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Los Angeles Kings Need A Major Attitude Adjustment

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Old
01-13-2011, 02:53 AM
  #26
RAZZIE King
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We need Mike The Weasel Keenan to tick us off with his goalie rotations...

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01-13-2011, 09:02 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Beauty, eh? View Post
I think the majority of the blame lies with Lombardi, and his inability to land a top name via UFA (Chara, Hossa, Kovalchuk, Gaborik) or trade. I also agree with Herby that Murray has not exactly been given an all-star team to work with but honestly, that's no excuse IMO. Good coaches get the absolute MOST out of the players they have to work with. Murray is an inept Coach who seems unable to adapt to the style most teams employ in today's NHL. Also, I have never seen a Coach match lines so poorly.

And don't even get me started on the ridiculous game of musical chairs known as our daily line combinations. I thought we had it bad with Andy Murray and Crawford - Terry Murray beats them both at that game, hands down. 42 games into the season is NOT the time to be STILL toying with your ****ing lines. How often do you see other teams doing the same thing with the frequency that Murray does it? Not very often.

I really look forward to the day when the Kings clean house and Lombardi and Murray are both shown the door. I'd like to see what Luc could do as GM, seeing what Yzerman has been able to do in Tampa and Nieuwendyk has been able to do in Dallas.
Thanks for that, especially the bolded part. I needed a good laugh.

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01-13-2011, 10:10 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
I mentioned it so many times now....... there is a perfect example of how to grow players. Datsyuk and Zetterberg grew between Shanahan and Hull......... our guys between Armstrong, Handzus or Willsie type of players.

The Wings guys actually learned fine NHL 2 way hockey.
Our guys just learn a little bit of a role game.

This damage will catch us in the near future. Frolov is a perfect example and just the beginning. When he started here he was an excellent young prospect.
A constant 30+ goal scorer.
When he was put beside the freaks and Murray arrived you could clearly see a declining of skills and attitude.

Everyone is yelling Brown for missing creativity.
But i tell you this creativity was just destroyed by the system.
Was was always paired with the slowest guys you could find.
That resulted in always being alone in the o-zone and didn't have any other chance than shooting the puck mostly into the goalies chest.
He did that style during his most improtant years of his carreer. This damage will never be fixed again.


Now tell me.......... with playing styles from vets like Smyth, Handzus or Stoll........
what exactly do you expect from the young guys.
Just keep an eye on Clifford....... for i don't know reason he tries to imitate Westgarth. If nobody stops that **** and keep him away from Westgarth you will see a huge disappointing career from a young guy with promising skills and body frame.
And everyone will ask........ how did that happen...... he had all skills in the world
I think, Kurri, that in this respect you are quite correct. The system changed the players and NO PLAYER on this team suffered from it as much as Frolov. (I know that boat has sailed too)

But when you make players play along the boards or primarily and dump and retrieve system it stifles the creativity that you want to encourage.


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01-13-2011, 10:24 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
So now some want Murray to take the fall for the teams failures this season, just like Crawford before him.

I assume 2-3 seasons from now we will be doing this all over again, unless ofcourse the gaping holes on the roster have been fixed by then, but if they haven't been fixed after five years what makes you think two years from now they will be any different?

I can't believe I am defending TM here, but honestly the LR quote about chicken soup fits this roster perfectly. How is TM supposed to win hockey games with no first line winger and no second line center on the team his entire tenure here?

Ryan Getzlaf broke his face and is out 6-8 weeks, what would happen to the Kings if Kopitar got hurt? We would be right down with the Alberta teams, that's what.

Let's not try and act like TM is at the helm of the 2002 Red Wings and is driving it into the ground, this roster aint as good as most here think it is.
Are you serious?

Look at the growth in the roster and the players since TM took over. DL tried to fill the LW hole with IK and he wanted the bigger contract and to be a good player on a bad team. He got it.
DL went after D even before IK on the offseason.

