HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Chi - Tor

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-17-2011, 11:56 AM
  #1
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,003
vCash: 500
Chi - Tor

To Chicago:
Tyler Bozak
Carl Gunnersson
+?

To Toronto:
Dave Bolland


The Hawks are into another off-season of contract issues. They currently have 11 players signed and have 15 million to sign the rest with a major position (goaltender) to worry about.

Seabrook is an RFA and should be top priority of the Hawks this offseason. So, you would think that Bolland has to be the odd man out because you don't want to deal anyone named Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp or Keith. Both guys that the Hawks receive are RFA's and can contribute right away.

Thoughts? What do you think the + could be?

showtime8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:02 PM
  #2
Nachoman AlfieSavage*
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eating nachos up top
Posts: 2,245
vCash: 500
A roofie. Because the Hawks would need to be under the influence to take that trade

Edit: Bozak is much worse than Bolland. But we are throwing in a totally useless player that we dont want. So clearly the quantity makes it a doable deal..............


Last edited by Nachoman AlfieSavage*: 01-17-2011 at 12:08 PM.
Nachoman AlfieSavage* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:11 PM
  #3
Blaylock38
Bleeds Blue & White
 
Blaylock38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
To Chicago:
Tyler Bozak
Carl Gunnersson
+?

To Toronto:
Dave Bolland


The Hawks are into another off-season of contract issues. They currently have 11 players signed and have 15 million to sign the rest with a major position (goaltender) to worry about.

Seabrook is an RFA and should be top priority of the Hawks this offseason. So, you would think that Bolland has to be the odd man out because you don't want to deal anyone named Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp or Keith. Both guys that the Hawks receive are RFA's and can contribute right away.

Thoughts? What do you think the + could be?



Interesting but I am not sure that Bolland would be the right player to play with Kessel or not. I would like to see the Leafs hold on to both Bozak and Gunner unless they could be part of a package for a more established centre.

Also I can't see the leafs adding more, its too steep of a price to acquire Bolland.

Blaylock38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:12 PM
  #4
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtonsApple View Post
A roofie. Because the Hawks would need to be under the influence to take that trade

Edit: Bozak is much worse than Bolland. But we are throwing in a totally useless player that we dont want. So clearly the quantity makes it a doable deal..............

That's what the plus sign is for. I'm sure we coulda got more, like Crosby for that deal though. What was I thinking.

showtime8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:18 PM
  #5
MisterT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 425
vCash: 500
Gross overpayment for a 3rd line centre. Bozak can handle that role without having to give up Gunnersson or anything else.

MisterT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:20 PM
  #6
ChiHawk21
Registered User
 
ChiHawk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,954
vCash: 500
Do Not Want

ChiHawk21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:21 PM
  #7
GordieHoweHatTrick
Registered User
 
GordieHoweHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 13,818
vCash: 500

GordieHoweHatTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:37 PM
  #8
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiHawk21 View Post
Do Not Want
To be honest, if I was Chicago, I wouldn't take the deal either. BUT, the major hurdle is going to be contracts in the off-season. So you have to ask if keeping Bolland, and allowing Seabrook to walk is the best move.

In this case, you are getting a respectable 3rd line player in Bozak and a 3rd pairing d-man in Gunnarsson. You are losing your 3rd line centreman that makes 3.375, which is a significant blow but what hurts more, losing Seabrook or Bolland?

showtime8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:48 PM
  #9
MrSerious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,102
vCash: 500
Chicago no longer has cap issues. They don't make this trade, especially the way Bolland's been playing.

MrSerious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:59 PM
  #10
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSerious View Post
Chicago no longer has cap issues. They don't make this trade, especially the way Bolland's been playing.
They will have cap issues this off-season.

They have 11 guys locked up with just about 16 million dollars left to sign the remainder of the team.

