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Our system has become predictable,lacks creative options, & our tempo is too S-L-O-W

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Old
01-17-2011, 11:44 PM
  #1
triplcrown
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Our system has become predictable,lacks creative options, & our tempo is too S-L-O-W

I firmly believe we have the horses to do well in this league.

TM's system was fine for initially pulling us together as a team,
and getting us some nice successes up to this season.
But now we need some new dimensions/wrinkles to be added to
our rather prosaic, traditional "Flyer's-Forecheck" system.

Our own players have commented on how a number of other teams play at faster tempos than us.
A comment was made recently by King's a personnell that our system was predictable to defenders.

I like the Barry Trotz-type puck-movement system, or a more Detroit-like system, more Euro (!!) in approach, at least offensively.

I think our guys are ready for a system with more & brisker puck-movement, hard skating and a swarming, layered, creative
offensive system/team system, whatever.
Heck, the players themselves might even enjoy it more, and produce a better product and result for the fans on the ice.

I have a fantasy of someone like Igor Larionov coming to the Kings (either soon, or this coming summer)
with a couple of crack assistants, and installing a high-tempo, fast-puck movement-based
system with very disciplined defensive positioning and strategy, along the lines of Detroit or Nashville
(or maybe the Soviet Red Army team of the 80s ).

When we lose a lot of games (like lately) we start to doubt, and discount, too many of our good young guys.

IMO, our guys just need a new set of brushes and colors to paint the masterpieces-on-ice that I still
have faith are coming (but maybe not this season so much ).

And when I think of fast-rising names like Schenn, Loktionov, Toffoli, Kitsyn, etc, I know
this is not the time to give up on these guys, even if this season ends up down the tubes, as it may.

But a new team system (and coach) may be in order, if not now, then right after this season.


Last edited by triplcrown: 01-17-2011 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
01-18-2011, 12:04 AM
  #2
DIEHARD the King fan
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Herby will disagree, but I dont think the main problem is the player personnel. WE have almost enough of the right players. Sure I would love a legitmate LW scorer. A real second line center would be nice although Stoll has strung together some good games (not tonight).

It is entirely the system and the application of players to it. Our coach wants to the system to be paramount but watching closely the last several games, it is clear that the Kings generate offense in spite of the system, or by disregarding it, not as a result of it.
The players can bring the puck in, but watching Handzus, its as if he thinks he will get docked in pay if he crosses the blue line with the puck on his stick. Brown is often the same.

This team needs an dynamic coach with an up-tempo offense. Not a run and gun but up-tempo, movement based attack that doesnt resort to the Dump and surrender possession as its first choice. Tailspin Terry has no idea how to design such an offense, much less coach it and Kompon has as much creativity as a frozen puck.

The season is not over, far from it, but it is hanging in the balance and could be over early in February if a major turnaround is not made.

I dont believe TM can get this team to do that, or possibly more correctly stated, that the team will do it for TM.

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01-18-2011, 12:04 AM
  #3
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I have my own personal preferences as well. But I'm a Kings fan.

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01-18-2011, 12:16 AM
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The titles says it all.... Faster system, more swarming, with some controlled defense. Sounds like a plan. Wish things would happen NOW!

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01-18-2011, 12:23 AM
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triplcrown
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Igor Larionov with devotee
"Listen up, kid. There's more to hockey than the forecheck
and four dots painted on the ice..."

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01-18-2011, 12:27 AM
  #6
triplcrown
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And somebody please tell Jim Fox about this:
http://www.iltripleovertime.com/

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01-18-2011, 12:32 AM
  #7
Herby
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Diehard,

You know I am usually there with you but I disagree that it's strictly the system. The Kings don't have the horses up front to run the kind of system that you guys want. Guys like Brown, Handzus, Smyth, Clifford, Simmonds, Stoll are north and south dump and chase players and all of these guys at one point or another have been top 6 players for the Kings this year. Kopitar would obviously thrive in a more up-tempo system, as would Sturm and Williams but there isn't much to get excited with up front.

These are the type of guys DL has signed because this is the kind of team and system he wants to play. He clearly favors things like grit and character over skill, how many skill players have the Kings traded for or signed since he took over?

Hiring an up tempo offensive thinking coach to come in here and coach Dean Lombardi's roster is not going to be a pretty sight.

I am just amazed with this team failing again with a different coach (and totally different type of coach) more people don't realize that it's not the coach it's the GM and the team he has built.

