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[NYR/PHX] Rangers acquire Wolski from PHX for Rozsival

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Old
01-10-2011, 11:19 PM
  #401
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So, Sather deals out these albatross contracts and then ships them out for potential assets. Stupid like a fox?

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01-10-2011, 11:28 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
My thoughts exactly. I'm still trying to figure out how he got Gomez and now Roszival off the books.
Why does everyone think his contract was that hard to move? He only makes 3M in salary next year, which is more than for a solid 20+ min top 4 defenseman, even if he has played inconsistent over the last 2 years or so

Teams like Phoenix don't care about a 5M cap hit because they have plenty of cap room and have no intensions of spending to the cap limit, not to mention the cap is probably going up even more

Pretty even value IMO

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01-10-2011, 11:29 PM
  #403
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What's the over/under on the number of games Wolski plays before he is a healthy scratch again?

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01-10-2011, 11:30 PM
  #404
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What's the over/under on the number of games Wolski plays before he is a healthy scratch again?
8-10 imo

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01-10-2011, 11:41 PM
  #405
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dont know if this is posted but lol



http://bleedingallblue.blogspot.com/...ontent=Twitter

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01-10-2011, 11:52 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by TreeSapLlama View Post
I do think Rozy is undervalued in this thread. Decent trade for both teams.
Rosi is a solid D man. But he's not a PPQB. Not sure why that comes up? He had a few upside offensive years when he was always on the ice with Straka - Nylander- Jagr. Deceptive.

He is a good D man. He stuck in NY a good long time because he was good, and well liked.

You can get a vet to do what Rosi does for 1/2 the $$$ which is why this deal surprises some of us. Simply put we didnt think the contract was movable

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01-10-2011, 11:53 PM
  #407
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dont know if this is posted but lol



http://bleedingallblue.blogspot.com/...ontent=Twitter
Haha nice.

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01-10-2011, 11:53 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Rosi is a solid D man. But he's not a PPQB. Not sure why that comes up? He had a few upside offensive years when he was always on the ice with Straka - Nylander- Jagr. Deceptive.

He is a good D man. He stuck in NY a good long time because he was good, and well liked.

You can get a vet to do what Rosi does for 1/2 the $$$ which is why this deal surprises some of us. Simply put we didnt think the contract was movable
His contract was definitely movable, given how much he actually makes (4 mil this year, 3 mil the next). I wouldn't go as far to say half the money, 2nd pairing guys command more then 2.5 mil.

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01-10-2011, 11:54 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
Why does everyone think his contract was that hard to move? He only makes 3M in salary next year, which is more than for a solid 20+ min top 4 defenseman, even if he has played inconsistent over the last 2 years or so

Teams like Phoenix don't care about a 5M cap hit because they have plenty of cap room and have no intensions of spending to the cap limit, not to mention the cap is probably going up even more

Pretty even value IMO
How many "teams like Phoenix" are there?

Some teams need bad contracts to reach the floor but still...

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01-10-2011, 11:59 PM
  #410
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biggest thing is that the Rangers have been working hard and winning off the that effort more than anything. it's been grit more than talent and potential.

how wolski fits into that, I can't see.

Rozy was good, but often blindly hated; the fans needed a scapegoat.

All that being said, it does provide a wee bit of cap room, make us younger, and gives us another reclamation project.

Seems like both teams make out with something they want.

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01-11-2011, 12:03 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by assassin9110 View Post
dont know if this is posted but lol



http://bleedingallblue.blogspot.com/...ontent=Twitter
LOL! Best post of the thread. Very Nice.

But in reality I can see why the Rangers picked up Wolski. Has some great upside and they may need some scoring. If Wolski can do that, they have a steal. Rozival is something the Coyotes have been looking for all season since Michalek left. He will improve the defense and since Wolski wasn't pulling his weight, it improves Phoenix IMO. A risk for the Rangers, but maybe a high reward. Good deal for Phoenix.

I think on the NHL network or on NHL overtime someone compared Wolski to Victor Kozlov. And if you think about it, that is a great comparison. Kozlov was a nice player and all, but as a Wolski fan, I hope he can be better. You'd have to think someone like him later in his career will be known as a journeyman. He seems to wear out his welcome and expires and needs a fresh start. He has tons of potential but doesn't seem to use it to his strength.

