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What to do at the deadline? Should PG spend extra cash? / Pre-deadline thread

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:05 AM
  #1
Habsrule
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What to do at the deadline? Should PG spend extra cash? / Pre-deadline thread

Seeing as we are about a month and a half away from the deadline what should the Habs do in your opinion? Be buyers? Be sellers? Build the team for next year? Pick up draft picks? Pick up prospects?

So I will say that they should be sellers at this point. I am not saying that they should throw in the towel and blow up the team at all. Just with Markov and Gorges done for the year we have to be realistic. The team without those two players is not a contending team. I feel as if the goal should not just be to make the playoffs but to win the Stanley Cup. That may be a long ways off but we have the pieces in place to at least make a try for it in the next few years.

The players who I think could be traded at the deadline and a reasoning why are:

Andrei Kostitsyn--He was the teams best player for the first 10-15 games this year but has gone missing since. Yes his game has always been like that but he only has 23 points through 43 games this year. He is an upcoming RFA and how often do RFAs get a lower salary as the year before. He is making 3.25 million this year and most likely the same next year. His contract is not bad but the money could be spent and you could get more bang for your buck elsewhere. Some team may want to take a chance on him seeing as he can hit, can play a good offensive game and he is only 25 years old he may be a player who could get you a really good return.

Scott Gomez--I have liked his play of late and his line with Gionta and Paccioretty have really started to play well together. The only reason why I put him in here is because he is a cap hit of 7.357 million for the next three years. I highly doubt that he will have any interest in him but you just never know. That money could get a superstar to play for you.

Roman Hamrlik--We all know that he is massively over payed at 5.5 million for this year and is a UFA at seasons end. If management does not plan on signing him for next year then look to move him out. You will not get much in return but you would be doing Hamrlik a favor and giving him a shot at the Cup. He is 36 years old and does not have that much hockey left in him.

Jeff Halpern--He is in the same boat as Hamrlik. He is an aging vet at the age of 34 and even though he has played good for us he is a UFA at seasons end. If the Habs management does not think that they will resign him why not get something for him. The Habs centers for next year look like they could be Plekanec, Gomez, Desharnais and Eller so they do not need to keep him. Plus he only makes 600k this year and will be an easy pill to swallow for any team close to the cap.

Jaroslav Spacek--He is on this list because he is signed for one more year and will be making 3.833 million. He has not played all that great this year and does not deserve his contract is you ask me. He is signed for one more year at that price tag and will be very hard to move but it is all about cutting dead weight. His one goal and 13 points this season from an offensive D man just do not cut it. Plus he is also 36 years old.

Travis Moen--I really, really like him and hope that they do not trade him but I can see him having decent trade value. He is a great penalty killer who can fight and plays a rough and tough style of game. He is singed for next year at 1.5 million so any team picking him up would not just be picking up a rental player. He has only 7 points in 43 games and has actually played with Gomez and Gionta quite a few times this year.

Tom Pyatt--He is just like Moen and I live his game but I fear that the same thing that happened to Lapierre will happen to Pyatt. He will just get passed by too many guys on the depth chart. He is a great penalty killer and role player but I just can not see a future with him on the Habs. Sooner than later Ryan White, Ben Maxwell and Aaron Palushaj will have to get a chance to play in the NHL.

Hal Gill--He is the prototypical playoff shut down defenceman that every team loves. He serves one purpose and one purpose only...stop the other team from scoring. He is a UFA at the end of the season and if he is not in the plans for next year then you may as well get something now rather than getting nothing for him in a few months when he is a UFA. He brings a lot of experience and I think that a bunch of teams would be interested in him.

Alex Auld--I am sure that their will be a very little market for him but a team may just want to pick up a third goalie for insurance purposes. Just in case they get an injury to a goalie during the playoffs they have a capable goalie as a back up. We all know that Ramo is the planned back up for next year and if not him then some other goalie can do the same job next year for a million and Auld is doing for us now.



With all that being said I know that I listed a whole lot of players but you have to shop around and offer up numerous players and not just one or two and see if you get any bites. I love that they picked up Wisniewski not to long ago and as long as they sign him for next year that was a great trade. I would not call it re-builing, I would call it re-tooling.

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01-14-2011, 10:14 AM
  #2
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None of this will happen(maybe aside from moving Kostitsyn). It's clear the management wants to make the playoffs, who wouldn't want to make the playoff? Montreal proved last year that once you make it anything can happen. Also, I'm pretty sure they have influence from the owners to make the playoffs seeing as teams make extra cash during them. Couple this with the fact that the Molson's bought the team a year ago, I think there is a strong push for the Habs to make the playoffs.

