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Hemsky to LA

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Old
01-18-2011, 02:30 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
OK, you seem sincere so here we go.
First off i am an oilers fan but i wasnt a fan of hemsky until this season. This season he has been innitiating hits and playing with physical play reminding me of everything he wasnt in years before. You see Hemsky is the reason, in 06-07 when we traded CP, that we went with a bunch of floaters. We tried to have a team full of skilled guys with speed and we got crushed. It was a moronic move based mostly on the horrible assumption that the leagues defenses would continue to not be able to adjust to the post lockout era of open hockey and no obstruction. Problem is everyone saw that the league had adjusted by the late part of 05-06.
Hemsky enjoys the idea of being on one team for his career and takes it as a personal failure if he cant get this team to success. Plain and simple if he moves elsewhere he will know he couldnt do it himself. He has said many times that he wanted to be that elite player that carries a team, and as much as he is no Crosby, he has the ability to do just that for strings of games.
The fundamental issue with Hemsky is linemates. Penner and Hemsky had great chemistry in 09 before hemmers injury but that isnt saying much since penner moving to any line made those lines more effective and put their +/- gf/ga numbers into the right direction. in my opinion Hemmer was best in 06 with Sammy and a two way centre in Horcs. Sammy and Hemmer fed off eachother and basically ate up detroit - Lidstrom and Chelios included.

Lets get this straight first of all before i go further. LA is in 11th spot as of right now and 4 points away from being in 14th in the conference. This is with a mostly healthy lineup. We are in 15th spot in the conference, 2nd youngest team, 5 rookies, 8 new players on the starting roster (if we were fully healthy), top dman out LT, top centre out LT, and missed both our top rW for a month each.
So to Kings fans thinking they are much better than the second youngest team in the league, who revamped their whole line-up, revamped their entire coaching staff, put in an entirely different system, and are experiencing more growing pains than Lindsay Lohan... give your head a shake.

Schenn couldnt make a team that is 4 points removed from 14th in the conference and has really no rookies or growing pains to lean on for their absence of results.
AND he got injured.

That all being said... would Hemsky re-sign here. Yes. Tambi spoke with the vets last summer including Hemmer and Penner about their future and what they want. Fact is Tambi is not an idiot. Tambi knows not every player wants to play their prime in a rebuild. Hemsky to LA is something i thought would have happened at the draft or last summer. However, if you watch the Oil change documentary on TSN it shows footage of owner Katz asking, on behalf of Hemmer, what is going on and who we were expecting to draft. Katz goes on to say something that "Hemmers really excited and keeps texting me asking about whats going on".

Would Hemmer work better, style wise, in LA. Yes i believe so. Seeing Samsonov and Hemmer together was an eye opener. Hemmer has a quick release, laser shot and deft back hand, along with great soft quick hands in tight. He is often made to be the play maker but when sammy was with Ales... Hemmer really cannoned some shots to the corners. Would he and Kopitar rip it up? Yes i believe they would.

Hemmer just simply doesnt match CONSISTANTLY what the NW division is all about and he cant make the team and his own line rrise above that fundamental flaw without another elite forward with similar style. Eberle and Hall are both drivers... they will go to the net hard, Paajarvi is the same. Hemmer likes to feel the puck, dangle and dance. Its annoying because no one else plays that game so everyone else goes to the net and if he loses it you are chasing the puck.

In the end; last summer i said if penner wants out he likely goes to Pitts, and if Hemmer wants out we likely send him to LA.

IF LA is going to make a move to move up from mediocre (with a healthy lineup), to challenger... they will need more than one move.

If i am LA i am looking for one more RHD, RW top line, and a centre.
You got cap space so here is what id like if i was a king and what i would expect to pay.

You have about 4.5 while edmonton has 10+ in cap room

Hemsky + Cogs + Gilbert 9----> Schenn, Smyth (im not a smyth fan but unless we want to break the league record for youngest team in history next season we need to add some vets for next years roster and he only has one year left--it also removes kings cap hits so they can make more moves), Teubert, 2nd. 6

Then you can eye ball NJ.
Zajac Parise Hedberg -----> LA for Williams, Simmonds, Bernier, Voynov, 1stpick.
This makes sense to me. I dont think Parise would mesh with Kopi but he might with Brown and ... Zajac is a no brainer as they have chemistry. Williams would be a cheap resign to play opposite Kovalchuk. Bernier is the heir Lou wants and the 1st pick makes it legit since Parise is no UFA and comp would be 2 to 3 1st anyways.

