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The 2011 ATD-B Beer League Draft

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Old
01-17-2011, 11:12 AM
  #51
BillyShoe1721
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G Roman Turek



1x NHL All-Star Game Participant
2x Jennings Trophy Winner
1x NHL 2nd-Team All Star
1x Top 10 Wins (2)
2x Top 10 GAA (2, 5)
2x Top 10 Shutouts (1, 7)
2nd Vezina Trophy Voting (99-00)
6th Hart Trophy Voting (99-00)
1994 Golden Hockey Stick Winner
2x World Championships All-Star Team
1x World Championships Best Goaltender
2.31 career GAA (11th best all-time)
1x Stanley Cup Champion

Quote:
Born in 1970 in the Czech Republic town of Strakonice, the 6' 3'' and 215 pound dynamo started his big league career as a mainstay on the Czech junior teams that competed in the European and World Junior Championships in the late 1980s. He went on to join the Budejovice club in the Czech league, and was chosen MVP for Budejovice in the 1993-94 season. He also played on the Czech national team at the 1993, 1994 and 1995 World Championships, the 1996 World Cup and the 1994 Winter Olympics. In 1996 Turek starred for the Czechs in the World Championship, recording an impressive 7-0-1 result and leading his squad to the gold medal.

After a short stint with Nuremberg in the German league, Turek who was drafted by the Minnesota North Stars in 1990 made his debut with the Dallas Stars in 1996-97 and split his time between the Texas club and Michigan of the IHL for the next two seasons. Turek consistently played well for Dallas in his first two seasons with the NHL club, recording goals-against averages of 2.05 and 2.22 respectively.

In 1998-99 Turek played a key role in the Stars' Stanley Cup victory, posting a 2.02 goals-against average and a .915 saves percentage while sharing goaltending duties with Ed Belfour. The impressive duo won the William M. Jennings Trophy for the team with the lowest goals scored against it, but more importantly brought the franchise its first-ever Stanley Cup.

Despite Dallas's success with their two top-notch netminders, things were getting a little crowded in the Stars' net, with two of the game's top goalies struggling for playing time on a powerhouse team. Turek managed to stay sharp by practicing more than he had been used to when he was a first-string goalie, often riding the exercise bike and jogging after practise.

In August 1999 Turek signed as a free agent with the St. Louis Blues. His multiyear contract freed him from the burden of having to play backup, and he he became the anchor of the Blues' defense. It was his steady play that was a big part of the St. Louis drive into the 1999-00 playoffs and their record-setting regular season as well as his second William M. Jennings Trophy. But after falling out of the playoffs in the first round two years in a row, the Blues moved Turek to the Calgary Flames in the summer of 2001.
-loh.net


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01-17-2011, 11:25 AM
  #52
seventieslord
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Turek was once tied for 10th in the NHL in sv%... although that season he didn't play enough minutes to count.

Twice top-5 in GAA, never even top-10 in sv% = guy who faced very low shot totals.

His sv% was often considered deceiving as well, as in his prime years as St. Louis' starter he was seeing low shot quality thanks to Pronger and MacInnis (same criticism that is applied to Cechmanek, except Roman's sv% figures were very dominant and not just average)

With the same team advantages as Turek, and playing Starters' minutes or close to it, here's how other goalies fared in St. Louis from 2000-2004:

Osgood .910
Turek .907
others .904
Johnson .903
Brathwaite .891

Which perfectly matches what we think of them. Osgood is an ATD backup, Johnson and Brathwaite will never get drafted or mentioned, and Turek is better than them. Unfortunately there's a huge gap between Osgood and Johnson, and all I can conclusively say is that Turek fits somewhere in-between.

His non-NHL career does add to his resume, but I wonder if it adds enough.


