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"We have never offered Beauchemin in a deal.."

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Old
01-18-2011, 11:44 AM
  #76
hockeyfanz
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
When did Burke and others say they want to trade Beauchemin? Or are you making this up to support your weak argument? Beauchemin has played well for the Leafs this year, take a look at his ATOI, and his stats not to mention what his mates coaches and Leaf mangement has said about him. Lots of noise and no substance to your posts as usual. Hate the players, coaches and management all you want, would like to see some reasoning behind it rather than the "just cause" that proceeds your many posts.

Any GM worth his salt wouldn't de-value any of his players....why would he if he plans on trading them? What good would that do? Your posts are filled with blue and white homerism....its like listening to someone talk about their kids....other people see them as spoiled brats without manners but you, the parent, sees a wonderful child with a great future. I don't think this team assembled is anything to get excited about because they are not.....

Do you think their win-loss record doesn't fairly reflect their level of skill? Should other teams just roll over and let the Leafs win because they are the storied franchise? They are what they are (a bottom feeder) and no level of denial, no "glass is half full mentality" will change that..The only thing that will change that is having better skill/talent/chemistry than the majority of other teams...If you believe the Leafs are close to that..then I can't even have a conversation with you. The beauty of sports is that the best team wins.....its not like say the ARTS where one persons' opinion cannot be questioned.

You may think that Brad Pitt is a good actor and nobody can argue that point or that Rembrandt was a good painter...or that Nickleback is a great rock band...whatever. But all I have to do is open the sports pages and see with my own two eyes...that the Leafs are the 27th best team in hockey. Thats it. I dont even have to watch the sport. In fact I don't watch basketball but I can tell you who the best teams are...by magically opening the sports pages and there is all the proof I need.

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Old
01-18-2011, 11:49 AM
  #77
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Beauch has been steady the past several games now, but one of him or Komisarek needs to go. Preferably Mike not only because his contract is looking ridiculous at this point, but also due to the emergence of Luke as one of the most physically dominating defensemen in the NHL (2nd in hits).

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:15 PM
  #78
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What would Burke want for Beauchemin? would he take futures or does he have to have NHL players now/ He could probably get some decent prospects and/or picks for a few of his players but would he really want to hurt his draft position this year even if it means maybe having an extra first and/or second and few young players who are a year or two away.

He's going to be fascinating to watch come the trade deadline if the Leafs are double digit points out of a playoff spot and multiple teams in front of him to jump on top.

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01-18-2011, 12:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Beauch has been steady the past several games now, but one of him or Komisarek needs to go. Preferably Mike not only because his contract is looking ridiculous at this point, but also due to the emergence of Luke as one of the most physically dominating defensemen in the NHL (2nd in hits).
Komisarek would be my choice to trade but I'm not really sure, he hasn't started to find his game recently too, the truth is though, we have too much money invested on the back end and Komisarek as a 3rd pairing defenceman is a luxury we can't afford.

Giguere will not be here next year, Reimer has shown a tandem of himself and Gustavsson will likely fight it out for #1 and thus saving a salary/Cap hit of 6 million, add to that Komisarek's 4.5 million Salary/Cap hit and it gives us a 10.5 million surplus to pay our free agents and add a few more free agents.

These two players will free up some serious Salary/Cap money and in a cap world, you can upgrade your talent base, by being able to take on a little extra Salary/cap, when making a trade.

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:56 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
What would Burke want for Beauchemin? would he take futures or does he have to have NHL players now/ He could probably get some decent prospects and/or picks for a few of his players but would he really want to hurt his draft position this year even if it means maybe having an extra first and/or second and few young players who are a year or two away.

He's going to be fascinating to watch come the trade deadline if the Leafs are double digit points out of a playoff spot and multiple teams in front of him to jump on top.
Fascinating?? Be more like Jonestown around here.

It's almost worth looking forward to.

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
What would Burke want for Beauchemin?
The thread title says it all.

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Old
01-18-2011, 01:00 PM
  #82
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He's been a solid signing.

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Old
01-18-2011, 01:20 PM
  #83
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“We believe in him.”

Did anyone else burst out laughing at that?
Not really, it's pretty spot on. He's been pretty good this year

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Old
01-18-2011, 01:25 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Beauch has been steady the past several games now, but one of him or Komisarek needs to go. Preferably Mike not only because his contract is looking ridiculous at this point, but also due to the emergence of Luke as one of the most physically dominating defensemen in the NHL (2nd in hits).
Komi's contract makes him untradeable unless in a salary dump situation, and he's not playing that badly to warrant that. Which leaves Beauch on the table as the most expendible defender with reasonable return. I'm sure Burke's evaluating if he can get anything in return for Beauchamin that will help the team NOW (no picks), and if not, we're most likely sticking with the crew we have till the end of the season.

