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Old
02-23-2011, 12:15 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
This canard again. The Heatley trade and Ehrhoff had nothing to do with each other. I'm surprised you believe they did.
It's true that Ehrhoff was unloaded to make room for Blake but, hypothetically, had the Sharks waived Cheechoo and not made the play for Heatley they would have been able to fit in both Ehrhoff and Blake's contracts.

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02-23-2011, 12:15 AM
  #902
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Wouldn't a team trying to get to the cap floor like his contract? High cap hit but he gets paid 8,6,5mil a season after this one.

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02-23-2011, 12:17 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Turnstyles View Post
Fair enough. It'll be interesting to see if DW is able to unload him without having to take much back in the way of a cap dump. IMO getting rid of Heatley and using his cap space and the space freed up by Wallin and Huskins' contract expirations on a speedy winger or two, a top-four defenseman like Tyutin and an extension for Niemi opens up the window again, at least for a few more years. They'd probably have to get rid of Mitchell and Nitty's contracts too but those will be easier than expunging Heatley.
Heatley is far from immovable. His contract is not ideal, but we aren't talking about Brian Campbell here. Even though he has struggled this season, Heatley remains one of the best goal-scoring wingers of his generation, and at age 30, he's not exactly old. He had a very strong season last year, and most people can chalk up his mediocre numbers this year to it simply being an inexplicably bad offensive season for Joe Thornton. As Thornton goes, so do his wingers, whether it be Heatley, Marleau, or Setoguchi. Unless the Sharks can find a legitimate return, it would be unwise to deal Heatley. If they can get a young top four defenseman, I would be all for it. Chances are, they can't. I will wait and see how the playoffs go before I decide about Heatley's importance to the team.

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02-23-2011, 12:19 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Turnstyles View Post
It's true that Ehrhoff was unloaded to make room for Blake but, hypothetically, had the Sharks waived Cheechoo and not made the play for Heatley they would have been able to fit in both Ehrhoff and Blake's contracts.
They had no intentions of keeping Ehrhoff for whatever reasons. People can complain all they want about that and have valid points, but it's obvious to me that he was not part of their plans.

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02-23-2011, 12:40 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
They had no intentions of keeping Ehrhoff for whatever reasons. People can complain all they want about that and have valid points, but it's obvious to me that he was not part of their plans.
I would agree with that. The fact they chose to trade him instead of other dmen or forwards, shows that he was quite low on their fave list. Who knows, maybe Error asked for the trade himself.

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02-23-2011, 02:11 AM
  #906
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The Heatley bashing is, in my opinion, so far over the top it's almost comical.

Seems like every year there has to be someone on the team for the forum whipping boys to get after. Last year it was Clowe and Hukins. This year it was Niemi to start and now Heatley. The number of "please take Heatley!" posts on the trade forums illustrates frustration, yes, but a lack of rational thinking.

Ovechkin (24), Kovalchuk (21), Semin (21), Kane (20), Eriksson (19)... it's not like his 20 goals are way out of proportion.

Wilson is clearly not going to deal him. As people have rightly pointed out, we struggled hugely for secondary scoring several playoffs in a row and Heatley was the decision to add to our scoring depth. Wilson won't erase that now - people should get behind the guy.

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02-23-2011, 02:13 AM
  #907
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I do agree that it is a little over the top but his effort is not the same as last year. He might be playing through injuries but his defensive coverage has been terrible and some offensive decisions just don't make sense. Maybe due to the coaching staff because he didn't seem to have those problems last year.

I do think there's some sort of injury.

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02-23-2011, 02:18 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
I do agree that it is a little over the top but his effort is not the same as last year. He might be playing through injuries but his defensive coverage has been terrible and some offensive decisions just don't make sense. Maybe due to the coaching staff because he didn't seem to have those problems last year.

I do think there's some sort of injury.
This post comes with the LZ seal of approval

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02-23-2011, 02:22 AM
  #909
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Finally. It's been a while.

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02-23-2011, 03:04 AM
  #910
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If rather him just be a defensive liability and just sit in the slot and wait for a one timer.

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02-23-2011, 08:42 AM
  #911
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barring injuries, no more trades.

