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Things about to blow up???

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Old
01-10-2011, 10:54 AM
  #1
HockeyRulez
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Things about to blow up???

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/0...t-upgrade.html

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01-10-2011, 11:22 AM
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Doesn't look like anything blowing up to me. In fact, he says "We have a good month in front of us." So if anything, I get the impression that nothing is happening for another month.

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01-10-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by KittysGotClaws View Post
Doesn't look like anything blowing up to me. In fact, he says "We have a good month in front of us." So if anything, I get the impression that nothing is happening for another month.
The article basically states that they are showing good effort but still keep losing to good teams cause we need more talent, and clearly throughout the article you can tell their frustrated....

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01-10-2011, 11:42 AM
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Basically we'll be riding this craptacular train till the deadline and unload everything we can for picks

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01-10-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
The article basically states that they are showing good effort but still keep losing to good teams cause we need more talent, and clearly throughout the article you can tell their frustrated....
Sure, but it's not as easy to do ("let's get more talent") as to say.

The team has too much money tied up in players who are overpaid relative to their production/value (Olesz, McCabe, Vokoun, Booth, Reinprecht, Wideman, Allen). That needs to change.

The team has historically drafted the wrong players and developed them poorly. That needs to change.

Yes, this team needs to be blown up. That will happen. I expect that Tallon will be a very active seller at the deadline.

Adding talent? Much tougher. You'll probably see another oversized draft class this year (another "2 1/2 drafts in one" year). Those players will be years away from helping a franchise that is on life support though. I expect, despite his preaching the value of the draft, that Tallon will be trying to move some assets to acquire young players who will be able to contribute in a year or two.

I knew that this team had minimal chance of making the playoffs this year. I had very, very low expectations. What is depressing is that, barring some brilliant moves by Tallon, this won't be a playoff team next year either.

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01-10-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Sure, but it's not as easy to do ("let's get more talent") as to say.

The team has too much money tied up in players who are overpaid relative to their production/value (Olesz, McCabe, Vokoun, Booth, Reinprecht, Wideman, Allen). That needs to change.

The team has historically drafted the wrong players and developed them poorly. That needs to change.

Yes, this team needs to be blown up. That will happen. I expect that Tallon will be a very active seller at the deadline.

Adding talent? Much tougher. You'll probably see another oversized draft class this year (another "2 1/2 drafts in one" year). Those players will be years away from helping a franchise that is on life support though. I expect, despite his preaching the value of the draft, that Tallon will be trying to move some assets to acquire young players who will be able to contribute in a year or two.

I knew that this team had minimal chance of making the playoffs this year. I had very, very low expectations. What is depressing is that, barring some brilliant moves by Tallon, this won't be a playoff team next year either.
I realize getting true talent is tough and I agree with you on that point, but don't cut Tallon so short.

I really think he's done with the re-building process. From the sound of this article, it just seems like Tallon is aware that we're a few really good guys away from being a contender. We have enough talent coming up and enough young talent on the roster to compliment those players perfectly. We also have a bit of depth that will let us make a trade.

Think about all the star trades in history. How many of them have been completely fair, and how many of them were a "rip-off"? Most of them are pretty bad but the trades still happen. I feel like Dale is going to build this team this season/off-season. He knows he has a ton of great talent coming up and he has some chips to play with.

Let's just see what happens. Tallon sounds frustrated and he won't want to lose for much longer, trust me.

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01-10-2011, 01:29 PM
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How in the H.E.Double hockey sticks can someone say Booth has a bad contract? He has 26 points so far this season and while it's not top of the league, he's still one of our best players and were lucky to have him here. I do agree with all the others but that's why Voloun, McCabe, Reino, Stillman and hopefully Allen will be gone to open up the check book. Hopefully Oy-lesz will be gone too!!

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01-10-2011, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
How in the H.E.Double hockey sticks can someone say Booth has a bad contract? He has 26 points so far this season and while it's not top of the league, he's still one of our best players and were lucky to have him here. I do agree with all the others but that's why Voloun, McCabe, Reino, Stillman and hopefully Allen will be gone to open up the check book. Hopefully Oy-lesz will be gone too!!


We aren't lucky to have Booth. We are unlucky that he is our best scoring forward. $4.25M a season for 52 points.

I like Booth. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think his contract is good value.

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01-10-2011, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
We aren't lucky to have Booth. We are unlucky that he is our best scoring forward. $4.25M a season for 52 points.

I like Booth. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think his contract is good value.
I agree, and I feel his concussion history subtracts some value from his contract as well.

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01-10-2011, 02:13 PM
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Actually, Booth has 23 pts., and he does have a bad contract. He might recover and be the player he was again, or he might not. Until he does though, he has a bad contract. Paying 4.5M for a guy on pace to score a little over 45 pts. is far from ideal. We all know why Booth is underperforming right now, and we love him, but it doesn't change the cold hard facts. His contract could become another albatross for us and that's why I assume Tallon might have been putting the feeler out to see what he could potentially get for him.

