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01-18-2011, 11:15 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
I wouldn't call Moulson "untouchable" but where do you draw the line if your Snow? We DO NOT have talent up front other than Tavares, Moulson, Okposo and to a centain extent Neilson....The guy apparently likes to play here where nobody else wants to come play, he's proven that he can score which we are desperately missing on the roster and overall the guy is liked by his teammates (Haven' heard otherwise).

In my opinion with this roster he is almost untouchable because of what he brings and the only way I WOULD trade him is if we are the ones sending a package to someone else for a better more poroven scorer. IE: Moulson + Prospect and pick for an Iginla type player. (Obviously this is just an example but its to get my point across)
I agree Moulson is not "untouchable" but I think you are selling a few guys a bit short on talent...

Grabner, Comeau, Schremp and Parenteau are all capable 2nd tier talent.

I am hopefull that all 4 players can get to the 20 goal plateau. Would that be bad?

I understand they are not TOP TIER guys, but still, not bad. And personally, I think Grabner has lots of upside. This is really his first year, and first opportunity to play a regular shift.

Still i understand your point. We need a top line winger who can help set JT up on a more regular basis. I still would love to see Josh Bailey on a line with Moulson and Tavares. I feel that Bailey has the play making ability from the wing to set up both of those linemates more consistently.

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01-18-2011, 11:28 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post

Grabner, Comeau, Schremp and Parenteau are all capable 2nd tier talent.

I am hopefull that all 4 players can get to the 20 goal plateau. Would that be bad?
Ooofa..... I hope they're not banking on that. If all 4 reach a 20 goal plateau, it wouldn't be bad.... it would be n amazing feat. And it would only be because they're getting a ton of minutes.

I can't juggle for *****.... but if I do it for 20 mins a night, I could make it look like I know what I'm doing for a little bit. I'd still suck at it though.

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01-18-2011, 11:44 AM
  #103
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Yes but he hasn't progressed as well as the others have. He has been ineffective thus far. It would be a major gamble to trade Moulson and Bailey for him at this point in all of their careers.

I like Bailey, and I think he has the potential to be a pernnial 60 pt player. His offensive production has not improved by much, but his defensive play has. He too is only 20 years old.

Moulson is already a top 6 forward who should and has averaged 25-30 goals a season.

Bailey and Moulson for Bogosian will not be a good deal for the Isles. Not yet anyhow.
I think you're selling Bogosian's performance short with the above, especially the bolded part.

He's had a bad year, but his first two seasons in the league, he was actually impressive. His rookie year, he came back from a broken leg and put up very impressive totals for a defenseman, let alone an 18-year old. His second season, he again put up impressive totals, all while logging significant minutes for the Thrashers.

So while he's struggled a bit for whatever reason this year, I think it's unfair to make it sound like he's yet to prove he's capable of being a top-4 guy in the league. He already proved that in years 1 and 2 that he can not only handle important minutes defensively, but contribute on the offensive side of things as well.

He's proven much more at this point than Bailey has. Tossing in Moulson, who is a UFA and might not even re-sign with whichever team acquires him, doesn't offset the difference between Bogosian and Bailey, IMO.

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01-18-2011, 12:18 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sneekypete View Post
Just get Moulson signed trading him would be a sad move for this team. The guy does everything asked of him and more. Not to mention he is not made of Paper mache. Does this team only like to sign players that get hurt every 3 weeks?
I agree completely. Let's just sign the guy, like we signed Jurcina. Keep it simple, quiet, get it done. This guy can play on any line and be effective, great attitude, work ethic - he's the kind of player the Isles desperately need and would have a hard time replacing. You don't hear words like "potential" or "enigmatic" or any "IFS" around Moulson.

He is what he is, an effective NHL player who's in his playing prime. One of the only TWO we have at forward IMO (Nielsen being the other)

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01-18-2011, 12:27 PM
  #105
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Moulson and Snow are too far apart on the terms... Why else would he give Moulson 72hrs to sign. You can't play hardball when you have nothing backing you up. I actually think trading him to a contender is a good thing.

See what he can do in a playoff type situation, see how he handles himself and if he can compete at that level then offer him something closer to what he's asking in July. Just don't trade him for wasteful draft picks...

