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Old
02-08-2011, 03:00 PM
  #651
Capn Brown
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Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
Well do we want x-Kopitar-Brown, Smyth-Stoll-Williams or do we want Vanek-Kopitar-Brown, Smyth-Stoll-x heading into next year?

Vanek is too expensive. These days, Cap Space is any given team's MVP. Teams no longer win Stanley Cups; GMs win Stanley Cups. Don't believe me? Just ask the 2009-2010 Chicago Blackhawks, but be prepared to travel to a few different cities to get their take on the matter.

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02-08-2011, 03:15 PM
  #652
Gentle Ben Kenobi
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Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
Well do we want x-Kopitar-Brown, Smyth-Stoll-Williams or do we want Vanek-Kopitar-Brown, Smyth-Stoll-x heading into next year?
I want no x's heading in to next year

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Old
02-08-2011, 03:26 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Capn Brown View Post
Vanek is too expensive. These days, Cap Space is any given team's MVP. Teams no longer win Stanley Cups; GMs win Stanley Cups. Don't believe me? Just ask the 2009-2010 Chicago Blackhawks, but be prepared to travel to a few different cities to get their take on the matter.
I'll take what Chicago has, they're still a very good team.

Next year will be a squeeze, but its certainly doable with Vanek in our lineup. Once Smyth's money is off the books we're back to having plenty of wiggle room.

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Old
02-08-2011, 03:31 PM
  #654
Ollie Weeks
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
I want no x's heading in to next year
Sturm and Williams it is!

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Old
02-08-2011, 04:51 PM
  #655
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Seems Boston has Toronto's 1st up for grabs. What would ya give for it. Should be a lottery pick.

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:01 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
Seems Boston has Toronto's 1st up for grabs. What would ya give for it. Should be a lottery pick.
Savard's concussion opened up some cap space for them. They are looking for someone to help them now, which is something we won't be able to provide considering we are looking for help now too.

It isn't good for us if Boston is waving this pick around.

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:34 PM
  #657
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I don't necessarily disagree with what some of you are saying, but acquiring Vanek means a current roster player is likely gone due to CAP constraints; most likely Williams, which means there'll be a gaping hole on RW.

Vanek-Kopitar-xxxx
Smyth-Stoll/Schenn-Brown

How much better is Vanek than a healthy Williams? They're both basically 60 point players, Vanek is more of a sniper, but that's about all he's got on JW.

Vanek:51gp, 19g, 25a, 44pts
Williams:53gp, 19g, 23a, 42pts

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:35 PM
  #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
Savard's concussion opened up some cap space for them. They are looking for someone to help them now, which is something we won't be able to provide considering we are looking for help now too.

It isn't good for us if Boston is waving this pick around.
Exactly..........

The market was difficult before. 14 teams in the west looking for improvement
and 2-3 teams are selling.
Now with Boston's pick available guess where potential improvements going.

Sad situation.

We should just stay out of any bidding race and hope best for Loktionov, Schenn and Toffoly

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:52 PM
  #659
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I don't necessarily disagree with what some of you are saying, but acquiring Vanek means a current roster player is likely gone due to CAP constraints; most likely Williams, which means there'll be a gaping hole on RW.

Vanek-Kopitar-xxxx
Smyth-Stoll/Schenn-Brown

How much better is Vanek than a healthy Williams? They're both basically 60 point players, Vanek is more of a sniper, but that's about all he's got on JW.

Vanek:51gp, 19g, 25a, 44pts
Williams:53gp, 19g, 23a, 42pts
Using the cap calculator on capgeek.com, it is possible for the Kings to add a big salary like Vanek's and retain Williams. I took a stab at giving marginal salary increases to role players (Richardson, Lewis, Martinez), and this is assuming the Kings can retain Williams at $3.5M and Doughty at $4.5M. The lineup includes Schenn with his bonus as well. I left Simmonds out assuming he is dealt if such a major transaction is to take place.

