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06-25-2004, 01:10 PM
  #26
dawgbone
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McPhee would be an outright idiot not to listen to offers.

He could make out like a bandit, much like the Nordiques did in the Lindros trade.

When you start trading a bunch of youngsters for one young player, it's a crapshoot, with the odds in favour of the guy giving up the one player.

Just for arguments sake, if the Oilers offered Brewer, Hemsky and both 1sts this year, Washington could end up with Brewer, Hemsky, Schremp and Zajac... now, imagine if all 3 live up to potential, McPhee could be sitting there with 4 future allstars... all for 1 player.

If he's not listening to offers for Ovechkin, he's an idiot, plain and simple...

So you better beleive he is listening to all kinds of offers.

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06-25-2004, 01:12 PM
  #27
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I have a question about the transfer fees. AO is under contract in Russia for next year. If someone doesn't bring him over until that contract is done are there still fees?

Cause to me once a contract is done he should be free to do as he pleases, shouldn't he? And with the likelyhood that there won't be a season next year shouldn't that negate the transfer fee argument?


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06-25-2004, 01:24 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Not at all. Dopita was bad but Oates taught soooo much to that team. His experience was invaluable. How many times did you see him moving players around on the ice before draws? Stolls faceoff % went from low 40's at the start of the year to (I think) mid 50s by the end earning my own name for him "The Faceoff Jedi".

Oates was a great player coach. True we could have used a bit more offense but it was hardly a horrible move.

In fact if we could get Oates back as an assistant coach I would be all over that. He had a great relationship with the kids out there.

Hell even vets like Cross benefited from him. His positioning on ice and before faceoff's improved dramatically over the year. And that was all Oates.

The Oates signing was huge waste of resources. Him being this mentor/teacher is a nice load of horsecrap fed to us my management ann media. Sports media personal like to chase cliches, like seagulls chasing a fat kid with french fries. "Oh he's a veteran on young, young team, he must be instilling wisdom" yeah just like they had Corson being this big mentor to Arnott untill they got into a fight over a 2nd assist. How about the time Glen Anderson came back to the team and the media had him written up as this "wisdom instiller" on the young team, that lasted about 25 days until they found Andy was A) washed up, B) flaky. The media is lazy and loves these cliche stories. Adam Oates was the worst forward on our roster last year, bar none. All he did was take up space, in fact he took up space so well, I wouldn't be suprised if he's an astrologer in retirement now. As much as I was dissapointed in Chimera's play last year I can understand his frustration level when he would have a decent game one night (skating, hitting and fighting) only to be removed from the lineup the next night because our roster was jammed up due to the inclusion of the slowest player to ever don Oiler silks. The signing of Oates accomplised nothing for this organization except the spending of limited resources and the regression of Jason Chimera.

If K-Lowe paid a million + for a roster player so he could teach our players faceoff positioning, then he needs to seriously evaluate the work of his coaches.

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06-25-2004, 01:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
. Adam Oates was the worst forward on our roster last year, bar none.
Whoa! Worse than the time Ferguson suited up on the wing?

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06-25-2004, 01:28 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
I have a question about the transfer fees. AO is under contract in Russia for next year. If someone doesn't bring him over until that contract is done are there still fees?

Cause to me once a contract is done he should be free to do as he pleases, shouldn't he? And with the likelyhood that there won't be a season next year shouldn't that negate the transfer fee argument?

I think you should look at it this way. Even if he is not under contract to a team, if you don't pay the Russian government a transfer fee, he will mysteriously be put in the army.

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06-25-2004, 01:45 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
The signing of Oates accomplised nothing for this organization except the spending of limited resources and the regression of Jason Chimera.

If K-Lowe paid a million + for a roster player so he could teach our players faceoff positioning, then he needs to seriously evaluate the work of his coaches.
How about the fact that both Stoll and Horcoff showed dramatic improvement in terms of their face-off winning %?

Also, when was the last time anyone on the Oilers coaching staff took a face-off in an NHL game? 8, 9 years?

The game has changed alot, and the Oilers had no one in the system who was even remotely close to being a good face-off guy in the NHL.