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01-18-2011, 02:15 AM
  #8
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The defense first while lacking offense is just setting up for failure in the post lockout NHL. The league is trying to up the goals scored per game and here we are playing perimeter offense barely getting pucks to the net. This system will never win a cup in this era.

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01-18-2011, 02:51 AM
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northernKing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Diehard,

You know I am usually there with you but I disagree that it's strictly the system. The Kings don't have the horses up front to run the kind of system that you guys want. Guys like Brown, Handzus, Smyth, Clifford, Simmonds, Stoll are north and south dump and chase players and all of these guys at one point or another have been top 6 players for the Kings this year. Kopitar would obviously thrive in a more up-tempo system, as would Sturm and Williams but there isn't much to get excited with up front.

These are the type of guys DL has signed because this is the kind of team and system he wants to play. He clearly favors things like grit and character over skill, how many skill players have the Kings traded for or signed since he took over?

Hiring an up tempo offensive thinking coach to come in here and coach Dean Lombardi's roster is not going to be a pretty sight.

I am just amazed with this team failing again with a different coach (and totally different type of coach) more people don't realize that it's not the coach it's the GM and the team he has built.
Totally agree! How can we play a speed game with slow players and guys who just "chip and chase" the puck all night. I really feel for Kopitar as this guy has star written all over him yet has never played with another top line talent. Scary to think what numbers he'd have with Cammy riding shotgun. Heck even Staal in Carolina has had skilled players like Jokinen and Skinner with him this year at times. Kopitar reminds me of Sundin in TOR were he NEVER had any legit linemate scoring support.

Also while I love LA's board game when Handzus and Simmonds play together on the shutdown line cause it keeps the other teams topline in its own end and away from the puck, it is hard to watch ALL 4 lines play this way. How sad is it when I get excited as a Kings fan to see Richardson get promoted in hopes his speed and puck skill will bring more scoring chances?

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01-18-2011, 02:58 AM
  #10
DryIslandBartender
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Someone print this thread and take it with them GM Breakfast meeting with the season ticket holders.

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01-18-2011, 08:18 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Diehard,

You know I am usually there with you but I disagree that it's strictly the system. The Kings don't have the horses up front to run the kind of system that you guys want. Guys like Brown, Handzus, Smyth, Clifford, Simmonds, Stoll are north and south dump and chase players and all of these guys at one point or another have been top 6 players for the Kings this year. Kopitar would obviously thrive in a more up-tempo system, as would Sturm and Williams but there isn't much to get excited with up front.

These are the type of guys DL has signed because this is the kind of team and system he wants to play. He clearly favors things like grit and character over skill, how many skill players have the Kings traded for or signed since he took over?

Hiring an up tempo offensive thinking coach to come in here and coach Dean Lombardi's roster is not going to be a pretty sight.

I am just amazed with this team failing again with a different coach (and totally different type of coach) more people don't realize that it's not the coach it's the GM and the team he has built.
I am amazed as well

What's more amazing and interesting watching the game is that late in the 3rd quarter one of the analyst at Versus said "the Kings need to be more creative here and take it down the middle and not always take it on the outside." "They are so predictable." "And Dallas is shutting them down." Did anyone hear that?

Maybe our system is outdated? I think part of it is the system. We are just too stationary on offense. Our offense on the 3rd quarter looked like an Andy Murray 2.0 version.

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01-18-2011, 08:26 AM
  #12
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Totally agree! How can we play a speed game with slow players and guys who just "chip and chase" the puck all night. I really feel for Kopitar as this guy has star written all over him yet has never played with another top line talent. Scary to think what numbers he'd have with Cammy riding shotgun. Heck even Staal in Carolina has had skilled players like Jokinen and Skinner with him this year at times. Kopitar reminds me of Sundin in TOR were he NEVER had any legit linemate scoring support.

Also while I love LA's board game when Handzus and Simmonds play together on the shutdown line cause it keeps the other teams topline in its own end and away from the puck, it is hard to watch ALL 4 lines play this way. How sad is it when I get excited as a Kings fan to see Richardson get promoted in hopes his speed and puck skill will bring more scoring chances?
I feel for Kopi as well. I am one of his hardest critic over the years. But I see his vast improvements on his game and now I see is that we have 2 problems: Part of is the "system" and second our players are slow.... I feel for Kopi.

