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Old
01-21-2011, 02:02 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
So then let's do it this way. When was the last time a potential top 5 pick was dealt for an immediate upgrade? Age, Salary, additional pieces, throw them out the window for a minute. Quite simply, how often are those picks dealt (and I'm not talking about moving up or down a spot or two)?
When was the last time an all-star winger, 2 time richard winner, future hall of famer and one of the leagues best leaders was available in a situation that wasn't because they were a pending UFA or the player wanted out

also... when was the last time a team held a potential lottery pick that felt they were a contender?


players like Iginla almost never become available for trade with 2 full years left on their contract and contending teams almost never have potential lottery picks...

this is a unique situation all around... and it shouldn't be shocking if the only pick and/or prospect not on the table is Seguin

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01-21-2011, 02:18 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
When was the last time an all-star winger, 2 time richard winner, future hall of famer and one of the leagues best leaders was available in a situation that wasn't because they were a pending UFA or the player wanted out

also... when was the last time a team held a potential lottery pick that felt they were a contender?


players like Iginla almost never become available for trade with 2 full years left on their contract and contending teams almost never have potential lottery picks...

this is a unique situation all around... and it shouldn't be shocking if the only pick and/or prospect not on the table is Seguin
Brad Richards?
The Stars gave up backup goalie Mike Smith, forwards Jussi Jokinen and Jeff Halpern and a fourth-round pick.


Richards was 27 years old, Conn Smythe winner.
When GMs make trades they are looking to the future not the past. Richards was just coming in to his prime and was moved for spare parts. The fact that Iginla is a 2-time Rocket Richards winner has little impact. That was 7 years ago when he was 26. He's scored over 40 goals once since the lock-out (50 goals, great season). He's currently playing at 33 goal pace. That is what he is at this point.


When was the last time a player was moved for another team top prospect, 24-year-old #1 center and a top-5 pick? Those type of returns don't happen. Look at what Thornton, Richards, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Hossa all returned. And you can make the case those players had more value then Iginla does today.

A lot of this hinges on if Calgary determines it's time to blow it up and rebuild. If they do, and Iginla is moved in the next 6 months, it won't be for what Flame Fans are hoping for.
If Calgary holds on to him, his value will continue to drop and Calgary is even further behind the 8-ball. They have one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL.

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01-21-2011, 02:35 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Brad Richards?
The Stars gave up backup goalie Mike Smith, forwards Jussi Jokinen and Jeff Halpern and a fourth-round pick.


Richards was 27 years old, Conn Smythe winner.
When GMs make trades they are looking to the future not the past. Richards was just coming in to his prime and was moved for spare parts. The fact that Iginla is a 2-time Rocket Richards winner has little impact. That was 7 years ago when he was 26. He's scored over 40 goals once since the lock-out (50 goals, great season). He's currently playing at 33 goal pace. That is what he is at this point.


When was the last time a player was moved for another team top prospect, 24-year-old #1 center and a top-5 pick? Those type of returns don't happen. Look at what Thornton, Richards, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Hossa all returned. And you can make the case those players had more value then Iginla does today.

A lot of this hinges on if Calgary determines it's time to blow it up and rebuild. If they do, and Iginla is moved in the next 6 months, it won't be for what Flame Fans are hoping for.
If Calgary holds on to him, his value will continue to drop and Calgary is even further behind the 8-ball. They have one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL.
Great post

This point is no shot at Iginla, he's a great player, high character & at 33yrs old can still score between 30 & 35 goals that's impressive. I'd love him in a #12 Boston uniform. However not at the cost of $7m caphit per yr, that's just too high for that production. He is 33, he is productive, but I wouldn't trade (one of Larsson, Landeskog, Nugent-Hopkins, Couterier) + Krejci + Colborne for Iginla. No way. So while Iginla is a good fit in Boston, his contract is not.

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01-21-2011, 02:37 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
When was the last time an all-star winger, 2 time richard winner, future hall of famer and one of the leagues best leaders was available in a situation that wasn't because they were a pending UFA or the player wanted out

also... when was the last time a team held a potential lottery pick that felt they were a contender?


players like Iginla almost never become available for trade with 2 full years left on their contract and contending teams almost never have potential lottery picks...

this is a unique situation all around... and it shouldn't be shocking if the only pick and/or prospect not on the table is Seguin
Answering a question with a question is a faux pas, for shame. That said, if you believe Maple Leaf fans, every year for the past 5 in regards to Kaberle.