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02-23-2011, 08:46 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Le Rosbeef View Post
The Heatley bashing is, in my opinion, so far over the top it's almost comical.

Seems like every year there has to be someone on the team for the forum whipping boys to get after. Last year it was Clowe and Hukins. This year it was Niemi to start and now Heatley. The number of "please take Heatley!" posts on the trade forums illustrates frustration, yes, but a lack of rational thinking.

Ovechkin (24), Kovalchuk (21), Semin (21), Kane (20), Eriksson (19)... it's not like his 20 goals are way out of proportion.

Wilson is clearly not going to deal him. As people have rightly pointed out, we struggled hugely for secondary scoring several playoffs in a row and Heatley was the decision to add to our scoring depth. Wilson won't erase that now - people should get behind the guy.
I was always against the Heatley acquisition. I'll take Michalek at a 4.5mil cap hit over Heatley at 7.5 any day.

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02-23-2011, 09:02 AM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Rosbeef View Post
The Heatley bashing is, in my opinion, so far over the top it's almost comical.

Seems like every year there has to be someone on the team for the forum whipping boys to get after. Last year it was Clowe and Hukins. This year it was Niemi to start and now Heatley. The number of "please take Heatley!" posts on the trade forums illustrates frustration, yes, but a lack of rational thinking.

Ovechkin (24), Kovalchuk (21), Semin (21), Kane (20), Eriksson (19)... it's not like his 20 goals are way out of proportion.

Wilson is clearly not going to deal him. As people have rightly pointed out, we struggled hugely for secondary scoring several playoffs in a row and Heatley was the decision to add to our scoring depth. Wilson won't erase that now - people should get behind the guy.
Heatley is not 'depth' dude. He's the highest paid player on the team. Are you really ok with spending what we are on 4 players? Because eventually it is going to come at the cost of some of our young guys. Who would you rather see moved instead of Heatley? Please elaborate on how that will be better for the team than moving a guy who has the biggest cap hit and makes the least effort.

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02-23-2011, 09:49 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Heatley is not 'depth' dude. He's the highest paid player on the team. Are you really ok with spending what we are on 4 players? Because eventually it is going to come at the cost of some of our young guys. Who would you rather see moved instead of Heatley? Please elaborate on how that will be better for the team than moving a guy who has the biggest cap hit and makes the least effort.
Ok I'll address some of your points... "dude"

Firstly, re-read what I wrote.

Did I say Dany Heatley personally was 'depth'? No, I said Wilson wanted to add to our scoring depth, meaning he wanted to add more guys who were a known threat to score. We were anemic in secondary scoring in a few playoff outings - Heatley's addition increased the depth of our scoring. It's not that hard to understand, surely. His status amongst our forwards has always been at the top end.

As for me being "ok" about what we're spending on 4 players, frankly that's none of my business. The only people that have the right to determine if they're "ok" with that are the owners and the GM. I'm a fan and don't get to make these types of calls, thankfully.

When you say Heatley is going to eventually cost some of the younger guys, I'd just personally say that's a victim of the cap system and the team's success. We're not the only ones, nor will we be the last. Right now though, his scoring presence I like and if that gives us a shot at the cup right now, so be it. I feel if we trade Dany Heatley now, we lessen our chances, that's all. A lot of this is cyclical and if I was asked if instead I'd prefer a nice, neat cap situation with a terrible product on the ice, I know what my answer would be. I'm not convinced you can have a perfect calm with this one.

As for almost implying his effort is a good reason to trade him, do you buy a new water cooler for the office the second a the paper cup holder breaks? I don't think the means justify the end - effort should be addressed inside the locker room, not by dealing him. But in any case, Wilson won't be dealing him pure and simple - people who hang their hats on the business decisions they make are not the type to renege their earlier convictions.

The sooner the Heatley trade talk ends, the better if you ask me. While we are competitive, he will be a part of it. If we flunk and he wants out or we reach the end of his contract, that might warrant a different path but for now, it won't. I'd encourage those of you with personal dislikes to get behind and support the guy but that might be wishful thinking as you'd all have nobody to moan about. As far as I can see, that's what a lot of Sharks fans just enjoy doing the most...