Loktionov will be wasting his talents if don't change our system and have the right players to go along with him and Kopitar.

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01-18-2011, 09:22 AM
  #13
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It worries me when you see a collective drag on the team. It's one thing to have individual players hitting their slumps and such, but the team as a whole appears to have slown down and lost much of its swagger and edge.

I don't know if that's a symptom of the system or of the coaching.

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01-18-2011, 09:50 AM
  #14
DIEHARD the King fan
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It worries me when you see a collective drag on the team. It's one thing to have individual players hitting their slumps and such, but the team as a whole appears to have slown down and lost much of its swagger and edge.

I don't know if that's a symptom of the system or of the coaching.
One and the same my friend, ONE AND THE SAME.
They talked about it the other night. They mentioned that TM asked Stoll to slow down and wait for the play to catch up to him. I almost shot beer through my nose. Yeah lets slow down ands wait for the play to catch up. That sounds like TM AND the system to me.

Never speed it up or break out as fast as possible. Don't Push the defense back on its heels.

I remember as a kid this safety advisory campaign that was run, and it showed the after effects of bad accidents, and the final words were flashed on the screen with definite impact: SPEED KILLS

Its the same in hockey, and in the post lock-out era that is where the game is at. But dont tell Tailspin that, he might blow a gasket! (or crack, because thats what statues do)

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01-18-2011, 09:51 AM
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after the first period it seemed that the stars adjusted to our SYSTEM and it appeared we never made two stick to stick passes the rest of the night,sad.the coaches have to make adjustments on the fly and they do not seem capable of this,it is ok to dump and chase but every time down and every powerplay, even the annoncers on versus talked about it

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01-18-2011, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Diehard,

You know I am usually there with you but I disagree that it's strictly the system. The Kings don't have the horses up front to run the kind of system that you guys want. Guys like Brown, Handzus, Smyth, Clifford, Simmonds, Stoll are north and south dump and chase players and all of these guys at one point or another have been top 6 players for the Kings this year. Kopitar would obviously thrive in a more up-tempo system, as would Sturm and Williams but there isn't much to get excited with up front.

These are the type of guys DL has signed because this is the kind of team and system he wants to play. He clearly favors things like grit and character over skill, how many skill players have the Kings traded for or signed since he took over?

Hiring an up tempo offensive thinking coach to come in here and coach Dean Lombardi's roster is not going to be a pretty sight.

I am just amazed with this team failing again with a different coach (and totally different type of coach) more people don't realize that it's not the coach it's the GM and the team he has built.
You make a good point but in the past month or so, the Kings have hardly showed any character & grit (besides the Doughty hit). Last night, I think the only players finishing their checks were Richardson & Greene . . . It's like, DL equips this team with gritty players and they stop playing gritty . . .

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01-18-2011, 02:01 PM
  #17
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How comes i was market for 3 years as burning Murray hater with no patience
and always questioning Lombardi ????????

I mean you guys open now threads that include exactly for what you guys
flamed me since years..........


I have a question for you, did you really think there was another chance than running the team into the ground with this coaching staff and a Gm without any special skill ? I started as a big Lombardi supporter but i figured out really fast
that he is just making the obvious and the safe plays. Everyone who is active in any sport knows that this style leads the mediocre at best.

When i post the team roster for 3 years it is not for making some of you angry
it is reality. We have major holes just filled with panic moves.

on a regular NHL team roster it would like that:

XXX - Kopitar - Brown
Smyth - XXX - Williams
Parse - Stoll - Simmonds
Clifford - Lewis - XXX

Doughty - Scuderi
Johnson - XXX
Greene - (youngster)

Bernier - Quick

This are too many X's to compete in a strong western conference.
And these are holes very difficult to fix. The worst thing is these X's where knocking our door and were asking to play for us.

I could puke when i have to listen that Heatley had us on his list and Lombardi
and Hextall found something what "raises red flags"

Just for the fact..... Ponikarovsky had 3 goals playing 20 games with Crosby and Malkin...... how is that not raising red flags ?????

Sturm is nothing but garbage everyone knows that... how is that not raising red flags

Stoll on the point at PP...... even the opponent comentators figuring out after 1.5 minutes that this system is predictable.... how is that not raising red flags

The opponents knows exactly how we are playing and who is important... how is that not raising red flags.........................