With the parity in the league, there are less seller every year than there have been in the past.

If you can't that this time is younger than even last year and has a ton of potential, then maybe you need to take your hate glasses off.
Clifford and Schenn are going to be beasts. The team is learning how to win and is younger than last year. You act like we are the Oilers or the Islanders. This is the 6th youngest team in the league and we are in contention. Sure, this is a losing streak and I hope it's the worst of the year but it's far from as bad as you are painting it.

There is a whole pipeline of assets and skilled players on the way and you are acting like it's 2003 and we're waiting for Deadmarsh and Allison to come back.

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01-13-2011, 10:58 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
There is a whole pipeline of assets and skilled players on the way.
Yeah, I can't wait until Jared Aulin, Denis Grebeshkov, Konstantin Pushkarev, Lauri Tukonen, Yanick Lehoux, and Jeff Tambellini lead us to the cup!

Seriously, that song and dance has been done before. We spent 7+ years during the Dave Taylor era waiting for the prospects to lead us to the promised land. Don't believe me? Go back and look at some HF posts or top prospects list from 5 years ago, they are all basically identical to some of the stuff you can read now.

Look, I don't disagree that we have some talented young players, but at some point you've got to push forward with what you've got and make moves that are made to make the club better, not just 'filler' type moves that accomplish nothing except create buzzwords that fans use to make excuses for losing. Year 5 of a 5 year rebuild and we are struggling to just make the playoffs because we don't have a legitimate first liner outside of Kopitar or a #2 center? I think TM is a terrible coach, but I'm with Herby and I agree that Dean Lombardi has not lived up to expectations as General Manager.

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01-13-2011, 11:08 AM
  #31
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4 groups of people have to look at themselves and realize that they are the problem. In particular order:

1. The Players - they are paid professionals. Not many of us can go to work and coast through the day, not completing assignments or not get our directed task done and not face some form of punishment. Yes some of us don't work in ideal conditions, or have partners that should not have been hired, but we go get it done and most people still take pride in their work.

2. Terry Murray and staff - The article stated ""Murray pointed to a lack of emotional commitment"". This starts at the top. How can the players show emotion when their boss is a robot who's expression never changes. I don't know what things are like behuind closed doors but on the bench his emotion never changes, just that blank slate look for 60 minutes. We are a young team, youngsters still look to and are guided by their coach. How does he expect emotion and a fire to be lit, when he shows none.

- Secondly - be the boss - Murray is the boss - bench the underperformers, I am sure if Doughty or Stoll watched a game in civies, they would come out with a new attitude.

- assistance - we have to remember we are a half year removed from a true defensive system and a half year removed from Hardy - coincidence - maybe. Our Power play is In-Kompon-tent for long stretches at a time. If you watch an aggresive PP like Washington, you notice a huge difference in attack mentality

3. Dean Lombardi - the last 3 seasons we have needed 3 things to go from pretenders to contenders.

A) Goaltending - I give him props for addressing(getting lucky) with the goaltending situation. We are at a crossroads with Bernier - to good for AHL - not good enough to be a contending back-up. I would have preferred bringing in an established veteran back-up to mentor Quick a bit but not at the price of sending Bernier into no mans land.

B) Second Centerman - This goes back even before D.L's reign, but we need a solid #2 (no Stoll doesn't make the cut). - We have a #1, (2) # 3's, (2) #4's, and (2) young hot prospects in Schenn and Loktionov who won't be major contributers for 3-4 years at least. We have a full cupboard, numerous picks and cap room and have had this for a couple years. You can't tell me that we can't make something work. I agree LeCavalier and Briere are overpriced, but you can't tell me we can't make something work off of stacked teams like the Sharks, Bruins, or Flyers, purging teams like Chicago, or just crappy teams that were missing the play offs the last few years.

