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If Iginla was traded to Montreal...

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Old
01-20-2011, 03:27 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
They want him gone because they need more grit in their lineup. Calgary needs guys with skill, pretty simple to understand why he would be an asset they are willing to part with. Not many habs fans will bad mouth his work ethic, there is just no room for him with the surplus of skill players.

Never said Staal was a playmaking centre. Do you even think about the asinine things you write in these threads? I've always preched that Staal is a gifted and well rounded player. If we were lucky enough to have a player of his calibre he'd immediatly be our best centre and our best TWF. I've said his playmaking skills are sufficent, but no he is not a playmaking centre, and I'd never claim that about him.
sorry you said he 'was not a shoot first center'... same ****ing thing... and Staal has still never played to a higher level than Jokinen or Stajan has the past 2 years... he has to prove it before I take it as gospel... unlike you I don't just buy into the hype

and clearly you are missing my point on Kostitsyn... on our current club yeah maybe he would be an asset... but in an Iginla trade... not a ****ing chance... trading Iginla signifies a rebuild and you do not want a soft veteran to lead your youngsters... you need Langkow types on the roster (look up north Horcoff is a great example... or Moreau in Florida)... you want to bring up skilled prospects and try to teach them to play hard every shift

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01-20-2011, 03:54 PM
  #27
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sorry you said he 'was not a shoot first center'... same ****ing thing... and Staal has still never played to a higher level than Jokinen or Stajan has the past 2 years... he has to prove it before I take it as gospel... unlike you I don't just buy into the hype

and clearly you are missing my point on Kostitsyn... on our current club yeah maybe he would be an asset... but in an Iginla trade... not a ****ing chance... trading Iginla signifies a rebuild and you do not want a soft veteran to lead your youngsters... you need Langkow types on the roster (look up north Horcoff is a great example... or Moreau in Florida)... you want to bring up skilled prospects and try to teach them to play hard every shift
How the hell is that the same thing?! Whatever man, it doesn't matter, just keep spinning. He is absolutly better then both Stajan and Jokinen in every aspect of the game. Nobody should have a shred of doubt about that. PIT fans have two of the best centres in the game and they still don't want to part with Staal. He's a huge part of their team and the fans who watch PIT the most know it. Comparing him to either of our two centres is a joke.

Your missing my point. If you took a salary dump in a package for iginla who would you rather take, AK or Ryder? In my mind the choice is easy.

Regardless, the BOS package would be a better option based on the other players/picks involved.

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01-20-2011, 04:20 PM
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How the hell is that the same thing?!
If he's not a shoot first center, then what the **** is he? A hit first center? A skate first center? A bench first center? A crash the net center? A defensive center? A passing center?

Which one of those makes the most sense? And don't say defensive center. Because we don't need defense.

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01-20-2011, 04:37 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
If he's not a shoot first center, then what the **** is he? A hit first center? A skate first center? A bench first center? A crash the net center? A defensive center? A passing center?

Which one of those makes the most sense? And don't say defensive center. Because we don't need defense.
Just because he's not a shoot first centre doesn't mean he should be labelled as a playmaker. This isn't NHL 11. The guys is a really well rounded player at every aspect of the game and yes I would say his strongest attribute is his defensive game. If you don't think this team needs better defensive forwards then give your head a shake.

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01-20-2011, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
Just because he's not a shoot first centre doesn't mean he should be labelled as a playmaker. This isn't NHL 11. The guys is a really well rounded player at every aspect of the game and yes I would say his strongest attribute is his defensive game. If you don't think this team needs better defensive forwards then give your head a shake.
I think the cost of getting Staal, would be Bourque AND Backlund. So you have to ask yourself if that is a price that you are willing to pay.

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01-20-2011, 05:00 PM
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I think the cost of getting Staal, would be Bourque AND Backlund. So you have to ask yourself if that is a price that you are willing to pay.
I'd probably have to agree with your estimate. No I wouldn't trade Backlund because to me he is our best centre moving forward. The kid just needs some quality minutes to instill some offensive confidence in him. This club is pulling a boyd all over again, the difference being that Backlund actually deserves a shot at being top line.

Anyway, Maybe something around Bourque and Glencross (also too many centremen for us), but more would need to be added with minimal salary. Unless we start adding picks it wouldn't get done, and that's the last thing management should do.

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01-20-2011, 05:06 PM
  #32
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Just because he's not a shoot first centre doesn't mean he should be labelled as a playmaker. This isn't NHL 11. The guys is a really well rounded player at every aspect of the game and yes I would say his strongest attribute is his defensive game. If you don't think this team needs better defensive forwards then give your head a shake.
Right. We'll agree to disagree on the first bit. Staal is anything but a proven first line center offensively. If we had the choice between a purely offensive first line center like a Riberio, and a guy who is fantastically defensively and unproven offensively, I'd go the first one right now, every single damn time. This team took a gamble on Jokinen. We've taken gambles on guys before and they've not worked out long term. We need a PROVEN OFFENSIVE FIRST LINE center more so than anything else. And unless we are getting that, we aren't going to give up an arm and leg, which is what it would require to get Staal. We need this far more than we need a defensive forward.