Last edited by seventieslord: 01-17-2011 at 11:40 AM.
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01-17-2011, 11:45 AM
  #53
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LW Jean-Guy Gendron



Why:
- 10th in goals 1959-60
- Captain of Quebec Nordiques 1972 - 1974
- Legends of Hockey:
Quote:
He was a fine goal scorer who embraced defensive responsibilities if that kept him in the line up. The hard working forward also toiled in the WHA and was a solid AHL competitor. Gendron was given more offensive responsibilities in Beantown and set a career high with 24 goals in 1959-60 while playing with Jerry Toppazzini and Charlie Burns. In 1962 Gendron returned to Boston for a couple of years before he was relegated to the AHL. He returned to the NHL in 1967 after his Quebec Aces club was purchased by the expansion Philadelphia Flyers. Gendron provided leadership and three straight 20-goal performances for his new club before joining the Quebec Nordiques of the newly founded WHA in 1972-73. He played a checking role for two year in the provincial capital before retiring in 1974.
Why not:
- Only 383 points in 863 games.

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01-17-2011, 12:00 PM
  #54
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F Richard Torianni

Why:
International Hockey Legends:
Quote:
Torriani twice won Olympic bronze medals in hockey, both times on home ice. In 1928 he helped Switzerland finish third in St. Moritz. Twenty years later the games returned to the same beautiful Swiss city, and once again Torriani helped his team capture another bronze medal.

The 1948 games were very special for Torriani. He was the toast of the country as he carried the Swiss flag at the opening ceremonies and, as pictured, took the Olympic oath on behalf of 919 competitors that year.

Those two bronze medals remain the only Olympic medals ever won by Switzerland in hockey. It also marks the longest period of time between Olympic medal podium appearances by an athlete at the Winter Olympics.

Torriani also competed in the 1936 Olympics and in 11 World Championships, winning silver in 1935 and bronze five times. He also led Switzerland in 11 European Championships, twice winning gold, in 1935 and again in 1939. All told Torriani played in 111 games for the Swiss national team and scored 86 goals.

He later coached club teams in Germany and Switzerland as well as the Swiss and Italian national teams in the 1950s At the same time competing in the sport of luge. He even won a silver medal at an event in the 1957 World Luge Championships.

Statistical records are sketchy but Torriani may have scored nearly 800 goals in about 500 club team games. He was the Gordie Howe of Swiss hockey, and one of the top in all of Europe pre-1950. There was even some rumoured interest from the NHL.
- Member of IIHF Hall of Fame

Why not:
- Judging by the medals at World Championships, Swiss hockey at the time was at a similar level to German hockey, leaving the same question marks as Jaenecke and Ball.

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01-17-2011, 12:25 PM
  #55
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I actually never realized Gendron had any defensive ability at all. He did no penalty killing post-expansion, so I treated him like a one-dimensional guy (a poor man's Simon Nolet or Bill Hicke) and kept him out of my 'A' draft even though I really wanted to make room.. I'd have been selecting him here. Based on the quote you posted, I should have fit him in. He was actually the highest-scoring player of all-time left, circa 1975. And one of the highest all-time.

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01-17-2011, 12:37 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I actually never realized Gendron had any defensive ability at all. He did no penalty killing post-expansion, so I treated him like a one-dimensional guy (a poor man's Simon Nolet or Bill Hicke) and kept him out of my 'A' draft even though I really wanted to make room.. I'd have been selecting him here. Based on the quote you posted, I should have fit him in. He was actually the highest-scoring player of all-time left, circa 1975. And one of the highest all-time.
I remembered him as being one of the highest scoring players left, but couldn't double check with Powerplay being down. He did have 1 SH goal post expansion, but I don't see a lot looking through Google News Archive about his defence (although that's something often left out in newspapers), so it could be a case of Legends of Hockey being inaccurate.

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01-17-2011, 12:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
I remembered him as being one of the highest scoring players left, but couldn't double check with Powerplay being down. He did have 1 SH goal post expansion, but I don't see a lot looking through Google News Archive about his defence (although that's something often left out in newspapers), so it could be a case of Legends of Hockey being inaccurate.
No, I doubt it. He probably just took more of an offensive role post-expansion, which is where PPGA stats would show up.. He wasn't scoring quite enough to last as a one-dimensional player pre-expansion so he probably did bring something else to the game.