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06-25-2004, 01:54 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by thome_26
What deal has Lowe made that everybody was initially happy about and then it turned out bad?
Hmm, well I put the LOL and in there hoping nobody would take the remark too seriously. This was a joke. If its funny to anyone, its because it hits close to the truth. It just seemed to me that most deals had their detractors and supporters and as time went on both groups tended to drift towards the other side, at least somewhat.

I guess if the drift is mostly in one direction, we have a good idea who don't know how to evaluate deals?

Quote:
Anyways, back on topic....
Right, focus oilswell, focus. Well I would say that I don't like the idea of gambling on a guy like Ovenchicken (love that name butchering) because (a) it puts your eggs in one basket and (b) historically deals like this haven't worked out.

That said, I think this is a good gamble based on what I hear of Ovechkin. Basically all the truly great players are projected very early and according to what I've read he's got the goods, even the intangibles that guys like Daigle lacked. If you look at him as an upgrade to Hemsky, I don't find the price of Brewer plus a couple of 1sts to be too high: upgrading from a guy like Hemsky is really expensive. I guess it depends on how high you see the upsides of Hemsky, Brewer, and your 1sts. If it isn't that high, if Ovechkin is the guy, and if you truly believe deep down that the team can't do it without a really top-drawer talent: then you maybe bite the bullet.

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06-25-2004, 02:25 PM
  #33
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I'm of the belief that if an Ovechkin deal is there do it. We have a ton of quality players but no superstars. Brewer can be replaced, Wowitka, Lynch and Greene are supposedly ready. Semenov I think is ready for top 4 minutes. Brewer can be replaced. There's a whole thread on these boards about mediocrity, this might be the Oilers chance to escape that. You have to take risks to be successful. I think Ovechkin is definitely worth the big time risk.

And I'm not so sure they would sacrifice the playoffs. Hemsky was a non-factor this year, Salo and his brutal play of last season is gone. On defense Edmonton will still have Smith, Staois, Semenov, Ulanov, Bergeron, Cross, Wowitka and Lynch. That's not that bad of a defense corps.

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06-25-2004, 02:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
The Oates signing was huge waste of resources. Him being this mentor/teacher is a nice load of horsecrap fed to us my management ann media. Sports media personal like to chase cliches, like seagulls chasing a fat kid with french fries. "Oh he's a veteran on young, young team, he must be instilling wisdom" yeah just like they had Corson being this big mentor to Arnott untill they got into a fight over a 2nd assist. How about the time Glen Anderson came back to the team and the media had him written up as this "wisdom instiller" on the young team, that lasted about 25 days until they found Andy was A) washed up, B) flaky. The media is lazy and loves these cliche stories. Adam Oates was the worst forward on our roster last year, bar none. All he did was take up space, in fact he took up space so well, I wouldn't be suprised if he's an astrologer in retirement now. As much as I was dissapointed in Chimera's play last year I can understand his frustration level when he would have a decent game one night (skating, hitting and fighting) only to be removed from the lineup the next night because our roster was jammed up due to the inclusion of the slowest player to ever don Oiler silks. The signing of Oates accomplised nothing for this organization except the spending of limited resources and the regression of Jason Chimera.

If K-Lowe paid a million + for a roster player so he could teach our players faceoff positioning, then he needs to seriously evaluate the work of his coaches.
Wow I couldn't disagree more. you didn't see Oates setting up plays off the draw this year? I can think of 3 separate times where I saw him doing that and twice Cross scored off the draw. Oates wasn't hired as a player coach he was picked up for offense and a vetern presence. Yes his offense wasn't there, but I don't consider it a waste of money simply because i saw so much progression over the year that I personally (not management, not the media) witnessed as a direct result of Oates. It wasn't the greatest Oiler FA signing but it wasn't a waste at all.

And I saw Chimera given every chance at the start of this year. He started on the 2nd line. His play was poor this year. I stil like him and think he just had a sophmore slump but to claim that Oates was responsible for his regression is very short-sighted. Chimera's was responsible for his play and when he got his chances he showed MacT no reason at all to keep him in the lineup.