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01-10-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
The article basically states that they are showing good effort but still keep losing to good teams cause we need more talent, and clearly throughout the article you can tell their frustrated....
But Tallon's saying there is no need to panic and they have more than a month until the deadline. So basically he will stand pat until then, and where we are in the standings will determine what kinds of moves we make at the deadline.

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01-10-2011, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthiasitchy View Post
I realize getting true talent is tough and I agree with you on that point, but don't cut Tallon so short.

I really think he's done with the re-building process. From the sound of this article, it just seems like Tallon is aware that we're a few really good guys away from being a contender. We have enough talent coming up and enough young talent on the roster to compliment those players perfectly. We also have a bit of depth that will let us make a trade.

Think about all the star trades in history. How many of them have been completely fair, and how many of them were a "rip-off"? Most of them are pretty bad but the trades still happen. I feel like Dale is going to build this team this season/off-season. He knows he has a ton of great talent coming up and he has some chips to play with.

Let's just see what happens. Tallon sounds frustrated and he won't want to lose for much longer, trust me.
How will we get these "really good guys" though? Our prospects will take 2-3 years, and waiting for them and counting on them being impact players is risky. And we already traded two of our biggest trade chips in Horton and Ballard.

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01-10-2011, 03:26 PM
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I think we need to give Booth the benefit of the doubt here, he's not Olesz. He's always pushing himself and seems to be all over the ice, so I'm sure more pucks and points will go his way this season. I think Booth is worth every penny of his contract, even with the concussions, he still stays motivated and pushes himself to be better. I really am not worried about Booth and I think Tallon needs to give Booth, Weiss, and Frolik better teammates who can take the scoring pressure off of them and give them some much needed help.
As far as I know the only big named forward available ( as of right now) is Alex Semin. Who knows if Tallon can persuade him to come to FLA, but if there was a man who could do It would be Tallon. Even if you consider Booth a bad contract , were still losing McCabe,Vokoun,Stillman,Reinprecht, hopefully Allen and Olesz, and that's a lot of cap space to spend on players we need to improve.

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01-10-2011, 03:27 PM
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Also Booth is playing on the 3rd scoring line, so it's not like he's getting 30 mins of ice time a game. (although I will admit he's been double shifted before)

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01-10-2011, 03:45 PM
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What do you mean he's on the 3rd line? He's still being paired with Santo and Bernier or Dads, but he's being double shifted when Hordi's in. At least, that's what I've seen.

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01-10-2011, 03:50 PM
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I love Booth's work ethic and his story. I understand the love fans have for him as a rare bright spot in an otherwise bleak organization.

If you strip all that away, and look at his performance... his production... his injury...

He's not a $4.25M a year player.

Weiss is a good contract at $3.1M a year and Weiss > Booth.

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01-10-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
I love Booth's work ethic and his story. I understand the love fans have for him as a rare bright spot in an otherwise bleak organization.

If you strip all that away, and look at his performance... his production... his injury...

He's not a $4.25M a year player.

Weiss is a good contract at $3.1M a year and Weiss > Booth.
I agree with this. I mean, had Booth been able to play last season and picked up where he left off the season before, he'd be a bargain. Still, I hope he goes nowhere. I still love the guy and think he can rebound to his old self. I mean, this is the first season back after missing the large majority of last season due to head injuries, that's tough. I think he's doing pretty well considering.

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01-10-2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
I love Booth's work ethic and his story. I understand the love fans have for him as a rare bright spot in an otherwise bleak organization.

If you strip all that away, and look at his performance... his production... his injury...

He's not a $4.25M a year player.

Weiss is a good contract at $3.1M a year and Weiss > Booth.
While I agree with you, it doesn't really matter to the success of the Florida Panthers if Booth makes $4.25M or $3.5M. I mean, if I were the owner of the Panthers I would certainly care that I was paying too much money for a player that doesn't produce enough. But we aren't talking about our pocketbooks here, so who really cares?

Because from a GM and a hockey perspective, the only thing that matters at this point is how close we are to the cap. The Panthers are nowhere near the ceiling, so this is really a non-issue. If your argument is "well, the Panthers have a self-imposed cap of X -$8M (or what have you) and Booth's higher salary is taking away money that we could be spending for another player."

Well how much money? It's only the $725k difference in the hypothetical overpriced contract, which is less than what we pay Darcy Hordichuk each year.

So ultimately, unless we care about the owner's personal finances or think Darcy Hordichuk or a player of his pay-grade is enough to be an absolute game changer I think we are spending too much time talking about a non-issue.

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01-10-2011, 04:32 PM
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I don't think Tallon has much of a choice here. He can either do what he did last year and grab as many picks as possible or he can have nothing to show for missing the playoffs.

It's the same old story that has played itself out here again and again...and I believe we will be seeing the same story for the next two years minimum. I do think we can get out of this hole by spending some money and surrounding that money with our youngsters but I doubt that will happen (and I don't really see any reasonably priced talent available anyways). So unless our young guys miraculously play above their potential, expect more of the same...

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01-10-2011, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by johano90 View Post
While I agree with you, it doesn't really matter to the success of the Florida Panthers if Booth makes $4.25M or $3.5M. I mean, if I were the owner of the Panthers I would certainly care that I was paying too much money for a player that doesn't produce enough. But we aren't talking about our pocketbooks here, so who really cares?

