Does he back up Miller next near and then get more starts and perhaps traded?
Does he wait all the way until Miller is contract is up and then become our starter (if miller isn't resigned)?
Does Miller get traded and Enroth/another young goalie become a starting tandem?
Is he traded this year in a package for something (perhaps a center)?
2011-2012 plays 14-18 games, adjusts to NHL life.
2012-2013 plays 18-25 more comfortable, puts up legit back up numbers
2013-2014 Millers final year, Enroth now pushing Miller for starts (think Hiller/Giggy)
2015-2024 Sabres All-Star goalie for the next decade.
By himself, maybe not. Throw him in a package and he has plenty of value.
Package? Again, on his own he has very little value -- nearly everyone has a good goaltending prospect and at this point, that is all he is. Hell, there are plenty of NHL-level retreads out there that teams will go to first before trying on someone else's prospect tender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH
throw in the right package and you can trade Miller and Lalime, too
Basically.
Until Enroth establishes himself as an NHLer, and a good NHLer at that, he's not worth much. I doubt he would even come close to a pick at his original draft position at this point. Goaltenders are not a hot commodity.
2011-2012 plays 14-18 games, adjusts to NHL life.
2012-2013 plays 18-25 more comfortable, puts up legit back up numbers
2013-2014 Millers final year, Enroth now pushing Miller for starts (think Hiller/Giggy)
2015-2024 Sabres All-Star goalie for the next decade.
_______ <---- insert backup goalie here.
Ruff will never never never play a backup goalie 25 game a year. Not as long as a healthy Miller is on the team.
He is very content with giving a backup 10-15 games a year max.
I think he SHOULD play backups 20 games a year, but Ruff has "better" ideas.
Besides the Biron/Miller year was there ever a year that a backup goalie got over 15 games in a season, with a healthy starter with Ruff as coach?
_______ <---- insert backup goalie here.
Ruff will never never never play a backup goalie 25 game a year. Not as long as a healthy Miller is on the team.
He is very content with giving a backup 10-15 games a year max.
I think he SHOULD play backups 20 games a year, but Ruff has "better" ideas.
Besides the Biron/Miller year was there ever a year that a backup goalie got over 15 games in a season, with a healthy starter with Ruff as coach?
Top goalie salaries - 2010
Luongo - $10 Million
Lundqvist - $7.75 million
Giguere - $7 million
Miller - $6.25 million
Ward - $6 million
Backstrom - $6 million
Kiprusoff - $5.83 million
Vokoun - $5.7 million
Fleury - $5.5 million
Starts in 2009-2010
Luongo - 67
Lundqvist - 73
Giguere - 35
Miller - 69
Ward - 47 (68 in 08-09, 69 in 07-08)
Backstrom - 60 (71 in 08-09)
Kiprusoff - 73
Vokoun - 63
Fleury - 67
It's really not Lindy overstarting Miller...every team that blows the wad on a bigtime goalie shows the tendency to ride him into the ground. Giguere is the only obvious deviation from this, and his groin has had him on the sidelines more often than not for the last 15 months. Miller's starts per season are totally in line with a top shelf goaltender making a top shelf salary.
I still wish we would've traded for Greiss last off-season, and used him for the next two years while Enroth continues to develop. Greiss was a fairly solid backup for Nabokov in San Jose, but the Sharks ended up loaning him to Europe or whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality
he stays
2011-2012 plays 14-18 games, adjusts to NHL life.
2012-2013 plays 18-25 more comfortable, puts up legit back up numbers
2013-2014 Millers final year, Enroth now pushing Miller for starts (think Hiller/Giggy)
2015-2024 Sabres All-Star goalie for the next decade.
in a perfect world
I don't think Enroth will ever be a noteworthy starter in the NHL, but I guess anything could happen.
I still wish we would've traded for Greiss last off-season, and used him for the next two years while Enroth continues to develop. Greiss was a fairly solid backup for Nabokov in San Jose, but the Sharks ended up loaning him to Europe or whatever.
I don't think Enroth will ever be a noteworthy starter in the NHL, but I guess anything could happen.
why is that?
i was leaning that way last year, but i thought he looked light years better stylistically/positionally in his brief call up this season. while i'm not the biggest fan of 'small' goalies, they need to be ON every night, i like Jhonas' quickness and ability to square to the puck. i'm pretty optimistic with him.
and i disagree with everyone saying he wouldnt garner much of a return in a trade...'everyone has an Enroth' simply isnt true...he's probably still top 5 as far as goalie prospects go and he comes fully developed...thats worth a lot compared to a project.