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01-11-2011, 12:22 AM
  #412
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With the Rangers you either bust your butt or you sit. It's that simple. If there is an issue; and I'm not convinced there is, he'll get a clue very quickly. So I'm not concerned at all.

He's 24 and coming off his best season points wise at 65. Despite his lousy year so far, all is not lost for this guy. The Rangers have a solid identity as a hard working team that has totally bought into their system. Tort's has mellowed to some degree this year, but he can be a holy terror if you are not putting forth the proper effort.

The Rangers thought they could work with this guy. We'll see pretty quickly if they can. This will be interesting to watch.
Very similar words came from many a Coyotes fan once they traded for Wolski. It never worked in Phoenix save for a few times, especially right after the trade. Hopefully it works out better for you and Wolski than it did in Colorado and Phoenix.

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01-11-2011, 12:45 AM
  #413
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Just the other night at the Buffalo game I was *****ing to my friends that we desperately needed a Michalek replacement. We needed a guy so badly that could make the simple, smart play. A guy who can block a shot, close a gap, clog a scoring lane, get his stick in the way of a pass, and move the puck quickly and quietly out of the zone. I spent the whole game comparing the way Sekera and Montador play, and comparing it to how our knuckle heads were scrambling around.

I was *****ing about how if Tippett wasn't going to use Wolski, he needed to just move him. That even if he's got sixty point ability he needs to get moved for a consistant fourty point guy that Tippett will actually play. Why have a fourty point Wolski(due to limited minutes and regular scratches), if you can have a fourty point guy that can actually forecheck, win a face-off, and kill a penalty?

I was hoping to move Wolski for a different forward and acquire a Rozsival type for one of our 2nds. Well, we moved Woslki for Rozsival and we still have two 2nds for the deadline. The defenseman was the more pressing need, and Maloney stated that he's been trying to get a top four D for over two months. Clearlly, they are tough to get. I'm fine with moving Wolski for Rozsival and then moving the pick at the deadline for a guy like Hagman(or whovever) that Tippett will actually play, that can contribute down the stretch and in the playoffs like Wolski did last year.

Am I heartbroken to see Wolski go? Nope. He asked for a trade because he'd rather quit on a team than work hard enough to win a spot on the roster. That, my friends, is a L-O-S-E-R. We traded a complete piece of **** in Mueller for him. Big whoop. Having said all of that, I appreciate the spark he brought last season, and the contributions he made against Detroit. For that, I can't say that trading for him was a mistake. I'm glad we acquired him when we did, and I don't really care that we dumped him when we did.

No hard feelings, Wojtek. I wish I could say, "Good luck", but I wouldn't mean it.

Welcome to Phoenix, Rozy. Please do your very best Michalek impression.

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Old
01-11-2011, 12:55 AM
  #414
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I don't know if it's been mentioned in here, but Wolski may have asked for a trade from the Avalanche.

Details aren't really known, but there was some sort of a falling out last year between him and Sacco, coincidentally he was traded right afterwards.

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Old
01-11-2011, 01:15 AM
  #415
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Here's my article from the Phoenix side of things. Includes reactions from both sides of the deal:

http://coyotes.azvibe.com/2011/01/10...gers-reaction/

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01-11-2011, 02:03 AM
  #416
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His play in every situation has been mediocre to poor. Sauer, Eminger (Eminger!) and even Gilroy have outplayed him this season, when he's been better -- if you can call that better -- than he was last season.
It's this sort of ridiculous comment that's turned up from Ranger fans about 10 times in this thread, and anyone making it isn't clued into reality.

Roszival is a proven top-4 defender who is playing 22+ minutes/game in all situations for the Rangers.

Sauer/Eminger/Gilroy have proven nothing, and have looked decent in incredibly sheltered 3rd pairing minutes - 13-14 minutes/game for Gilroy and Sauer, 16 for Eminger.

Take those guys and ramp them up to 22 minutes against top opposition lines on a consistent basis and see what happens. There's a reason Tortorella plays Rozsival nearly 10 minutes/game more than Gilroy and Sauer. It's because he's a better player by a country mile.

It's a hell of a lot harder to look good in the minutes Rozsival is getting than the minutes that other group is getting.