Unless you expect Seabrook to play for 1 million and the rest of the signees to play for the same, they will be in the same situation as this year.

showtime8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 01:26 PM
  #11
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,913
vCash: 500
Honestly....Tyler Bozak is more valuable to Toronto than Dave Bolland would be, so the notion of including Carl Gunnarsson to make that downgrade is highly unrealistic, nevermind Gunnarsson+.

Why is Bozak more valuable to Toronto? Simple. He has a better chance of success centering the 1st line than Dave Bolland does because he has more offensive creativity, and if Toronto is able to land a #1 C, Bozak would be a significantly cheaper 3rd line C. Having that cheaper 3rd line C will be important considering we already have $6m tied up in a pair of 3rd line wingers.

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 01:52 PM
  #12
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Honestly....Tyler Bozak is more valuable to Toronto than Dave Bolland would be, so the notion of including Carl Gunnarsson to make that downgrade is highly unrealistic, nevermind Gunnarsson+.

Why is Bozak more valuable to Toronto? Simple. He has a better chance of success centering the 1st line than Dave Bolland does because he has more offensive creativity, and if Toronto is able to land a #1 C, Bozak would be a significantly cheaper 3rd line C. Having that cheaper 3rd line C will be important considering we already have $6m tied up in a pair of 3rd line wingers.

I'm not sure we were able to see Bolland's creativity. He has to play behind 2 really good centremen in Chicago.

I think that Bolland is a better penalty killer and a much better all around player. Not to take anything away from Bozak because I think he's still a good player. I think Gunnersson puts this deal over the top and still allows Aulie to come up and play next year in the starting 6, even top 4?

showtime8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 01:58 PM
  #13
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
To Chicago:
Tyler Bozak
Carl Gunnersson
+?

To Toronto:
Dave Bolland


The Hawks are into another off-season of contract issues.
1. We have no issues next off-season. All that needs to be deceided is what Bowman(s) plan for the future and if they see our youngsters as ready. Leddy is in the NHL now and Morin will be next season. Maybe Beach, Krüger or Smith will be too

2. That's an interesting proposal, but the + has to be something that really gets it to an overpayment from TO

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post

Why is Bozak more valuable to Toronto? Simple. He has a better chance of success centering the 1st line than Dave Bolland does
like Buff can't handle a Top6 Role or Poni is better than Sharp?

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:01 PM
  #14
Blaylock38
Bleeds Blue & White
 
Blaylock38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
I'm not sure we were able to see Bolland's creativity. He has to play behind 2 really good centremen in Chicago.

I think that Bolland is a better penalty killer and a much better all around player. Not to take anything away from Bozak because I think he's still a good player. I think Gunnersson puts this deal over the top and still allows Aulie to come up and play next year in the starting 6, even top 4?
Re: Bolland, I think you make a strong point as the centres ahead of him do get most of the attention. Funny as you make this point, Yahoo canada has a heading and video clip of Bolland deking out Suter and the article calls the goal by Bolland a potential goal of year, Interesting timing.

As for the Leafs defence, it looks like the progression plan would be to attempt to trade Komisarek or Beauchemin for a forward to open up a spot for Aulie, rather than trade Gunner. Or Auile might get the spot if kaberle walks. Maybe Kaberle waives and than Aulie gets his spot that way, but it seems unlikely he will waive.

If the leafs deal one of the above than gunner moves into a top 4 role and will be needed.

Blaylock38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:03 PM
  #15
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
I'm not sure we were able to see Bolland's creativity. He has to play behind 2 really good centremen in Chicago.

I think that Bolland is a better penalty killer and a much better all around player. Not to take anything away from Bozak because I think he's still a good player. I think Gunnersson puts this deal over the top and still allows Aulie to come up and play next year in the starting 6, even top 4?
He's had plenty of opportunity to grab that #2 centre spot and failed to do so. Bozak has looked out of his element playing on the first line, but a big reason for that is because his wingers have been Kris Versteeg (a HORRIBLE fit for Kessel), Colby Armstrong (not a good enough puck handler/passer), and Joey Crabb (AHL level talent).