I also never knew he had 3 years experience as a WHA captain. Knowing that, I'd have definitely slotted him in.

edit: also, purely one-dimensional guys are rarely captains unless they are so clearly the best player and face of the team (Gretzky, Lemieux, Perreault)

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01-18-2011, 07:53 AM
  #58
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Bill Beveridge



Games Played

1933-34 NHL 48 (1)
1934-35 NHL 48 (1)
1937-38 NHL 48 (1)

Wins

1929-30 NHL 14 (8)
1933-34 NHL 13 (8)
1934-35 NHL 11 (9)
1935-36 NHL 14 (7)
1936-37 NHL 12 (7)
1937-38 NHL 12 (7)

Losses

1929-30 NHL 20 (3)
1932-33 NHL 19 (4)
1933-34 NHL 29 (1)
1934-35 NHL 31 (1)
1937-38 NHL 30 (1)

* he led the NHL in games played for three seasons, each with three different defunct clubs (Senators, Eagles, Maroons)
* in his only NHL playoffs he won a Maroons series against Boston (1937)
* holds Maroons record for season most losses and most goals allowed
* led the Can-Am league in wins in 1932, led the AHL in games played in 1941

Quote:
Netminder Bill Beveridge made nearly 300 appearances for five different NHL clubs between 1929-30 and 1942-43. He was a consistent player and put up decent numbers considering he rarely played on good teams.

The talented backstopper joined the Senators in 1932-33 but the team was weakened by financial woes caused by the Depression. Beveridge recorded five shutouts and was often the only solid performer for the last place team. During each of the next two seasons he led the NHL with 48 appearances. The first came in Ottawa and the second with the same team after it was reincarnated as the St. Louis Eagles. The location and uniforms changed, but the club continued to languish in the basement.

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01-18-2011, 08:27 AM
  #59
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Valeri Bure



* played in the 2000 NHL All-Star Game
* led the Flames in shots three straight years, scoring 25+ goals each season
* was 4th and 9th in NHL powerplay goals in 99-00 and 00-01
* he scored 400 points in 621 NHL games played
* he scored 20+ goals in each of his only four full seasons, hampered by a string of injuries
* a tremendous skating talent roughed up in the Dead Puck Era
* he is a two-time Olympic medalist, scoring in both the 1998 and 2002 Olympics

Quote:
Valeri Bure’s statistics may not be as impressive as those posted by his older brother Pavel, yet the right-winger still enjoyed many highlights during his time with the Canadiens. With great speed and good hands, the Moscow native was always dangerous in the offensive zone, able to both set up and finish plays with equal ease.

Bure came to North America in 1991 to play junior hockey for the WHL’s Spokane Chiefs. After posting 298 points in three seasons with Spokane, while taking part in two World Junior Hockey Championships for his native Russia, Bure joined the Fredericton Canadiens in 1994-95.

After getting off to a solid start with Fredericton, Bure finished the season with Montreal, where he got into 24 regular season games. In his first full season with the Canadiens, Bure had 22 goals and 20 assists in 77 games. Fresh from that promising performance, the Russian forward embarked on the next campaign with high expectations. Injuries struck from the outset, though, and Bure was unable to salvage his season.

He had 46 goals, 64 assists and 110 points in 215 games with the Habs. Canadiens fans will always remember the 5-foot-10 Bure as a member of the Smurf Line, along with 5-foot-10 Saku Koivu and 5-foot-9 Oleg Petrov, back in the days when huge players abounded in NHL lineups.

Bure went on to play for the Florida Panthers, St. Louis Blues and Dallas Stars. In 2005, he signed with Los Angeles. Before he was able to appear in a game with the Kings, Bure required major back surgery that forced him to retire.

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01-18-2011, 11:35 AM
  #60
BillyShoe1721
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D Brian Benning



1x 1st-Team All Rookie
296 points in 568 career NHL games
8x 100 PIM
7x 30 Points in a Season
29th in points among defensemen during career(86-95, everyone in top 59 has been selected)
4th in Calder Trophy Voting

Quote:
Brian Benning was a smart and mobile defenceman who helped five clubs during a career that lasted nearly 600 games. His excellent puck- handling skills and ability to hit the net from the point made him particularly useful on the power play. The talented rearguard was the younger brother of offensive defenceman Jim Benning.