In Eminger's case, it's no co-incidence he's 'improved' this season while getting the lowest average icetime of any of his 5 full NHL seasons, and getting bottom-pairing minutes this season instead of top-4 minutes like he did in Anaheim and TB.

Rozsival is a $4 million defender with a $5 million cap hit (but still only a $4 million salary). He's a bit overpaid, but his contract isn't anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be, and right now he's a hell of a lot more effective NHL player than Wolski (who is essentially a bigger version of Patrick O'Sullivan - an offensive player who doesn't score aside from an occasional hot streak, and is terrible in all other facets of the game).

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01-11-2011, 02:15 AM
  #417
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There goes my mancrush on Wolski.

****.
That right there makes it worth it.

Let's go Rangers!

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01-11-2011, 02:50 AM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
It's this sort of ridiculous comment that's turned up from Ranger fans about 10 times in this thread, and anyone making it isn't clued into reality.

Roszival is a proven top-4 defender who is playing 22+ minutes/game in all situations for the Rangers.

Sauer/Eminger/Gilroy have proven nothing, and have looked decent in incredibly sheltered 3rd pairing minutes - 13-14 minutes/game for Gilroy and Sauer, 16 for Eminger.

Take those guys and ramp them up to 22 minutes against top opposition lines on a consistent basis and see what happens. There's a reason Tortorella plays Rozsival nearly 10 minutes/game more than Gilroy and Sauer. It's because he's a better player by a country mile.

It's a hell of a lot harder to look good in the minutes Rozsival is getting than the minutes that other group is getting.

In Eminger's case, it's no co-incidence he's 'improved' this season while getting the lowest average icetime of any of his 5 full NHL seasons, and getting bottom-pairing minutes this season instead of top-4 minutes like he did in Anaheim and TB.

Rozsival is a $4 million defender with a $5 million cap hit (but still only a $4 million salary). He's a bit overpaid, but his contract isn't anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be, and right now he's a hell of a lot more effective NHL player than Wolski (who is essentially a bigger version of Patrick O'Sullivan - an offensive player who doesn't score aside from an occasional hot streak, and is terrible in all other facets of the game).
So, the Rangers have been without Rozsival in 11 games this season. In those games, they're 8-3. In those same games, Sauer and Eminger have played 16-18 and 17-20 minutes, respectively. And done extremely well. That pairing has been excellent over the past three Rangers games, where they've been getting serious minutes. Yes, they've both been eased into their roles as the season goes along, but you're making it sound as if their skills have been completely untested this season. When they have been asked to play significant minutes, they have excelled.

Now, can they maintain that pace over a full season? Who knows. It will likely become a moot point as I'm fairly certain Sather will look to acquire a veteran defenseman as soon as the defense begins to show cracks--if it does.

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Old
01-11-2011, 03:07 AM
  #419
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best GM when it comes to trades:

Sather

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01-11-2011, 03:10 AM
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
It's this sort of ridiculous comment that's turned up from Ranger fans about 10 times in this thread, and anyone making it isn't clued into reality.

Roszival is a proven top-4 defender who is playing 22+ minutes/game in all situations for the Rangers.

Sauer/Eminger/Gilroy have proven nothing, and have looked decent in incredibly sheltered 3rd pairing minutes - 13-14 minutes/game for Gilroy and Sauer, 16 for Eminger.

Take those guys and ramp them up to 22 minutes against top opposition lines on a consistent basis and see what happens. There's a reason Tortorella plays Rozsival nearly 10 minutes/game more than Gilroy and Sauer. It's because he's a better player by a country mile.

It's a hell of a lot harder to look good in the minutes Rozsival is getting than the minutes that other group is getting.

In Eminger's case, it's no co-incidence he's 'improved' this season while getting the lowest average icetime of any of his 5 full NHL seasons, and getting bottom-pairing minutes this season instead of top-4 minutes like he did in Anaheim and TB.

Rozsival is a $4 million defender with a $5 million cap hit (but still only a $4 million salary). He's a bit overpaid, but his contract isn't anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be, and right now he's a hell of a lot more effective NHL player than Wolski (who is essentially a bigger version of Patrick O'Sullivan - an offensive player who doesn't score aside from an occasional hot streak, and is terrible in all other facets of the game).
The TOI numbers of Gilroy/Sauer/Eminger are all terrible judges of the current state of the Rangers' D because of early season play and line juggling, and the fact MDZ was still playing 20+ a night when most of that occurred.