What fans wants and what the management wants are two completely different things. Also, they are in a better position to see whether they want to be buyers or sellers given that they actually have contact with other teams and know the relative worth of their players as well as others.

Sorry I don't see the habs selling.

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01-14-2011, 10:33 AM
  #3
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Stay the course. The only player from that list that has a contract situation/experience level that a team might be interested in is Hamrlik.

PG for the 2nd straight year has burned draft picks in an attempt to get to the playoffs, he'll most certainly not give up that pursuit now.

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01-14-2011, 10:41 AM
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I'm hopefull we'll stand pat. I don't hate our team, but I don't think one big move would help us a whole lot. I think the time to make changes will be next season. I'd be against shipping off more draft picks/prospects for minimal short term gains at this point in time.

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01-14-2011, 10:46 AM
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Hasn't PG already mentioned that he rather do his trading well before the deadline since he feels that will get him better value for his assets?

I think he is about done trading for this season, the injuries to Markov and Gorges kind of hand-cuffed him.

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01-14-2011, 11:00 AM
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i would sell sell sell

not gonna win the cup with the team we have. And no one that can really help us will be available at the deadline.

but its not gonna happen.

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01-14-2011, 11:14 AM
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Mark my words Andrei is just a late bloomer. He's still going to be a consistent 60pt guy in the NHL eventually. Maybe not for us though.

PS: I don't see them selling but you are right in thinking they shouldn't be buyers.

I think they should just coast through the rest of the season try to get a good pick and sign some big UFA's in the offseason.

If you can make a deal before or at deadline to land a big piece then you do it, no rentals though I'm talking about Iginla or somebody of that nature.

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01-14-2011, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i would sell sell sell

not gonna win the cup with the team we have. And no one that can really help us will be available at the deadline.

but its not gonna happen.
So let's just give up our playoff spot to add a couple of 2nd round picks...brilliant!

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01-14-2011, 11:29 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Habsrule View Post
Seeing as we are about a month and a half away from the deadline what should the Habs do in your opinion? Be buyers? Be sellers? Build the team for next year? Pick up draft picks? Pick up prospects?

So I will say that they should be sellers at this point. I am not saying that they should throw in the towel and blow up the team at all. Just with Markov and Gorges done for the year we have to be realistic. The team without those two players is not a contending team. I feel as if the goal should not just be to make the playoffs but to win the Stanley Cup. That may be a long ways off but we have the pieces in place to at least make a try for it in the next few years.

The players who I think could be traded at the deadline and a reasoning why are:

Andrei Kostitsyn--He was the teams best player for the first 10-15 games this year but has gone missing since. Yes his game has always been like that but he only has 23 points through 43 games this year. He is an upcoming RFA and how often do RFAs get a lower salary as the year before. He is making 3.25 million this year and most likely the same next year. His contract is not bad but the money could be spent and you could get more bang for your buck elsewhere. Some team may want to take a chance on him seeing as he can hit, can play a good offensive game and he is only 25 years old he may be a player who could get you a really good return.

Scott Gomez--I have liked his play of late and his line with Gionta and Paccioretty have really started to play well together. The only reason why I put him in here is because he is a cap hit of 7.357 million for the next three years. I highly doubt that he will have any interest in him but you just never know. That money could get a superstar to play for you.

Roman Hamrlik--We all know that he is massively over payed at 5.5 million for this year and is a UFA at seasons end. If management does not plan on signing him for next year then look to move him out. You will not get much in return but you would be doing Hamrlik a favor and giving him a shot at the Cup. He is 36 years old and does not have that much hockey left in him.

Jeff Halpern--He is in the same boat as Hamrlik. He is an aging vet at the age of 34 and even though he has played good for us he is a UFA at seasons end. If the Habs management does not think that they will resign him why not get something for him. The Habs centers for next year look like they could be Plekanec, Gomez, Desharnais and Eller so they do not need to keep him. Plus he only makes 600k this year and will be an easy pill to swallow for any team close to the cap.

Jaroslav Spacek--He is on this list because he is signed for one more year and will be making 3.833 million. He has not played all that great this year and does not deserve his contract is you ask me. He is signed for one more year at that price tag and will be very hard to move but it is all about cutting dead weight. His one goal and 13 points this season from an offensive D man just do not cut it. Plus he is also 36 years old.