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06-25-2004, 02:54 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Wow I couldn't disagree more. you didn't see Oates setting up plays off the draw this year? I can think of 3 separate times where I saw him doing that and twice Cross scored off the draw. Oates wasn't hired as a player coach he was picked up for offense and a vetern presence. Yes his offense wasn't there, but I don't consider it a waste of money simply because i saw so much progression over the year that I personally (not management, not the media) witnessed as a direct result of Oates. It wasn't the greatest Oiler FA signing but it wasn't a waste at all.

And I saw Chimera given every chance at the start of this year. He started on the 2nd line. His play was poor this year. I stil like him and think he just had a sophmore slump but to claim that Oates was responsible for his regression is very short-sighted. Chimera's was responsible for his play and when he got his chances he showed MacT no reason at all to keep him in the lineup.
Progression what now? We were 1 game above .500 with Oates in the lineup and the team finished, what 9 games above on the year? Yeah he was a definite factor
all year. Good money was spent on Oates and we got no playoff return. What do we have in the organization becasue of the Oates signing now? Jarett Stoll now knows the exact place Cory Cross should stand on an offensive faceoff.

What makes the Oates signing difficult to understand in that it flys in the face of the "just setting ourselves up for 2004" mantra that so many Lowe apologists have bought into on this board.

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06-25-2004, 03:00 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
What makes the Oates signing difficult to understand in that it flys in the face of the "just setting ourselves up for 2004" mantra that so many Lowe apologists have bought into on this board.
How is that? If anything it goes along to support it imo.

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06-25-2004, 03:01 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Progression what now? We were 1 game above .500 with Oates in the lineup and the team finished, what 9 games above on the year? Yeah he was a definite factor
all year. Good money was spent on Oates and we got no playoff return. What do we have in the organization becasue of the Oates signing now? Jarett Stoll now knows the exact place Cory Cross should stand on an offensive faceoff.

What makes the Oates signing difficult to understand in that it flys in the face of the "just setting ourselves up for 2004" mantra that so many Lowe apologists have bought into on this board.
What did Oates really cost us? It was a "gamble" with mixed results. He also took a chance on Ulanov. Most of this board was happy Oates signed and thought he would do better than he did. It sure is easy to say after the fact that Lowe shouldn't have done it.

Lowe never said he was going to do nothing until 2004, he said that was the goal he was shooting for and to me that was common sense considering the mess Sather and his friend Fraser left this organization in.

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06-25-2004, 03:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Progression what now? We were 1 game above .500 with Oates in the lineup and the team finished, what 9 games above on the year? Yeah he was a definite factor
all year. Good money was spent on Oates and we got no playoff return. What do we have in the organization becasue of the Oates signing now? Jarett Stoll now knows the exact place Cory Cross should stand on an offensive faceoff.

What makes the Oates signing difficult to understand in that it flys in the face of the "just setting ourselves up for 2004" mantra that so many Lowe apologists have bought into on this board.
Player progression.. players getting better as a result of learning from Oates. That isn't too difficult to agree with is it? Stoll and Horcoff and the most obvoius examples.

Oates was brought in after Reasoner went down to fill a hole. Would you have prefered that Bishai played in the bigs all year? Honestly, what would you have done then? Trade some great assets for a Gomez? Bring in a guy like Pouliot? Lowe had few options and made what MANY of us though was a great move in bringing in a proven player.

True he couldn't get his game together offensively like most of us expected him to. But how was Lowe supposed to know that a guy like Oates would stuggle offensively? He had never stuggled before. And his woes scoring hit everyone out of the blue. So rather then being writen off as a loss like Dopita, Oates started helping the kids learn from him in his last year in the league. I am not upset about the Oates signing at all. Lowe took a chance and when it started to fail turned it into something good. Would you have prefered that Lowe do nothing?

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06-25-2004, 04:01 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Player progression.. players getting better as a result of learning from Oates. That isn't too difficult to agree with is it? Stoll and Horcoff and the most obvoius examples.

Oates was brought in after Reasoner went down to fill a hole. Would you have prefered that Bishai played in the bigs all year? Honestly, what would you have done then? Trade some great assets for a Gomez? Bring in a guy like Pouliot? Lowe had few options and made what MANY of us though was a great move in bringing in a proven player.