Brown Kopitar Hemsky
Handzus Zajac Parise
Poni Stoll Sturm
?? Cogs??

JJ Doughty
Scuderi Gilbert
Mitchell Greene
-----------------------------probably the best top 6 and best full 6 defense in the league.
A) replace Schenn with someone else and you have a deal.

B) What makes you think NJ is even listening to that crap ?????
Williams is gone after that year. Simmond won't fetch any interest.
Our 1st will be way out of top 10.
Basically that makes Voybov + Bernier +1st
That wouldn't even close to get Parise alone not to mention Zajac and Hedberg

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01-18-2011, 02:34 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
A) replace Schenn with someone else and you have a deal.

B) What makes you think NJ is even listening to that crap ?????
Williams is gone after that year. Simmond won't fetch any interest.
Our 1st will be way out of top 10.
Basically that makes Voybov + Bernier +1st
That wouldn't even close to get Parise alone not to mention Zajac and Hedberg
Schenn or nothing. really if schenn isnt on the table no one will listen to a call from LA. Even then hes (Schenn) a nothing NHL wise and boosted WJC numbers in a 3 team tourney against the also-rans --and is overaged. Meh. Next. We keep hemmer.

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Old
01-18-2011, 02:47 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post

Lets get this straight first of all before i go further. LA is in 11th spot as of right now and 4 points away from being in 14th in the conference. This is with a mostly healthy lineup. We are in 15th spot in the conference, 2nd youngest team, 5 rookies, 8 new players on the starting roster (if we were fully healthy), top dman out LT, top centre out LT, and missed both our top rW for a month each.
So to Kings fans thinking they are much better than the second youngest team in the league, who revamped their whole line-up, revamped their entire coaching staff, put in an entirely different system, and are experiencing more growing pains than Lindsay Lohan... give your head a shake.

Schenn couldnt make a team that is 4 points removed from 14th in the conference and has really no rookies or growing pains to lean on for their absence of results.
AND he got injured.


If i am LA i am looking for one more RHD, RW top line, and a centre.
You got cap space so here is what id like if i was a king and what i would expect to pay.
The Kings are also 3 pts out of the playoffs but hey lets focus on the negative. It has more to do with the coach screwing up the lineup than a lack of talent.

Youre right Schenn didnt make the Kings. No reason to keep him up and play 4th lines minutes than let him go back and get top line minutes at a lower level. The Kings have multiple rookies in the lineup. Clifford, Martinez, Lewis. Thats not to mention guys like Lokti, Muzzin Schenn and King. The Kings are still one of the youngest teams in the league as well so yes they do still have growing pains.

The Kings dont need a top line RW or another Center. They have two RW in the top 13 of scoring at the position. They have two Centers in the top 32 of scoring at the position. What they need is a top line LW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
uhmmm.......................

selective writing, eh ????

The problem isn't Schenn the problem is Murray.
Schenn is by far our 2nd best center but for some reason he prefers to play clowns like Westgarth or Harrold or soem other freakshow guys.
This tells more about the coach than about Schenn.

But you are right. I fell better with you keeping your superstar and we stay with our garbage.
I'm always happy to see other fanbases happy.
Maybe because guys like Harrold and Westgarth are better suited for the role they are being asked to play when they do play.

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Old
01-18-2011, 02:49 PM
  #129
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Hemsky, barring an overpayment, shouldn't even be considered for trade. He should be considered a big part of the Oilers future.

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01-18-2011, 02:56 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Schenn or nothing. really if schenn isnt on the table no one will listen to a call from LA. Even then hes (Schenn) a nothing NHL wise and boosted WJC numbers in a 3 team tourney against the also-rans --and is overaged. Meh. Next. We keep hemmer.
Sounds alot like Eberles WJC where he put up the majority of his points against the also rans as an overager.