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01-18-2011, 03:48 PM
  #106
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I think that if he has previously stated that he wants to remain an Islander (when was the last time we heard someone say that!), and he has proven himself as a legitamite top-six forward (at least for now and in the near future), than why wouldn't we want to hold onto him? As far as I'm concerned, if he asks for more money, give him it! It may be a bit more than he's really worth, but we're not going to be bringing anyone better in, so why not? He may not be a 30 goal scorer every year, but he and JT make a nice combo, he's a fun player to watch, and one of the few on the team who is a legitamite NHL player.

Let's get that extension Garth!

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01-18-2011, 03:59 PM
  #107
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I think that if he has previously stated that he wants to remain an Islander (when was the last time we heard someone say that!), and he has proven himself as a legitamite top-six forward (at least for now and in the near future), than why wouldn't we want to hold onto him? As far as I'm concerned, if he asks for more money, give him it! It may be a bit more than he's really worth, but we're not going to be bringing anyone better in, so why not? He may not be a 30 goal scorer every year, but he and JT make a nice combo, he's a fun player to watch, and one of the few on the team who is a legitamite NHL player.

Let's get that extension Garth!
Miro Satan said it.... so did Sutton, Parrish, Blake...

It all comes down to how far apart they are in $$$ and years. I'm not the biggest fan of Moulson, but I see his importance to this team. If this is true, I hope the brain trust doesn't insult him with a low offer, but at the same time doesn't severely overpay.

Over pay a bit in money or years (not both) to keep him here. If you can't get it done by the deadline, he should be traded for more assets. It's a tough pill to swallow, but the best course of action IMHO.

My biggest fear with this guy is that once he's no longer willing to pay the price infront of the net, he's rendered pretty much useless. He will struggle to score 10 goals. You've just got to hope he continues parking himself infront of the net and stays healthy.

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01-18-2011, 04:01 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Closet Ranger Fan View Post
Moulson and Snow are too far apart on the terms... Why else would he give Moulson 72hrs to sign. You can't play hardball when you have nothing backing you up. I actually think trading him to a contender is a good thing.

See what he can do in a playoff type situation, see how he handles himself and if he can compete at that level then offer him something closer to what he's asking in July. Just don't trade him for wasteful draft picks...
I have yet to see from a real source anything about a 72 hr ultimatum. I really doubt that's the case.

I like MM just as much as the next guy. I would do back flips if this team resigned him. OTOH I am also aware that although the depth on D in this system has improved it still needs more bodies. So I wouldn't be too upset to see Moulson dealt for a D Prospect or a pick where we can land a good one.

Granted the team needs work up front as well but I would hope the team keeps in mind we are gonna need the cap room to resign Tavares, Okposo, Hamonic, Bailey and hopefully Nino one day. Tavares and Okposo are gonna command an easy 7 mill a piece a season to sign here long term. That's two players that are gonna need 14 mill in cap space at the minimum.

I don't want this team to wind up like Chicago AFTER their cup run.

We have lots of guys in our pipeline that are gonna command big bucks at some point. I don't mind trading a 27 y/o Matt Moulson if it's what the situation dictates.

This team as it stands has a tough time breaking out of their zone and clearing the front of their net. Improve that Blueline Garth!!!!!

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01-18-2011, 04:17 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by CDirt View Post
I don't want this team to wind up like Chicago AFTER their cup run.
Apologize in advance for straying from the original topic, however I really don't get this kind of comment. I know you stressed (based on your capitalization) the situation Chicago faced after they'd won the Cup, but at the same time, I don't understand how people make them out to be in such a horrible spot.

First off -- and yes, this goes against you saying "after" -- they won the Cup. That is the ultimate achievement that teams aim for. They collect draft picks, prospects, and free agents in the hopes that all that building will result in winning the Stanley Cup. Chicago did just that with their roster, regardless of what situation it put them in in the future. They achieved the ultimate goal. So regardless what happens this season, or next, or the year after, what they did was what 29 other teams wanted to do.

Second -- and this is more directly tied to your "after" scenario -- the Hawks are still a very good team this year. They had to shed some of their depth, but they kept every single piece of their core intact. They didn't lose Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson or Seabrook. Not to mention, they're still in the playoff hunt. They sit 6th in their conference and, after a bit of a rough start, are actually starting to turn it on. Yet you make it sound like they're now dwelling near the basement, and that they've had to completely dismantle their core and hurt themselves tremendously because of their spending.

I mean, I just don't get it. Chicago has to unload some of their depth, but have retained the guys who they built their championship around. Yet somehow they're in a unenviable situation?