C) Left Wing - ya we attempted Kovalchuk, took a swing at Hossa, dabbled in RW Gaborik - but in each case got scared off by either health, legth or price of contracts. Yet we aquire the brittle Strum, the brittle Williams, for wingers, took a chance on Stoll and Mitchell after concussions, and don't forget signing the glass house Cloutier to a 2 year extention before playing a game. It looks like Deano's got stones but can only use them if thge repercussion is to a smaller degree. Oh well we have enjoyed the goal scoring exploits over the years of MacCauley, Bure, Modin, King, Poni, Richardson and the ongoing list of possible square pegs in round holes. Time to get someone that combines speed, skill and a thirst for the net. I cross my fingers that Semin will be in our uniform next year.

4. Us Fans - we have to take part of the blame for raising high expectations from a young, in expiereinced team. We know that we are counting on a 21 year old blueliner, a 24 year old stud center and a 24 year old goalie to lead us to the promise land. these guys are still kids. Most goalies at 24 are being groomed for NHL rigors, most 21 year old dman are still bouncing between the NHL and the minors and only the Elite 24 year old players are scoring at a ppg pace. As much as I want this team to win, I am in this for the long run. We have suffered since 93, we are starting to see the light, we will raise the cup sooner then later. Wether we get to that point with Murray as coach, and Lombardi sitting on his hands remains to be seen. Our players as they mature will level out and not be so up and down in play, they will hone their skills, and learn the defencive side. We as fans need to be there to catch them when they fall but at the same time give them a little kick in the ass constructively. We don't abandon our team, and 90% of the people on here wont in day to day activities.

AT the end of the day we have little to no control of who gets iced, but we can cheer our ***** of for those players who are wearing our crest - GO KINGS GO


Last edited by funky: 01-13-2011 at 11:08 AM. Reason: spelling and grammer
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01-13-2011, 11:15 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
Yeah, I can't wait until Jared Aulin, Denis Grebeshkov, Konstantin Pushkarev, Lauri Tukonen, Yanick Lehoux, and Jeff Tambellini lead us to the cup!

Seriously, that song and dance has been done before. We spent 7+ years during the Dave Taylor era waiting for the prospects to lead us to the promised land. Don't believe me? Go back and look at some HF posts or top prospects list from 5 years ago, they are all basically identical to some of the stuff you can read now.

Look, I don't disagree that we have some talented young players, but at some point you've got to push forward with what you've got and make moves that are made to make the club better, not just 'filler' type moves that accomplish nothing except create buzzwords that fans use to make excuses for losing. Year 5 of a 5 year rebuild and we are struggling to just make the playoffs because we don't have a legitimate first liner outside of Kopitar or a #2 center? I think TM is a terrible coach, but I'm with Herby and I agree that Dean Lombardi has not lived up to expectations as General Manager.
Go back and compare those prospects to these....

If in the DT era, our high pick was Olli Jokinen. He inherited Aki Berg and they completely ruined him.

Dennis Grebeshkov is proof that the Kings development system was total crap. He went elsewhere and has a career in the NHL

When in the DT era did we have a Kyle Clifford or Wayne Simmonds ready to play after 1 year after being drafted?

I think he only reason DB and MC have careers is because of the lockout and their ability to go to the NHL.

Remind me of when during the DT era that we had the likes of Schenn, Toffoli, Vey, Kozun, Bernier, Jones, voynov, etc in the system.

The answer, we didn't. And it wasn't even close.

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01-13-2011, 11:22 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
Yeah, I can't wait until Jared Aulin, Denis Grebeshkov, Konstantin Pushkarev, Lauri Tukonen, Yanick Lehoux, and Jeff Tambellini lead us to the cup!

Seriously, that song and dance has been done before. We spent 7+ years during the Dave Taylor era waiting for the prospects to lead us to the promised land. Don't believe me? Go back and look at some HF posts or top prospects list from 5 years ago, they are all basically identical to some of the stuff you can read now.