Travis Moen--I really, really like him and hope that they do not trade him but I can see him having decent trade value. He is a great penalty killer who can fight and plays a rough and tough style of game. He is singed for next year at 1.5 million so any team picking him up would not just be picking up a rental player. He has only 7 points in 43 games and has actually played with Gomez and Gionta quite a few times this year.

Tom Pyatt--He is just like Moen and I live his game but I fear that the same thing that happened to Lapierre will happen to Pyatt. He will just get passed by too many guys on the depth chart. He is a great penalty killer and role player but I just can not see a future with him on the Habs. Sooner than later Ryan White, Ben Maxwell and Aaron Palushaj will have to get a chance to play in the NHL.

Hal Gill--He is the prototypical playoff shut down defenceman that every team loves. He serves one purpose and one purpose only...stop the other team from scoring. He is a UFA at the end of the season and if he is not in the plans for next year then you may as well get something now rather than getting nothing for him in a few months when he is a UFA. He brings a lot of experience and I think that a bunch of teams would be interested in him.

Alex Auld--I am sure that their will be a very little market for him but a team may just want to pick up a third goalie for insurance purposes. Just in case they get an injury to a goalie during the playoffs they have a capable goalie as a back up. We all know that Ramo is the planned back up for next year and if not him then some other goalie can do the same job next year for a million and Auld is doing for us now.



With all that being said I know that I listed a whole lot of players but you have to shop around and offer up numerous players and not just one or two and see if you get any bites. I love that they picked up Wisniewski not to long ago and as long as they sign him for next year that was a great trade. I would not call it re-builing, I would call it re-tooling.
Trading any UFA's that we are not resigning despite being in a playoff spot is a ridiculous idea that might make a bit of sense in HF but none sitting in the chair of an NHL GM.

Hamrlik is not massively overpaid at 5.5 mil. Maybe by 500k to 1 mil but that hardly qualifies as "massively"(see Wade Redden Brian Rolson or Sheldon Souray).

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01-14-2011, 11:31 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i would sell sell sell

not gonna win the cup with the team we have. And no one that can really help us will be available at the deadline.

but its not gonna happen.
Last year peoples were saying the same exact thing and guess what we did pretty well in the playoff.

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01-14-2011, 11:35 AM
  #11
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Hasn't PG already mentioned that he rather do his trading well before the deadline since he feels that will get him better value for his assets?

I think he is about done trading for this season, the injuries to Markov and Gorges kind of hand-cuffed him.
I could see him using the 4 mil in cap room to add a rental cheap...maybe a veteran d-man for a 4th or 5th or B prospect. Rivey Vandermeer maybe Stillman(as forward).

I wouldn't be shocked if AK gets moved, much like Latendresse and O'byrne he is not a JM favorite. Maybe a trade for a guy underachieving or big contract(Malone?).

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01-14-2011, 11:48 AM
  #12
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Last year peoples were saying the same exact thing and guess what we did pretty well in the playoff.
You are right but last year we had our best defenceman in Markov coming back from injury for the playoffs. Now this year we do not have Markov or Gorges for the playoffs. Yes the Habs ran into the injury bug on D last year in the playoffs but this year they have the injury bug before the playoffs.

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01-14-2011, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i would sell sell sell

not gonna win the cup with the team we have. And no one that can really help us will be available at the deadline.

but its not gonna happen.
That's a mentality a fan can have, but never a GM.

There's only 1 team winning the cup, and every year there is at most (and at least really) 5-6 serious contenders. Should the 25 other teams all try to sell?

Making the playoffs/winning rounds is an important objective for a GM. It gives the team owners a lot of money, and hockey remains a business. The Habs cashed in a LOT from last year's playoffs, not only from the money they made directly but from the increased press they received, the interest that was increased for many, acquiring new fans that will buy stuff, etc... If the GM asks them 'we could either have 75% chances to make the playoffs or trade Hamrlik for a 2nd round pick and a 3rd-4th line prospect and have about 25% chances to make it', they won't even think a second about it.

You can't sacrifice your playoff chances for a few draft picks unless you know that it will have a massive impact in the future (such as a total reconstruction or trading for a top player/prospect/pick). None of the players we have to trade will bring this. The only one I can see/expect to see going is AK because Martin just seems to not like him and he will likely not really contribute in making the playoffs the way he is used/is playing currently. Better to trade him and try to get something of value against him.