I would love to bring in someone like Greiss next year and let him and Enroth battle it out, the loser can go to Portland. I think after this year, Enroth needs more NHL-experience to further develop, if he can't win this ice-time against a journeyman-backup like Greiss (who i really like), he doesn't deserve it. This would also give us the opportunity to call Enroth up for longer stretches but still give him a lot of starts in Portland, if need be.
i was leaning that way last year, but i thought he looked light years better stylistically/positionally in his brief call up this season. while i'm not the biggest fan of 'small' goalies, they need to be ON every night, i like Jhonas' quickness and ability to square to the puck. i'm pretty optimistic with him.
and i disagree with everyone saying he wouldnt garner much of a return in a trade...'everyone has an Enroth' simply isnt true...he's probably still top 5 as far as goalie prospects go and he comes fully developed...thats worth a lot compared to a project.
Post-lockout, goaltenders are not hot commodities in trade. They do not yield much in terms of talent in trade -- salary dumps (Giguere), waivers (Bryzgalov), and mid-round draft picks (Tellqvist) are the types of deals they are involved in. He does not have that much value in trade. Period.
And yes, most teams either have a decent starter or a young backup or a prospect of equal or greater value already in their system. He has very little value until he starts putting up wins at the NHL level.
I would love to bring in someone like Greiss next year and let him and Enroth battle it out, the loser can go to Portland. I think after this year, Enroth needs more NHL-experience to further develop, if he can't win this ice-time against a journeyman-backup like Greiss (who i really like), he doesn't deserve it. This would also give us the opportunity to call Enroth up for longer stretches but still give him a lot of starts in Portland, if need be.
why would Greiss come back to NA,Oc? Portland fans see the Sharks prospects consistently just as much as they've seen Jhonas play against them, and w/ Stalock being the immediate future there in Worcester(based off his status)....
look at the end of last season once Jhonas went down, and basically it was Lamoureaux who handled the balance of that workload and what exactly did that get JP? A THANKS for your service but we're going w/ Leggio instead...
not to mention Chad Ford and Beau Erickson who were available at that time...
why would Greiss come back to NA,Oc? Portland fans see the Sharks prospects consistently just as much as they've seen Jhonas play against them, and w/ Stalock being the immediate future there in Worcester(based off his status)....
look at the end of last season once Jhonas went down, and basically it was Lamoureaux who handled the balance of that workload and what exactly did that get JP? A THANKS for your service but we're going w/ Leggio instead...
not to mention Chad Ford and Beau Erickson who were available at that time...
I'm pretty sure he wants to come back to NA and not stay somewhere in Europe, be it SEL oder DEL. If he has a legitimate shot at a back-up-position, why not, i think he would at least be open to try-out at camp. He is far from a failed prospect, he was just a victim of the market situation (too many goalies), but actually played a pretty good year behind Nabby.
I'm pretty sure he wants to come back to NA and not stay somewhere in Europe, be it SEL oder DEL. If he has a legitimate shot at a back-up-position, why not, i think he would at least be open to try-out at camp. He is far from a failed prospect, he was just a victim of the market situation (too many goalies), but actually played a pretty good year behind Nabby.
SORRY, Portland wanted Chad Ford out of the Capitals system and were working diligently to get him as the backup, Oc, or so the story went in the offseason....
Buffalo gets Leggio instead..... if Greiss wanted to then why isn't he still over here.... and I doubt it's the market, it's no one needs a goalie right now, I mean look at Nabokov, he leaves and got released from his contract depending on which spin you want to believe..... 3 teams had interest and Tampa was the supposed front-runner but what does Tampa do: trades for Roloson....
Stalock had passed Greiss as the future successor to Nabokov and now SJ has Niittymaki & Niemi their tandem, and Niemi's off a Stanley Cup.
it's like saying Leggio's the higher prospect/upside than Jhonas does, but do you see Leggio getting the call when Miller goes down, no, because that's how Enroth is the next Miller......
SORRY, Portland wanted Chad Ford out of the Capitals system and were working diligently to get him as the backup, Oc, or so the story went in the offseason....
Buffalo gets Leggio instead..... if Greiss wanted to then why isn't he still over here.... and I doubt it's the market, it's no one needs a goalie right now, I mean look at Nabokov, he leaves and got released from his contract depending on which spin you want to believe..... 3 teams had interest and Tampa was the supposed front-runner but what does Tampa do: trades for Roloson....
Stalock had passed Greiss as the future successor to Nabokov and now SJ has Niittymaki & Niemi their tandem, and Niemi's off a Stanley Cup.
it's like saying Leggio's the higher prospect/upside than Jhonas does, but do you see Leggio getting the call when Miller goes down, no, because that's how Enroth is the next Miller......