But a 40+ goal scorer is coming and wants to play for us...this raises red flags



Mix all that with Murrays system .. well i don't call it a system.
When we are in our own zone everyone has to leave the position to run to our net.
Isn't a defense system.
Same with offense give one the puck, run in front of the net and let the blueliner shoot the puck into the crowd doesn't matter there is a shootblocker or not isn't an offensive system.
Why he is teaching the guys to take the speed out and give away one of the most dangerous weapons is far beyond me.
Murray coached some of the most talented squads of the NHL and he hasn't got a single Stanley Cup ring............. this raises a red flag for me....

I could go on with million different things here......
from how we enter the zone to the not using the mobility of our defender
but that leads to nothing and you guys already knows my points.........

Go Kings Go


Last edited by Kurrilino: 01-18-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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01-18-2011, 02:05 PM
  #18
outofrange
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Originally Posted by triplcrown View Post

Igor Larionov with devotee
"Listen up, kid. There's more to hockey than the forecheck
and four dots painted on the ice..."
OH MAN don't even tease. I would probably cry if Larionov became the Kings coach.

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01-18-2011, 02:09 PM
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damacles1156
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You make a good point but in the past month or so, the Kings have hardly showed any character & grit (besides the Doughty hit). Last night, I think the only players finishing their checks were Richardson & Greene . . . It's like, DL equips this team with gritty players and they stop playing gritty . . .
The Lack of Character and Grit in the last few weeks is disturbing. But don't worry, that's all TM's fault and when he is gone all will be well.

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01-18-2011, 02:26 PM
  #20
outofrange
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The Lack of Character and Grit in the last few weeks is disturbing. But don't worry, that's all TM's fault and when he is gone all will be well.
That's not all TM's fault lol. Maybe the players realize that it doesn't matter how gritty they are because if it's the same old system they are going to playing then they will be limited and shut down. Maybe they realize what Murray doesn't. Dumping and chasing the puck in is only going to get you so far.

Also in the new Hammond update Murray effectively blames Bernier for both of the PP goals LOL. Never mind the fact that the team only generated five shots in the third and that he didn't make any adjustments to help create more flow in the attacking zone when it was obvious that the Stars had adjusted.

I guess Bernier was also supposed to score more than a single goal last night and he couldn't get it done.....

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01-18-2011, 02:28 PM
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That's not all TM's fault lol. Maybe the players realize that it doesn't matter how gritty they are because if it's the same old system they are going to playing then they will be limited and shut down. Maybe they realize what Murray doesn't. Dumping and chasing the puck in is only going to get you so far.

Also in the new Hammond update Murray effectively blames Bernier for both of the PP goals LOL. Never mind the fact that the team only generated five shots in the third and that he didn't make any adjustments to help create more flow in the attacking zone when it was obvious that the Stars had adjusted.

I guess Bernier was also supposed to score more than a single goal last night and he couldn't get it done.....
Your post is basically agreeing with me that TM is the cause of the all the Kings problems.

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01-18-2011, 02:39 PM
  #22
Sydor25
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Murray blames the first goal on Bernier, but fails to mention that the Kings win the draw and Scuderi had full possession and sent it right to the Stars defenseman. After the turnover, the Kings fail to cover the front and you get a tipped goal.

I love when a coach blames the goalie for PP goals against, especially when his team scores 1 goal. How many teams win a game when scoring 1 goal? Come on, JT, what is the league record when scoring 1 goal?


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01-18-2011, 03:22 PM
  #23
Gentle Ben Kenobi
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If we lose tonight, I hope to wake up to news reports that TM has been fired

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01-18-2011, 03:25 PM
  #24
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Murray blames the first goal on Bernier, but fails to mention that the Kings win the draw and Scuderi had full possession and sent it right to the Stars defenseman. After the turnover, the Kings fail to cover the front and you get a tipped goal.

I love when a coach blames the goalie for PP goals against, especially when his team scores 1 goal. How many teams win a game when scoring 1 goal? Come on, JT, what is the league record when scoring 1 goal?
It's because I am bored, but teams in the month of December went 2 for 61 when scoring only 1 goal.

The only win was PHX and Buff.

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01-18-2011, 03:30 PM
  #25
Beauty, eh?
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Murray is simply not cut out to coach in today's game. Yes, the roster is yes than ideal but honestly he is as unprepared as a coach can get these days. The style of play he has employed simply DOES NOT WORK for the roster he has. And unfortunately for us, he is incapable of making the necessary changes needed to turn this around.

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