Losing Gunnarsson wouldn't open up space for Aulie, it would only open up space for a guy like Blacker. Plus, Gunnarsson is the only guy in our lineup with the potential to make Beauchemin expendable when his contract expires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
like Buff can't handle a Top6 Role or Poni is better than Sharp?
Buff has yet to prove that he can play a consistent top 6 forward role and I never said Ponikarovsky was better than Sharp. What relevance that has to a Bolland/Bozak debate I'm not really sure.

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:09 PM
  #16
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,874
vCash: 500
Bolland could become a #1 Center. If his injuries stop, he could have the ability. Not like Crosby, Malkin or Richards, but for a team like yours, he can turn out like a #1 for you.

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:15 PM
  #17
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Bolland could become a #1 Center. If his injuries stop, he could have the ability. Not like Crosby, Malkin or Richards, but for a team like yours, he can turn out like a #1 for you.
If that was the case, Chicago wouldn't be looking for a #2 centre.

The idea is for Toronto to become a better team, not have a 3rd line C playing on the first line.

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:24 PM
  #18
Blaylock38
Bleeds Blue & White
 
Blaylock38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Bolland could become a #1 Center. If his injuries stop, he could have the ability. Not like Crosby, Malkin or Richards, but for a team like yours, he can turn out like a #1 for you.
I definitely see your point, I think the Leafs should probably be thinking the same thing, try to snag a young centreman that has 1st line potential, and is only playing on a third line due to a teams depth, the problem with the OP is that the Leafs (whether others believe it or not) think Bozak has that potential also.

From our perspective we give away a player we feel the same about (Bozak) , plus a defenceman who has upside and youth, and maybe + as suggested for Bolland who has nice potential but is as much of question mark as a top line centre as Bozak. It becomes too expensive for the Leafs to do, especially if they are content in developing Bozak.

here is the link to Bolland's sick goal.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl-308320

Blaylock38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:34 PM
  #19
brevard*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
They will have cap issues this off-season.

They have 11 guys locked up with just about 16 million dollars left to sign the remainder of the team.

Unless you expect Seabrook to play for 1 million and the rest of the signees to play for the same, they will be in the same situation as this year.
You are kidding right? You did take a moment to look not only at the number of players signed but also the positions and roles they fill on the team didn't you?

I will go as slow as I can for you. Add Beach and Leddy (projected and already here)and Chicago has just under 44.5 million spent to that point with the cap expected to rise about 3 million to a tad over 61 million. This would mean they will have about 16.5 million available to spend and if (IF) they plan to go with a fill 23 player lineup they would have the following roster spots to fill.

Top 6 Winger (current is Kopecky @ 1.2m [most expensive] Stallberg and Brouwer all see time in that role.
3rd line Winger (Current Brouwer @ 1.025m [most expensive] Stalberg and Skille all see time in that role.
4 = bottom line forwards/pressbox guys. At current Dowell, Pisani and Scott have most games played. None makes over 525k.

Top pairing D-man (Seabrook's spot) I expect he will get somewhere around 5 million per.
3rd pairing D-man. Several on current roster make at or near 500k.
7th D-man, Again expect something around 500k.

Starting goalie and backup goalie. I will bet you cash the 2 combined cost less than 3.0 million.

So guestimating we have

16.500 in space
3.000 max for goalies

13.500
5.000 for Seabrook

8.500
1.800 top 6 winger (not a sniper, a guy to play with Toews/Hossa or Sharp/Kane.)

This leaves 6.7 million dollars for 7 guys. NONE of whom will make more than a million dollars a year or really see to much regular ice time. Actually most will make closer to 500k than a million and Chicago will have space left over.

