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"We have never offered Beauchemin in a deal.."

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Old
01-18-2011, 05:20 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
its great that they let less goals in when phaneuf plays but the comment was regarding how he is suppose to be an offensive defenseman. he needs to produce more offense in order to earn his $6.5 million
If Phaneuf tries to play more offensively while matched up against the other team's first line how do you think that is going to turn out?

Answer is: Not good.

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01-18-2011, 05:46 PM
  #102
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This leaves me wondering who else Burke could have possible offered...
I don't know how he expects this team to get better soon, not much left in the free agents since Brad Richards will most-likely sign an extension with the Stars, and we don't have our first round pick this year. What a hole.

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01-18-2011, 06:25 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Retsmra2010 View Post
Good grief. Beauchemin's turnovers are systemic? Maybe partially but why don't you ask Anaheim fans how they felt about Beauchemin's turnovers. You'll hear the same thing you read here daily so maybe try watching a game. Also have to LOL at you saying Schenn can't clear the puck out of the zone. You do realize one of his best assets is puck control and first pass in the defensive zone right?
Go ask Anaheim about Beauchemin's turnovers, in 08/09 he had 17 in 20 games which is approximately the same per game pace as Scott Neidermayer that year. In 07-08, Beauchemin had 46 giveaways in 82 games, Neidermayer had 39 giveaways in only 48 games.

Toronto's turnovers are systemic, it's why they have 3 defencemen in the league's top 10 in that department.

Schenn can clear the puck, his issue is making quiality outlet passes. That's his biggest weakness right now. Phaneuf is somewhat similar -- both guys have no issue when it comes to clearing the puck, but clearing the puck is useless if it's just going to go back to the opposition on a dump-in.

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Originally Posted by leafempire187 View Post
i dont no what to think of this...beauch is better then alot make him out to be but look at our defence

Phaneuf-wont be moved
schenn- better not be moved
komi- cant be moved
kaberle-who knows
gunnarson- cant give up on him "sophmore slump?"
lebda- nuff said
That doesn't make Beauchemin expendable. It leaves too much money committed to non-puckmovers (Phaneuf, Schenn, Komisarek) and nobody to play on the top pair alongside Phaneuf.

When building a roster, you've gotta build from the top. For better or worse, Dion Phaneuf is our top defenceman. He needs a partner, and there is no other defenceman in our system who is capable of being Phaneuf's partner at this point in time. If they want to reduce the cap hit on the blueline, they must do it by tradign excess (one of Komisarek/Phaneuf/Schenn). The decision of which one to trade is all about what the possible returns are.


Last edited by seanlinden: 01-18-2011 at 06:32 PM.
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Old
01-18-2011, 06:53 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Fascinating?? Be more like Jonestown around here.

It's almost worth looking forward to.
I snarfed. And chortled. And there was glee.

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01-18-2011, 07:08 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by exentricity View Post
This leaves me wondering who else Burke could have possible offered...
I don't know how he expects this team to get better soon, not much left in the free agents since Brad Richards will most-likely sign an extension with the Stars, and we don't have our first round pick this year. What a hole.
We do have a 1st for next year and the next 3 years after

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01-18-2011, 07:36 PM
  #106
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Those trashing Beauchemin need to learn the game and/or have their heads checked. Sure he's made some bonehead mistakes but very few compared to what people are saying.

He's playing half of every game with against the top lines night in and night out. Of course you're going to be made to look bad once in a while.

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01-18-2011, 08:17 PM
  #107
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Right, Schenn's weakness is moving the puck out of his zone. Except that, you know it's one of his biggest strengths. There aren't many defensive-defensemen in the league that protect the puck as well as he does in his zone and puts him rarefied air.

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01-18-2011, 10:03 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Retsmra2010 View Post
Right, Schenn's weakness is moving the puck out of his zone. Except that, you know it's one of his biggest strengths. There aren't many defensive-defensemen in the league that protect the puck as well as he does in his zone and puts him rarefied air.
Except that Schenn leads the league in giveaways which really hurts your point...utterly.

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01-18-2011, 10:28 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post

Toronto's turnovers are systemic, it's why they have 3 defencemen in the league's top 10 in that department.

Schenn can clear the puck, his issue is making quiality outlet passes. That's his biggest weakness right now. Phaneuf is somewhat similar -- both guys have no issue when it comes to clearing the puck, but clearing the puck is useless if it's just going to go back to the opposition on a dump-in.

snip
So is it the system they are playing? Is it that these 3 defensemen just don't have the tools to play the system? Are the forwards not going to were they need to be in time for the defensemen to move the puck cleanly?

If these 3 guys can't really make those nice long passes then why do they keep trying?