Look, I don't disagree that we have some talented young players, but at some point you've got to push forward with what you've got and make moves that are made to make the club better, not just 'filler' type moves that accomplish nothing except create buzzwords that fans use to make excuses for losing. Year 5 of a 5 year rebuild and we are struggling to just make the playoffs because we don't have a legitimate first liner outside of Kopitar or a #2 center? I think TM is a terrible coach, but I'm with Herby and I agree that Dean Lombardi has not lived up to expectations as General Manager.
Well said, you touched on pretty much every point I was going to say.

I would also just add, LBFF. Should there be no accountability from fans towards this management? We were told when Dean Lombardi took over that this would be a five year plan, it's been five years, a long five years and here we are in the fifth year with a very realistic chance of missing the playoffs, you find that acceptable?

If the Kings miss the playoffs in year five of a five year plan does DL deserve to be retained?

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01-13-2011, 11:28 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Well said, you touched on pretty much every point I was going to say.

I would also just add, LBFF. Should there be no accountability from fans towards this management? We were told when Dean Lombardi took over that this would be a five year plan, it's been five years, a long five years and here we are in the fifth year with a very realistic chance of missing the playoffs, you find that acceptable?

If the Kings miss the playoffs in year five of a five year plan does DL deserve to be retained?
I don't remember the five year plan being announced by Lombardi
I remember TL mentioning one when DT was hired.

Are you forgetting how ****ed up the Kings were before DL took over? Are you forgetting the injuries? The hot starts followed by the December - April collapse where we would add Anson Carter or Mark Parrish to try to push us in to just getting in to the playoffs?

Are you also forgetting that we are just 2 points behind last years pace? With a better team.....
Are you also forgetting that DL has said he still plans to add

I am all for accountability, but I am also for realism


Edit- Here are two LA times articles from Lombardi's hiring... Neither of which mention a 5 year plan
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr...rts/sp-kings22
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr...rts/sp-kings21


Here is another article from last year talking about the progress made that again doesn't mention a 5 year plan

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr...nucks-20100415


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01-13-2011, 11:51 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
I don't remember the five year plan being announced by Lombardi
I remember TL mentioning one when DT was hired.

Are you forgetting how ****ed up the Kings were before DL took over? Are you forgetting the injuries? The hot starts followed by the December - April collapse where we would add Anson Carter or Mark Parrish to try to push us in to just getting in to the playoffs?

Are you also forgetting that we are just 2 points behind last years pace? With a better team.....
Are you also forgetting that DL has said he still plans to add

I am all for accountability, but I am also for realism
No one is debating how awful the last few years with Taylor were. But just because the team is in better shape than that team was doesn't mean DL is a championship caliber GM, not even close.

The Kings were given the go ahead by management to be awful for three seasons, the Kings ended up with three top five picks in three years and an additional two first round picks by trading established star players in Demitra and Cammalleri. They also traded guys like Norstrom and Sopel for draft picks, ofcourse the prospect system was going to be better.

But just like when he was with SJ the problem is filling the NHL roster and taking the next step, Dean wasn't able to do it in SJ and he was fired for it, and I think we're going towards the same thing with the Kings unless he addresses some of the major holes on the roster.

As for the pace, last years team had a 9 game winning streak which oddly enough began almost exactly a year ago today, and that is why they made the playoffs. Sorry If I don't see a 9 game winning streak in this teams immediate future, especially with February looming.

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01-13-2011, 11:57 AM
  #36
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Ok maybe I am wrong about there officially being a five year plan. I always assumed that is the timetable, maybe it was mentioned at one of the GM breakfast things I don't know, maybe Diehard can further that.

But the fact still remains if the Kings miss the playoffs in the fifth year of this regime it is a failure that should lead to major changes within the hockey ops of the LA Kings.

After five years the Kings should be taking the step of winning playoff series and looking like serious contenders, not fighting for a bottom playoff seed or missing the playoffs.

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01-13-2011, 12:02 PM
  #37
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No one is debating how awful the last few years with Taylor were. But just because the team is in better shape than that team was doesn't mean DL is a championship caliber GM, not even close.