If we're being realistic, being signed for an additional two years at age 34 and 35 for an additional 7 million dollars each season (both real money and cap dollars) isn't exactly a positive.

But I guess if you're looking for comparables (exclude all the specific crap about future HoF'er, and 2 time Richard winner as neither pertain to how he will play out his contract or this year - if that stuff mattered more then performance Mark Recchi would be worth more then a Lashoff and Karsums), and I guess your looking for top end point producers traded with term left on their contract. A couple that come to mind quickly?

Dany Heatley - Not of the power forward mold, not nearly as heralded a leader but a far younger, a better goal scorer, better point producer. Went for Michalek, Cheechoo, 2nd.

Brad Richards - Again, not of the power forward mold but far younger, signed long term, Conn Smythe, produced at similar point pace as Iginla is now, and solid leader in his own right. Went for Mike Smith, Jeff Halpern, Jussi Jokinen and a 4th rounder.

I'd say Joe Thornton, but I don't feel like opening up old wounds.

I have a feeling I'll get the standard response here however explaining why no high end point producer to ever be traded was exactly like Iginla.

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Old
01-21-2011, 02:41 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Either way the Flames won't have the upper hand.
Sorry dude, but Calgary does have the upper-hand.

Really we don't have to trade him. If someone wants him, they're more than welcome to make an offer.

Since we don't have to move him, we won't... unless the offer is exactly right. You can afford to be picky when you're dealing the face of the franchise, and Feaster knows this.

Sorry, but when you can be picky, you have the upper hand.

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Old
01-21-2011, 02:49 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Brad Richards?
The Stars gave up backup goalie Mike Smith, forwards Jussi Jokinen and Jeff Halpern and a fourth-round pick.


Richards was 27 years old, Conn Smythe winner.
When GMs make trades they are looking to the future not the past. Richards was just coming in to his prime and was moved for spare parts. The fact that Iginla is a 2-time Rocket Richards winner has little impact. That was 7 years ago when he was 26. He's scored over 40 goals once since the lock-out (50 goals, great season). He's currently playing at 33 goal pace. That is what he is at this point.


When was the last time a player was moved for another team top prospect, 24-year-old #1 center and a top-5 pick? Those type of returns don't happen. Look at what Thornton, Richards, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Hossa all returned. And you can make the case those players had more value then Iginla does today.

A lot of this hinges on if Calgary determines it's time to blow it up and rebuild. If they do, and Iginla is moved in the next 6 months, it won't be for what Flame Fans are hoping for.
If Calgary holds on to him, his value will continue to drop and Calgary is even further behind the 8-ball. They have one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL.
Richards was dealt because of his contract... the team couldn't afford it

Richards earned a huge contract because of his Conn Smythe and a 91 point season in 05/06... then he never showed that ability again until last year...

if you can't see the difference between Tampa NEEDING to sell Richards and Calgary CHOOSING to move Iginla then there is no point in arguing with you... because these are not similar situations at all

as for Heatley he requested a trade... again completely different situation...

Hossa and Kovalchuk were pending UFAs... again not the same situation...

Thornton is the closest of your exmaples but lets be honest Thornton was being trashed hard in Boston because he went pointless in the 03/04 playoffs... at the very least the fans were not happy with him and it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't happy there anymore either... but again the return was a different situation... the Bruins did not move Thornton to rebuild... they got solid, established NHLers... Sturm had proved himself as a 20-25 goal scorer with 30 goal potential... Brad Stuart had established himself as a 30 point defenseman who was solid in his own end with a mean streak...

while the Thornton trade turned out to be bad for the Bruins its not like they didn't get a couple of very good players in return... they likely would have done better had they gone for picks and prospects instead of NHLers and guys who have played in the NHL have more value than guys who haven't

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Old
01-21-2011, 02:51 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Answering a question with a question is a faux pas, for shame. That said, if you believe Maple Leaf fans, every year for the past 5 in regards to Kaberle.