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01-18-2011, 04:29 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I mean, I just don't get it. Chicago has to unload some of their depth, but have retained the guys who they built their championship around. Yet somehow they're in a unenviable situation?
Not to speak for him, but I think you're twisting his point a little. I don't think it's about achieving the ultimate goal (the Stanley Cup)... everyone gets that. I think the point is that Chicago had to strip out a lot of its depth when it didn't really have to.

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01-18-2011, 04:40 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Not to speak for him, but I think you're twisting his point a little. I don't think it's about achieving the ultimate goal (the Stanley Cup)... everyone gets that. I think the point is that Chicago had to strip out a lot of its depth when it didn't really have to.
I covered that with my second point, though. Yes, they had to strip some depth, but it's not like they left themselves with just Kane, Toews, Sharp, and Keith and Seabrook, and then a bunch of AHL-fodder.

Also keep in mind that all championship teams, to some degree, will have to shed some salary. Pittsburgh had to after they won, even Detroit had to after they won (one of the reasons Hudler went over to Russia). If the Isles ever get to the point where they're a Stanley Cup winner, I guarantee with 100% certainty they'll also have to shed at least some of their depth the year after. It's how it goes in the new cap world of the NHL. To win, you're going to have to add players you might not be able to afford the next year. Deadline acquisitions, or players coming off their ELC after the Cup win guarantee this is the case.

The good teams get by by making sure the important guys -- the core -- remain intact, and somehow fill out their depth with whatever is left in funds. I think Chicago's being unfairly criticized for this, when the fact is they've managed to keep the key guys despite whatever salary they had to shed.

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01-18-2011, 04:42 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Apologize in advance for straying from the original topic, however I really don't get this kind of comment. I know you stressed (based on your capitalization) the situation Chicago faced after they'd won the Cup, but at the same time, I don't understand how people make them out to be in such a horrible spot.

First off -- and yes, this goes against you saying "after" -- they won the Cup. That is the ultimate achievement that teams aim for. They collect draft picks, prospects, and free agents in the hopes that all that building will result in winning the Stanley Cup. Chicago did just that with their roster, regardless of what situation it put them in in the future. They achieved the ultimate goal. So regardless what happens this season, or next, or the year after, what they did was what 29 other teams wanted to do.

Second -- and this is more directly tied to your "after" scenario -- the Hawks are still a very good team this year. They had to shed some of their depth, but they kept every single piece of their core intact. They didn't lose Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson or Seabrook. Not to mention, they're still in the playoff hunt. They sit 6th in their conference and, after a bit of a rough start, are actually starting to turn it on. Yet you make it sound like they're now dwelling near the basement, and that they've had to completely dismantle their core and hurt themselves tremendously because of their spending.

I mean, I just don't get it. Chicago has to unload some of their depth, but have retained the guys who they built their championship around. Yet somehow they're in a unenviable situation?
I agree with you 100% You play to win the Stanley Cup.. If gutting the future gets you the Cup YOU WON!!! Teams rise and Fall.. You simply enjoy the glory and go back to the drawing board. I for one have less faith in our prospects then some of you have. Guys like Joensue, Ullstrom, Bailey, DeHann etc.. If we have a decent solid core going with Tavares then you build around him and then trade the rest to get veterans who can play!

Of course that is the norm for 29 GM's except ours Garth Snow thinks he is the Billy Beane of the NHL with one exception.. The A's at least won the division a few times and made the playoffs!!

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01-18-2011, 04:54 PM
  #113
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If Moulson gets traded, I will go BAT**** crazy!

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01-18-2011, 05:15 PM
  #114
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3 million dollars or more for a player who gets around 45 points or so playing first line minutes seems like an overpayment. Granted Moulson can get 25-30 goals but the overall production for first line minutes isn't that great at all.

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01-18-2011, 05:18 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Apologize in advance for straying from the original topic, however I really don't get this kind of comment. I know you stressed (based on your capitalization) the situation Chicago faced after they'd won the Cup, but at the same time, I don't understand how people make them out to be in such a horrible spot.

First off -- and yes, this goes against you saying "after" -- they won the Cup. That is the ultimate achievement that teams aim for. They collect draft picks, prospects, and free agents in the hopes that all that building will result in winning the Stanley Cup. Chicago did just that with their roster, regardless of what situation it put them in in the future. They achieved the ultimate goal. So regardless what happens this season, or next, or the year after, what they did was what 29 other teams wanted to do.

