HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Notices

2011 Panthers coaching - DeBoer fired

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-12-2011, 08:46 AM
  #1
Desert Panther
Resident Lurker
 
Desert Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Frisco, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 2,228
vCash: 500
2011 Panthers coaching - DeBoer fired

I'm a fairly rare poster for the amount of time I lurk on this message board. I honestly cannot believe the amount of vitriol for PDB as well as a certain couple of the players.

I truly believe that the job of a head coach (at any level) is to get the most out of the players he has. PDB has absolutely done that. Is he perfect? Of course not. Is he still one of the brightest young coaches out there? I believe so. Apparently Pierre LeBrun (though I hate ESPN's hockey coverage) agrees with me. Put it this way. Who would you hire as coach if Pete were fired tomorrow as some here want? What do you think it would do to the players' psyche given how hard they work night in and night out?

The root of the problem goes above Pete IMHO. Dale is the first real GM this franchise has had since Rick Dudley (and he wasn't a very good GM ... Bryan Murray was prob the last decent GM we had). I believe once he gets the right personnel in place (we're looking at a couple years, not necessarily even next season) we'll be built for a sustained run. I know it's tough given the suffering in Pantherland over the last decade and more, but we need to be patient and do this the right way. We see what the wrong way has gotten us.


Ok .. rant over.


Last edited by angry_treefrog: 03-24-2011 at 08:20 PM.
Desert Panther is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 09:22 AM
  #2
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,598
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
I, along with a few other posters, have been saying the same thing for some time, that his team is going to go through another tough season next year, before we really see what Tallon is trying to do here. Some people want a quick fix, and they want the playoffs immediately, as I do BADLY, but if being a perennial playoff team for the next decade means I have to go without the playoffs for this season, and probably next season as well, Im more than fine with that.

I was a season seat holder from the 2000 season up until 2008, so Ive been through it all. I am a South Florida sports fan, and while I LOVE all the teams down there, the Panthers are the ones that have the largest piece of my heart. So I desperately want to see them succeed. The thing is though, Tallon hasnt even been here a full year, so we need to give him time to get his hands dirty on this organization. I fully believe he is the right person for the job, and while we've seen growing pains with PDB, I think he has done a very good job given the circumstances, and deserves to see this through.

This team is not going to have those $7-8-9 million players, but Tallon is building incredible depth here. We have some good pieces on the squad already, some that are getting ready to make that jump, and a few more that are a few seasons away. With another good draft, some smart trades and UFA pickups, and luck with our prospects hitting their ceilings, we can have a very competitive team in the next two seasons. We always heard, "wait till next year, wait till next year," in years past, only to see the same crap on the ice, but what has been going on since Tallon has gotten here makes me feel that that, along with everything else, is going to change.

pb1300 is online now  
Old
01-12-2011, 09:26 AM
  #3
HockeyRulez
Welcome back Lu!
 
HockeyRulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Sunshine State
Country: United States
Posts: 2,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
I'm a fairly rare poster for the amount of time I lurk on this message board. I honestly cannot believe the amount of vitriol for PDB as well as a certain couple of the players.

I truly believe that the job of a head coach (at any level) is to get the most out of the players he has. PDB has absolutely done that. Is he perfect? Of course not. Is he still one of the brightest young coaches out there? I believe so. Apparently Pierre LeBrun (though I hate ESPN's hockey coverage) agrees with me. Put it this way. Who would you hire as coach if Pete were fired tomorrow as some here want? What do you think it would do to the players' psyche given how hard they work night in and night out?

The root of the problem goes above Pete IMHO. Dale is the first real GM this franchise has had since Rick Dudley (and he wasn't a very good GM ... Bryan Murray was prob the last decent GM we had). I believe once he gets the right personnel in place (we're looking at a couple years, not necessarily even next season) we'll be built for a sustained run. I know it's tough given the suffering in Pantherland over the last decade and more, but we need to be patient and do this the right way. We see what the wrong way has gotten us.


Ok .. rant over.
in order to head in the right direction we have to part ways with the guys that have been on this team through the garbage years we've had including olesz, booth, vokoun, and Weiss etc.