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01-14-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Patccmoi View Post
That's a mentality a fan can have, but never a GM.

There's only 1 team winning the cup, and every year there is at most (and at least really) 5-6 serious contenders. Should the 25 other teams all try to sell?

Making the playoffs/winning rounds is an important objective for a GM. It gives the team owners a lot of money, and hockey remains a business. The Habs cashed in a LOT from last year's playoffs, not only from the money they made directly but from the increased press they received, the interest that was increased for many, acquiring new fans that will buy stuff, etc... If the GM asks them 'we could either have 75% chances to make the playoffs or trade Hamrlik for a 2nd round pick and a 3rd-4th line prospect and have about 25% chances to make it', they won't even think a second about it.

You can't sacrifice your playoff chances for a few draft picks unless you know that it will have a massive impact in the future (such as a total reconstruction or trading for a top player/prospect/pick). None of the players we have to trade will bring this. The only one I can see/expect to see going is AK because Martin just seems to not like him and he will likely not really contribute in making the playoffs the way he is used/is playing currently. Better to trade him and try to get something of value against him.
Plus, by going 1-2 rounds you give your young players quality experience.

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01-14-2011, 11:54 AM
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It's too early to make that decision, a lot can happen over the next couple of weeks. The Habs are currently in 7th, tied with 8th, and just ahead of 9th. If a week before the deadline and they are after going on a losing streak and are sitting in 12th place in the conference then I would trade off a few veterans and let the kids get experience and build for next season. If at the deadline they are still where they are, just inside the playoff seeds, they should see what is available cheaply with the 4 mil in cap space they can utilize and make a run at the playoffs. If they are close the owners are going to want them to go for it.

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01-14-2011, 12:08 PM
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Regardless of "selling or buying" and regardless of where the team is in the standings:

- try very hard to move Gomez, regardless of return. Also test the waters on Spacek, if any decent offers come, great, if not, continue shopping him in the offseason.


- as far as our vets, it wouldn't be popular (since we will-or should- be in the hunt for a playoff spot right until the end), but I'd highly consider quietly shopping Hamrlik/Gill/Halpern/Moen to see if any teams are willing to vastly overpay in a trade for them (1st round picks, quality prospects/young players).

- i imagine that the team will make A.Kost available, but I wouldn't trade him unless there is good value coming back. As an RFA, there's no harm in re-signing him next year, as inconsistent as he is, @ under 4M he still provides decent top 6 value (looking at a whole season, obviously when he's mired in slumps like this one, he's not very useful

Beyond that, I wouldn't trade any picks/prospects unless the team is getting back a player signed beyond this year OR that PG is confident he can/will re-sign. No more throwing away picks for rentals... in the playoffs anything can happen (like last season), but lightning is more of a fluke than something to bank on. This team, especially with Markov/Gorges out, is not a contender so no point in getting caught up with short-term band-aid moves.

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01-14-2011, 12:22 PM
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Get Robyn Regehr and possibly a shutdown forward with playoff and Stanley Cup experience, someone like Rolston or Madden, even a player on defense like Huskins.

Defense pairings with Regehr:

Hamrlik - Subban
Regehr - Wisniewski
Gill - Spacek

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01-14-2011, 12:27 PM
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1) take the day-off.
2) partake in some festivities.
3) eat french toast.
4) nap.
5) partake in some festivities.
6) play some madden/nhl.
7) put on TSN tradecenter.
8) partake in some festivities
9) follow hf for possible trade rumors while watching tradecenter.
10) See everybody I want on the habs moved somewhere else.
11) See nobody on the habs moved.
12) Think to myself, why do I get excited? Nothing ever happens.
13) partake in some festivities
14) Go back on hf and troll in some trade threads.

TradeCenter has become a holiday for me, how sad is that? lol.

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01-14-2011, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
1) take the day-off.
2) partake in some festivities.
3) eat french toast.
4) nap.
5) partake in some festivities.
6) play some madden/nhl.
7) put on TSN tradecenter.
8) partake in some festivities
9) follow hf for possible trade rumors while watching tradecenter.
10) See everybody I want on the habs moved somewhere else.
11) See nobody on the habs moved.
12) Think to myself, why do I get excited? Nothing ever happens.
13) partake in some festivities
14) Go back on hf and troll in some trade threads.

TradeCenter has become a holiday for me, how sad is that? lol.
Not sad at all. I've taken work off on every Trade Deadline and Free Agency for the last five years. Don't tell my boss.