The native of Edmonton, Alberta was drafted 26th overall by the St. Louis Blues after recording 47 points in 38 games for the WHL's Portland Winter Hawks. In 1984-85, he dealt with injuries but managed to play briefly with the Blues and the junior Kamloops Blazers.

Benning spent the 1985-86 season with the Canadian National Team then joined the Blues in the playoffs when they reached the semi-finals. The youngster enjoyed a productive rookie season in 1986-87 with 49 points, seven power play goals, and a respectable +2 plus/minus rating. He was placed on the league's All-Rookie team and remained a fixture on the St. Louis blueline for another two years.

The slick defender was acquired by the L.A. Kings early in the 1989-90 season. His mobility and confidence with the puck suited the club's wide-open style of play. Two years later he joined the Philadelphia Flyers and logged plenty of ice time on the rebuilding club. Late in the 1992-93 season he was traded to the Edmonton Oilers then suited up for Canada at the World Championships. Benning retired in 1995 after playing with the Florida Panthers during their first two seasons in the NHL.
-loh.net


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01-18-2011, 11:45 AM
  #61
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LW Kristian Huselius



1x 1st-Team All Rookie
442 points in 644 career NHL games
53rd in points among skaters during career(top 89 have been selected)
4x 50 Point Scorer
4x 35 Assists
3rd in Calder voting

Quote:
A finesse player who is most effective around the net, Huselius' 1998-99 season was split between Vastra Frolunda and Farjestad before spending the entire 1999-2000 season with Vastra Frolunda. In his first full season with the team, Huselius led his team in goals (21) and points (44) before leading the Swedish Elite League in goals (32), assists (35), points (67), power play goals (10), shorthanded goals (5) and game-winning goals (9) during the 2000-01 season, thus marking the first time a player has swept all six categories in Swedish Elite League history and it is believed to be a first in any major European league.

In his first season with the Panthers, the Osterhaninge, Sweden native led the Panthers in goals 23 and finished third in points with 45. Huselius continued to be an important player for the Panthers in 2002-03, again surpassing the 20 goal mark and finishing third in team scoring. Following a 31 point season in 2003-04 and lock out year the next, Huselius returned to his homeland and had a strong campaign in 2004-05.

Coming off a strong season in the SEL, Huselius returned to the Panthers in 2005-06, yet was dealt to the Calgary Flames in the early stages of the season. After a great start in Calgary in 2005-06, Huselius set new career highs in points (77), goals (34) and assists (43) while finishing second on the team in goal scoring. The following season his numbers dwindled somewhat, and in the summer of 2008 he signed with the Columbus Blue Jackets.

On the International stage, Huselius represented Sweden at the 2000 and 2001 World Championships capturing a bronze medal in 2000 and the 1997 and 1998 World Junior Championships.


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01-18-2011, 12:30 PM
  #62
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LW Miroslav Vlach

Why:
1961 World Championship All-Star Team
1961 World Championship Silver Medal
1963 World Championship Best Forward
1963 World Championship All-Star Team
1963 World Championship Bronze Medal
1964 Olympic Bronze Medal

Calgary Herald, Dec. 14, 1963:
“Vlach is rated by many observers as the fastest skater in European Hockey”

The Montreal Gazette, Dec. 14, 1963:
“The Canadian team is also paying attention to left winger Miroslav Vlach, whom Father Bauer said is the Czech’s best forward.

Why not:
Not much information. I haven't found a good bio for him yet.

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01-18-2011, 01:07 PM
  #63
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D Hannu Virta



Why:
- 4x Pekka Rautakallio Award Winner of best defenseman in the SM-liiga
- 1994 Olympic Bronze Medal
- 1995 Olympic Gold Medal
- 1996 Most Assists in the World Championships
- 1996 Most Points in the World Championships
- Member of the 87 Canada Cup and 96 World Cup Finland Team

- Sabres Legends:
Quote:
One of the gems that Bowman found in Europe was Hannu Virta. Virta's puckhandling skills impressed Bowman but he was still concerned if the smallish (5'11" 180 pound) defenseman could play in the physically demanding NHL. Bowman continued to dig for further information on Virta, and was pleasantly surprised to learn that Virta had been suspended that season for his violent play. That eased any concerns Bowman had about Hannu's ability to play a physical game. Bowman would opt to draft Hannu with his second round pick fearing that the Edmonton Oilers were also eyeing him.