True he couldn't get his game together offensively like most of us expected him to. But how was Lowe supposed to know that a guy like Oates would stuggle offensively? He had never stuggled before. And his woes scoring hit everyone out of the blue. So rather then being writen off as a loss like Dopita, Oates started helping the kids learn from him in his last year in the league. I am not upset about the Oates signing at all. Lowe took a chance and when it started to fail turned it into something good. Would you have prefered that Lowe do nothing?
I'm not that upset about the signing either, even though it fly's in the face of the post CBA theory, it didn't bother me. I'm of the the thought that K-Lowe doesn't really GM with a master long term plan. When he signed Oates my first reaction was "good for him" he was making a fan-friendly move and was shoring up our depth. When I saw the coin he dumped for Old Bones I was pretty irrate, after all Oates was coming off a season where he scored (I think) 7 goals and 30 some odd assists playing with Kariya and Sykora. I still wasn't that bothered by the whole experiment.

What does bother me is the whole freaking wack of Lowe apologists who manage to grasp at the tiniest grain of truth to spin the Oates signing into something positive. Oates SUCKED!!! He had maybe, maybe, five good games on this team. The speed and style didn't suit his out of shape, old body. It was wasted money, pure and simple, I'm not going to go ballistic on Lowe in hindsight, because he took a chance and lost. But do not pour motor oil over my pancakes and tell me its syrup. Oates was awful, the signing backfired, it did nothing, NOTHING, to help this team make a playoff spot.

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06-25-2004, 04:20 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
That story is not a whole lot more than idle speculation and wishful thinking. I'm sure Lowe's called the caps, as a good GM must. And there's no doubt if a media member asks him "hey, you interested in ovechkin if he's available" Lowe's not gonna say "no".

But I highly doubt mcphee is listening to offers unless they completely blow him away. Furthermore I doubt Lowe gives up his #1 d-man, forfeits any chance at the playoffs next year, and sells the farm to get one player, no matter how good he is. Lowe has built a stable of excellent prospects to go forward in 2004. Gutting the hardwork of the last 4 years on one player flies in the face of this team's mentality. This deal probably won't get done. Still, it's draft time, and boy do we love to speculate.

I really think that trading away Brewer and Hemsky this year will not affect us as much as you think. Sure we lose our number one d-man, but we add a top 6 lw that will allow us to move Smyth for a number one d-man. Bear in mind if Lowe makes this deal it is because he knows the likelyhood of next season actually happening is very low. Ovechkin gets another year to develop and do hhis military service and our young d-men get another year to grow NHL ready in the AHL.


The best deal I could see is deal would be something like Smyth and Horcoff for Bonk and Phillips.

Look at our line up if we do as i suggest.


Torres Nedved Dvorak
Ovechkin Bonk isbister
Moreau Reasoner pisani
Chimera Stoll Rita

BG

Smith Phillips(great stopper pair)
Staois Bergeron
Ulanov Semenov

Extra either lynch or woywitka

The reality is we are overstocked on NHL ready Talent and we need a true superstar and these deals would solve those issues.

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06-25-2004, 04:24 PM
  #41
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Nothing to say about Oates, I hope he enjoys retirement.

Another deal fans never disagreed with was Hecht for 2 2nd rounders (Stoll and Delauriers).

Does anyone remember when Lowe went for Lindros? The rumored deal there was Poti, Hecht and a first round pick if I recall. A contract couldn't be worked out so Clarke took Johnsson, Brendl and Hlavac (plus a pick?) from the Rags. Also, they went hard for Gaborik in his year, trying to land the Isles pick (2nd or 3rd, before they traded Luongo to get Florida's 1st overall to get Dipietro). Lowe offered Hamrlik and our 1st for the "Gaborik" pick, but it didn't happen, although the Brewer deal soon followed (Brewer, Green and pick[Winchester] for Hamrlik). Lowe has a history at the draft.

As for Ovechkin, some TV sources have been claiming that 15 teams have contacted McPhee about the first pick, but only two teams have made offers that gave McPhee pause. I would think that where there is smoke there's fire. Based on the two "proposed" deals that have been bouncing around, namely Brewer and Hemsky as the core of an Oilers deal, and Bouwmeester and Weiss as a core to a Florida deal, that these two clubs are indeed the two that have made the "substantial offers".

