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To Keep Vokoun Or Not?

View Poll Results: What To Do?
Keep Vokoun, Sign Extension 13 27.08%
Trade Vokoun, Go With Clemmer-Markstrom 16 33.33%
Trade Vokoun, Go With Clemmer/Markstrom-UFA goalie 19 39.58%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-13-2011, 05:39 PM
  #26
Laus723
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Whatever happens with Vokoun, Markstrom should not by any means be depended upon to play 50 to 60 games. Do we trust Clemmensen to play at least half the games? I think we're seeing this season that DeBoer trusts Vokoun more, and Vokoun is an elite goaltender. He has his flubs at times, but most do.

I think it's up to Vokoun where Vokoun goes both at the deadline and next season.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Niemi here next season, just not sure if that's a good thing or not.

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01-13-2011, 05:47 PM
  #27
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I understand that he would be a bargain at $4M per year, but what is the purpose of signing him? Just because something is a great bargain, doesn't mean you should waste your resources on buying it. There needs to be a reason for making that purchasing decision.

Unless he is playing on a competitive team, Vokoun will only help us to mediocrity.

Let's say Vokoun does sign for $4M/year, here is what his actual cost would be.
$8M+higher draft pick+assets coming back from trade

Now what is the payoff? Another few points in the standings? Playoffs? What would be an acceptable return for the price above? To me, the payoff needs to be playoffs at minimum, otherwise it just isn't worth it.
I understand your line of thinking but it relies on the fact that in order to get an A you first have to get an F. it also sounds like that you believe that the only source for the panthers getting better is through the draft and not free agency. I agree with this line of thinking however this coming year's draft is one of the weakest in recent history. If we knew that sidney crosby was the first to be in the draft this year i would say we should do everything necessary to fail but there doesnt seem to be that player this year. We cant draft an entire team of players unless everyone wants to wait another ten years by which time the panthers home games will be in winnipeg. You have to build a team around a couple of players and while markstrom is struggling in the AHL vokoun might be an option. My number one favorite idea would be to sign Anderson and bring him back if it were me we would have traded vokoun a couple of years ago when his value was higher and kept anderson. Who knows if clemmenson keeps playing the way he does give the man a chance!

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01-13-2011, 06:00 PM
  #28
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I went with Markie/UFA. signing. I would not mind to see both gone.

I'm a tad torn on bringing Vokoun back for a one year deal and see if Tallon can bring in some quality UFA's. I know it's Florida... but if he knows something that we don't know (ie. Brad Richards or TIER 2 FA. that wants to be here)...than bringing back Vokoun would be very appealing.

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01-13-2011, 08:52 PM
  #29
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If we had a competitive team by signing some decent free agents, I would be comfortable with signing Vokoun and going with the young guys we currently have. I just don't see that every happening and think the team's direction is towards building through the draft but they never fully commit to it...

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01-14-2011, 08:37 AM
  #30
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Lol @ never feeling safe with Vokoun. I swear, this place is becoming more and more hard to post at. Anyone want to take my 10,000+ posts and credit it to their account?

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Old
01-14-2011, 11:44 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Unless and untill we know how much he would resign for, its impossible to opine. His new deal and that of a UFA may be a distinction without a difference.

With that said, all things being equal, I prefer him over a ufa in that he likes the team, serviced us well in contract with many excellent games and always a 110% effort, did all the fan meet and greets, and was all in all a good soldier. so between a similiar $$ ufa and him, i prefer vokie.
lol... the point isn't that he likes the team, he wants to play for a contender, and in all honesty Tallon has stressed that if he can make a move for the better of the future he will, so keeping vokoun instead of getting draft picks/prosepects for the future isn't the right thing to do IMO. You say theirs no difference, but their is. A one year contract Theodore or Niemi etc can't get picks and prospects for us, basically the value for vokoun at the deadline will be tremendously high.

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01-14-2011, 11:48 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CanadianPantherFan View Post
I went with Markie/UFA. signing. I would not mind to see both gone.