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01-20-2011, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
Right. We'll agree to disagree on the first bit. Staal is anything but a proven first line center offensively. If we had the choice between a purely offensive first line center like a Riberio, and a guy who is fantastically defensively and unproven offensively, I'd go the first one right now, every single damn time. This team took a gamble on Jokinen. We've taken gambles on guys before and they've not worked out long term. We need a PROVEN OFFENSIVE FIRST LINE center more so than anything else. And unless we are getting that, we aren't going to give up an arm and leg, which is what it would require to get Staal. We need this far more than we need a defensive forward.
Yup I agree...I just think there is a realistic chance that PIT might want to move Staal at some point. Don't know much about what is going on with Riberio in DAL, so I can't really comment as to whether him being moved is feasible.

At the same time we need forwards who are much more sound defensivly and have a a more tenacious work ethic. Staal fits that bill, ideally I'd love to have him as our 2nd line centre. But all I can really do is dream.

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01-20-2011, 05:25 PM
  #34
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If Calgary traded Iginla to Montreal who would you like to get in return from our team?

IMO:1st pick + Louis Leblanc + Andrei Kostitsyn + (Weber or Eller)

And to me this is overpaying from our point of view but we are in a need of an elite player and you guys want to rebuild so this trade would be great Imo for both of us. And in the exchange we all win in the long term.

what do you guys think?
Hey, I like AK but I would take the Boston proposal that was mentioned earlier (Toronto's 1st, Colbourne +) over this one in a heartbeat. Leblanc, Weber and AK aren't nearly enough to amount as much as Toronto's 1st could be. Eller maybe but I would still roll the die and gamble with Toronto's 1st.

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01-20-2011, 05:33 PM
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Yup I agree...I just think there is a realistic chance that PIT might want to move Staal at some point. Don't know much about what is going on with Riberio in DAL, so I can't really comment as to whether him being moved is feasible.

At the same time we need forwards who are much more sound defensivly and have a a more tenacious work ethic. Staal fits that bill, ideally I'd love to have him as our 2nd line centre. But all I can really do is dream.
Don't get me wrong. I'd still rather have Staal over every single center on the Flames.

My idea is that if managment/ownership refuses to go the rebuild route (which I'm deathly afraid they will), then that first line center is what we need. My thought on Riberio is its highly unlikely that he is available, unless Richards is re-signed once they have new management, but they still have an internal budget. The question becomes of course what does it cost us to acquire him?

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01-20-2011, 06:30 PM
  #36
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sorry you said he 'was not a shoot first center'... same ****ing thing... and Staal has still never played to a higher level than Jokinen or Stajan has the past 2 years... he has to prove it before I take it as gospel... unlike you I don't just buy into the hype

and clearly you are missing my point on Kostitsyn... on our current club yeah maybe he would be an asset... but in an Iginla trade... not a ****ing chance... trading Iginla signifies a rebuild and you do not want a soft veteran to lead your youngsters... you need Langkow types on the roster (look up north Horcoff is a great example... or Moreau in Florida)... you want to bring up skilled prospects and try to teach them to play hard every shift
As much as you believe it, Kostitsyn will be physical when he is on his game. And the guy is 25 yrs old. If youre in a rebuild would you not like to have a young top6 winger with some potential? As much as you hate him, for 3 million he will still put up 20-25 goals a year.

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01-21-2011, 01:03 AM
  #37
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How the hell is that the same thing?! Whatever man, it doesn't matter, just keep spinning. He is absolutly better then both Stajan and Jokinen in every aspect of the game. Nobody should have a shred of doubt about that. PIT fans have two of the best centres in the game and they still don't want to part with Staal. He's a huge part of their team and the fans who watch PIT the most know it. Comparing him to either of our two centres is a joke.

Your missing my point. If you took a salary dump in a package for iginla who would you rather take, AK or Ryder? In my mind the choice is easy.

Regardless, the BOS package would be a better option based on the other players/picks involved.
how has Staal proved he is better?... both Stajan and Jokinen had more points last year than Staal's best year... the kid has yet to break 50 points... he has not proven anything except he is capable of putting up similar numbers to Jokinen & Stajan... you can't say he is better in every aspect of the game when he has never proven to be better... you just buy the hype that Staal is a #1 center stuck on Pittsburgh's 3rd line... as for Penguins fans... they are among the most delusional in hockey and are notorious for overvaluing their players... the fans are the reason I despise that franchise (well them and Lemieux)

and if I were to take a salary dump and had to choose between Ryder and Kostitsyn... I would pick Ryder... because he would actually be a salary dump and would be off the books next year (and could be moved for a pick if acquired early enough)... if Kostitsyn was a pending UFA maybe I might give him a 2nd thought