Second -- and this is more directly tied to your "after" scenario -- the Hawks are still a very good team this year. They had to shed some of their depth, but they kept every single piece of their core intact. They didn't lose Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson or Seabrook. Not to mention, they're still in the playoff hunt. They sit 6th in their conference and, after a bit of a rough start, are actually starting to turn it on. Yet you make it sound like they're now dwelling near the basement, and that they've had to completely dismantle their core and hurt themselves tremendously because of their spending.

I mean, I just don't get it. Chicago has to unload some of their depth, but have retained the guys who they built their championship around. Yet somehow they're in a unenviable situation?
What if that happens to us even BEFORE we hit a cup run?

I don't think I ever qualified what I said by saying its guarenteed we win a cup and that's what happens.

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01-18-2011, 06:40 PM
  #116
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I have yet to see from a real source anything about a 72 hr ultimatum. I really doubt that's the case.

I like MM just as much as the next guy. I would do back flips if this team resigned him. OTOH I am also aware that although the depth on D in this system has improved it still needs more bodies. So I wouldn't be too upset to see Moulson dealt for a D Prospect or a pick where we can land a good one.

Granted the team needs work up front as well but I would hope the team keeps in mind we are gonna need the cap room to resign Tavares, Okposo, Hamonic, Bailey and hopefully Nino one day. Tavares and Okposo are gonna command an easy 7 mill a piece a season to sign here long term. That's two players that are gonna need 14 mill in cap space at the minimum.

I don't want this team to wind up like Chicago AFTER their cup run.

We have lots of guys in our pipeline that are gonna command big bucks at some point. I don't mind trading a 27 y/o Matt Moulson if it's what the situation dictates.

This team as it stands has a tough time breaking out of their zone and clearing the front of their net. Improve that Blueline Garth!!!!!
I'd give anything to be like the Hawks. They just won a SC. If that was a choice, the Islanders can win the cup and then unload a couple of guys the following year, I would jump all over it.

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01-18-2011, 08:59 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The good teams get by by making sure the important guys -- the core -- remain intact, and somehow fill out their depth with whatever is left in funds. I think Chicago's being unfairly criticized for this, when the fact is they've managed to keep the key guys despite whatever salary they had to shed.
No doubt. I agree with your salient point, no question. As much as Chicago should be praised for keeping their core in tact, I think they can also be fairly criticized for some of their signings that left them somewhat needlessly squeezed, as well. They had to let go of some pretty good players! That being said, I agree that having so many high end players is a pretty good problem to have.

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01-19-2011, 12:55 AM
  #118
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Trade him to Canadiens, Camellari is hurt. He would look good next to Gomez and Gionta. Both can skate and set him up.

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01-19-2011, 09:26 AM
  #119
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If we can't sign him to an extension, wonder if a slumping L.A. would like him back for an almost NHL ready Thomas Hickey?

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01-19-2011, 09:38 AM
  #120
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If we can't sign him to an extension, wonder if a slumping L.A. would like him back for an almost NHL ready Thomas Hickey?
Almost NHL ready on any other team = NHL ready for the New York Islanders

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01-19-2011, 11:23 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
Trade him to Canadiens, Camellari is hurt. He would look good next to Gomez and Gionta. Both can skate and set him up.
Good thought.

1-for-1 swap for Lars Eller - I'm all for it.

Then resign Moulson in the offseason!:-)


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01-19-2011, 03:31 PM
  #122
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The Soundtigers Blogger mentioned Scott Gordon has been following the Bruins and their AHL team around lately, i wonder if this is where the Moulson to Boston rumors began.

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01-19-2011, 03:46 PM
  #123
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The Soundtigers Blogger mentioned Scott Gordon has been following the Bruins and their AHL team around lately, i wonder if this is where the Moulson to Boston rumors began.
Nah....that's just Scott trying to learn how to coach.

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01-19-2011, 06:36 PM
  #124
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Nah....that's just Scott trying to learn how to coach.
Or looking for a new, old employer.

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01-19-2011, 09:15 PM
  #125
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Or looking for a new, old employer.
His problem there is he writes a resume never allowing himself to slow down his writing, always pushing to the top of the page with bad punctuation as a result. Overscript just doesn't get his credentials expressed in any meaningful way and he hurts his groin more scribbling than 99.998% of writers out there because of it.

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