Here's what it looks like:

FORWARDS
Thomas Vanek ($7.142m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
Ryan Smyth ($6.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.140m) / Justin Williams ($4.500m)
Kyle Clifford ($0.870m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.600m) / Scott Parse ($0.900m)
Brad Richardson ($0.950m) / Trevor Lewis ($0.850m) / Kevin Westgarth ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Willie Mitchell ($3.500m) / Drew Doughty ($4.500m)
Jack Johnson ($4.357m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.400m)
Alec Martinez ($0.900m) / Matt Greene ($2.950m)
/ Davis Drewiske ($0.616m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m) /Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m)

TOTALS
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,951,667; BONUSES: $2,390,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $448,333

Keep in mind again that this is without including the cap increase which is likely to go up a considerable amount next season. The Kings will also have over $13M in contracts expiring in 2012 (Smyth, Stoll, Mitchell and Parse all UFAs). That opens up room for players from within to step in or for the Kings to make other additions if need be.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:27 PM
  #660
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7 million + is just way to much to give up for what Vanek brings to the table. I dont follow Buffalo too closely so maybe his stats are equal to Willaims for a reason but that is alot.

If Lombardi wasn't going to give Kovi 7+ million, he wont give it to Vanek.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:32 PM
  #661
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by SimmondsFan View Post
7 million + is just way to much to give up for what Vanek brings to the table. I dont follow Buffalo too closely so maybe his stats are equal to Willaims for a reason but that is alot.

If Lombardi wasn't going to give Kovi 7+ million, he wont give it to Vanek.
That is true, but seeing how limited the options are for the Kings to add a scoring winger, we're just speculating if such a transaction were to take place. I don't expect Lombardi to make a bold move, he is not known for that, always going for low risk moves.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:41 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by SimmondsFan View Post
7 million + is just way to much to give up for what Vanek brings to the table. I dont follow Buffalo too closely so maybe his stats are equal to Willaims for a reason but that is alot.

If Lombardi wasn't going to give Kovi 7+ million, he wont give it to Vanek.
He wasn't going to give Kovy 10+ years. Kovalchuk is the better offensive player but Vanek is a more complete player. Not that Vanek is great defensively but he is not bad, despite what many people who don't watch him on this board thinks. Plus, Vanek is great with his stick and uses his teammates well.

I'd love to go get him.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:47 PM
  #663
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
He wasn't going to give Kovy 10+ years. Kovalchuk is the better offensive player but Vanek is a more complete player. Not that Vanek is great defensively but he is not bad, despite what many people who don't watch him on this board thinks. Plus, Vanek is great with his stick and uses his teammates well.

I'd love to go get him.
He also doesn't have a contract that would suffocate a team like Kovalchuk's contract. Vanek's contract expires in 2014, so he'd be signed for an additional three seasons, and he is still 27. He'd be 30 when he is due to become a UFA. He has many years of hockey left and like you stated, he can help the Kings in many areas. He has that combination of size and skill that is rare to find in the NHL. Very much like Rick Nash.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:53 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
Seems Boston has Toronto's 1st up for grabs. What would ya give for it. Should be a lottery pick.
Willie Mitchell or Scuderi.

We need to open up some roster spot on D for the kids and we need to open up some cap space for a LW.

This team would still be competitive without one of Mitchell or Scuderi. It's not like we would be throwing in the towel. And come draft day we could put a very enticing package of young prospects and picks together for a star winger.

I would be more excited about watching this defensive unit anyways:

Doughty-Scuderi
Johnson-Greene
Martinez-Voynov

Muzzin/Hickey

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:00 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Willie Mitchell or Scuderi.

We need to open up some roster spot on D for the kids and we need to open up some cap space for a LW.

This team would still be competitive without one of Mitchell or Scuderi. It's not like we would be throwing in the towel. And come draft day we could put a very enticing package of young prospects and picks together for a star winger.

I would be more excited about watching this defensive unit anyways:

Doughty-Scuderi
Johnson-Greene
Martinez-Voynov

Muzzin/Hickey
Huh? Wha? Did I read right? Mitchell or Scuderi for a potential top pick? Are you kidding?

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:01 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Exactly, and as you eluded to, we won't be finding out any time soon if the Kings have a future 30-40 goal scorer that could emerge in three, four, five or more years down the road. If there is a player with that type of scoring ability available now or in June-July, the Kings have to make a move.