The Kings were given the go ahead by management to be awful for three seasons, the Kings ended up with three top five picks in three years and an additional two first round picks by trading established star players in Demitra and Cammalleri. They also traded guys like Norstrom and Sopel for draft picks, ofcourse the prospect system was going to be better.

But just like when he was with SJ the problem is filling the NHL roster and taking the next step, Dean wasn't able to do it in SJ and he was fired for it, and I think we're going towards the same thing with the Kings unless he addresses some of the major holes on the roster.

As for the pace, last years team had a 9 game winning streak which oddly enough began almost exactly a year ago today, and that is why they made the playoffs. Sorry If I don't see a 9 game winning streak in this teams immediate future, especially with February looming.
Link on where DL was given the green light to be awful for 3 seasons?
Because I heard differently. I heard that TL asked him to keep signing guys to make the fans think they were still trying while DL rebuilt the org.

Where is your link on where DL announced a 5 year plan BTW?

Dean was not fired for short comings in SJ. This is why he was fired. New ownership was cheap, which forced to to have holdouts.

Quote:
t was then that the Sharks became a strict bottom-line team, with an asterisk. Gund, the billionaire with the jones for owning a hockey team, had given way, selling out to a group of local minority investors who liked owning a hockey team but not necessarily the bills brought on by such an act. Gund had the financial cushion to stay close to the Western Conference's most profligate spenders (Detroit, Colorado, St. Louis), but the new owners either did not, or would not.

And in this day and age, "did not" and "could not" mean essentially the same thing. It's a question of commitment, but the assets still pour out on the loading dock just as fast.

For example, the new owners told Lombardi to hardball goalie Evgeni Nabokov and defenseman Brad Stuart on what should have been no-brainer contracts, during training camp, at a time when a contender needs continuity. Lombardi did as told, Stuart came back (and got hurt), and after a few games, so did Nabokov. Neither has been as good as a year ago, and it is hard to slough off their holdouts as "no big thing."
http://espn.go.com/columns/ratto_ray/1525823.html

Then he was told to trade Selanne, Damphousse, Nolan a few others. He was able to trade everyone but Selanne wouldn't waive his NTC to go to NJ, nor would Damphousse, and he couldn't find a take for Graves

Quote:
Rumors are surfacing that former Sharks GM Dean Lombardi was let go because the contracts of Damphousse, Selanne, and Graves could not be moved.
http://www.sharkspage.com/2003_03_01...e_history.html


Quote:
But people, particularly the owners, expected more, and when Scott Thornton and Teemu Selanne and Mike Ricci weren't moved, Lombardi's position became untenable. He was trying to make sensible hockey deals, when all they wanted from him was deals.

So one week after a trading deadline in which the Sharks were active but not hyperactive, the general manager joined the most successful coach and the franchise's leading scorer at the post office.

Instead of remembering things they way you want them to be, you should start remembering things they way they actually were

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01-13-2011, 12:03 PM
  #38
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01-13-2011, 12:12 PM
  #39
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I want to make a longer post about the supposed lack of prospect and development system in the DT era, but I have to step outside for a few hours.

For now though, here's a couple links mentioning DL's 5 year plan...

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/...five-year-plan

Quote:
Right from the start, Lombardi spoke of a five-year plan that involved restocking the roster with young talent and bringing in veterans who could lead by example.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...spreview091409
Quote:
Lombardi’s five-year plan put an emphasis on drafting and developing, and Los Angeles is starting to benefit from the franchise’s patience.

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01-13-2011, 12:14 PM
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I want to make a longer post about the supposed lack of prospect and development system in the DT era, but I have to step outside for a few hours.

For now though, here's a couple links mentioning DL's 5 year plan...

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/...five-year-plan



http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...spreview091409
ok and where did DL say we would be at the end of that 5 year plan?
In the playoffs?
A perennial playoff team?
A contender?
Cup winner?