Hannu stayed in Finland the first season after being drafted. He had a strong debut season in the Finnish Elite League and also starred in the World Junior Championships before finishing the season with 3 regular season games and 4 playoff games with the Sabres.

Hannu made a favourable impression in his first full NHL season in 1982-83. He scored 13 goals (including a hat trick against Montreal) and 37 points and found himself at home on the NHL ice, even if he was lonely off of it as he struggled to learn English. He impressed everyone with his puck movement. He was outstanding at placing passes to streaking forwards. He was also a great skater

Hannu would never score at the same pace again despite being a regular on the Sabres power play unit, although he did post 36 points in the 1983-84 season. Injuries would limit him to just 51
and 47 games in 1984-85 and 1985-86 respectively.
Legends of Hockey:
Quote:
For four full seasons he prowled the Sabres' blueline before getting his Finnish armed forces call up. By this time Virta had soured on Bowman's coaching style and insisted he would not return after his mandatory service unless there was a change behind the bench.
Sabres Legends:
Quote:
He would play star in Finland upon his return, earning all star rights 5 times. He represented his country in 7 world championships, 2 Canada/World Cups and the 1994 Olympics. He played with TPS Turku until 1994 and again in 1996-97, but played much of the late 1990s in Switzerland.
Why not:
- Despite having a .51 points-per-game (tied for 91st amongst defencemen all-time), he never was top ten in defence scoring
- Durability issues


Last edited by Hedberg: 01-18-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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01-18-2011, 01:24 PM
  #64
seventieslord
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Nice picks today, guys. I particularly like Virta.

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01-18-2011, 01:33 PM
  #65
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Melville selects Doug Smail, LW



Smail was a penalty-killing specialist and great defensive forward, though not quite great enough to earn selke recognition. Smail killed 45% of penalties in his 845-game career, and though he was primarily a defensive player, is one of the all-time leading available scorers, with 459 points. Smail even played in the 1990 all-star game. With 28 career SHG, Smail is 24th all-time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey 1986
Has skating speed and uses it well... always a threat to score shorthanded goal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1986-87
equipped with a lot of quickness and speed... excellent penalty killer... a pesky little guy who will play a physical style but is better suited for the open ice game... he'll bump the opposition every once in a while but tries to avoid the high traffic areas himself... works hard on the ice...


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01-18-2011, 01:50 PM
  #66
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Melville selects Craig Muni, D



At 6'3", 208 pounds, Muni had great size, especially for his time. Late in his career, Muni was considered just a journeyman plugger, but as his career was winding down he was traded for the decent and younger Darryl Shannon, and promising youngster Michal Grosek. Just a couple of years earlier, he was traded straight up for Keith Carney. Scouting reports circa 1991 call him "one of the league's elite defensive players". His career adjusted +/- is +54, and it's tough now to find any defenseman this late with a rating like this, aside from offensive specialists who played sheltered minutes. During Muni's career, much like Joe Reekie, I often noticed that despite providing absolutely no offense, he managed to have a good +/- relative to his team.

Muni killed 43% of penalties for teams that averaged 17% better than average throughout his 819-game career. He is probably the most accomplished penalty killing defenseman available and could easily play that role in the AAA if he had to.

Muni averaged a respectable 18.56 minutes per game, and 19.13 per game in the playoffs, after my weighting formula, meaning that Muni was not just a guy who was important to bad teams and a plugger on good ones, actually the opposite. Most impressive thing in Muni's resume? He was a #4 defenseman on three cup winners - 1987, 1988, and 1990.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
Quietly, Craig Muni developed into a rugged, defensive stalwart who earned his name on the Stanley Cup three times in his 12 years in the NHL.