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01-18-2011, 02:59 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Sounds alot like Eberles WJC where he put up the majority of his points against the also rans as an overager.
I seem to remember his best games and highest point totals against the top teams. Eberle is the one player EVERYONE knows played best against the best.

It doesnt matter. I see La keeping Schenn and they wont do anything this year or next despite a weak Eastern Conference like division. I dont see them doing anything this decade.
I see us keeping Hemmer and adding Larsson/Landeskog. Lander and VV and Pitlick in two years. Marincin, Petry, likely Larsson with Whitney Smid and Peckham.... Roy behind 6'7" Dubs.

No issues. 3 years we challenge. with more picks in the cupboard.

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01-18-2011, 03:11 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
I seem to remember his best games and highest point totals against the top teams. Eberle is the one player EVERYONE knows played best against the best.
He had 4 pts against the US in two games. 6 pts in 2 games against the Swiss with one of those being a 5 pt game. 1 point in the semifinals against the Swiss and 2 goals in the gold medal game. Not that much different than Schenn.

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01-18-2011, 08:17 PM
  #133
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trading hemsky to the kings for schenn is a good deal. La is getting a great forward who could push them into 5th position. maybe playing with ryan smyth would drive them into them deeper and could also put them a spot in the finals (remember the chemistry they had in the 06 playoffs). Edmonton could be getting a Futer top 1 center men who could be playing with hall and eberle in couple of years. if we have to pay more to get schenn i would suggest trading penner for a ufa or maybe a dubynk and bernier swap or maybe addings cogs or brule into the deal

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01-18-2011, 08:57 PM
  #134
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We'll rent Hemsky out to the Kings for a great prospect and roster player, then Hemsky will return to Edmonton after next season.

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01-18-2011, 09:05 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
OK, you seem sincere so here we go.
First off i am an oilers fan but i wasnt a fan of hemsky until this season. This season he has been innitiating hits and playing with physical play reminding me of everything he wasnt in years before. You see Hemsky is the reason, in 06-07 when we traded CP, that we went with a bunch of floaters. We tried to have a team full of skilled guys with speed and we got crushed. It was a moronic move based mostly on the horrible assumption that the leagues defenses would continue to not be able to adjust to the post lockout era of open hockey and no obstruction. Problem is everyone saw that the league had adjusted by the late part of 05-06.
Hemsky enjoys the idea of being on one team for his career and takes it as a personal failure if he cant get this team to success. Plain and simple if he moves elsewhere he will know he couldnt do it himself. He has said many times that he wanted to be that elite player that carries a team, and as much as he is no Crosby, he has the ability to do just that for strings of games.
The fundamental issue with Hemsky is linemates. Penner and Hemsky had great chemistry in 09 before hemmers injury but that isnt saying much since penner moving to any line made those lines more effective and put their +/- gf/ga numbers into the right direction. in my opinion Hemmer was best in 06 with Sammy and a two way centre in Horcs. Sammy and Hemmer fed off eachother and basically ate up detroit - Lidstrom and Chelios included.

Lets get this straight first of all before i go further. LA is in 11th spot as of right now and 4 points away from being in 14th in the conference. This is with a mostly healthy lineup. We are in 15th spot in the conference, 2nd youngest team, 5 rookies, 8 new players on the starting roster (if we were fully healthy), top dman out LT, top centre out LT, and missed both our top rW for a month each.
So to Kings fans thinking they are much better than the second youngest team in the league, who revamped their whole line-up, revamped their entire coaching staff, put in an entirely different system, and are experiencing more growing pains than Lindsay Lohan... give your head a shake.

Schenn couldnt make a team that is 4 points removed from 14th in the conference and has really no rookies or growing pains to lean on for their absence of results.
AND he got injured.

That all being said... would Hemsky re-sign here. Yes. Tambi spoke with the vets last summer including Hemmer and Penner about their future and what they want. Fact is Tambi is not an idiot. Tambi knows not every player wants to play their prime in a rebuild. Hemsky to LA is something i thought would have happened at the draft or last summer. However, if you watch the Oil change documentary on TSN it shows footage of owner Katz asking, on behalf of Hemmer, what is going on and who we were expecting to draft. Katz goes on to say something that "Hemmers really excited and keeps texting me asking about whats going on".