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01-14-2011, 12:45 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i would sell sell sell

not gonna win the cup with the team we have. And no one that can really help us will be available at the deadline.

but its not gonna happen.
All Molson wants is a playoffs team. One or two rounds is plenty.

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01-14-2011, 12:50 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Regardless of "selling or buying" and regardless of where the team is in the standings:

- try very hard to move Gomez, regardless of return. Also test the waters on Spacek, if any decent offers come, great, if not, continue shopping him in the offseason.


- as far as our vets, it wouldn't be popular (since we will-or should- be in the hunt for a playoff spot right until the end), but I'd highly consider quietly shopping Hamrlik/Gill/Halpern/Moen to see if any teams are willing to vastly overpay in a trade for them (1st round picks, quality prospects/young players).

- i imagine that the team will make A.Kost available, but I wouldn't trade him unless there is good value coming back. As an RFA, there's no harm in re-signing him next year, as inconsistent as he is, @ under 4M he still provides decent top 6 value (looking at a whole season, obviously when he's mired in slumps like this one, he's not very useful

Beyond that, I wouldn't trade any picks/prospects unless the team is getting back a player signed beyond this year OR that PG is confident he can/will re-sign. No more throwing away picks for rentals... in the playoffs anything can happen (like last season), but lightning is more of a fluke than something to bank on. This team, especially with Markov/Gorges out, is not a contender so no point in getting caught up with short-term band-aid moves.
Say that a team is willing to take Gomez in return for a B prospect and you take it desperately wanting to get rid of him.

A-How do you replace him in the lineup for the rest of 10-11?

B-How would you replace him in the summer for next year?

I agree that he is overpaid, but it's not like there are comparable players(or better) walking the streets(now or in UFA) that could step in.

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01-14-2011, 12:57 PM
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Say that a team is willing to take Gomez in return for a B prospect and you take it desperately wanting to get rid of him.

A-How do you replace him in the lineup for the rest of 10-11?

B-How would you replace him in the summer for next year?

I agree that he is overpaid, but it's not like there are comparable players(or better) walking the streets(now or in UFA) that could step in.
I was about to ask the same questions. And the salary cap is rumored to go up next year and the Habs have some $$$$ coming off of the books.

To summarize the thread - the Habs should throw in the towel because Gorges and Markov are missing from the lineup? Who is to say other teams won't have injuries that will impact their lineup severely?

I like the idea of making the playoffs and tweaking the lineup as the market allows. I don't like a totally defeatest attitude though. Just how long do we have to wait for Markov to get healthy for the playoffs? That could take another five years.

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01-14-2011, 01:35 PM
  #23
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So let's just give up our playoff spot to add a couple of 2nd round picks...brilliant!
Yeah, that's totally what he said.

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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I was about to ask the same questions. And the salary cap is rumored to go up next year and the Habs have some $$$$ coming off of the books.
I think Gomez should pretty much be a standing order 'available at any time' with this contract. Especially now that we have some centre depth.

But you are right that we wouldn't have anybody ready to replace him, so unloading him now would be giving up on the playoffs altogether. Hopefully Eller's becomes that replacement, but that wouldn't be until next year at this time, at the earliest, IMO. And that's even if he does realize that upside.

So yeah, even though we're stuck with Gomez the contract, we could do a lot worse than Gomez the player.

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Old
01-14-2011, 01:59 PM
  #24
onice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
1) take the day-off.
2) partake in some festivities.
3) eat french toast.
4) nap.
5) partake in some festivities.
6) play some madden/nhl.
7) put on TSN tradecenter.
8) partake in some festivities
9) follow hf for possible trade rumors while watching tradecenter.
10) See everybody I want on the habs moved somewhere else.
11) See nobody on the habs moved.
12) Think to myself, why do I get excited? Nothing ever happens.
13) partake in some festivities
14) Go back on hf and troll in some trade threads.

TradeCenter has become a holiday for me, how sad is that? lol.
After 10 & 11 you still will do 13. Shame on you.

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01-14-2011, 02:12 PM
  #25
Bourne Endeavor
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If Iginla is available. I would most definitely do the deal that has floated around this forum. Namely...

Lars Eller
First round pick 2011
Second round pick 2012 or Third round pick 2011
Salary dump (Hamrlik more than likely)

Subsequently, we move Kostitsyn to reacquire that lost pick. Perhaps even reacquire a first and finally address one of the principle needs of this team. A legitimate PPG player, or just about.

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