I'm a tad torn on bringing Vokoun back for a one year deal and see if Tallon can bring in some quality UFA's. I know it's Florida... but if he knows something that we don't know (ie. Brad Richards or TIER 2 FA. that wants to be here)...than bringing back Vokoun would be very appealing.
lol the panthers signing brad richards.... the day that happens is the day I win the lottery, and I am not saying that because Richards might not want to play for us, it's because we are the Florida Panthers.....

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01-14-2011, 11:49 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
I understand your line of thinking but it relies on the fact that in order to get an A you first have to get an F. it also sounds like that you believe that the only source for the panthers getting better is through the draft and not free agency. I agree with this line of thinking however this coming year's draft is one of the weakest in recent history. If we knew that sidney crosby was the first to be in the draft this year i would say we should do everything necessary to fail but there doesnt seem to be that player this year. We cant draft an entire team of players unless everyone wants to wait another ten years by which time the panthers home games will be in winnipeg. You have to build a team around a couple of players and while markstrom is struggling in the AHL vokoun might be an option. My number one favorite idea would be to sign Anderson and bring him back if it were me we would have traded vokoun a couple of years ago when his value was higher and kept anderson. Who knows if clemmenson keeps playing the way he does give the man a chance!
I swear, I read that exact statement every single year.

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Old
01-14-2011, 12:49 PM
  #34
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lol... the point isn't that he likes the team, he wants to play for a contender, and in all honesty Tallon has stressed that if he can make a move for the better of the future he will, so keeping vokoun instead of getting draft picks/prosepects for the future isn't the right thing to do IMO. You say theirs no difference, but their is. A one year contract Theodore or Niemi etc can't get picks and prospects for us, basically the value for vokoun at the deadline will be tremendously high.
and what makes you think that? are you taking time out from your job as an NHL GM to post here on HF? and for that matter, what the makes you think he wants to play for a contender? actually, maybe you're his agent seriously, he's never said that. he's only said that he likes it in FL.

look, nobody's arguing against trading him (if he'll waive NTC) if the value's right. that's a big IF right now.

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01-14-2011, 01:27 PM
  #35
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and what makes you think that? are you taking time out from your job as an NHL GM to post here on HF? and for that matter, what the makes you think he wants to play for a contender? actually, maybe you're his agent seriously, he's never said that. he's only said that he likes it in FL.

look, nobody's arguing against trading him (if he'll waive NTC) if the value's right. that's a big IF right now.
Yeah, who wants to play on a winning team?

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Old
01-14-2011, 02:03 PM
  #36
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and what makes you think that? are you taking time out from your job as an NHL GM to post here on HF? and for that matter, what the makes you think he wants to play for a contender? actually, maybe you're his agent seriously, he's never said that. he's only said that he likes it in FL.

look, nobody's arguing against trading him (if he'll waive NTC) if the value's right. that's a big IF right now.
and what would be the right value? a first rounder? second rounder? a highly-rated prospect, maybe two? keep in mind that often times big-name guys at the end of contracts don't return that much.

i think it is more helpful to the long-term future of this team for him to be traded, regardless of what the return is because we aren't gaining anything by keeping him. there is no upside to having him here.

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01-14-2011, 02:11 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by gizmo12688 View Post
Yeah, who wants to play on a winning team?
what kind of comment is that? not even worth responding to other than to highlight it for others to laugh at.

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Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
and what would be the right value? a first rounder? second rounder? a highly-rated prospect, maybe two? keep in mind that often times big-name guys at the end of contracts don't return that much.

i think it is more helpful to the long-term future of this team for him to be traded, regardless of what the return is because we aren't gaining anything by keeping him. there is no upside to having him here.
you know, i really don't know what the right value is. that's tallon's job. i do think that, as others have eloquently argued, there are plusses and minuses to both sides. you think it's more helpful to trade him, others have argued it'd be more beneficial for him to anchor the team for the next few years and ease markstrom in. this isn't an open and shut case. i think it really does depend on how vokie feels about staying and whether or not the benefits of having him stay outweigh the return.