If you listen to Prendergast and Lowe's comments regarding Ovechkin it's clear they'd love to have him in an Oilers uni. Lowe has said that Ovechkin is exactly the kind of player the Oilers have been searching for. A natural goal scorer with a complete game and good attitude. Russians have heart, despite what some skeptics claim. Larionov, Fetisov, Konstantinov and many more have demonstrated that Russians can win in the NHL and play major roles on championship teams. Does a Canadian like Isbister have more heart than Larionov simply because of his nationality??? No.

It's unlikely that Washington will deal the pick but it's worth a shot. If we are losing Brewer and Hemsky from our roster and gaining Ovechkin we instantly become a better team. For Washinton, gaining Brewer and Hemsky plus some more first round picks may well make them better off than just having Ovechkin. Their defense is weak and trying to build by drafting alone is a risky proposition, even for a club with 5 picks in the first 2 rounds.

Also, if the Oil could pull it off they could still attempt to gain a first on draft day to get a goaltending prospect or "scorer" by trading some redundant bodies (Laraque, Isbister and Rita to name names). Any way it shakes down it should be a fun day.

As for the transfer fee, it's suposedly going to be in the neighborhood of 2-3M bucks. Basically Brewer's salary, so why the negativity? If you ask me, Russian clubs are justified in demanding so much when you consider they developed these guys and stand to lose out on revenues when Ovechkin and Malkin bolt to the NHL.

Brewer and Hemsky for Ovechkin is not putting all our eggs in one basket. Torres is a guy that 29 other teams would love to have, and he's 22. Our defensive prospects might be the tops in the league. MAP is still considered by Oilers brass as a can't miss 1st or 2nd (at worst) line center one day.

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06-25-2004, 05:05 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Brewer and Hemsky for Ovechkin is not putting all our eggs in one basket.
OK so I'm a master of hyperbole: not all, but the trade still would be 4 for 1. I like a lot of what you said regardless.

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06-25-2004, 05:08 PM
  #43
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I have to say that when I first heard the offer I wasn't interested but if Ovechkin turns out the be player we are all hoping he would be as an Oiler - I say go for it.

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06-25-2004, 05:25 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by HotToddy
I'm not that upset about the signing either, even though it fly's in the face of the post CBA theory, it didn't bother me. I'm of the the thought that K-Lowe doesn't really GM with a master long term plan. When he signed Oates my first reaction was "good for him" he was making a fan-friendly move and was shoring up our depth. When I saw the coin he dumped for Old Bones I was pretty irrate, after all Oates was coming off a season where he scored (I think) 7 goals and 30 some odd assists playing with Kariya and Sykora. I still wasn't that bothered by the whole experiment.
How does it fly in the face of the post CBA theory? Because he signed a 40 year old that was only intented to be around for the remainder of the season? Seems to fit post CBA to me.

Because the decision cost him zero prospects, zero draft picks, zero roster players when aquiring him? Hmmm seems like it was a move with the future in mind to me.

Because he didn't trade for a talented center that was commanding 4 mil a year possibly long term? Not sure that flies in the face either considering there will be upwards of 250 UFA's come July 1st.

Because he didn't take on another teams contract dump that he would be stuck with post CBA? Again, scratching my head here.

With all due respect, I think you are making too big of a deal outta the Oates thing. Other than the fact it would have been nice if he could have put up more points, he was brought in to do exactly what he did. Help the team get to this summer. He did not hurt the team long term and yes, your right, he didn't particularily help them either but he was hardly the defining moment in Lowes tenure of GM.

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06-25-2004, 05:45 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Player progression.. players getting better as a result of learning from Oates. That isn't too difficult to agree with is it? Stoll and Horcoff and the most obvoius examples.

Oates was brought in after Reasoner went down to fill a hole. Would you have prefered that Bishai played in the bigs all year? Honestly, what would you have done then? Trade some great assets for a Gomez? Bring in a guy like Pouliot? Lowe had few options and made what MANY of us though was a great move in bringing in a proven player.

True he couldn't get his game together offensively like most of us expected him to. But how was Lowe supposed to know that a guy like Oates would stuggle offensively? He had never stuggled before. And his woes scoring hit everyone out of the blue. So rather then being writen off as a loss like Dopita, Oates started helping the kids learn from him in his last year in the league. I am not upset about the Oates signing at all. Lowe took a chance and when it started to fail turned it into something good. Would you have prefered that Lowe do nothing?