Would Hemmer work better, style wise, in LA. Yes i believe so. Seeing Samsonov and Hemmer together was an eye opener. Hemmer has a quick release, laser shot and deft back hand, along with great soft quick hands in tight. He is often made to be the play maker but when sammy was with Ales... Hemmer really cannoned some shots to the corners. Would he and Kopitar rip it up? Yes i believe they would.

Hemmer just simply doesnt match CONSISTANTLY what the NW division is all about and he cant make the team and his own line rrise above that fundamental flaw without another elite forward with similar style. Eberle and Hall are both drivers... they will go to the net hard, Paajarvi is the same. Hemmer likes to feel the puck, dangle and dance. Its annoying because no one else plays that game so everyone else goes to the net and if he loses it you are chasing the puck.

In the end; last summer i said if penner wants out he likely goes to Pitts, and if Hemmer wants out we likely send him to LA.

IF LA is going to make a move to move up from mediocre (with a healthy lineup), to challenger... they will need more than one move.

If i am LA i am looking for one more RHD, RW top line, and a centre.
You got cap space so here is what id like if i was a king and what i would expect to pay.

You have about 4.5 while edmonton has 10+ in cap room

Hemsky + Cogs + Gilbert 9----> Schenn, Smyth (im not a smyth fan but unless we want to break the league record for youngest team in history next season we need to add some vets for next years roster and he only has one year left--it also removes kings cap hits so they can make more moves), Teubert, 2nd. 6

Then you can eye ball NJ.
Zajac Parise Hedberg -----> LA for Williams, Simmonds, Bernier, Voynov, 1stpick.
This makes sense to me. I dont think Parise would mesh with Kopi but he might with Brown and ... Zajac is a no brainer as they have chemistry. Williams would be a cheap resign to play opposite Kovalchuk. Bernier is the heir Lou wants and the 1st pick makes it legit since Parise is no UFA and comp would be 2 to 3 1st anyways.

Brown Kopitar Hemsky
Handzus Zajac Parise
Poni Stoll Sturm
?? Cogs??

JJ Doughty
Scuderi Gilbert
Mitchell Greene
-----------------------------probably the best top 6 and best full 6 defense in the league.



Hi

Thanks for responding to my post.


I started writing a response to what you have written but your post is so seriously riddled with inaccuracies that I become lost and decided to simply let it go.

My short response is that you are very much wrong in your impressions about the Kings and where we are in our development as well as how we got here.

You site that you just installed an entirely new coaching system etc but our deadbeat coach and his system is in its second full season so, we are both in the same sort of place.

The fact that you are critical of the amount of talent and depth on our team and in our system simply shows that you either are unfamiliar with our team and or our players and prospects.

I am not trying to be rude or anything but it has to be one of the two because you can't honestly believe what you have written if you actually knew anything at all about either of them.


Anyways, I like your team and think that you have allot of exceptionally talented scoring forwards. Now when you get a legitimate depth of defencive prospects/players and a couple of truly talented number 1 goalies in your system we will have filled our last need and that is for what you already have.

Of course, we will be a few years ahead of you but we started our rebuild sooner so we should be.

As for who will or won't be a legit contender well, lets let time sort that one out.

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01-18-2011, 11:14 PM
  #136
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You have to be a SUPER Oilers HOMER to think the Kings are giving up Schenn for Hemsky.

On the surface it doesn't look that bad of a ripoff, but on closer inspection you see Hemsky as a soft forward who gets injured more often than you want and is not going to get any better.

Kings get screwed on that deal.

How about Hemsky for Thomas Hickey. He was drafted even higher than Schenn. Go for it Oil fans !!!!

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01-19-2011, 07:22 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved1* View Post
You have to be a SUPER Oilers HOMER to think the Kings are giving up Schenn for Hemsky.

On the surface it doesn't look that bad of a ripoff, but on closer inspection you see Hemsky as a soft forward who gets injured more often than you want and is not going to get any better.

Kings get screwed on that deal.