The numbers for Sauer and Eminger are just about even with Roszival over the past month or so, and rightfully so, because they've pretty much outplayed him over that stretch.

Also, Roszival isn't playing "in all situations," or at least not effectively. He leads the current Rangers' defense in PP TOI, and that's simply because of lack of options, not because of any aptitude. The last time he had any real success over a complete season in terms of PPP was when Jagr was scoring at will.

And he was barely the Rangers' second option on the PK as well. Eminger has averaged more PK TOI all season, and Sauer has gotten about 30 seconds less per game, and that's even with skewed numbers.

Rozy has played marginally better opponents (-0.023 to Eminger's -0.072/ Sauer's -0.103 ), and the reality is he's never facing the other team's top lines, Staal and Girardi are. Of course Eminger/Sauer were being fed lesser competition at first, that's what happens when you're a 27yr old with his 3rd team and a rookie, but they've played progressively better and are now getting far more minutes, evident by the fact they've essentially played identical ES TOI with Rozy in the last three games they've all played prior to his injury.


Rozsival is a fine player, but he's a jack of all trades, master of none. He's nothing more than league average at the PP and at the PK, doesn't bring a tremendously physical game, has a quality shot but rarely uses it, shows vision but is not a prolific passer, doesn't block a ton of shots but does impede passing lanes. Decent speed but can close gaps at times. He does absolutely nothing to wow you on a nightly basis, but because he does make mistakes like any other NHL defensemen, it makes the fact he's not overly good in any area even more glaring.

In a non-cap world, he's a wonderful #4 defensemen and would be an outstanding bottom pair. Making 5 million at 33 years old and not getting better, he's a lost step away from being an albatross contract. He's been a trooper for the Rangers, so I hope he does well in Phoenix.

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01-11-2011, 07:24 AM
  #421
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dont know if this is posted but lol



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That is based on a 65 pt season, not a 30. I hope he does well for you guys, but it's kinda funny how Ranger fans think that Torts can motivate a guy that Sacco and Tippet cant. He was horrible this year. Thats why he might have been our most talented player but was scratched or got 8 minutes a night and did nothing.

The Coyotes are scoring more this year than last and we win with D. We can never have to many hardworking players. Good luck with Lisen jr.

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01-11-2011, 07:48 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
It's this sort of ridiculous comment that's turned up from Ranger fans about 10 times in this thread, and anyone making it isn't clued into reality.

Roszival is a proven top-4 defender who is playing 22+ minutes/game in all situations for the Rangers.

Sauer/Eminger/Gilroy have proven nothing, and have looked decent in incredibly sheltered 3rd pairing minutes - 13-14 minutes/game for Gilroy and Sauer, 16 for Eminger.

Take those guys and ramp them up to 22 minutes against top opposition lines on a consistent basis and see what happens. There's a reason Tortorella plays Rozsival nearly 10 minutes/game more than Gilroy and Sauer. It's because he's a better player by a country mile.

It's a hell of a lot harder to look good in the minutes Rozsival is getting than the minutes that other group is getting.

In Eminger's case, it's no co-incidence he's 'improved' this season while getting the lowest average icetime of any of his 5 full NHL seasons, and getting bottom-pairing minutes this season instead of top-4 minutes like he did in Anaheim and TB.

Rozsival is a $4 million defender with a $5 million cap hit (but still only a $4 million salary). He's a bit overpaid, but his contract isn't anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be, and right now he's a hell of a lot more effective NHL player than Wolski (who is essentially a bigger version of Patrick O'Sullivan - an offensive player who doesn't score aside from an occasional hot streak, and is terrible in all other facets of the game).
Obviously, you haven't watched Rozsival over the past 3 seasons refuse to use his "great shot" on the PP (so he was taken off, put back on, taken off again), stumble around, crash into his own net with no pressure being applied to him as he tried to carry the puck out of his own zone, watch passes hop over his stick and out of the zone with seconds to go in a tight game. He was skilled at one time, but the game has passed him by. The players who deserve minutes will now get them, because as little as they might play now, their play in those minutes surpasses Rozsival's. He got more minutes because he he was the veteran defenseman but, clearly, the decisionmakers in the Rangers organization concluded he could no longer cut it. Sather was interested in Wolski. He didn't say he had to have him. There's no great sacrifice in losing Rozsival, no great savings in shedding his cap number, so that speaks volumes for what the Rangers think of his level of play.