Is it a coaching issue? Coach likes his team to play a certain way and the players better mold into that style because he's a 600 career wins coach who knows best kinda scenario?

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01-19-2011, 12:13 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
Those trashing Beauchemin need to learn the game and/or have their heads checked. Sure he's made some bonehead mistakes but very few compared to what people are saying.

He's playing half of every game with against the top lines night in and night out. Of course you're going to be made to look bad once in a while.
Lately he's been doing alright, but he deserves to get trashed with some of the plays he makes. Turns the puckover like crazy, but like others have pointed out, most of the Leafs D do that.

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01-19-2011, 12:27 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hunter74 View Post
So is it the system they are playing? Is it that these 3 defensemen just don't have the tools to play the system? Are the forwards not going to were they need to be in time for the defensemen to move the puck cleanly?

If these 3 guys can't really make those nice long passes then why do they keep trying?

Is it a coaching issue? Coach likes his team to play a certain way and the players better mold into that style because he's a 600 career wins coach who knows best kinda scenario?
It's the system they're playing. The forwards are where they need to be in order to generate offensive pressure, not safely get the puck out of our zone. If we provide better puck support on the breakout, you can kiss our undersized offence goodbye. To succeed at the type of system Ron Wilson has, you'd ideally need 6 Tomas Kaberle's. A guy like Phaneuf doesn't have a lot of giveaways because he doesn't even try to make good plays the puck. It's either over to Beauchemin or hard off the boards.

It's partly a GM issue and partly a coaching issue. It's a GM's issue because his complete lack of size up front forces us to play this system. It's a coaching issue because this team fails to show up on many nights.

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Old
01-19-2011, 12:49 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Hunter74 View Post
So is it the system they are playing? Is it that these 3 defensemen just don't have the tools to play the system? Are the forwards not going to were they need to be in time for the defensemen to move the puck cleanly?

If these 3 guys can't really make those nice long passes then why do they keep trying?

Is it a coaching issue? Coach likes his team to play a certain way and the players better mold into that style because he's a 600 career wins coach who knows best kinda scenario?
600 wins means he's been in the NHL for a long time. Nothing else. He's basically a .537 winning percentage coach (600-520-10), which isn't overly impressive. Sure he won 600 games, but he also lost 520. So if you're telling me that a coach who loses almost as much as he wins knows it all, and it's the players who have to conform to his system, I'm calling BS on it.

And it's not just those 3 that have issues with turnovers. Kabs coughs up the puck tons as well. He just makes those stretch passes that people remember much more than the simple 15 feet passes out of the zone. There's so many glaring coaching issues that you can't simply put on the individual players. Defensemen scoring / turnovers, faceoffs (think it's an accident that basically anyone who took faceoffs for SJ last season was hovering in the 55-60% range?), special teams, etc etc.

The GM has the vision, and acquires the players. It's the coatch's job to get the most out of his players, and I really don't see this happening with RW in a lot of areas.

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Old
01-19-2011, 09:00 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cmillz View Post
Except that Schenn leads the league in giveaways which really hurts your point...utterly.
Except that Schenn's turnovers come from the offensive rush. Do you facepalm when you think of Schenn's turnovers? Or do you facepalm when you think of Beauchemin's? Ever ask yourself why?

Turnovers are a terrible stat to judge anyone by as has been re-iterated.

The reason I said it's partly because of the strategy Wilson employs is because Wilson made it clear he expected offense to start and sometimes end with the defense to make up for the lack of offense from the forward lines. The Leafs are the only team in the league that ask their defensemen to force offense.

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Old
01-19-2011, 12:50 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Retsmra2010 View Post
Except that Schenn's turnovers come from the offensive rush. Do you facepalm when you think of Schenn's turnovers? Or do you facepalm when you think of Beauchemin's? Ever ask yourself why?

Turnovers are a terrible stat to judge anyone by as has been re-iterated.

The reason I said it's partly because of the strategy Wilson employs is because Wilson made it clear he expected offense to start and sometimes end with the defense to make up for the lack of offense from the forward lines. The Leafs are the only team in the league that ask their defensemen to force offense.
You apparently don't watch Vancouver attacking with 4 guys below the circles half of the time.

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01-19-2011, 01:15 PM
  #115
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That giveaway/takeaway stat is garbage anyway.

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Old
01-19-2011, 01:22 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post
You apparently don't watch Vancouver attacking with 4 guys below the circles half of the time.
Vancouver don't force the offense from below their own redline, the Leafs do. The only argument could be made for Washington before BB attempting to instill close checking.

Every tame has defensemen that pinch to join the o-zone. Tell me when the coach tries to turn a komisarek into an offensive threat when the guy handles the puck like a live hand grenade.

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