I think HotToddy has a pont though. It's all well & good that the media and Oilers organization can't stop talking about Oates' veteran leadership, but I don't really see any evidence that directly links any improvements in our young players to Oates' presence.

Young players are supposed to improve by their nature. Look at the grief Hemsky got, specifically because he didn't improve on his previous year. Who's to say that any improvement in Stoll & Horcoff was not due to simply spending another year in the league, learning & maturing?

I won't go on record as definitively saying Oates was no help at all, but I see no evidence supporting either side of the argument. If one can make the argument that Oates was a blessing, one could just as easily make the argument that his presence was a hiinderance by taking away icetime from developing players.

Someon brought up the Cross example. All that means to me is that Oates knows where he wants the defender to be when HE takes the draw. Players always say winning a faceoff is an art, and who's to say that Stoll or Horcoff shouldn't have the defender in a different position according to how they will take the draw?

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06-25-2004, 06:19 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
How does it fly in the face of the post CBA theory? Because he signed a 40 year old that was only intented to be around for the remainder of the season? Seems to fit post CBA to me.

Because the decision cost him zero prospects, zero draft picks, zero roster players when aquiring him? Hmmm seems like it was a move with the future in mind to me.

Because he didn't trade for a talented center that was commanding 4 mil a year possibly long term? Not sure that flies in the face either considering there will be upwards of 250 UFA's come July 1st.

Because he didn't take on another teams contract dump that he would be stuck with post CBA? Again, scratching my head here.

With all due respect, I think you are making too big of a deal outta the Oates thing. Other than the fact it would have been nice if he could have put up more points, he was brought in to do exactly what he did. Help the team get to this summer. He did not hurt the team long term and yes, your right, he didn't particularily help them either but he was hardly the defining moment in Lowes tenure of GM.
So we signed Oates to get to the summer? What were we endanger of losing summer this year? That's my whole point, if your just building up prospect depth and trying to stay finacially afloat until 2004, why sign an over the hill forward. Why not pocket the money and let your kids play?

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06-25-2004, 06:49 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by HotToddy
So we signed Oates to get to the summer? What were we endanger of losing summer this year? That's my whole point, if your just building up prospect depth and trying to stay finacially afloat until 2004, why sign an over the hill forward. Why not pocket the money and let your kids play?
Personally, I agree with everything you've said on the subject until now. but the Oilers PP needed help, and they were desparately thin at centre.

Oates should have helped the Oilers PP, Larionov should have helped the NJ powerplay ... neither did. Probably something to do with coaching (If you think MacT's PP personnel decisions defy logic ... watch a Burns team ). But most of it is probably that these guys are old, and old players fall off the map in a hurry at the end of their careers. Its a gamble.

One thing you cannot deny ... is that Adam "cancer" Oates, who has been a defensive liability his entire career, and just terrible in that regard here. ... somehow Lowe and MacT turned him into "a great leader and a terrific defensive player". Bloody hilarious! But talk to fans ... you'd here them echo Lowe's and MacT's words in this town, the media were even worse. For Christmas sakes ... was no one actually watching the games?

It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.

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06-25-2004, 06:50 PM
  #48
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Why getting Ovechikn makes sense

Players we send off:

Eric Brewer - Young D-man that KLowe himself priced out of our range, his #'s weren't great this year, but do to the NHL economics, player raise's are standard, not a reward. At 2.5 million, and with comparing to some other defensemen of his stature, he might want 3 million or plus next year. As it stands, Oiler trade MO is Sell high, buy low, and right now Brewer still has high value around the league.

Ales Hemsky - Sophmore jinx or not? The skill is undeniable, and i say trading him is a mistake, for he will be another "Satan" who comes back and bite us in the butt. However, if the return is Ovechkin, i would not argue much. Lose right wing depth, but we would have such a strong left side in Ovechkin, Smyth, Moreau, they would be the anchor's, or go-to-guys on their respective lines.