Muni, best known as a hard hitting, stay at home defenseman, was used in all defensive situations. A strong one- on- one player, Muni was a regular penalty killer, especially on 5- on- 3 advantages. He also developed a reputation as a controversial hitter. He was one of only a handful of players who excelled at the old fashioned hip check. However the controversy was that Muni would use his open ice hip checks like missiles, blowing out more than a few knees along the way. In one playoff series between the Oilers in Kings, Muni put both Tomas Sandstrom and Bob Kudelski on the shelf with low and controversial hits.

As solid as he was defensively, he was a one trick pony. He had little finesse game to speak of. Saying he was an average skater would be a stretch, and he had no offensive output at all. A weak shooter and poor puckhandler, Muni made a living as a 5th, 6th or 7th d-man.

Born in Toronto, he was drafted by his hometown Maple Leafs 25th overall in 1980. However he never panned out in Toronto, largely because of his skating. In 6 years in the Leafs' organization, he appeared in 19 games and was written off as a bust.

However Glen Sather saw something in Muni and in the summer of 1986 signed Craig as a free agent. Muni immediately stepped into the mighty Edmonton Oiler's blue line corps and played regularly and well. In his first 4 seasons with the Oilers he was part of three Stanley Cup championships and was a +142!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1990-91
a deceptive skater, in that he doesn't possess either great speed or quickness, but somehow he gets where he has to be... challenges opposing forwards... a conservative player... not an offensive threat... has good size and strength and uses them effectively... takes men out of the play in front... the use of his strength is made better by the fact that he stays out of the box... takes the body well along the boards... sacrifices his body to block shots... no one's exactly sure how he does it, but that mystery can't detract from the fact that Muni has become one of the NHL's best defensive players.


Last edited by seventieslord: 01-23-2011 at 02:23 AM.
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01-18-2011, 03:28 PM
  #67
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I'd forgotten about Muni; he seems to be one of the few guys who played key roles on multiple Stanley Cup winners left (the Oilers dynasty seems to have lesser importance in this draft than the Islanders dynasty, as only one guy with more than 3 cups with the Islanders remains. Muni looks as good to me as Gord Lane, for example).

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01-18-2011, 03:48 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
I'd forgotten about Muni; he seems to be one of the few guys who played key roles on multiple Stanley Cup winners left (the Oilers dynasty seems to have lesser importance in this draft than the Islanders dynasty, as only one guy with more than 3 cups with the Islanders remains. Muni looks as good to me as Gord Lane, for example).
oh yeah, for sure. ice time says he's much better than Gord Lane. Lane averaged just 16.1 minutes per game over a shorter time. And just 15.9 minutes during the cup/final years in particular. I would take Muni over Lane, who gets much more love than he deserves here.

To put it another way, what's more impressive, 4 cups as the #5, 7, 7, 7? Or three cups as the #4 each time?

I think both defense corps were similarly deep and successful, so it's a pretty fair comparison.

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01-19-2011, 12:25 AM
  #69
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I remember Muni wearing C for Sabres in 93-94 when LaFontaine was out. He, Smail and Turek were all on my AA longlists.

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01-19-2011, 08:13 AM
  #70
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Wembley selects an intriguing all-time possibly great defender Barney Holden, who scored the first goal, in the first game, of the very first professional hockey league game on December 9, 1904 in the Pittsburgh Duquesne Gardens. Born in Winnipeg, he played for Portage Lake from 1904-1907, teammate of Cyclone Taylor and Bad Joe Hall, as they won three championships together in the International Hockey League. His card was in the first pack of hockey cards ever made, one of 36 players produced in a set, the C-56 Tobacco Cigarrette Card series in 1910. He retired from hockey in 1912. His grandson published in 2004 the book Cross Check: Barney Holden and the Birth of Professional Hockey in North America.