HockeyRulez is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 09:50 AM
  #4
Mogo
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Mogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,881
vCash: 813
Why I hate DeBoer

- He never uses timeouts when everything goes crappers
- He has no cure for us when we start playing like crap during a game
- He's a silent guy, I want a vocal coach(leader), he never shows emotions
- The way he plays our youngsters (expecially Matthias)
- Keeping Hulton around
- Using the same damn group on the PP all season long not giving Matthias, Dadonov or anyone else a chance on the PP
- The accountability BS
- Riding Vokoun no mather how much he sucks the night before (read above)
- Doesn't know/want to use a an enforcer
- Collapsing tactic. I hate it.
- Were way too passive most of the time (collapsing tactic)

Just a few that came to mind

Mogo is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 09:50 AM
  #5
Desert Panther
Resident Lurker
 
Desert Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Frisco, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 2,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
in order to head in the right direction we have to part ways with the guys that have been on this team through the garbage years we've had including olesz, booth, vokoun, and Weiss etc.
Of course there are certain players that do deserve it. We have a couple guys that are overpaid for what they produce (Olesz being the milestone here). But when does it stop? Obviously if you have a trade that makes the team better, anyone can be moved. But to give up Booth or Weiss or Vokoun without getting comparable talent back (picks, young potential or otherwise) is the same "recipe for disaster" we've been following for the last decade.

Desert Panther is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 09:58 AM
  #6
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,457
vCash: 500
It's not DeBoer's fault that the team lacks talent. In that sense, no he's not THE problem. I don't think that's the relevant question though.

The question is: Is PDB part of the solution? I think only Tallon knows what the answer to that will be. While I wouldn't be shocked to see PDB retained, how often does a new GM come onto a losing team and not replace the previous head coach with one of his choosing?

angry_treefrog is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 09:59 AM
  #7
Desert Panther
Resident Lurker
 
Desert Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Frisco, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 2,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
Why I hate DeBoer

- He never uses timeouts when everything goes crappers
- He has no cure for us when we start playing like crap during a game
- He's a silent guy, I want a vocal coach(leader), he never shows emotions
- The way he plays our youngsters (expecially Matthias)
- Keeping Hulton around
- Using the same damn group on the PP all season long not giving Matthias, Dadonov or anyone else a chance on the PP
- The accountability BS
- Riding Vokoun no mather how much he sucks the night before (read above)
- Doesn't know/want to use a an enforcer
- Collapsing tactic. I hate it.
- Were way too passive most of the time (collapsing tactic)

Just a few that came to mind
Jan: The only things on that list I can honestly agree with is keeping Hulton around and the use of Darcy on a more regular basis. The PP has been downright dismal so yeah maybe use one or more of the kids on it as a changeup. When and where to use a timeout is a difference in style, nothing more. Remember you only have one a game so they're valuable. Silent vs Vocal is again a difference of opinion. Most coaches are the silent type (with the obvious exceptions like Tortorella and Babcock).

Who would you push down further to play Matthias more? Weiss? Santorelli? Reasoner? The kid plays about 12 1/2 minutes a night (about right for a 3rd line). He's got to earn the ice time.

The "collapsing tactic" you refer to I assume is more Gord's department. The forwards come in from the points to help cover the middle and keep things to the outside away from the net.

Desert Panther is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 10:07 AM
  #8
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,003
vCash: 500
Is PD really the problem? Of course not. We all know the main problem is talent level. Does PD deserve to have his contract renewed? IMHO, of course not. Im a full sth here since 1995, after being a partial sth with the rags for 15 years. Many agree, many disagree … the beauty of sports; where the argument of whether a coach belongs likely preceded Lord Stanley. This is the viewpoint I take, respecting both sides.
This is PD's 3rd year, failing (defined by most as making the playoffs) each year. Year one we came close; one major reason we failed IMHO was the bumbling of the Boynton matter that altered the team chemistry and led to a 5 game losing streak. Year two we finished in our worst position in franchise history. Year three we are on our way to an 80 point season.
He does not handle veterans well (see the Boynton example). He promotes a lack of team toughness. Simply see Booth II when he refused to let tarnasky off the bench after the incident, or the amount of time Hordachuck gets, etc. He lacks emotion on the bench to inspire. Find me any video demonstrating any emotion except the stoic appearance with the poor affect. He fails to take any personal accountability. He has blamed our pp epic failure on everything but himself; ex. the opposing goalie? WE WERE 29TH on the PP last year and are dramatically last this year. He has not fired the pp coach and one begins to wonder if that’s because of some friendship or loyalty from previously coaching together. That’s speculation, but its inexplicable how hulton has a job, so anyone’s theory is plausible. Lastly, the collapsing crap, which even his own player portessts ON the record, demonstrates his lack of creativity and a factor in his team now playing groundhog day with every 2-3 goal lead.
He was a good junior coach, failing on the major level to date. I don’t get to keep my job with that kind of record, nor should he. He ran a full three year contract, and that is a lifetime in sports. At the end of this year, Its time for Tallon to choose a coach that reflects his passion and vision, not the predecessor GM’s.