Because from a GM and a hockey perspective, the only thing that matters at this point is how close we are to the cap. The Panthers are nowhere near the ceiling, so this is really a non-issue. If your argument is "well, the Panthers have a self-imposed cap of X -$8M (or what have you) and Booth's higher salary is taking away money that we could be spending for another player."

Well how much money? It's only the $725k difference in the hypothetical overpriced contract, which is less than what we pay Darcy Hordichuk each year.

So ultimately, unless we care about the owner's personal finances or think Darcy Hordichuk or a player of his pay-grade is enough to be an absolute game changer I think we are spending too much time talking about a non-issue.

I agree! I was trying to make the same point as you but I'm not as well-spoken as you are. LOL. I think when it comes down to it, Booth deserves a chance to fully rebound from his injuries and given the circumstances that he had two, not one but two concussions, I think he's done fine so far this season. I know $4.25 Mil sounds like a lot to pay a player who only has 11 goals so far this season,but I was trying to make a point that I think it's okay to give Booth that much because of his heart and soul and the desire he has for the game. I'd much rather take that kind of chance on a player like Booth then on someone like Olesz who has a ridiculous contract and doesn't seem to want to improve himself, much like Booth does. Not to mention having Booth's contract doesn't really tie our hands when it comes to the cap because we're losing a lot of players with big contracts this deadline/offseason, so that makes Booth's contract easier to except. I just don't think Booth or his contract is a liability to our team.

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01-10-2011, 04:45 PM
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I don't think Tallon has much of a choice here. He can either do what he did last year and grab as many picks as possible or he can have nothing to show for missing the playoffs.

It's the same old story that has played itself out here again and again...and I believe we will be seeing the same story for the next two years minimum. I do think we can get out of this hole by spending some money and surrounding that money with our youngsters but I doubt that will happen (and I don't really see any reasonably priced talent available anyways). So unless our young guys miraculously play above their potential, expect more of the same...
Like I said ( and I know it's a longggggggg shot) So far, Semin is a UFA and I am not sure if Washington can afford his contract, so maybe Tallon can work his magic and land Semin in the offseason. OR! He can trade Vokoun for Semin before/at the deadline. Again, I know I'll be stoned by the masses here for suggesting this,but Washington( I hear) is in need of a good goaltender and I am sure Vokoun would resign with a team like that, not to mention he deserves a winning team in front of him. I also think if there is one GM that could convince a player like Semin to sign with the Panthers, it would be Tallon.

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01-10-2011, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Sure, but it's not as easy to do ("let's get more talent") as to say.

The team has too much money tied up in players who are overpaid relative to their production/value (Olesz, McCabe, Vokoun, Booth, Reinprecht, Wideman, Allen). That needs to change.

The team has historically drafted the wrong players and developed them poorly. That needs to change.

Yes, this team needs to be blown up. That will happen. I expect that Tallon will be a very active seller at the deadline.

Adding talent? Much tougher. You'll probably see another oversized draft class this year (another "2 1/2 drafts in one" year). Those players will be years away from helping a franchise that is on life support though. I expect, despite his preaching the value of the draft, that Tallon will be trying to move some assets to acquire young players who will be able to contribute in a year or two.

I knew that this team had minimal chance of making the playoffs this year. I had very, very low expectations. What is depressing is that, barring some brilliant moves by Tallon, this won't be a playoff team next year either.
However judging by the performance of many of our draft picks in last summer's draft at the world juniors and their respective teams i think that our recent picks will not only have a larger effect on this team than ones past but also should be available in a shorter period of time. Howden, Bjustad, Gudbranson all look like future NHLers from my viewpoint. I also dont entirely agree with your stance on the booth contract. At the time he was signed was well before anyone couldve imagined he would face a double concussion season. He also is a fan favorite and probably has the most pure talent of any of our offensive line. The key is to keep him and ADD ON so that we have a team that has david booth on the third line because we have so much talent (Think Sharp on the Hawks). The key for panthers is starting to win trades. If someone kept a record of trades over the league the panthers record on winning trades would equal the number of wins in games=Not very many. The key is upgrading on talent and not giving up too much in return. If the only way to do that is via the draft than so be it. And lets face it, the only way the panthers are going to attract high end talent in the market is not on promises of winning the stanley cup its by outbidding and overpaying guys and the panthers have done it over and over again. the problem is they have done with the wrong players.

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01-10-2011, 05:08 PM
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If it's true that Tallon was interested in an upgrade we could have went after Wolski. He was just traded for Rozival.

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01-10-2011, 05:17 PM
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If it's true that Tallon was interested in an upgrade we could have went after Wolski. He was just traded for Rozival.

He has 16 points in 36 games. He was called a lazy player by Phx fans.

Glad we didn't go after him.

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01-10-2011, 05:24 PM
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If it's true that Tallon was interested in an upgrade we could have went after Wolski. He was just traded for Rozival.
16 points in 36 games at a 3.8 hit carrying over into next season with Av and Coyote fans saying he's got no heart and is lazy (I know, can't be proven)? No way they were looking at Wolski.

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