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01-14-2011, 02:20 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
what kind of comment is that? not even worth responding to other than to highlight it for others to laugh at.


Well, to be fair, you did say: "what makes you think he wants to play for a contender?"

How else are we supposed to interpret that?

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01-14-2011, 02:23 PM
  #39
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what kind of comment is that? not even worth responding to other than to highlight it for others to laugh at.



you know, i really don't know what the right value is. that's tallon's job. i do think that, as others have eloquently argued, there are plusses and minuses to both sides. you think it's more helpful to trade him, others have argued it'd be more beneficial for him to anchor the team for the next few years and ease markstrom in. this isn't an open and shut case. i think it really does depend on how vokie feels about staying and whether or not the benefits of having him stay outweigh the return.
Funny, I thought the same thing about your comment. Why is it laughable to think that Vokoun would want to play for a team that has a chance at winning the Cup? You are assuming that you know how Vokoun feels about staying in Florida. Just because he never outright said that he wants to be traded, doesn't mean that he wants to stay in Florida either. You could even say that since he's willing to waive his NTC that he might want to be heading out soon.

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01-14-2011, 02:31 PM
  #40
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We can't lose a player on an expiring contract when we're not going to make the playoffs for nothing when he can bring back a decent return.

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01-14-2011, 02:55 PM
  #41
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Lol @ never feeling safe with Vokoun. I swear, this place is becoming more and more hard to post at. Anyone want to take my 10,000+ posts and credit it to their account?
Why do you think I rarely show my face here anymore?

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01-14-2011, 03:04 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
what kind of comment is that? not even worth responding to other than to highlight it for others to laugh at.



you know, i really don't know what the right value is. that's tallon's job. i do think that, as others have eloquently argued, there are plusses and minuses to both sides. you think it's more helpful to trade him, others have argued it'd be more beneficial for him to anchor the team for the next few years and ease markstrom in. this isn't an open and shut case. i think it really does depend on how vokie feels about staying and whether or not the benefits of having him stay outweigh the return.
well i don't think how vokoun feels about staying here should play any part into this. So what if he loves it here and wants to stay? Yes it's nice to have players who actually want to stay in Florida but it wouldn't make sense to keep him if it doesn't help the long-term health of the team.

I've already weighed out the pros and cons of having him previously and I will restate them here...

Cons:
1) lose whatever assets that come back through a trade
2) lose better draft position
3) lose money (it's not my money but the more money the team loses, the worse off the franchise is)
4) waste vokoun's talent. he will not win here, i have become a vokoun fan and want to see him succeed, please don't let him waste his last prime years on a team that can't compete

Pros:
1) more stability in net
2) could "coach" Markstrom
3) make us more competitive

Now granted, number 4 on the con side is a bit sentimental so we should ignore it. But looking at this list, the Pros side to me is outweighed by the Cons of keeping him. You could argue that having stability in net and being more competitive is good for the development of our young guys and Markstrom could benefit from coaching. But I believe those factors can be taken care of externally by bringing a free agent goalie in the offseason and hiring a good goalie coach, while avoiding all the Cons of keeping him.

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01-14-2011, 03:09 PM
  #43
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well i don't think how vokoun feels about staying here should play any part into this. So what if he loves it here and wants to stay? Yes it's nice to have players who actually want to stay in Florida but it wouldn't make sense to keep him if it doesn't help the long-term health of the team.
Actually, it does matter.
Vokoun has a no-movement clause in his contract. He would have to approve a trade, for anything to happen.

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01-14-2011, 03:11 PM
  #44
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Why do you think I rarely show my face here anymore?
Yea, this place sucks. n00bs

Let's go back to fanhome.