If we're being realistic, being signed for an additional two years at age 34 and 35 for an additional 7 million dollars each season (both real money and cap dollars) isn't exactly a positive.

But I guess if you're looking for comparables (exclude all the specific crap about future HoF'er, and 2 time Richard winner as neither pertain to how he will play out his contract or this year - if that stuff mattered more then performance Mark Recchi would be worth more then a Lashoff and Karsums), and I guess your looking for top end point producers traded with term left on their contract. A couple that come to mind quickly?

Dany Heatley - Not of the power forward mold, not nearly as heralded a leader but a far younger, a better goal scorer, better point producer. Went for Michalek, Cheechoo, 2nd.

Brad Richards - Again, not of the power forward mold but far younger, signed long term, Conn Smythe, produced at similar point pace as Iginla is now, and solid leader in his own right. Went for Mike Smith, Jeff Halpern, Jussi Jokinen and a 4th rounder.

I'd say Joe Thornton, but I don't feel like opening up old wounds.

I have a feeling I'll get the standard response here however explaining why no high end point producer to ever be traded was exactly like Iginla.
i essentially replied to your post in my previous one just above this... those are all different situations... if you read the other post i explain how in there

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Old
01-21-2011, 02:53 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Sorry dude, but Calgary does have the upper-hand.

Really we don't have to trade him. If someone wants him, they're more than welcome to make an offer.

Since we don't have to move him, we won't... unless the offer is exactly right. You can afford to be picky when you're dealing the face of the franchise, and Feaster knows this.

Sorry, but when you can be picky, you have the upper hand.
If Iginla is moved it will be because Calgary has decided to do so because they feel it's their best path to take going forward. Sure they don't HAVE to move him, but then they aren't taking the route they've identified as the one that makes the most sense now are they? The acquiring team isn't really being forced into anything at all, as he's just being identified as an option. There are others out there.

If they don't move him when they determined it's smarter to do so, they're mishandling a serious asset. But who knows, maybe they hold on to him another year, maybe two, but it's a risk. Calgary won't be competing anytime soon, and Iginla's value is almost certainly likely to decrease.

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Old
01-21-2011, 02:58 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Sorry dude, but Calgary does have the upper-hand.

Really we don't have to trade him. If someone wants him, they're more than welcome to make an offer.

Since we don't have to move him, we won't... unless the offer is exactly right. You can afford to be picky when you're dealing the face of the franchise, and Feaster knows this.

Sorry, but when you can be picky, you have the upper hand.
So what is the alternate option? Keep him & continue to suck? Maybe try trading him again next year at 34yrs old & another playoff DNQ? Wait until he's in his ufa year & trade him then at 35yrs old? His value continues to decrease.

Sorry to break the news to you but nobody is going to come calling looking to offer young #1 centers, top prospects & lottery picks for a 33yr old winger w/ a $7m cap hit.

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01-21-2011, 03:07 PM
  #160
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why do certain Boston fans say "33 year old" like he's about to retire and not simply signed right through his prime?

2 years ago he was #1 in every training camp fitness test
last year he was #1 in every training camp fitness test
this year he was #1 in fitness again (but lost to Brett Sutter and only Sutter in a single endurance test)

if he trains in Boston next year he will be in the top 3 in overall fitness if not #1

You arent trading for 38 year old last chance (2-3 years) at a cup Iginla. Stop implying such.

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01-21-2011, 03:08 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
So what is the alternate option? Keep him & continue to suck? Maybe try trading him again next year at 34yrs old & another playoff DNQ? Wait until he's in his ufa year & trade him then at 35yrs old? His value continues to decrease.

Sorry to break the news to you but nobody is going to come calling looking to offer young #1 centers, top prospects & lottery picks for a 33yr old winger w/ a $7m cap hit.
Perhaps in two years, when some of our prospects have developed further, and we've moved out other dead weight, Iginla is a big part of the team going forward? It's entirely possible. Just because you beieve in 'doom and gloom' theories doesn't mean it's necessarily going that way. Aging players also don't 'have to' be traded. Iginla is one of those rare breeds who will likely be good long into his late 30's.... which is still quite a long ways off. Your implication that 'older' players get crappier is asinine. Yzerman and Sakic disagree with you. Iginla is in his early 30's still. Yikes.