adam graves is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 10:38 AM
  #9
Mogo
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Mogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,881
vCash: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
Jan: The only things on that list I can honestly agree with is keeping Hulton around and the use of Darcy on a more regular basis. The PP has been downright dismal so yeah maybe use one or more of the kids on it as a changeup. When and where to use a timeout is a difference in style, nothing more. Remember you only have one a game so they're valuable. Silent vs Vocal is again a difference of opinion. Most coaches are the silent type (with the obvious exceptions like Tortorella and Babcock).

Who would you push down further to play Matthias more? Weiss? Santorelli? Reasoner? The kid plays about 12 1/2 minutes a night (about right for a 3rd line). He's got to earn the ice time.

The "collapsing tactic" you refer to I assume is more Gord's department. The forwards come in from the points to help cover the middle and keep things to the outside away from the net.
It's not Gord's system. Gord has just made it more aggressive or at least tried.

As for Matthias. Kid is given a chance on top 2 lines plays a good game yet the next game he's demoted to 4th line?

Yes timeouts are valuable but PD doesn't use them much at all. How many times have you seen other coaches use timeouts to get there group back together or give them somekinda talk about WTF is going wrong. Against us alone it happens many times. Sure there the tv commercials but still you lose how many now 6-7 2-3 goal leads in a month and no time outs?

Mogo is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 10:54 AM
  #10
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,973
vCash: 500
Does anyone really think another coach could get more out of THIS team? I don't think so. We're very good 5 on 5, solid defensively, and have a great PK. Our powerplay is atrocious and LATELY we haven't been able to hold leads. As for Pete, it's easy to knock him but the fact is he's coached this team to it's second best record of all time in his first year. Last season he shouldn't be blamed for the low point total as we had a ton of injuries to important players (Booth and Horton) and traded key defensive players at the deadline. The only real problem I have with him is the horrible PP. Overall he's done a good job. I'd rate his tenure here with the grade of B.

Complaining about Hordichuk not getting more shifts is silly. Enforcers don't get a lot of ice time and we've never really had any games when it seemed like he should have been out there after a physical altercation. He hasn't been needed much and we don't need him to play more minutes.

As for Matthias, which center has he outplayed? Weiss? Santorelli? Reasoner? That's why he hasn't gotten more ice time. I'd like to see Matthias get more but the fact is he is the fourth best center on the team and gets the minutes based on where he stands. He looks good out there but he doesn't actually produce. I like how people knock him for not playing Matthias more but don't give him credit for Santorelli's emergence as a player. You want to give Matthias more ice time that means taking it away from Santo or Reas.

It's so easy to blame the problems on the coach but the fact is Pete's done a good job with what we have. The late game collapses might be blamed on Pete but the player's have to be accountable as well. Regardless, our record is better than most of us would have expected and we're competitive 90% of the nights.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 11:24 AM
  #11
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
As for Pete, it's easy to knock him but the fact is he's coached this team to it's second best record of all time in his first year. Last season he shouldn't be blamed for the low point total as we had a ton of injuries...

The only real problem I have with him is the horrible PP.The late game collapses might be blamed on Pete but the player's have to be accountable as well. .
RR if we are giving him credit for yr 1 you cant excuse yr2 and our point total is no improvement here yr 3...
The pp has probably been the difference of 10 points, not only due to the lack of goals, but the momentum sapping failed pp's cause...And if he had the 10 more points, this thread would likely never have been created.

The Santorelli point is a excellent one I give Tallon and PD credit for the pleasure it is to watch him play this year.

adam graves is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 11:31 AM
  #12
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,973
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
RR if we are giving him credit for yr 1 you cant excuse yr2 and our point total is no improvement here yr 3...
The pp has probably been the difference of 10 points, not only due to the lack of goals, but the momentum sapping failed pp's cause...And if he had the 10 more points, this thread would likely never have been created.