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Known as a hitter, he was tough as hobnails, and somewhere on the ice rinks between Michigan, Manitoba, Quebec, and Saskatchewan, he left his blood and his front teeth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Holden

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..."was the greatest cover point of all time" according to N.J. Gillespie, writer for the Winnipeg Tribune Magazine, March 11, 1933. Gillespie tells of watching Barney play in Houghton as a youth, and said in the article that Holden would "stand at his position as cover point, now about where the blue line is located, and "laze" a puck over the heads of all and sundry that would find the goal, every time, unless the goal guard was lucky enough to see it coming and block it." "In those days of early hockey, the lighting system was not so good, and when you shot a puck into the air nobody could see it. I have seen "Barney" score goal after goal by shooting a high one the length of the rink that would nestle in the net without the goalie ever knowing it was coming. In the season of 1906-07, playing against the Pittsburgh pro team, in the first five minutes of the second half a player's skate ripped his [Holden's] shoe wide open. He played more than 25 minutes of hockey until the game was ended. When he reached the dressing room, this youth [Gillespie] was there to wait on him, as usual, and drew off his shoe and poured blood out of the shoe. A surgeon took seven stitches in his foot that night." "In those days, hockey players played 30 minutes, and after a 10 minute rest they played 30 more minutes. And if they were hurt enough to have to leave the game, they couldn't get back into the lineup. Unless they were knocked out so cold they had to be carried off the ice, they always stayed in the line up. Those surely were the days of the he-man hockey, mates." Gillespie wrote.
http://www.cchockeyhistory.org/legends/H.htm

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Holden had a legendary wrist shot. It was said that his wrist shot was so hard that it broke the 2 inch thick end boards in Brandon, Manitoba, one night.

He was also known to fire high shots in on net from the blue line and he would score goals from there. With primitive lighting the goalie would often lose sight of the dark disc.

He was not just a heavy shooter but a heavy hitter.

Boy was he tough. In another great story had Holden's skate ripped open early in the second half of the game (back before the creation of three periods) and he continued to play the entire rest of the game with his foot exposed. When the game was over he simply poured the blood out of his boot and awaited the doctors' stitchings.

On the downside of his career Holden moved back to Canada where he played with the Montreal Wanderers and Quebec Bulldogs.

It was said asthma that forced him to hang up his skates, although he played some semi-pro baseball after hockey and was active coaching his 5 sons and 1 daughter hockey and baseball teams in Winnipeg city leagues.

He died in 1948 in Burnaby, British Columbia.
http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...ey-holden.html

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01-19-2011, 08:57 AM
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Wembley selects defender Ed Carpenter, who scored a goal in a losing effort in a Stanley Cup challenge in 1911 with Port Arthur Lake against Ottawa but won the Stanley Cup in 1917 with the Seattle Metropolitans (as a starting coverpoint, with Bobby Rowe as the utility extra defender on a team that had Cully Wilson and Jim Riley also as extras, though as forwards). He scored 8 goals for Quebec in the 1919-20 NHL season and was second in team PIMs behind fellow defender Harry Mummery. The following NHL season he played for Hamilton. He worked for the CN railroad for 43 years and only played for hockey teams that fit around his work. In 1925 and 1926 he managed and coached Port Arthur to back to back Allan Cup championships.


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01-19-2011, 09:19 AM
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Wow, Barney Holden is an awesome pick. 6'0", 200 pounds for a guy who was born in 1881. Three-time IHL champion and all-star. 1912 SPHL all-star. played for the cup three times. Played two full NHA seasons. good anecdotes backing him up too. Better than Rockett Power and Baldy Spittal - although I stand by both those picks I would take Holden over them, no doubt.

I thought I/we had exhausted the pre-merger era but apparently not.

Also, how did I not know about that book? That sounds like an absolute must-own for an ATD GM.

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01-19-2011, 09:22 AM
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And Carpenter too! 1911, 1912, 1913 first team all-star in lesser leagues. Won the cup once, played for it another time. 5 full seasons at the top levels, would have been seven if not for WW1. Never a PCHA all-star but played for the PCHA all-star team against the NHA stars in 1916.

Very solid picks all around, Kudos to VI/JOOTG.

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01-19-2011, 09:23 AM
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Forget why they should/shouldn't be drafted, there are no "shouldn't"s about them. They should be AAA picks if not higher.

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01-19-2011, 09:27 AM
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It made my day seeing these picks made... but in another way, it really didn't. I'd like to think that, as a group, after 1600+ picks, we've gotten to the bottom of who all the best players in history were, and in a reasonable order, too. These two picks turned that line of thinking upside down for me. As the adage goes, the more you know, the more you don't know.

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