You cannot ONLY look at the amount of space and number of guys and ASSUME there is a cap issue. Chicago has 1 important player to sign next summer (Seabrook) and another the following summer (Sharp) and those guys are already eating 3.5 and 3.9 mill of cap space. Only 1 or 2 others (either re-signed or brought in) will make over a million per. Everyone else will be under a million dollars each.

CHICAGO HAS NO CAP ISSUES.

brevard* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 02:53 PM
  #20
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Deal doesn't work for Toronto at all, Bozak is in his sophomore slump and is doing just as well as Bolland is.

Adding Gunnarsson plus more on top of Bozak for Bolland is beyond ridiculous.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 03:00 PM
  #21
Shaun_W_W
Registered User
 
Shaun_W_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,477
vCash: 500
Doesn't make sense for Toronto, Bolland isn't an upgrade as a top 6 centre and if we manage to bring in a top 6 centre Bozak is fine as a third line centre and will make significantly less than Bolland next year.

Shaun_W_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 03:06 PM
  #22
brevard*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaylock38 View Post
I definitely see your point, I think the Leafs should probably be thinking the same thing, try to snag a young centreman that has 1st line potential, and is only playing on a third line due to a teams depth, the problem with the OP is that the Leafs (whether others believe it or not) think Bozak has that potential also.

From our perspective we give away a player we feel the same about (Bozak) , plus a defenceman who has upside and youth, and maybe + as suggested for Bolland who has nice potential but is as much of question mark as a top line centre as Bozak. It becomes too expensive for the Leafs to do, especially if they are content in developing Bozak.

here is the link to Bolland's sick goal.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl-308320
Bolland is probably the best shut down center in the game today. If that trade gets made Toronto wins it TODAY.
That said if I am Toronto there is no way I make that deal. Both guys in the deal that would be coming to Chicago have not (just my opinion) reached their top out and could grow to be much better in the future.

brevard* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 03:13 PM
  #23
Crazy_Ike
Cookin' with fire.
 
Crazy_Ike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,015
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
CHICAGO HAS NO CAP ISSUES.
Thanks for posting this, saved me the time. Astounds me how many fans of other teams think they can tell Hawks fans about our own cap situation. They must be the same people who assured us there was no chance the Hawks would be able to keep Toews, Kane, or Keith.

The Hawks don't need to choose between Seabrook and Bolland. That doesn't mean they will never trade one of them, but they don't have to.

Original proposal is awful. Bozak is a fourth line center only playing higher because, well, it's Toronto. Gunnarsson can't even hang in the lineup consistently.

I realize its been a while since a Toronto fan saw what a contending team looks like first hand, so I forgive them for not understanding you don't downgrade core players for stiffs.

Bolland outscores Bozak from the third line vs first line, in less games, while being better defensively, tougher, same age, and proven playoff success (and most importantly isn't a Justin Bieber fan). In what world does that get offset with a #7 defenseman?

Shove your garbage on someone else, Leafs fans. We got screwed by you once already this season (as some of us predicted when it happened).

Quote:
Bolland is probably the best shut down center in the game today.
That's going a bit too far though...

Crazy_Ike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 03:19 PM
  #24
Saul
S'all Good Man
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,787
vCash: 500
Chicago fans were so low on Bolland. He gets two goals in yesterdays game and now he is the best shut down centre in the league?

Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 03:31 PM
  #25
Blaylock38
Bleeds Blue & White
 
Blaylock38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 793
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Crazy_Ike;30272188]

Shove your garbage on someone else, Leafs fans. We got screwed by you once already this season (as some of us predicted when it happened).




I don't know why these threads always have to go this way, people are discussing players, if you don't like them fine, why call players garbage??? Why insult a fanbase for no reason, it is absolutely ridiculous. Please tell me how insulting a fanbase is productive in creating discussions about hockey?Bozak and Gunnerson are not garbage by any means, the sophomore slump is not a new concept in hockey and doesn't automatically make players garbage.


Anyways, Bolland is a solid player, but for that price it is too steep for Toronto to pay.

Blaylock38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.