How about Hemsky for Thomas Hickey. He was drafted even higher than Schenn. Go for it Oil fans !!!!
i think that if edmonton adds a decent winger or prospect like reddox or omara to the trade i think they would accept

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01-19-2011, 07:28 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Schenn or nothing. really if schenn isnt on the table no one will listen to a call from LA. Even then hes (Schenn) a nothing NHL wise and boosted WJC numbers in a 3 team tourney against the also-rans --and is overaged. Meh. Next. We keep hemmer.
I'm perfectly fine with that

I simply don't want Hemsky and Schenn is going nowhere.

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01-19-2011, 07:31 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Maybe because guys like Harrold and Westgarth are better suited for the role they are being asked to play when they do play.
Is this king of a joke ?????
If yes it isn't funny.....................

Harrold or Westgarth shouldn't even be considered as regular NHL players.
Give them to Detroit or Chicago and see what happen to them.

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01-19-2011, 07:34 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by OilersPride04 View Post
i think that if edmonton adds a decent winger or prospect like reddox or omara to the trade i think they would accept
That's really nice that you think that but it is not the case.
Schenn holds simply too much value for our system and the role he is supposed to play.

You can ad whatever descent winger you want and the Kings wouldn't accept
as long as we are not talking MPS here

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01-19-2011, 07:40 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Is this king of a joke ?????
If yes it isn't funny.....................

Harrold or Westgarth shouldn't even be considered as regular NHL players.
Give them to Detroit or Chicago and see what happen to them.
You ***** about guys like Harrold and Westgarth being on the team over Schenn when both are better suited the 4th line than Schenn is. Especially when you consider neither are centers and neither are considered regular players.

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01-19-2011, 07:45 PM
  #142
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Schenn has already suffered a knee Injury and Shoulder Injury before his Nhl career has even started so there would be some caution as to his durability as a player as well, So to be honest I dont think Edm would consider a straight Hemsky for Schenn proposal as well

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01-19-2011, 07:48 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
You ***** about guys like Harrold and Westgarth being on the team over Schenn when both are better suited the 4th line than Schenn is. Especially when you consider neither are centers and neither are considered regular players.
Well.............. i don't wanna start a Kings lineup discussion here.
Schenn wouldn't be a 4th line in my team.
I'm just saying Harrold and Westgarth doesn't belong on a regular NHL roster.
On top Westgarth is destroying Cliffords career right now.
And yes... Murray consider them as regualr NHL players.
Don't put that on me... just as Murray why.

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01-19-2011, 08:33 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well.............. i don't wanna start a Kings lineup discussion here.
Schenn wouldn't be a 4th line in my team.
I'm just saying Harrold and Westgarth doesn't belong on a regular NHL roster.
On top Westgarth is destroying Cliffords career right now.
And yes... Murray consider them as regualr NHL players.
Don't put that on me... just as Murray why.
Of course Schenn wouldnt be. You'd get rid of a #2 center to play an unproven rookie.


Do you honestly believe what you post? Westgarth is destroying Cliffords career? I cant wait for the explanation on this one. Do you realize or do you just ignore the fact that Harrold has played 1 game since Dec 23rd? Or that hes only played in 18 games this year? How exactly does Murray consider him a regular NHL player when he doesnt play him?.

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01-19-2011, 10:40 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Of course Schenn wouldnt be. You'd get rid of a #2 center to play an unproven rookie.


Do you honestly believe what you post? Westgarth is destroying Cliffords career? I cant wait for the explanation on this one. Do you realize or do you just ignore the fact that Harrold has played 1 game since Dec 23rd? Or that hes only played in 18 games this year? How exactly does Murray consider him a regular NHL player when he doesnt play him?.
Well... ok...........

In Harrolds case you might be right but even 1 game is too much for him and Murray consider Westgarth on a regular base.

Right now Clifford is imitating and find a friend in Westgarth.
Instead picking up the tools of how to be an effective 4th liner and be an important tool he thinks ist's cool to be a freakshow like Westgarth is showing him.
He is at a critical point of his career where he has to decide go up or stay a sideshow.

