. but I can agree that he is one that might be on the bubble of a list like this, and that there is probably an older player that could go ahead of him, but hey I'm only 21 man, so I don't have the same knowledge of hockey as an old man like you does


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01-09-2011, 11:38 PM
  #8
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These are all great picks but being a Canucks fan I look at the Bure one. Without being biased I'll take Mario, I think he would be right up there with gretz had he not have health problems throughout his career, and also play with guys like Kurri, Messier...well you know the bunch.

Edit: Still voted for Kharlamov


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01-10-2011, 03:55 AM
  #9
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I think someone has watched Kharlamov highlights recently.

There's no way he would have broken any goal-scoring records in the NHL, since he couldn't do that (not even near) in the Soviet league and in international games/world championships. In the NHL, he would have probably been 'allowed to do more' (i.e. to be more creative and 'selfish') than in Soviet Union, but still.

I do think he would've become a superstar, though, no question.

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01-10-2011, 09:13 AM
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Loto68
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I bet I will be the only person to have voted for him, but I really wonder how many points Ratelle would have put up if he hadn't broken his ankle in 71-72 and if the Rangers could have won the cup if he hadn't just come back from the injury late in the playoffs.

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01-10-2011, 04:31 PM
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RabbinsDuck
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"What if" Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr and Harvey all played on the same team, on the same line, without injuries, for 15 years, with Hasek in net?

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01-10-2011, 05:04 PM
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Probably Eric Lindros.

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01-10-2011, 05:29 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
Jagr is the highest european in NHL career points, and goals. I think had he stayed here and not gone to the KHL, and had no injuries, and played with a healthier Mario, he would have been a top 5 player maybe in the all time stats.




Selanne...

what if the Jet's had stayed in Winnipeg? Selanne would have stayed a Jet, could have very well become their all time leading franchise scorer, and led Winnipeg to its first cup. He had and injury plagued season after his insane rookie season... had he been healthy for 93/94, he could have rivalled Gretzky for the Art Ross that season, had he played another full 84 games in Winnipeg. This is the biggest Selanne "what if" for me, he could have got the art ross he came close to only twice. There was no Mario in the 93/94 season... every single time he was anywhere close to winning the Art Ross, either Mario or Jagr won it... 93/94 was the only year up until 2001, that neither Jagr or Mario won the Art Ross Jet's stay in Winnipeg, Selanne would have never been traded, and I think we could have very well won the Cup by now, also, I think Selanne would have had even better career stats. His last year in Winnipeg, combined with his first 28 games in Anaheim he had 48 assists in Winnipeg and another 20 in Anaheim for a combined 68 in the 1995/1996 season... which was by far the highest in his career. Selanne played the best on the Jets, and had they stayed the Jets, I think he'd have more career goals than Jagr, just not as many assists, because Jagr had massive assists totals, a lot.

The league didn't change completely after 92/93 as someone people would like to say it did, and Selanne dominated the previous season. What if he never got traded to the ducks, or just got drafted by another team in the first place, and had the chance to play with better teams, and players. he probably wouldn't have scored 76 goals, and would have started his NHL career a lot closer to 18/19 years old. might have had better success in the playoffs/ made the playoffs, had he played on better teams... may have even had more 50 goal seasons than he did with Jets/Mighty Ducks. and what if there was no lock out? he might not have had his comeback year in 2006, or his second amazing season to score 48 goals and 46 assists at age 36. So that's why I think Selanne deserves to be as an option on this what if list. but I can agree that he is one that might be on the bubble of a list like this, and that there is probably an older player that could go ahead of him, but hey I'm only 21 man, so I don't have the same knowledge of hockey as an old man like you does
well, I'll give you this much, that is all a biiiiiig what-if.

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01-10-2011, 05:44 PM
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Reverend Mayhem
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Voted for Mike Bossy. Guy would've been right up there with Gretzky if not for the bad back. Very close, though between him Mario and Orr, but I think Bossy got the worst deal of the three, instead of being with the Gretzkys, Marios, and Richards, he is an afterthought.

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01-10-2011, 09:28 PM
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Water

What if water did not freeze? Would ice hockey greats have excelled at other sports - field hockey, etc?

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01-10-2011, 09:43 PM
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Ima take this as a compliment that my thread got jacked.

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01-10-2011, 10:04 PM
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Orr, Lindros, Lemieux, in that order.

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01-11-2011, 03:27 AM
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"Which players career would have been even greater under "ideal" circumstances"

Pretty much every player in history.

I voted for Eric Lindros though because there seems to be the greatest discrepancy because what happened and what could have been. People talk about Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux this way alot but they are still considered two of the greatest players of all time.

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01-11-2011, 03:47 AM
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Gretzky isn't in the poll? What if he stayed in Edmonton. They were all still only 27 .

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01-11-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadarocks View Post
"Which players career would have been even greater under "ideal" circumstances"

Pretty much every player in history.

I voted for Eric Lindros though because there seems to be the greatest discrepancy because what happened and what could have been. People talk about Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux this way alot but they are still considered two of the greatest players of all time.
That's true. A lot of people don't even have Lindros in their top 100 players of all time, while everyone has Orr and Lemieux firmly in the top 4. For this reason alone the answer should be Lindros IMO.

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01-11-2011, 07:46 AM
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Tad Mikowsky
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while it wouldn't top Lemieux or Forsberg, I would of liked to know what would of happened with Pelle Lingburgh's career.

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01-11-2011, 05:09 PM
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I didn't want to vote Lindros, but he's the obvious answer. I voted Jagr and Lemieux because they played on a lot of crappy teams without defense or a goalie. They'd probably have a lot more championships if they had a great gm on their side.

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01-12-2011, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
I didn't want to vote Lindros, but he's the obvious answer. I voted Jagr and Lemieux because they played on a lot of crappy teams without defense or a goalie. They'd probably have a lot more championships if they had a great gm on their side.
how did you vote for both? I still think if the penguins had fixed the finances in the middle of the 1990's by either moving, or getting the new arena/ owner sooner, Jagr would have stayed a Penguin, and Penguins might have snagged a cup before the lockout.

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01-12-2011, 11:20 PM
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also thought, I'd make the poll to include some players with limited or no NHL exposure.

Didn't mean to thread jack, sorry

just thought more players should have been made options, so I made my own thread.

If they can merge em, and take out fleury swap in hasek...

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01-13-2011, 12:17 AM
  #25
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The biggest "what if" is Lemieux, because one can reasonably speculate that he would've challenged Gretzky's totals playing the same number of games as Gretzky.

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