It would be interesting to bring up some of the defensive prospects, I don't know, send Lebda down to give Aulie or maybe some other prospect a chance to be evaluated for a few games. Unless we're worried about Lebda getting picked up off waivers.

Also, Phaneuf's hits per game > Schenn's, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we have a fairly physical blueline. Wouldn't mind more bonecrunching hits, but even the little bruises will add up.


Last edited by 4evaBlue: 01-18-2011 at 01:41 PM.
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Old
01-18-2011, 01:31 PM
  #85
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Beauchemin is hardly untouchable.

Just because Burke claims he's never offer player X doesn't mean he hasn't listened when someone asked.

There's always a price on an asset.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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Old
01-18-2011, 01:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
The thread title says it all.
Lol

You're a beauty Moose.

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Old
01-18-2011, 01:49 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Also, Phaneuf's hits per game > Schenn's, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we have a fairly physical blueline. Wouldn't mind more bonecrunching hits, but even the little bruises will add up.
Naw, Schenn's 3.05 hits per game is higher than Phaneuf's 2.43. But agreed, we have a very physical blueline.

As for Komisarek, if he keeps playing like, sooner rather than later, Keith Aulie will jump ahead of him.

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Old
01-18-2011, 01:53 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
It's not just Burke. It's pretty much every GM. No GM tells straight up like how it is.
A GM that was 100% honest with the media would be hard-pressed to not get ripped off in every deal. He'd have no leverage at all.

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Old
01-18-2011, 02:21 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
What would Burke want for Beauchemin? would he take futures or does he have to have NHL players now/ He could probably get some decent prospects and/or picks for a few of his players but would he really want to hurt his draft position this year even if it means maybe having an extra first and/or second and few young players who are a year or two away.

He's going to be fascinating to watch come the trade deadline if the Leafs are double digit points out of a playoff spot and multiple teams in front of him to jump on top.
A young proven NHL'er + a later pick or a really good NHL ready prospect + a better pick would get Burke listening. The main piece coming back in any deal will have to be a forward.

Burke is apparently not shopping him as well, who ever wants a durable minute eating top 4 dman to bolster their blue line will have to pay his price otherwise Burke will keep him, which I have no problem with.

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Old
01-18-2011, 02:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Process of elimination isn't how you justify moving a player. It's all about what's best for the team. In teh case of Toronto, we're going to have 3 high paid defencemen next year all of whom struggle to move the puck. (Phaneuf, Komisarek, Schenn) There's room for 2 of them. Toronto's gotta decide between potentially having to take back an overpaid forward for Komisarek/Phaneuf, or getting a really good forward for Schenn.



Partially? If Beauchemin was among the league leaders and everyone else was middle of the pack, you'd have a case... but Toronto has 3 defenceman (one of which is one of the league's best puckmovers) at the top. Beauchemin is playing slightly above his head in Toronto, but the solution isn't to move him and play someone even more above their head, the solution is to get better around him.

He's been good -- considering the circumstances he has to deal with.
Good grief. Beauchemin's turnovers are systemic? Maybe partially but why don't you ask Anaheim fans how they felt about Beauchemin's turnovers. You'll hear the same thing you read here daily so maybe try watching a game. Also have to LOL at you saying Schenn can't clear the puck out of the zone. You do realize one of his best assets is puck control and first pass in the defensive zone right?

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01-18-2011, 02:56 PM
  #91
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Good conversation here and I won't interject into it other than to say the turnover stat is completely bogus.

I don't even know why the league continues to keep it given how skewed the stats are in some buildings. It's essentially useless with that big of a spread between home and road.

Beauchemin has been fine for the Leafs and would, as others mentioned, benefit from being lower down in the lineup. But there's a reason he plays as much as he does.

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01-18-2011, 03:11 PM
  #92
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Beauchemin is very valuable when he glues himself to the opposing teams best player. It's what he did in the playoffs when he was robbed of the Conn Smythe, IMO, in place of Niedermayer.

Beauchemin is not a positional defender nor does he make the best decisions with the puck when he is under pressure. he never has. Similarly, for conversation sake, Niedermayer was never a good one-on-one. Defenseman often balance each other out with the defenders who score the most points receiving the most recognition. I'd suggest Schenn and Beauchemin would be a fabulous pairing but then that would take away from the great pairing that is Schenn and Kaberle.

Just my $.02.

As for the turnover stat, they are very similar to hitting stats. Kaberle earns a hit for blowing in another player's ear. It's all about the statistician(if you want to call them that) keeping tabs on the game.