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02-23-2011, 10:03 AM
  #915
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On top of everthing Le Rosbeef just mentioned, the cap will be going up and the Sharks, just like every other "contender" will need young cheap (read ELC) talent to step into prominent roles. I'm also tiring of the bashing on Heatley, especially talk of his lack of effort and personality issues. Unless you know him, those aren't really things anyone outside of that locker room know for a fact.

While I agree he's been sub par this year, he's still 2nd on the team in scoring and if you check his corsi stats, he's far from the biggest liabilty on the ice. There's also no reason he won't turn it around.

HB, I understand that you were never happy w/ the way he meshed with the team, but he's here and it not likely he's going to be traded anywhere anytime soon.

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02-23-2011, 10:05 AM
  #916
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Heatley+Mitchell+Moore to the Rags for Gaborik+Gilroy

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02-23-2011, 10:16 AM
  #917
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I think its pretty safe to say Heatley is not going anywhere until his contract expires, or this team implodes one day and DW sells off everything.

And, Its pretty obvious Heatley is not unhappy here as well.

Can we let it go, and focus on whats actually going on with the Sharks, like getting a goalie, or adding some depth in D.....

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02-23-2011, 10:39 AM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Le Rosbeef View Post
Ok I'll address some of your points... "dude"

Firstly, re-read what I wrote.

Did I say Dany Heatley personally was 'depth'? No, I said Wilson wanted to add to our scoring depth, meaning he wanted to add more guys who were a known threat to score. We were anemic in secondary scoring in a few playoff outings - Heatley's addition increased the depth of our scoring. It's not that hard to understand, surely. His status amongst our forwards has always been at the top end.

As for me being "ok" about what we're spending on 4 players, frankly that's none of my business. The only people that have the right to determine if they're "ok" with that are the owners and the GM. I'm a fan and don't get to make these types of calls, thankfully.

When you say Heatley is going to eventually cost some of the younger guys, I'd just personally say that's a victim of the cap system and the team's success. We're not the only ones, nor will we be the last. Right now though, his scoring presence I like and if that gives us a shot at the cup right now, so be it. I feel if we trade Dany Heatley now, we lessen our chances, that's all. A lot of this is cyclical and if I was asked if instead I'd prefer a nice, neat cap situation with a terrible product on the ice, I know what my answer would be. I'm not convinced you can have a perfect calm with this one.

As for almost implying his effort is a good reason to trade him, do you buy a new water cooler for the office the second a the paper cup holder breaks? I don't think the means justify the end - effort should be addressed inside the locker room, not by dealing him. But in any case, Wilson won't be dealing him pure and simple - people who hang their hats on the business decisions they make are not the type to renege their earlier convictions.

The sooner the Heatley trade talk ends, the better if you ask me. While we are competitive, he will be a part of it. If we flunk and he wants out or we reach the end of his contract, that might warrant a different path but for now, it won't. I'd encourage those of you with personal dislikes to get behind and support the guy but that might be wishful thinking as you'd all have nobody to moan about. As far as I can see, that's what a lot of Sharks fans just enjoy doing the most...
There is a big difference between what I expect to happen, and what I think should happen. What it sounds like your saying is that I should only attempt to predict the future (good luck with that) instead of stating my opinion about what would be best for this team. Do I think DW is going to trade Heatley? Not really. I don't think it's totally out of the question as you seem to, but I do think it's unlikely. Do I think trading Heatley would be best for this team? ABSOLUTELY. DW's pride does not factor into my opinions.

If you think Heatley belongs here and is a positive force on this team, make your points about that. I think it was a mistake from the get-go, have never wavered in that opinion, and the only person that is going to change my mind about that is Heatley.


Last edited by SpinTheBlackCircle: 02-23-2011 at 10:50 AM. Reason: comment not needed
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02-23-2011, 10:49 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
On top of everthing Le Rosbeef just mentioned, the cap will be going up and the Sharks, just like every other "contender" will need young cheap (read ELC) talent to step into prominent roles. I'm also tiring of the bashing on Heatley, especially talk of his lack of effort and personality issues. Unless you know him, those aren't really things anyone outside of that locker room know for a fact.