It is possible to believe our team can get better. With Iginla on this team.

You also seem like you are implying that Iginla is the reason Calgary is playing poorly right now.

Sorry, but he's not.

Let's just leave this at you having your opinion, and myself having mine. No one is right or wrong in this situation.

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Old
01-21-2011, 03:10 PM
  #162
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Colborne
Wheeler
Ryder
Boston's 1st in 2011

for

Iginla

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01-21-2011, 03:11 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Sorry to break the news to you but nobody is going to come calling looking to offer young #1 centers, top prospects & lottery picks for a 33yr old winger w/ a $7m cap hit.
If Iggy is actually on the block, just watch what happens at the trade deadline. Andy Sutton got a second round pick last year at the deadline. And Iginla is a much . . . . MUCH . . . better player.

Like I said before, GM's will do what they need to win the Stanley Cup, not simply draft high picks. If your team can win a Cup this year, you go for it. That's the whole point.

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01-21-2011, 03:11 PM
  #164
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If I was Calgary I would trade Iginla right now for the following reason.

Sure he was a great player yet he has slowed down do to age.
You must get something for him when you are a team that is not going to make the playoffs and is a rebuilding team.

Look at Toronto for example, they could have got something for Sundin yet they waited to long and he left and T.O. got nothing.

They could have traded him for a younger prospect or picks or anything, yet they got nothing for him.

Is Iginla going to get better as the years roll on? Not a chance, trade him at the deadline and get something for him before it is too late.

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01-21-2011, 03:13 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Havok89 View Post
Krejci
Tor. 1st
Salary dump

For...

Iginla
Regehr
3rd round pick
The Flames don't have a second or third in 2011.
Not an Oiler fan but how about;
A younger cheaper Hemsky for David Krejci & Boston's 1st?


Last edited by Bobs your uncle: 01-21-2011 at 03:24 PM.
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01-21-2011, 03:13 PM
  #166
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If I was Calgary I would trade Iginla right now for the following reason.

Sure he was a great player yet he has slowed down do to age.
Iginla on the decline would still be better than most NHL hockey players are at their best.

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01-21-2011, 03:21 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
The TOR 1st is totally in play for the right package. Iginla isn't that package. He is a phenominal player whom would be a great fit in Boston. But his $7m cap hit for 2 more years is far too rich for us, & too much for a 33yr old 30 goal scorer. If Iginla were a $5m cap hit I think he'd be a serious target for contenders, but at his current cap hit, most teams will be reluctant to acquire him. Not to mention the assets that Calgary fans are suggesting it would take to acquire him. I can name numerous players I'd trade the TOR 1st for, unfortunately Jarome Iginla isn't one of them.
The logic is strong with this one.

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01-21-2011, 03:23 PM
  #168
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The logic is strong with this one.
I'm concerned you guys are overvaluing that Toronto pick, a bit. Remember, it's likely not top-three. May not even be Top-5.

Such hype over a pick should be reserved for Edmonton's or New Jersey's pick. I'm curious to know that if Iginla can't get a pick like that, then who might.

Crosby? Malkin? Ovechkin? The Sedin sisters? who?

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01-21-2011, 04:11 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame View Post
I'm concerned you guys are overvaluing that Toronto pick, a bit. Remember, it's likely not top-three. May not even be Top-5.

Such hype over a pick should be reserved for Edmonton's or New Jersey's pick. I'm curious to know that if Iginla can't get a pick like that, then who might.

Crosby? Malkin? Ovechkin? The Sedin sisters? who?
I think people waaaay overvalue picks on this board. There's so many armchair GM's / keyboard warriors here that think their Top-10 pick is the next coming of Gretzky it's ridiculous.

Thank God the posters here aren't actual GM's. If they were, no one would ever win the Stanley Cup because everyone would be busy rebuilding and creaming their pants, overhyping all their prospects.

By the way HF, TO's 1st WILL be in play if Iginla is going to Boston. If you don't like that, tough beans. If you want a premium players who will lead your team and help you in the playoffs and give you a better chance to win the Cup, you have to give up assets for it. The TO pick is what will interest Calgary the most.

/thread.