Greiss is under contract with SJ and when he was put on waivers, pretty much every goalie-pairing in the league was set. He won't come back this season, that's why i'm talking about next. No place for him in San José, but i'm sure he would give it another ty here at an Lalime-like salary. I don't see what would be the problem about him and Enroth battling out who will be the backup.
What do you expect instead? We don't sign another NHL-goalie and promote Enroth to the NHL immediately while only signing two guys for Portland? We sign another proven back-up for about 1 mill. $ and let Enroth battle it our against him?
I don't quite get what you mean with the last part of your post... I'm not suggesting to put Greiss or Leggio or anyone ahead of Jhonas. I'm just talking about bringing in a cheap alternative that still has some upside and let Jhonas earn playing time. If he couldn't force himself into the team against Patrick Lalime and Thomas Greiss multiple years in a row, then Greiss is a very pleasant surprise, or Enroth just isn't good enough for a job in the NHL.
Greiss is under contract with SJ and when he was put on waivers, pretty much every goalie-pairing in the league was set. He won't come back this season, that's why i'm talking about next. No place for him in San José, but i'm sure he would give it another ty here at an Lalime-like salary. I don't see what would be the problem about him and Enroth battling out who will be the backup.
What do you expect instead? We don't sign another NHL-goalie and promote Enroth to the NHL immediately while only signing two guys for Portland? We sign another proven back-up for about 1 mill. $ and let Enroth battle it our against him?
I don't quite get what you mean with the last part of your post... I'm not suggesting to put Greiss or Leggio or anyone ahead of Jhonas. I'm just talking about bringing in a cheap alternative that still has some upside and let Jhonas earn playing time. If he couldn't force himself into the team against Patrick Lalime and Thomas Greiss multiple years in a row, then Greiss is a very pleasant surprise, or Enroth just isn't good enough for a job in the NHL.
the point is earlier this year Buffalo could've had retained Lamoureaux but opted for Leggio, and frankly, Greiss was horrible either in both San Jose and/or Worcester, Oc, SJ knew Greiss didn't or wouldn't work out there or they had decided he wasn't in their plans.... did you ever think Greiss bombed out that he wasn't even a starter in Worcester...
had Portland had a hand in selecting our players would we need prior approval from Buffalo to get players on a PTO, handcuffing both franchises, since we're not allowed to sign players not approved by Buffalo, when injuries strike (Parrish/Turnbull) HENCE why Petizian was summoned when Miller went down and Jhonas went up; why Leggio became the starter and why Gongalsky and Bowers have stuck in Portland over the last month... that's why the Checkers intern backed up Leggio that night in Charlotte until Petizian arrived.
again, that's like saying Leggio has greater potential to be a Sabre, BUT Jhonas has seen NHL Time.
the point is earlier this year Buffalo could've had retained Lamoureaux but opted for Leggio, and frankly, Greiss was horrible either in both San Jose and/or Worcester, Oc, SJ knew Greiss didn't or wouldn't work out there or they had decided he wasn't in their plans.... did you ever think Greiss bombed out that he wasn't even a starter in Worcester...
had Portland had a hand in selecting our players would we need prior approval from Buffalo to get players on a PTO, handcuffing both franchises, since we're not allowed to sign players not approved by Buffalo, when injuries strike (Parrish/Turnbull) HENCE why Petizian was summoned when Miller went down and Jhonas went up; why Leggio became the starter and why Gongalsky and Bowers have stuck in Portland over the last month... that's why the Checkers intern backed up Leggio that night in Charlotte until Petizian arrived.
again, that's like saying Leggio has greater potential to be a Sabre, BUT Jhonas has seen NHL Time.
Sorry, i just don't get your point. I never said that Greiss should play the Leggio/JPL-role nor that he has greater potential than Enroth. I just said that if Enroth wants to be a NHL-goalie, he has to be able to beat a guy like Greiss for the job. If he doesn't, give him another year in Portland with occasional call-ups because that's all he deserves then. I like Greiss but he sure isn't anything special, just a mediocre but still pretty young back-up. If Enroth can't beat him, then he has no business to be in the NHL.
That Greiss was horrible in SJ and not even a starter in Worcester is just wrong. There was no room for him, yes, but he was far from bad:
- 7-4-1 with a 0.912 Save Pct. and a GAA of 2,68 in his only season as a back-up so far.
- 57 starts in Worcester in 08-09 and 41 in 07-08, where he already was called up to SJ a few times.
Also, it wouldn't be Portland who signed Greiss, it would be Buffalo. The loser of the Enroth-Greiss-duel would then be assigned to Portland. It doesn't necessarily have to be Greiss either, there are some more tweener-goalies that could be used for that role. They would all be better than Lalime yet beatable for Enroth while still relatively young and cheap.