The Santorelli point is a excellent one I give Tallon and PD credit for the pleasure it is to watch him play this year.
We had significant injuries to our lineup last season and then we traded away key components. It's only fair to mention that when citing the record.

I agree that PP is a major cause of use not being in the 8th seed or better. But we'd be even worse if our 5 on 5 play wasn't good, our team defense unreliable, and our PK being average or below average. You can't ignore the positives he's brought.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:15 PM
  #13
panthersfan751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
GR wrote in today's column:
Quote:
In Florida's past nine games, they have held at least a two-goal lead in six of them. The Panthers gave up the lead in five of those games and Tuesday's victory was just their third under those circumstances.
So we've had a 2 goal lead 6 times, and have only been able to hold it ONCE.

That falls on everyone. Sure we can blame the players, but DeBoer needs to accept some accountability and blame. He's the head coach. As head coach, he's responsible for putting these players in the best chance to succeed. He's responsible for motivating these players to perform their best. He's responsible to try and instill positive morale and not allow these blown leads to get in the back of everyone's mind when we're trying to hold a lead. Those are the things that a coach is supposed to do, and looking at the results, I don't believe he has done that.

As I've said numerous times, I believe this "no talent" line is becoming a crutch for people to lean on. DeBoer has made mistakes and they constantly seem to get swept under the rug.

panthersfan751 is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:19 PM
  #14
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
We had significant injuries to our lineup last season and then we traded away key components. It's only fair to mention that when citing the record.

I agree that PP is a major cause of use not being in the 8th seed or better. But we'd be even worse if our 5 on 5 play wasn't good, our team defense unreliable, and our PK being average or below average. You can't ignore the positives he's brought.
i brought up the same data points. it's useless; the poster's made up their mind.

zeroG is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:19 PM
  #15
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,973
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
GR wrote in today's column:


So we've had a 2 goal lead 6 times, and have only been able to hold it ONCE.

That falls on everyone. Sure we can blame the players, but DeBoer needs to accept some accountability and blame. He's the head coach. As head coach, he's responsible for putting these players in the best chance to succeed. He's responsible for motivating these players to perform their best. He's responsible to try and instill positive morale and not allow these blown leads to get in the back of everyone's mind when we're trying to hold a lead. Those are the things that a coach is supposed to do, and looking at the results, I don't believe he has done that.

As I've said numerous times, I believe this "no talent" line is becoming a crutch for people to lean on. DeBoer has made mistakes and they constantly seem to get swept under the rug.
So you think this team has talent and don't mention any other mistakes except for the blown leads...

RainingRats is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:29 PM
  #16
Desert Panther
Resident Lurker
 
Desert Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Frisco, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 2,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
It's not Gord's system. Gord has just made it more aggressive or at least tried.

As for Matthias. Kid is given a chance on top 2 lines plays a good game yet the next game he's demoted to 4th line?

Yes timeouts are valuable but PD doesn't use them much at all. How many times have you seen other coaches use timeouts to get there group back together or give them somekinda talk about WTF is going wrong. Against us alone it happens many times. Sure there the tv commercials but still you lose how many now 6-7 2-3 goal leads in a month and no time outs?
And the "system" has worked well. Look at the numbers. We're the only team in the EC that is above zero in terms of the GF and GA that is out of the playoffs (tells me we're missing "timely" goals more than anything). Shots per game is down to 32.4 from 34.0 last year and 34.5 the year before.

Matthias is young. He's still learning. He's done well so far, but he has to outperform the guys in front of him. Right now, the top 6 is crowded based on their play. I'm not worried about his development. He'll be there in the end.

Again, the TOs is just a difference of opinion I think. It's tough to lose leads like this, but that's where the leadership on the ice comes into play. It's not solely on the coaching staff's shoulders. It comes down to we really don't have "that guy" on the roster.