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01-21-2011, 04:31 PM
  #170
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why do certain Boston fans say "33 year old" like he's about to retire and not simply signed right through his prime?
its funny because you don't hear them *****ing about Chara being older than Iginla (albeit only a few months) and having the next 6 years of his contract at almost the same cap hit as Iginla... if Iginla's contract is an albatross like so many want to make it out to be then what the hell is Chara's?...

they need to realize that much like Chara, Iginla's age isn't really a factor

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01-21-2011, 05:06 PM
  #171
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its funny because you don't hear them *****ing about Chara being older than Iginla (albeit only a few months) and having the next 6 years of his contract at almost the same cap hit as Iginla... if Iginla's contract is an albatross like so many want to make it out to be then what the hell is Chara's?...

they need to realize that much like Chara, Iginla's age isn't really a factor
Defensemen, historically, can play at a high level longer then forwards. This is the same reason I would take Pronger (older then both) over both today.

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01-21-2011, 05:26 PM
  #172
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[QUOTE=Ozy_Flame;30365628]I'm concerned you guys are overvaluing that Toronto pick, a bit. Remember, it's likely not top-three. May not even be Top-5.

Such hype over a pick should be reserved for Edmonton's or New Jersey's pick. I'm curious to know that if Iginla can't get a pick like that, then who might.

Crosby? Malkin? Ovechkin? The Sedin sisters? who?[/QUOTE]





We heard the same thing last year..

I'll be happy w/ a top-10 pick... if it ends up being top-5 then great! Just another potential stud to add to our roster.

"Who?" Parise.

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01-21-2011, 05:26 PM
  #173
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I think people waaaay overvalue picks on this board. There's so many armchair GM's / keyboard warriors here that think their Top-10 pick is the next coming of Gretzky it's ridiculous.

Thank God the posters here aren't actual GM's. If they were, no one would ever win the Stanley Cup because everyone would be busy rebuilding and creaming their pants, overhyping all their prospects.

By the way HF, TO's 1st WILL be in play if Iginla is going to Boston. If you don't like that, tough beans. If you want a premium players who will lead your team and help you in the playoffs and give you a better chance to win the Cup, you have to give up assets for it. The TO pick is what will interest Calgary the most.

/thread.
Why will the be so interested in it if it's so overrated? I mean, if it's not a top 3 pick it's pretty much just like every other pick, isn't it? That's what we're saying here I think. If that's the case, it's value shouldn't be much and shouldn't need to be included...


Anyways, the Flames aren't dealing Iginla and Boston shouldn't take him on- it looks too much money into too few players all 33 and up. It makes the contract situation a bit too messy. Pass.

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01-21-2011, 05:32 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
I think people waaaay overvalue picks on this board. There's so many armchair GM's / keyboard warriors here that think their Top-10 pick is the next coming of Gretzky it's ridiculous.

Thank God the posters here aren't actual GM's. If they were, no one would ever win the Stanley Cup because everyone would be busy rebuilding and creaming their pants, overhyping all their prospects.

By the way HF, TO's 1st WILL be in play if Iginla is going to Boston. If you don't like that, tough beans. If you want a premium players who will lead your team and help you in the playoffs and give you a better chance to win the Cup, you have to give up assets for it. The TO pick is what will interest Calgary the most.

/thread.
When a team tries to trade with Tampa, they no doubt have the most interest in Stamkos.

Doesn't mean they ever had a hope in hell of getting him.

It's nice to pretend your player will yield the best possible return at the deadline. It just never happens, but if it's what you need to think, it's what you need to think.

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01-21-2011, 05:43 PM
  #175
Ice Cream Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
When a team tries to trade with Tampa, they no doubt have the most interest in Stamkos.

Doesn't mean they ever had a hope in hell of getting him.

It's nice to pretend your player will yield the best possible return at the deadline. It just never happens, but if it's what you need to think, it's what you need to think.

Are you comparing TO's pick to Stamkos?

LOL.

By the way, the Isles receiving a 2nd rounder for Andy freakin' Sutton, the Oilers receiving a younger defensemen and a 3rd rounder for Staios, and Florida receiving a 2nd round for Domenic Moore proves your statement completely invalid. And that's just off the top of my head.

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