While I agree he's been sub par this year, he's still 2nd on the team in scoring and if you check his corsi stats, he's far from the biggest liabilty on the ice. There's also no reason he won't turn it around.

HB, I understand that you were never happy w/ the way he meshed with the team, but he's here and it not likely he's going to be traded anywhere anytime soon.
I am not one who thinks that DW will trade Heatley. However, if any of the big 3 are in the doghouse, it is Heatley. That is by the way the coaches are playing him. From his play, I think some of his stats are misleading. Check the zone finishes; the puck is going the other way on Heatley more than any other forward with the exception of McGinn. He is being pulled off the ice defensively and causing the Sharks to go on the defensive more than Marleau and JT. His penalties drawn/taken is not so good either for someone of his caliber.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...1+62+64+65+66#

In the past, before coming to the Sharks, he has had some questionable statements regarding teamsmanship. I haven't heard anything recently. His use and response hasn't been great.

I was against the trade when it was made. I still do not favor it although I acknowledge that the Sharks did better last year. It remains to be seen going forward.

In terms of what he does, he is having his worst year since the beginning of his career. In terms of what I see on ice, I don't see anything to incline me to believe that he will substantially turn it around. This has been going on since he was "injured" last year. Gradually speed is becoming more of a prerequisite for players and that isn't his forte. And, he is getting caught defensively because of it. The penalties taken are icing on the cake, and I really don't want the coaches going catatonic over the issue. They have changed his assignments and it is clearly a message. The next message may be to pull him off the ice at the end of tight games; they haven't done that yet. With the salary distribution, they can't really afford to have him be a non-performing asset. They are in a position where they almost have to give him chances without limit. It doesn't bother me so much when others react to the situation when asking for trade because at a lesser salary and absolutely no clause, that is almost exactly what would put him at the forefront of the trade agenda.

In terms of his effect in the playoffs, he has done what he did in the Ottawa run. The one-timers are not there in the playoffs. Scoring is done through creating one's own space. He doesn't have the dangle or the speed or the moves to do that. He does create assists with incredibly good hands around the net. If DW was looking specifically for playoff goals, DH was not the answer, injury or no injury. DW needs to look at guys like Seto, Clowe, Pavs, Couture and Marleau for putting the puck in the net. If they are to do well in the playoffs with Heatley, they need to find an optimal way to use his offensive skills and to protect against his lack of defense.

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02-23-2011, 10:50 AM
  #920
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
I think its pretty safe to say Heatley is not going anywhere until his contract expires, or this team implodes one day and DW sells off everything.

And, Its pretty obvious Heatley is not unhappy here as well.

Can we let it go, and focus on whats actually going on with the Sharks, like getting a goalie, or adding some depth in D.....
Did I miss something here?

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02-23-2011, 10:50 AM
  #921
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If you think Heatley belongs here and is a positive force on this team, make your points about that. I think it was a mistake from the get-go, have never wavered in that opinion, and the only person that is going to change my mind about that is Heatley.
Ok, so what would Heatley need to do to justify you to change your mind? Honestly?

The way you post about him you come across with serious prejudice that, if you'll excuse my cynicism, I don't think you'll ever allow to change your mind.

Guy has 130 points in 143 games with the Sharks and 59 goals. People can rag on him all they like but there aren't too many better options out there (that were available) that have done what he has.

Not one ounce of disapproval will change what happened in the past. Isn't it time to move on rather than remain bitter about what could or should have been?

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02-23-2011, 10:54 AM
  #922
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In terms of his effect in the playoffs, he has done what he did in the Ottawa run. The one-timers are not there in the playoffs. Scoring is done through creating one's own space. He doesn't have the dangle or the speed or the moves to do that. He does create assists with incredibly good hands around the net. If DW was looking specifically for playoff goals, DH was not the answer, injury or no injury. DW needs to look at guys like Seto, Clowe, Pavs, Couture and Marleau for putting the puck in the net. If they are to do well in the playoffs with Heatley, they need to find an optimal way to use his offensive skills and to protect against his lack of defense.
If he can get to the net, he will be perfect in the playoffs. Score the dirty goals and call it a day. The issue with him is, how is he going to get to the net if he cant pick up his feet.