They can't sit on their hands and watch every other team in the Conference improve while they remain idle, which is exactly what happened last summer. And to address their need for forwards, they end up with Ponikarovsky who hasn't worked out and Sturm who we all expected to have a hard time working himself back into game shape after a long recovery.

There are very few options available for the Kings to improve. We've waited how long internally for Kopitar and Brown to get better every year? And every season it is the same process, they heat up, cool down for long periods, pick up their play sporadically, etc. That's why it is nice to have some depth that can help balance out the offense. It is pleasant to have players capable of putting the puck in the net when you're best players have been invisible for 20+ games.
Who in the conference made moves that made them better last year?? Almost every team in the West either sat idle or lost pieces....only teams that made moves was Vancouver (for defensive help) and Phoenix adding Whitney/Belanger.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:19 PM
  #667
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Who in the conference made moves that made them better last year?? Almost every team in the West either sat idle or lost pieces....only teams that made moves was Vancouver (for defensive help) and Phoenix adding Whitney/Belanger.
Vancouver is a team that was already good that got even better with the additions they made on their blueline. San Jose has been on a role of late, going 7-2-1 in their last 10, and besides their new additions from this season and the summer (Eager, Wellwood, Niemi and Niittymaki), they also made a big move in retaining Marleau and not losing him to free agency. They will make the playoffs and they have shown of late that they can be a better team.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:25 PM
  #668
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I would like to see the Kings going after David Booth. He is better than Penner and has a nice contract. Imagine a Booth Kopi Williams line!

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:46 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Willie Mitchell or Scuderi.

We need to open up some roster spot on D for the kids and we need to open up some cap space for a LW.

This team would still be competitive without one of Mitchell or Scuderi. It's not like we would be throwing in the towel. And come draft day we could put a very enticing package of young prospects and picks together for a star winger.

I would be more excited about watching this defensive unit anyways:

Doughty-Scuderi
Johnson-Greene
Martinez-Voynov

Muzzin/Hickey
That's ridiculous. This team desperately needs both Mitchell and Scuderi.

Were you paying any attention at all to how the team defense went to utter **** when Mitchell was out of the lineup?

Johnson and Doughty are awesome in their own right, but without their fail-safes to their side in the Rob and Willie, their 5-on-5 play suffers in a huge way.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:47 PM
  #670
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Booth hasn't been the same since his concussion, both his GM and coach agree. He gets like 10 shots a game but he can't score like he did.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:47 PM
  #671
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I would like to see the Kings going after David Booth. He is better than Penner and has a nice contract. Imagine a Booth Kopi Williams line!
I don't see FLA moving Booth, young cap friendly forward with skill and some grit. FLA really doesn't have a reason to move him. Weiss is the guy FLA will probably move.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:47 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Vancouver is a team that was already good that got even better with the additions they made on their blueline. San Jose has been on a role of late, going 7-2-1 in their last 10, and besides their new additions from this season and the summer (Eager, Wellwood, Niemi and Niittymaki), they also made a big move in retaining Marleau and not losing him to free agency. They will make the playoffs and they have shown of late that they can be a better team.
None of the Sharks moves were significant, and most were seen as a downgrade. Wellwood for Malhotra=downgrade.... Niemi/Niittymaki for Nabokov=downgrade. And I'm not sure on what planet Eager is anything other than 4th line fodder...Atl traded him while they were in a tailspin, if he was anything significant he wouldn't have been moved. The thing that had keep SJ ticking this year has been the infusion of a young talented rookie center....wonder if the Kings have one of those in the pipeline.....

The reality in the NHL now is, building a team through FA is dying. Trades here or there happen but teams need to build from within. All the top teams are lead by players they drafted.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:50 PM
  #673
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Umberger is someone that could be a target.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:56 PM
  #674
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If both where available who would you want the Kings going after??

Iginla or Vanek???

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Old
02-08-2011, 08:32 PM
  #675
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If both where available who would you want the Kings going after??

Iginla or Vanek???
Iginla has a style of play that is more suited for playoffs.

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