Desert Panther is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:30 PM
  #17
panthersfan751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
So you think this team has talent and don't mention any other mistakes except for the blown leads...
I certainly think our talent level is lower than most teams, I don't think any Panther fan disputes that. We still have NHL players though and NHL players should be able to hold multi-goal leads in the 2nd and 3rd period. The fact that the trend just continues game after game makes me wonder what DeBoer is doing to try and change it.

panthersfan751 is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:41 PM
  #18
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I agree that PP is a major cause of use not being in the 8th seed or better. But we'd be even worse if our 5 on 5 play wasn't good, our team defense unreliable, and our PK being average or below average. You can't ignore the positives he's brought.
The 5 on 5 is a great point and ill stipulate we played awesome and I give PD credit for that accordingly. In fact the fans in our section wanted to know if we could decline penalties against us

Then came this rash of blown leads. Some of those goals are even strength. It is a quite disturbing trend. Combined with the horrific PP PD bears some responsibilityfor this lethal combination.
PD could move on and do well at the next train station. I simply conclude he has not done close enough to warrant a new contract here. IMHO.

adam graves is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:46 PM
  #19
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I certainly think our talent level is lower than most teams, I don't think any Panther fan disputes that. We still have NHL players though and NHL players should be able to hold multi-goal leads in the 2nd and 3rd period. The fact that the trend just continues game after game makes me wonder what DeBoer is doing to try and change it.
Well said and furthermore Im not so sure we arent average talent level, somewhere between 14th- 18th. But that is extremely subjective.

adam graves is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 12:59 PM
  #20
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
And the "system" has worked well. Look at the numbers. We're the only team in the EC that is above zero in terms of the GF and GA that is out of the playoffs (tells me we're missing "timely" goals more than anything). Shots per game is down to 32.4 from 34.0 last year and 34.5 the year before.

Matthias is young. He's still learning. He's done well so far, but he has to outperform the guys in front of him. Right now, the top 6 is crowded based on their play. I'm not worried about his development. He'll be there in the end.

Again, the TOs is just a difference of opinion I think. It's tough to lose leads like this, but that's where the leadership on the ice comes into play. It's not solely on the coaching staff's shoulders. It comes down to we really don't have "that guy" on the roster.
interesting... so this big change, kicking kitchen to the curb has resulted in a whopping 1.6 SOG/game reduction! lol. and that number has been going steadily up, btw. i'll repeat myself, at the risk of being boring - systems don't win games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I certainly think our talent level is lower than most teams, I don't think any Panther fan disputes that. We still have NHL players though and NHL players should be able to hold multi-goal leads in the 2nd and 3rd period. The fact that the trend just continues game after game makes me wonder what DeBoer is doing to try and change it.
so... why do teams, including the stanley cup champions blow leads every week? and what is the magic spell you suggest he use that can make confidence appear out of nowhere? i ask because i'm sure every coach on the face of the earth would like to know.

zeroG is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 01:18 PM
  #21
Desert Panther
Resident Lurker
 
Desert Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Frisco, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 2,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
interesting... so this big change, kicking kitchen to the curb has resulted in a whopping 1.6 SOG/game reduction! lol. and that number has been going steadily up, btw. i'll repeat myself, at the risk of being boring - systems don't win games.
Never said it was the only contribution, zeroG (and the 1.6 SOG/game you sneeze at is approximately 5% .. I'll take a 5% reduction in shots on goal in a single year). I've never been one of the ones harping on Kitchen getting the axe. I'm simply pointing out one aspect of improvement.

And I know that "systems don't win games" but a system does set a structure for execution (e.g., playing an "umbrella" on the PP vs not). Players still need to do all the little things they've had drilled into their heads since playing as youngsters, but a system give them a structure to execute that. (I know I'm not explaining this very well. )

Desert Panther is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 01:21 PM
  #22
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post

what is the magic spell you suggest he use that can make confidence appear out of nowhere? i ask because i'm sure every coach on the face of the earth would like to know.
That is EXACTLY what a coach gets paid to do. Some are better then others.


Last edited by adam graves: 01-12-2011 at 01:42 PM.
adam graves is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 02:18 PM
  #23
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
Never said it was the only contribution, zeroG (and the 1.6 SOG/game you sneeze at is approximately 5% .. I'll take a 5% reduction in shots on goal in a single year). I've never been one of the ones harping on Kitchen getting the axe. I'm simply pointing out one aspect of improvement.
first of all, the number is going up - we were up at the top the first few weeks of the season and everyone was going bonkers about how great a job murph was doing. so we can wait and see what it is at the end of the year and make a final determination regarding what we're calling "improvement". that still doesn't really work for me though. i'll stick to my guns and my early observations - shots are down slightly because, overall, there's been a better commitment to team defense, to the forecheck and better execution in our end, and that's not the result of a new defensive "system".