Drew even blasted him on air last game. Stated there was something wrong, heater hasnt even been able to get his 1 timers off this season. Honestly, I think Pattys year last season shielded him, gave him space and allowed him to score. Without Patty putting up big numbers, the D doesnt have to give up the space he needs. Regardless, hes flubbing a TON of opportunities. That in itself has to stop, regarldess if the puck goes in or not he cant be flubbing his chances like he is, getting the shot off will create other opportunities.

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02-23-2011, 10:59 AM
  #923
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Sabres fan coming in peace ....
Would the Sharks be interested in Tim Connolly and/or Jochen Hecht? AHL prospects?
If so, what would the Shark give back?
Sabres fans are hunting for a 1st/2nd line center

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02-23-2011, 11:12 AM
  #924
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I am not one who thinks that DW will trade Heatley. However, if any of the big 3 are in the doghouse, it is Heatley. That is by the way the coaches are playing him. From his play, I think some of his stats are misleading. Check the zone finishes; the puck is going the other way on Heatley more than any other forward with the exception of McGinn. He is being pulled off the ice defensively and causing the Sharks to go on the defensive more than Marleau and JT. His penalties drawn/taken is not so good either for someone of his caliber.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...1+62+64+65+66#

In the past, before coming to the Sharks, he has had some questionable statements regarding teamsmanship. I haven't heard anything recently. His use and response hasn't been great.

I was against the trade when it was made. I still do not favor it although I acknowledge that the Sharks did better last year. It remains to be seen going forward.

In terms of what he does, he is having his worst year since the beginning of his career. In terms of what I see on ice, I don't see anything to incline me to believe that he will substantially turn it around. This has been going on since he was "injured" last year. Gradually speed is becoming more of a prerequisite for players and that isn't his forte. And, he is getting caught defensively because of it. The penalties taken are icing on the cake, and I really don't want the coaches going catatonic over the issue. They have changed his assignments and it is clearly a message. The next message may be to pull him off the ice at the end of tight games; they haven't done that yet. With the salary distribution, they can't really afford to have him be a non-performing asset. They are in a position where they almost have to give him chances without limit. It doesn't bother me so much when others react to the situation when asking for trade because at a lesser salary and absolutely no clause, that is almost exactly what would put him at the forefront of the trade agenda.

In terms of his effect in the playoffs, he has done what he did in the Ottawa run. The one-timers are not there in the playoffs. Scoring is done through creating one's own space. He doesn't have the dangle or the speed or the moves to do that. He does create assists with incredibly good hands around the net. If DW was looking specifically for playoff goals, DH was not the answer, injury or no injury. DW needs to look at guys like Seto, Clowe, Pavs, Couture and Marleau for putting the puck in the net. If they are to do well in the playoffs with Heatley, they need to find an optimal way to use his offensive skills and to protect against his lack of defense.
Not sure why you put injury in quotes, pretty sure a torn groin is an injury...
Anyhow, I wasn't happy with the trade either and am not trying to tell anyone he's playing up to his salary...or even deserving of the minutes he's getting.

My point was that he's still putting up points and seeing as all I have to go on is what comes out in the media, he hasn't been an issue in the locker room. I'm also of the opinion that the fact he is less than ok defensively isn't surprising. Guy should NOT be killing penalties! But, ES, his qualcomp and corsi stats are average.

I completely agree w/ your point about his salary and being a "non performing asset"...but at this point this year, we have a LOT of salary tied up in guys having really, really sub par years, it's not just Heatley.

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02-23-2011, 11:13 AM
  #925
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Sabres fan coming in peace ....
Would the Sharks be interested in Tim Connolly and/or Jochen Hecht? AHL prospects?
If so, what would the Shark give back?
Sabres fans are hunting for a 1st/2nd line center
I'd be interested in Hecht if he didn't have a year left on his deal. No interest in Connolly. Sharks aren't looking to deal Thornton, Pavelski or Couture unless Myers is coming the other way.

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