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01-18-2011, 03:21 PM
  #93
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well we can only wait and watch, i mean among our defenders, beauchemin has been definitely good and as bad as some,myself included, initial thought, he definitely proved us wrong. he's been steady and glad we have him. But that being said, he is the only one we can possible move, no one is going to buy in on lebda due to his recent play, komi and his contract is what's going to make other team avoid him in trades, schenn and phaneuf is out of question, kaberle...it's kaberle. Gunnarsson is possible but I dont know why we would part with him while he is dirt cheap to our team, so it makes beauchemin the only person expendable.

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01-18-2011, 03:21 PM
  #94
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i dont no what to think of this...beauch is better then alot make him out to be but look at our defence

Phaneuf-wont be moved
schenn- better not be moved
komi- cant be moved
kaberle-who knows
gunnarson- cant give up on him "sophmore slump?"
lebda- nuff said
----------------------------
Finger- would be with the leafs if his contract wasnt gross
aulie- Looked solid when he was here for the short stint and should be in the line up next season
Lashoff- deserves a call up cause hes ripping up the AHL
Holzer- didnt look out of place when called up
Mikus- dont no much about
Gysbers- dont no much about
Richmond-dont no much about
---------------------------
Blacker- Not ready but will be on our blue line someday

i dont no the others but im sure theres others this is all my Opinion...i relize alot of these people arnt ready to put up big minutes but i honestly beleive Komi could step up his game if given the opportunity

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Old
01-18-2011, 03:35 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Retsmra2010 View Post
Beauchemin is very valuable when he glues himself to the opposing teams best player. It's what he did in the playoffs when he was robbed of the Conn Smythe, IMO, in place of Niedermayer.

Beauchemin is not a positional defender nor does he make the best decisions with the puck when he is under pressure. he never has. Similarly, for conversation sake, Niedermayer was never a good one-on-one. Defenseman often balance each other out with the defenders who score the most points receiving the most recognition. I'd suggest Schenn and Beauchemin would be a fabulous pairing but then that would take away from the great pairing that is Schenn and Kaberle.

Just my $.02.

As for the turnover stat, they are very similar to hitting stats. Kaberle earns a hit for blowing in another player's ear. It's all about the statistician(if you want to call them that) keeping tabs on the game.
Similarly when the Ducks took out the Sharks a couple of years ago it was dismissed by many as a choke job by the Sharks and their top forwards but it was in fact a great defensive job by Beauchemin and the rest of the Ducks defence.

To me the Phaneuf-Beaucheminn duo allows Burke to tick off "shutdown defensive pairing" from his to-do list.

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01-18-2011, 03:41 PM
  #96
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But all I have to do is open the sports pages and see with my own two eyes...that the Leafs are the 27th best team in hockey.
Then we do have reason to question your eyesight.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...02011&type=LEA


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01-18-2011, 03:42 PM
  #97
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Similarly when the Ducks took out the Sharks a couple of years ago it was dismissed by many as a choke job by the Sharks and their top forwards but it was in fact a great defensive job by Beauchemin and the rest of the Ducks defence.

To me the Phaneuf-Beaucheminn duo allows Burke to tick off "shutdown defensive pairing" from his to-do list.
Phaneuf is supposed to be an offensive defensman, what the Leafs were hoping to get when they traded for Dion was big shots, big hits, and a big agitator. He's done none of this to date.

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01-18-2011, 03:51 PM
  #98
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Phaneuf is supposed to be an offensive defensman, what the Leafs were hoping to get when they traded for Dion was big shots, big hits, and a big agitator. He's done none of this to date.
I keep reading how Phaneuf never makes any big hits but I have seen quite a few. How many guys know can Iginla onto his rear end with a forearm shiver? Maybe you want to see more but I am sure players on the other team know to keep their heads up.

Maybe you want him to be an agitator and take more penalties. Why is that, may I ask?

The Leafs allow more than a goal less with Phaneuf in the lineup but I am sure someone else will chirp in about how he sucks.

Next!

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01-18-2011, 04:10 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I keep reading how Phaneuf never makes any big hits but I have seen quite a few. How many guys know can Iginla onto his rear end with a forearm shiver? Maybe you want to see more but I am sure players on the other team know to keep their heads up.

Maybe you want him to be an agitator and take more penalties. Why is that, may I ask?

The Leafs allow more than a goal less with Phaneuf in the lineup but I am sure someone else will chirp in about how he sucks.

Next!
its great that they let less goals in when phaneuf plays but the comment was regarding how he is suppose to be an offensive defenseman. he needs to produce more offense in order to earn his $6.5 million

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01-18-2011, 04:18 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
its great that they let less goals in when phaneuf plays but the comment was regarding how he is suppose to be an offensive defenseman. he needs to produce more offense in order to earn his $6.5 million
Yes. Yes, he does.

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