Quote:
And I know that "systems don't win games" but a system does set a structure for execution (e.g., playing an "umbrella" on the PP vs not). Players still need to do all the little things they've had drilled into their heads since playing as youngsters, but a system give them a structure to execute that. (I know I'm not explaining this very well. )
this is exactly right. and there is more than one winning system. in fact, just about ANY system can and has been used to win games as long as the system utilizes their strengths and the players buy in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Cutting through your sarcasm, that is EXACTLY what a cocah gets paid to do. Some are better then others.
partially true but way oversimplified.

they try like the dickens but even the best will openly admit there is no secret, which is what the poster was suggesting ("what is pete doing to change this!?"). the reality is that these types of cases (losing streaks, coughing up leads, scoring droughts) are the most difficult and confounding for coaches because they most often cannot be corrected by a strategic or tactical change. just watch boudreau and mcphee (heck even the players) struggle to make sense of the losing streak in the 24/7 series.

a coach on his game will have his finger on the team's pulse and is able to keep them in the right frame of mind to compete every night. as far as i'm concerned, pete's done that. when you hit those slides, NO coach has a magic spell to cast, even the best. they have their tricks for trying to jumpstart the team but there is no magic. sorry.

over time, track records suggest which coaches have better "tricks" up their sleeves and have a better, more consistent handle on their team's psyche. 2.5 years in this **** is not nearly enough to really judge pete. and still, some coaches with a good track record just lose their touch, their patience, etc. and what worked for them in the past no longer works. likewise, a coach who's struggled might come into a new situation and really jive with the team dynamic and be able to push all the right buttons. there's simply no easy answer; no guarantee. as far as i'm concerned, pete's shown he's as good as many other coaches in most areas. he's articulate, knowledgable. most importantly, he seems to be a positive guy. he's made mistakes but every coach does, even successful veterans. it's part of the game.

zeroG is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 03:00 PM
  #24
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 27,035
vCash: 500
No, I don't think for a second that DeBoer is THE problem, and I do think he's done a lot with what he has, but I completely agree with Mogo below. (Well, other than the vocal leader thing, I don't want a Tortorella here).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
Why I hate DeBoer

- He never uses timeouts when everything goes crappers
- He has no cure for us when we start playing like crap during a game
- He's a silent guy, I want a vocal coach(leader), he never shows emotions
- The way he plays our youngsters (expecially Matthias)
- Keeping Hulton around
- Using the same damn group on the PP all season long not giving Matthias, Dadonov or anyone else a chance on the PP
- The accountability BS
- Riding Vokoun no mather how much he sucks the night before (read above)
- Doesn't know/want to use a an enforcer
- Collapsing tactic. I hate it.
- Were way too passive most of the time (collapsing tactic)

Just a few that came to mind

__________________
So you're saying there's a chance!
Laus723 is offline  
Old
01-12-2011, 03:40 PM
  #25
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post

they try like the dickens but even the best will openly admit there is no secret, which is what the poster was suggesting ("what is pete doing to change this!?"). the reality is that these types of cases (losing streaks, coughing up leads, scoring droughts) are the most difficult and confounding for coaches because they most often cannot be corrected by a strategic or tactical change. just watch boudreau and mcphee (heck even the players) struggle to make sense of the losing streak in the 24/7 series.

a coach on his game will have his finger on the team's pulse and is able to keep them in the right frame of mind to compete every night. as far as i'm concerned, pete's done that. when you hit those slides, NO coach has a magic spell to cast, even the best. they have their tricks for trying to jumpstart the team but there is no magic. sorry.

over time, track records suggest which coaches have better "tricks" up their sleeves and have a better, more consistent handle on their team's psyche. 2.5 years in this **** is not nearly enough to really judge pete. and still, some coaches with a good track record just lose their touch, their patience, etc. and what worked for them in the past no longer works. likewise, a coach who's struggled might come into a new situation and really jive with the team dynamic and be able to push all the right buttons. there's simply no easy answer; no guarantee. as far as i'm concerned, pete's shown he's as good as many other coaches in most areas. he's articulate, knowledgable. most importantly, he seems to be a positive guy. he's made mistakes but every coach does, even successful veterans. it's part of the game.
excellent response and appreciated, although i vehemently disagree. I have stated why so i wont regurgitate; suffice to say IMHO either he doesn't have the skill set yet or it doesn't fit here and its time, based on 2 consecutive losing seasons, a lack of pp, and ability to hold any lead, to as you would put it, to try another magician.

adam graves is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.