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01-14-2011, 03:15 PM
  #45
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Actually, it does matter.
Vokoun has a no-movement clause in his contract. He would have to approve a trade, for anything to happen.
He would probably be silly not to accept a trade to a playoff team. His UFA value has the potential to go up dramatically with a good showing.

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01-14-2011, 03:18 PM
  #46
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He would probably be silly not to accept a trade to a playoff team. His UFA value has the potential to go up dramatically with a good showing.
I agree. And I believe he has also told the media that he wouldn't reject a trade, or whatever.
I'm just making the point that his feelings do matter, in this case, though.

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01-14-2011, 04:12 PM
  #47
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Well, to be fair, you did say: "what makes you think he wants to play for a contender?"

How else are we supposed to interpret that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo12688 View Post
Funny, I thought the same thing about your comment. Why is it laughable to think that Vokoun would want to play for a team that has a chance at winning the Cup? You are assuming that you know how Vokoun feels about staying in Florida. Just because he never outright said that he wants to be traded, doesn't mean that he wants to stay in Florida either. You could even say that since he's willing to waive his NTC that he might want to be heading out soon.
well, because you state this as a fact. and it's absolutely not. in actual fact, all we know is that vokoun has stated that he likes it in FL. this is, yes, something he's said, not something i'm assuming. additionally, his agent has said he's talking with tallon about an extension, which supports that fact. this is all out there in the public, generally known by posters here. and that's why i phrased my response as such.

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01-18-2011, 04:14 PM
  #48
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I honestly think Vokoun is on his way out, and Dale Tallon is just trying to finalize a deal. Maybe it's me and I'm reading too much into things but why else would Deboer bench his All-Star top 10 goaltender for Scott Clemmensen, three games in a row? Vokoun hasn't been playing horrible! Clemmensen,although not playing horribly bad, has given up some very, VERY weak goals and I just cannot figure out why Vokoun is riding the bench. Vokoun would've posted the shutout last night! Vokoun would've had a regulation win against NJ!

I just think something is up and Vokoun is going to be traded soon.


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01-18-2011, 04:44 PM
  #49
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Quote:
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I honestly think Vokoun is on his way out, and Dale Tallon is just trying to finalize a deal. Maybe it's me and I'm reading too much into things but why else would Deboer bench his All-Star top 10 goaltender for Scott Clemmensen, three games in a row? Vokoun hasn't been playing horrible! Clemmensen,although not playing horribly bad, has given up some very, VERY weak goals and I just cannot figure out why Vokoun is riding the bench. Vokoun would've posted the shutout last night! Vokoun would've had a regulation win against NJ!

I just think something is up and Vokoun is going to be traded soon.
I was thinking something similar. I couldnt really argue with Deboer starting Clemmensen against his former team (NJ) but to play him last nite against Atlanta seemed odd to me too. And its not really the "riding the hot goalie" as the team in front of Clemm was just playing well as you're right he did let in some weak goals (not even including yesterday's game).

If Vokoun doesnt start the next game, then I think you gotta say where there's smoke there's fire but I say its a little early to assume he's getting traded soon. Though Laus723 has a bit of a different insight into this but its not confirmable so wont repeat it here.

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01-18-2011, 05:08 PM
  #50
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I was thinking something similar. I couldnt really argue with Deboer starting Clemmensen against his former team (NJ) but to play him last nite against Atlanta seemed odd to me too. And its not really the "riding the hot goalie" as the team in front of Clemm was just playing well as you're right he did let in some weak goals (not even including yesterday's game).

If Vokoun doesnt start the next game, then I think you gotta say where there's smoke there's fire but I say its a little early to assume he's getting traded soon. Though Laus723 has a bit of a different insight into this but its not confirmable so wont repeat it here.
I also have to agree with Billy Lindsay on the "playing his former team comment". He stated that the only time you really use that excuse is when you're playing your former team for the
1st time, other than that it's just another game. Also, if that was the case, then why didn't they start Vokoun against Nashville?

I just think something is up because you don't sit an All-Star goaltender three games in a row, especially after coming off a win.

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