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01-13-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
"Maybe"? It's not hard to google. Just admit you made it up and we can move on

No I did not "make it up"... don't really appreciate you calling me a liar either, totally uncalled for truly unexpected from someone like you. And I am not the first person to to mention the five year plan on this board, perhaps I fell for what I always get mad at, people assuming what they read on a message board is fact. But I still stand by the fact that in year five the Kings should be a lot closer to being a good team than they are.

And as for the SJ links, why would management want to keep those aging veterans when the team was nowhere close to a playoff spot?

Lombardi started in SJ in 1996, by the Spring of 2003 the team had won two playoff series and was on their way to finishing last in the division and was bogged down by 30+ players like Damphousse, Graves, McGillis, Marchment, Nolan and Selanne.

After 7 seasons that is where they were, can you really blame them for making a change?

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01-13-2011, 12:26 PM
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No I did not "make it up"... don't really appreciate you calling me a liar either, totally uncalled for truly unexpected from someone like you. And I am not the first person to to mention the five year plan on this board, perhaps I fell for what I always get mad at, people assuming what they read on a message board is fact. But I still stand by the fact that in year five the Kings should be a lot closer to being a good team than they are.

And as for the SJ links, why would management want to keep those aging veterans when the team was nowhere close to a playoff spot?

Lombardi started in SJ in 1996, by the Spring of 2003 the team had won two playoff series and was on their way to finishing last in the division and was bogged down by 30+ players like Damphousse, Graves, McGillis, Marchment, Nolan and Selanne.

After 7 seasons that is where they were, can you really blame them for making a change?
I never called you a liar. I say you made it up. There is a world of difference.
I was wrong about DL ever mentioning the word "5 year plan" I didn't remember him doing it.

The SJ links showed that management interfered forcing holdouts of the teams goalie, Star d-man, etc. The season was ruined and DL was ultimately fired because he couldn't trade a few people.

Look at the drafts a year or two before DL was fired and shortly after (his scouts and development people were kept) and look at the fruit of those drafts



2003
Matt Carle
Milan Michalek
Steve Bernier
Joe Pavelski

DL knew what he was doing. His undoing was ownership meddling, just like TL did with DT.

Do you think that is ownership made DL lowball Doughty and Quick and they held out for months that it wouldn't effect the season?


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01-13-2011, 01:55 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
I was wrong about DL ever mentioning the word "5 year plan" I didn't remember him doing it.
There was a STH meeting not long after DL was hired. He explained at the time was that he expected the Kings to make the playoffs in Season 4 and seriously contend in Season 5

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01-13-2011, 02:35 PM
  #44
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I also wanted to add that Aki Berg was a heroin addict (well known fact) who was struggling with the disease shortly after coming to LA and as recently as three years ago he was still in its grips. He had been thrown off a club team in Finland.

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01-13-2011, 02:37 PM
  #45
Herby
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I also wanted to add that Aki Berg was a heroin addict (well known fact) who was struggling with the disease shortly after coming to LA and as recently as three years ago he was still in its grips. He had been thrown off a club team in Finland.
I think you have him mistaken with Karalahti.

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01-13-2011, 02:47 PM
  #46
Duc620
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I think you have him mistaken with Karalahti.
... that's what I thought as well... Karalahti was the guy with the problem.

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01-13-2011, 02:55 PM
  #47
etherialone
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You are absolutely correct. My mistake. I never met Aki but he wasn't well liked by those who did and I think I just merged Kharalati and him together.

Sorry about that.

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01-13-2011, 09:10 PM
  #48
The Tikkanen
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This team needs a Zenon Konopka or Jarkko Ruutu. The Kings seem to sleep walk for long periods during games, partly due to all of the coaches stoic personalities, partly due to the incredibly boring grind the corners work the points offensive system. This team needs a pest that can play the system.

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01-13-2011, 09:20 PM
  #49
etherialone
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No to Konopka and way yes to Jaws (Ruutu).

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