And before you are yelling at me, i have another mind for a 4th line than you.
Best example is Detroit 2000. You have lightning fast skaters who are very smart and are able to outskate and destroy opponents top lines.
This line is a very important tool and underrated on so many teams.
usually the 4th line is just a freaksow with a couple of amusementpark boxer.
These teams are usually to find at the bottom of the league.

Clifford has 2 options now. One is to pick up what i'm talking about, work on his skating really smarten up and learn to read the game or option 2 stay with Westgarth, keep on boxing and have a meaningless 3 year career in the NHL with a following promising career in the echl for the rest of his hockey life

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01-19-2011, 11:19 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post

Then you can eye ball NJ.
Zajac Parise Hedberg -----> LA for Williams, Simmonds, Bernier, Voynov, 1stpick.
This makes sense to me. I dont think Parise would mesh with Kopi but he might with Brown and ... Zajac is a no brainer as they have chemistry. Williams would be a cheap resign to play opposite Kovalchuk. Bernier is the heir Lou wants and the 1st pick makes it legit since Parise is no UFA and comp would be 2 to 3 1st anyways.

Brown Kopitar Hemsky
Handzus Zajac Parise
Poni Stoll Sturm
?? Cogs??

JJ Doughty
Scuderi Gilbert
Mitchell Greene
-----------------------------probably the best top 6 and best full 6 defense in the league.
I doubt Lou would trade our #1 winger and #1 center for 2nd line player(Williams) a 3rd line player(Simmonds), a prospect goalie and a prospect defender and a mid to low 1st round pick.

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01-20-2011, 02:44 AM
  #147
kingpest19
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well... ok...........

In Harrolds case you might be right but even 1 game is too much for him and Murray consider Westgarth on a regular base.

Right now Clifford is imitating and find a friend in Westgarth.
Instead picking up the tools of how to be an effective 4th liner and be an important tool he thinks ist's cool to be a freakshow like Westgarth is showing him.
He is at a critical point of his career where he has to decide go up or stay a sideshow.

And before you are yelling at me, i have another mind for a 4th line than you.
Best example is Detroit 2000. You have lightning fast skaters who are very smart and are able to outskate and destroy opponents top lines.
This line is a very important tool and underrated on so many teams.
usually the 4th line is just a freaksow with a couple of amusementpark boxer.
These teams are usually to find at the bottom of the league.

Clifford has 2 options now. One is to pick up what i'm talking about, work on his skating really smarten up and learn to read the game or option 2 stay with Westgarth, keep on boxing and have a meaningless 3 year career in the NHL with a following promising career in the echl for the rest of his hockey life
What are you talking about? How is he imitating Westgarth and turning into a freak show?

The kid is 20 years old learning the pro game and you act like hes a veteran who has years behind him and not showing anything. Hes one fo the few guys on the roster that can handle the rough stuff and is a valuable part of the team at 20.

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Old
01-20-2011, 02:55 AM
  #148
Mike The Franchise
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So ya Hemmer is out indifinitly with a concussion. I would have really loved to see Hemmer and Kopi play together but Hemmer is becoming the next Patrice Bergeron, a highly skilled player that cannot stay healthy. Sucks to because I actually have a Hemsky jersey and love this guy =(

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Old
01-20-2011, 08:40 PM
  #149
Roof Daddy
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Originally Posted by Kovalchuk89 View Post
So ya Hemmer is out indifinitly with a concussion. I would have really loved to see Hemmer and Kopi play together but Hemmer is becoming the next Patrice Bergeron, a highly skilled player that cannot stay healthy. Sucks to because I actually have a Hemsky jersey and love this guy =(
I'm not sure this will be too lengthy, its day-to-day from what I got out of Renney's presser. I doubt he misses more than one additional game after tonight.

As far as a proposal - if Schenn is off the board - how about Hemmer for Toffoli and a 1st?

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Old
01-20-2011, 09:39 PM
  #150
kingsfan
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I'm not sure this will be too lengthy, its day-to-day from what I got out of Renney's presser. I doubt he misses more than one additional game after tonight.

As far as a proposal - if Schenn is off the board - how about Hemmer for Toffoli and a 1st?
Done.

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