Raffi Torres - Great first full year for Mr. Torres, no one thought he would put up the numbers he did(20 G; 14 A; +12; 5 PPG; 3 GWG, in 80 reg. season games), i myself had him pegged as a great 4th line banger, but has turned a solid top 6'er who is young. Like Brewer, his value is inflated, and I am sure any conversation with Mcphee would have Torres's name pop up.

Along with Brewer, Hemsky, Torres, and our 2 first this year, Mcphee would have to think long and hard about that offer. It would hurt, but we have the depth to soak it up, and would soon forget the latter players with Ovechkin wowing us. Heh, and maybe too boot put us in the Crosby sweep stakes.

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06-25-2004, 07:51 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
So we signed Oates to get to the summer? What were we endanger of losing summer this year? That's my whole point, if your just building up prospect depth and trying to stay finacially afloat until 2004, why sign an over the hill forward. Why not pocket the money and let your kids play?
Because the 2nd part to Lowe's promise would be that the team is also competetive.

That's why.

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06-25-2004, 08:11 PM
  #50
Lowetide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Personally, I agree with everything you've said on the subject until now. but the Oilers PP needed help, and they were desparately thin at centre.

Oates should have helped the Oilers PP, Larionov should have helped the NJ powerplay ... neither did. Probably something to do with coaching (If you think MacT's PP personnel decisions defy logic ... watch a Burns team ). But most of it is probably that these guys are old, and old players fall off the map in a hurry at the end of their careers. Its a gamble.

One thing you cannot deny ... is that Adam "cancer" Oates, who has been a defensive liability his entire career, and just terrible in that regard here. ... somehow Lowe and MacT turned him into "a great leader and a terrific defensive player". Bloody hilarious! But talk to fans ... you'd here them echo Lowe's and MacT's words in this town, the media were even worse. For Christmas sakes ... was no one actually watching the games?

It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.

The Oilers depth chart at center from the end of the 02-03 season through the Nedved deal is possibly the craziest damn thing I have ever seen.

Summer: Todd Marchant signs with Columbus
Summer: Mike Comrie's status becomes a question mark. Saga ends in December but he didn't make camp or opening night.

Opening Night C's: Smyth,York, Reasoner, Horcoff, Stoll. Not a bad group if they stay healthy. and Smyth can adjust.

Nov. 3
Oilers place center Jarret Stoll on the NHL Injured Reserve List and recall center Peter Sarno from the Toronto Roadrunners

Nov. 10 Oilers activate center Jarret Stoll off the NHL Injured Reserve List.

Nov. 12 Oilers place center Marty Reasoner on the NHL Injured Reserved List with a hairline fracture of his left ankle. Reasoner was injured after falling into the boards in Toronto on Nov. 8.

Nov. 17 Oilers sign unrestricted free agent center Adam Oates to a one-year, $1.95 million contract.

Nov. 28 Oilers activate center Adam Oates.

Dec. 16 Oilers trade centre Mike Comrie to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for defencemean Jeff Woywitka, a first-round pick in the 2004 NHL Draft and a third round selection in the 2005 draft.

Jan. 18 Oilers place center Marty Reasoner on the NHL Injured Reserved List. Reasoner will undergo arthroscopic knee surgery to determine why his right knee is still causing him pain. He will be out of the lineup a minimum of 7-10 days.

Jan. 28 Center Mike York is placed on the NHL Injured Reserve List after suffering a compound fracture to the index finger of his left hand. It is belived York will require surgery to repair the fracture, and it is unknown how long he will be out of the lineup

Jan. 28 Oilers recall center Mike Bishai from the Toronto Roadrunners.

Feb. 26 Oilers recall center Chad Hinz.

Mar. 3 Oilers acquire center Petr Nedved and goaltender Jussi Markkanen from the New York Rangers in exchange for college center Dwight Helminen, AHL goaltender Stephen Valiquette and a third-round draft pick.

Mar. 7 Oilers reassign center Mike Bishai to the Toronto Roadrunners.



Even with Comrie's holdout and Marchant's ufa status, the Oilers went from November 12 to March 3 without a full compliment of guys who could play. The York injury at the end of January added to the comedy, and I recall thinking "well, they have no choice now the Oilers have to go get someone".

And they did, on March 3.

Now, how many points did they miss the playoffs by? And quickly now, who played center in February?

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