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01-11-2011, 07:56 AM
  #423
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That is based on a 65 pt season, not a 30. I hope he does well for you guys, but it's kinda funny how Ranger fans think that Torts can motivate a guy that Sacco and Tippet cant. He was horrible this year. Thats why he might have been our most talented player but was scratched or got 8 minutes a night and did nothing.

The Coyotes are scoring more this year than last and we win with D. We can never have to many hardworking players. Good luck with Lisen jr.
Rangers have had the experience with Zherdev. Either Wolski will pick up his game or he won't play. It's not like they're replacing offense that Frolov was providing. Frolov played hard with no results. That's all they'll ask of Wolski, although the effort, if it's there, will hopefully bring results.

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01-11-2011, 09:02 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
It's this sort of ridiculous comment that's turned up from Ranger fans about 10 times in this thread, and anyone making it isn't clued into reality.

Roszival is a proven top-4 defender who is playing 22+ minutes/game in all situations for the Rangers.

Sauer/Eminger/Gilroy have proven nothing, and have looked decent in incredibly sheltered 3rd pairing minutes - 13-14 minutes/game for Gilroy and Sauer, 16 for Eminger.

Take those guys and ramp them up to 22 minutes against top opposition lines on a consistent basis and see what happens. There's a reason Tortorella plays Rozsival nearly 10 minutes/game more than Gilroy and Sauer. It's because he's a better player by a country mile.

It's a hell of a lot harder to look good in the minutes Rozsival is getting than the minutes that other group is getting.

In Eminger's case, it's no co-incidence he's 'improved' this season while getting the lowest average icetime of any of his 5 full NHL seasons, and getting bottom-pairing minutes this season instead of top-4 minutes like he did in Anaheim and TB.

Rozsival is a $4 million defender with a $5 million cap hit (but still only a $4 million salary). He's a bit overpaid, but his contract isn't anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be, and right now he's a hell of a lot more effective NHL player than Wolski (who is essentially a bigger version of Patrick O'Sullivan - an offensive player who doesn't score aside from an occasional hot streak, and is terrible in all other facets of the game).
you make a good argument for the old mike rozy. not the rozy of today.

and you are missing the boat on the play of eminger/sauer/gilroy of late and even the youngster ryan mcdonough. those 4 guys have played pretty well and especially eminger and sauer- they've shown they can handle some serious minutes and do quite well. torts obviously feels comfortable playing them against scoring lines- something i didnt think i would ever see.

i really think the last 2 wins on the road against a very solid dallas team and an undermanned st louis showed torts and slats that this team can win without rozy in the lineup.

rozy was not getting top minutes against top lines at all recently. the staal/girardi pairing got that assignment to the tune of @ 30 minute per game. rozy was getting his minutes but he was off the ice for all important dzone draws late in games and was not being used on the pp at all recently. his game has slipped and torts lost some confidence in him. the writing was on the wall.

at 33 years of age and 2 more years left, it was only a matter of time before rozy was shipped out. that slats could get a 24 yr old (perimeter player extraordinaire and another enigma on broadway) wojtek wolski suprised me to be honest, i thought the best we could expect for mike would be a 3rd round pick.

for that alone, slats deserves praise. he sure can turn a crap contract into something serviceable about as good as any gm in the league.

one last thing, given your synopsis of rozy, i cant wait to hear what you would say about chris "capt. quaalude" drury when we finally unload his contract....

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01-11-2011, 09:07 AM
  #425
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Welcome to Phoenix, Rozy. Please do your very best Michalek impression.
Eh, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Michalek is a rock defensively, and Rozsvial is not. He makes poor decisions with the puck when pressure is applied, and he's probably the least effective shot blocker on our blue line -- or at least he was.

You need a Michalek-type to pair with Rozy. He's not going to fill that role very well.

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