HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Montreal Canadiens Jacques Martin Cheats the Habs with “The System”

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-16-2011, 09:35 PM
  #1
chrisralph007
HFB Partner
 
chrisralph007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 1,949
vCash: 500
Montreal Canadiens Jacques Martin Cheats the Habs with “The System”

Excerpt:

Quote:
But here’s where things came apart, and where I once again have to question the manageability of Jacques Martin.

Le Bleu, Blanc, et Rouge came out lifeless in the third. Protection at it’s best. No forecheck. No backcheck. No neutral zone presence. Nothing!
http://thehockeywriters.com/martin-c...th-the-system/

chrisralph007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 09:36 PM
  #2
guest1467
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,824
vCash: 500
Why is this Martins fault? Why does execution always get blamed on him?

guest1467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 09:38 PM
  #3
Krnage
Registered User
 
Krnage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fermont
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Why is this Martins fault? Why does execution always get blamed on him?
it just easier to blame the coach before the players ?

Krnage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 09:39 PM
  #4
C77
Registered User
 
C77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Junior's Farm
Country: United States
Posts: 12,876
vCash: 500
Lots of people have the same complaint in Boston. The players don't go out to play hockey...they go out to execute the system like robots most of the time. Most games feature very little spontaneity or creativity these days.

C77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 09:40 PM
  #5
RE-HABS
Registered User
 
RE-HABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Why is this Martins fault? Why does execution always get blamed on him?
Because they go into protect the lead mode, it never works. Go with the attack, stick with the speed and skill and keep adding to the totals in the goals for.

We saw this under Carbo, Julien and others...it doesn't work, lets stay with the course with the skill and speed while complementing it with a good defensive system when needed, not totally falling on the D to protect a lead when you allow the team to take the game to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C77 View Post
Lots of people have the same complaint in Boston. The players don't go out to play hockey...they go out to execute the system like robots most of the time. Most games feature very little spontaneity or creativity these days.
Because that was Julien's system too, on Montreal we have different coaches with different names and faces, but it is always the same system.

RE-HABS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 09:43 PM
  #6
guest1467
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Because they go into protect the lead mode, it never works. Go with the attack, stick with the speed and skill and keep adding to the totals in the goals for.

We saw this under Carbo, Julien and others...it doesn't work, lets stay with the course with the skill and speed while complementing it with a good defensive system when needed, not totally falling on the D to protect a lead when you allow the team to take the game to you.
This is something every fan of every team says. The thing is, coaches often tell the team the complete opposite. When winning something, basic psychology is to take less risks and make simple plays. Players do this in every sport, in every game.

But for some reason fans have it in their mind that the coaches come into the locker room and say to do nothing, no offense, just sit back and play defense.

guest1467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:17 PM
  #7
Metropolitsky
Still 4x more cups
 
Metropolitsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,414
vCash: 500
It's Jacques who told the players to always stop scoring after 2 or 3 goals.

Metropolitsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:18 PM
  #8
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitsky View Post
It's Jacques who told the players to always stop scoring after 2 or 3 goals.
Apparently the Flyers have Jacques Martin as coach as they did the same thing today. Flyers had 3 shots in the 3rd with a 3 goal lead. Won 3-2.

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:24 PM
  #9
Jedrik
Registered User
 
Jedrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,819
vCash: 500
Not to dump entirely on Martin, but as coach he does naturally have to share a large part of the blame for some trends -- being on our heels with short leads, getting scored on late in periods, some bad matchup decisions at home, too many men on the ice calls, etc.

Jedrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:24 PM
  #10
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,311
vCash: 500
I disagree that the habs were playing back the entire period. The dramatic shift happened immediately after the rangers scored their goal about 7 minutes into the period.

I thought they were in complete control until the hobbit scored. I had the feeling all along that if the habs couldnt get that 4th goal, and the rangers got the next one, then it was going to be a gripping finish. You see it happen alot in these types of games, where the opposition just hangs around despite being thoroughly outplayed.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:25 PM
  #11
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I disagree that the habs were playing back the entire period. The dramatic shift happened immediately after the rangers scored their goal about 7 minutes into the period.

I thought they were in complete control until the hobbit scored. I had the feeling all along that if the habs couldnt get that 4th goal, and the rangers got the next one, then it was going to be a gripping finish. You see it happen alot in these types of games, where the opposition just hangs around despite being thoroughly outplayed.
I blame Jacques Martin for global warming.

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:31 PM
  #12
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,766
vCash: 500
The best way to whole a lead is to keep the puck in the other team's zone.

Apparently Martin, or the players, or both seem to think the best way to keep a lead is to have the puck in your zone as much as possible.

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:35 PM
  #13
Jedrik
Registered User
 
Jedrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
The best way to whole a lead is to keep the puck in the other team's zone.

Apparently Martin, or the players, or both seem to think the best way to keep a lead is to have the puck in your zone as much as possible.
I know one thing, when we were wrapped in our zone during the third period onslaught, our guys weren't moving their feet a whole lot. I was thinking they looked either exhausted or incredibly timid.

Jedrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:39 PM
  #14
number 11
Registered User
 
number 11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,888
vCash: 500
when you're up a goal, it's normal to sit back a bit and try to protect the lead. no one wants to be the guy who makes a mistake costing his team the game.

number 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 10:45 PM
  #15
Jedrik
Registered User
 
Jedrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,819
vCash: 500
Look, we won the game, and the Rangers are a quality team. But I hope they are, as a group which includes both players and coaches, analyzing the F%** out of the tape of that third period.

Jedrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 11:25 PM
  #16
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,923
vCash: 500
don't even merge this thread with the other JM threads.
Kill it and pretend it didn't happen.

Another online "writer" pandering to the fans of the biggest sport in Montreal - second guessing the Canadiens coach.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2011, 11:43 PM
  #17
WhiskeySeven
Enlarged Member
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,716
vCash: 500
He isn't cheating the Habs with "the System", he's cheating the Habs' fans.

I wanted to watch exciting, fun hockey with the talent the team has. Not the slop delivered on a weekly basis.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:04 AM
  #18
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Why is this Martins fault? Why does execution always get blamed on him?
When it happens almost every time when we have a lead, you have to wonder what exactly is the coach telling his players. He's probably not saying ''dump it, and come back in the D zone to make sure we have our 5 players there''.
But he might say something along the lines of don't rush up unless you're certain of the play, or have a one man easy forecheck.
In other words, just telling your players to be more careful is enough to make them more cautious, which in turn makes them forecheck with less intensity/aggressiveness. This combined with a team that has the complete opposite mentality, ''full out attack as we have no choice but to score'', leads to us being dominated and sitting back.

If you tell AK (or basically the team) to just go full out offense and not care about the Defense, it's all good, then you will see him cheat a lot more and he will eventually get a chance. Maybe we will give up a goal in the process, or maybe we will be the ones scoring. Bottom line is the team will still be thinking offense.
Our team is constantly thinking Defense, it's Martin's way. So, going into the 3rd period with a lead, our team is probably thinking Defense x2 considering it's the coach's overall idea.

If I have a coach constantly telling me to be defensively aware, and I'm heading into the 3rd period with a lead, you can be sure I'll take my foot off the pedal offensively and focus more on defense, it's only normal. I'm not saying it's Martin telling them to slow down, but subconsciously, because they're so focused on Defense all the time, they'll instinctively take less risk and forecheck less.

It will happen to every team, every now and then, to end up losing a game while leading going into the 3rd. When it happens regularly though, you have to think it's more than just players poorly executing the system. Why would they consistently execute the system poorly if heading into the 3rd with a lead, compared to other periods??..

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:23 AM
  #19
GoHomez
Registered User
 
GoHomez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 8 km from the Globe
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number 11 View Post
when you're up a goal, it's normal to sit back a bit and try to protect the lead. no one wants to be the guy who makes a mistake costing his team the game.
This.
"Sitting back" isn't isolated to the Montreal Canadiens, or the NHL for that matter. It happens every day in rinks around the globe and the player says the same thing after the game when asked about sitting back.
"It's difficult, you try not to and you talk about not to but it happens... "

But on the other hand, there are teams that are better at keeping at it when up. My guess would be it's a culture thing inbetween players and the coach.

Having a defence minded coach like Martin probably doesnt help either.

For the record, I didn't watch the Rangers game but "the problem" is universal so to speak

GoHomez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 05:11 AM
  #20
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
We saw this under Carbo, Julien and others...
Carbo and Muller flat-out said that they never asked the players to do it. I don't understand why coaches are always blamed for teams doing this.

Do you people seriously believe the coach comes in to the dressing room before the third and says something like "Alright boys, we're going to be throwing the game-plan that's been working well for us out the window for the next period and try to sit on the lead." Ridiculous!

The issue has nothing to do with the coach, and everything to do with the team's confidence level.

All-Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 05:15 AM
  #21
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 8,686
vCash: 500
It happens at novice, pee-wee, bantam, midget, junior, AHL, KHL and NHL levels. It's called human nature. It happens in football, baseball, basketball, soccer, etc.

deandebean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 06:11 AM
  #22
PunkinDrublic*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sutton,Qc-Sudbury,On
Posts: 8,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
It happens at novice, pee-wee, bantam, midget, junior, AHL, KHL and NHL levels. It's called human nature. It happens in football, baseball, basketball, soccer, etc.
You forgot Atom !!! C'mon man.

PunkinDrublic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 06:33 AM
  #23
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 8,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
You forgot Atom !!! C'mon man.
****, yeah. Sorry for the atom players.

deandebean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 06:35 AM
  #24
King Woodballs
MVP! MVP! MVP!
 
King Woodballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Your Mind
Posts: 32,123
vCash: 50
Muller himself stated that it was the players doing it not the coachs telling them to do it.
He said the coachs are getting pissed and that they keep telling the players to keep the foot on the gas pedal.

King Woodballs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 07:46 AM
  #25
Jedrik
Registered User
 
Jedrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Star View Post
Carbo and Muller flat-out said that they never asked the players to do it. I don't understand why coaches are always blamed for teams doing this.

Do you people seriously believe the coach comes in to the dressing room before the third and says something like "Alright boys, we're going to be throwing the game-plan that's been working well for us out the window for the next period and try to sit on the lead." Ridiculous!

The issue has nothing to do with the coach, and everything to do with the team's confidence level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
Muller himself stated that it was the players doing it not the coachs telling them to do it.
He said the coachs are getting pissed and that they keep telling the players to keep the foot on the gas pedal.
All due respect to Muller etc., you could be telling your players one thing but communicating very different or mixed messages non-verbally, e.g. like benching guys for defensive miscues or turning over the puck while trying to construct plays up the ice. To me there's a body language to this team under certain circumstances that bears a striking family resemblance to Martin.

It's one thing to be totally outplayed in a period, but when you're unable even to get possesion of the puck it's a concern.


Last edited by Jedrik: 01-17-2011 at 08:13 AM.
Jedrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.