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01-21-2011, 01:05 AM
  #38
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As much as you believe it, Kostitsyn will be physical when he is on his game. And the guy is 25 yrs old. If youre in a rebuild would you not like to have a young top6 winger with some potential? As much as you hate him, for 3 million he will still put up 20-25 goals a year.
if i wanted wingers in that age range I would hold onto bourque and move stajan to the wing

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01-21-2011, 03:25 AM
  #39
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how has Staal proved he is better?... both Stajan and Jokinen had more points last year than Staal's best year... the kid has yet to break 50 points... he has not proven anything except he is capable of putting up similar numbers to Jokinen & Stajan... you can't say he is better in every aspect of the game when he has never proven to be better... you just buy the hype that Staal is a #1 center stuck on Pittsburgh's 3rd line... as for Penguins fans... they are among the most delusional in hockey and are notorious for overvaluing their players... the fans are the reason I despise that franchise (well them and Lemieux)

and if I were to take a salary dump and had to choose between Ryder and Kostitsyn... I would pick Ryder... because he would actually be a salary dump and would be off the books next year (and could be moved for a pick if acquired early enough)... if Kostitsyn was a pending UFA maybe I might give him a 2nd thought
Kos is FFA this year for your information. What d you have to lose? If you dont want him you dont sign him. If some other team wants him you get prospects.

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01-21-2011, 04:34 AM
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Kos is FFA this year for your information. What d you have to lose? If you dont want him you dont sign him. If some other team wants him you get prospects.
as has been seen repeatedly on these boards no one wants Kostitsyn, not even most Habs fans

and I'm not wrong about anything, Kostitsyn is a RFA and Ryder a UFA... if you wanna trade Kostitsyn so much send him anywhere but Calgary

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01-21-2011, 04:57 AM
  #41
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as has been seen repeatedly on these boards no one wants Kostitsyn, not even most Habs fans

and I'm not wrong about anything, Kostitsyn is a RFA and Ryder a UFA... if you wanna trade Kostitsyn so much send him anywhere but Calgary
If you really dont like him, I dont mind keeping him. He cant be worst then what he is now. But he has the potential to be a 100 points player. at 3.2 million its a good investment.

Its just we dont have the guys to make him work properly and the city here might not be the best for him, too much distraction perhaps.

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01-21-2011, 07:09 AM
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If you really dont like him, I dont mind keeping him. He cant be worst then what he is now. But he has the potential to be a 100 points player. at 3.2 million its a good investment.

Its just we dont have the guys to make him work properly and the city here might not be the best for him, too much distraction perhaps.
100 point player? if Kostitsyn has the potential to be a 100 point player I have the potential to have a 3way with Jessica Alba and Kate Hudson

the has never cracked 55 ppoints at any pro level... he has only played 1 full season at any pro level... and if he doesn't fit in Montreal he sure as hell won't fit in Calgary...

so explain to me why exactly Calgary needs yet another 2nd liner? between Bourque, Jokinen, Stajan and Hagman don't the Flames have enough guys putting up 2nd line numbers?

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01-21-2011, 09:16 AM
  #43
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100 point player? if Kostitsyn has the potential to be a 100 point player I have the potential to have a 3way with Jessica Alba and Kate Hudson

the has never cracked 55 ppoints at any pro level... he has only played 1 full season at any pro level... and if he doesn't fit in Montreal he sure as hell won't fit in Calgary...

so explain to me why exactly Calgary needs yet another 2nd liner? between Bourque, Jokinen, Stajan and Hagman don't the Flames have enough guys putting up 2nd line numbers?
Dude, Kos plays in a very defensive team. You cant expect him to score a **** load of points thats 1.
And 2 His + 9.
3- Are you really willing to waiste your franchise player for a top pick that may or may not play in the Nhl one day. Or peharps gamble that he may be an impact player. Can you expect to do that much better then Eller, Leblanc or kostitsyn??

Any ways heres a video of what kos can you do.

And yes he has the potential of becoming a 100 point player. Not every year but at least once in his career if he plays with good players. He has the hands, the speed, the body and the skills for it. And also that guy is young 25!!


But I agree though maybe calgary wont be a good fit for him after all. If any thing he will look more confused then now..:/

* 100 points is a stretch but so is Tor's first draft pick too


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01-21-2011, 09:37 AM
  #44
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how has Staal proved he is better?... both Stajan and Jokinen had more points last year than Staal's best year... the kid has yet to break 50 points... he has not proven anything except he is capable of putting up similar numbers to Jokinen & Stajan... you can't say he is better in every aspect of the game when he has never proven to be better... you just buy the hype that Staal is a #1 center stuck on Pittsburgh's 3rd line... as for Penguins fans... they are among the most delusional in hockey and are notorious for overvaluing their players... the fans are the reason I despise that franchise (well them and Lemieux)

and if I were to take a salary dump and had to choose between Ryder and Kostitsyn... I would pick Ryder... because he would actually be a salary dump and would be off the books next year (and could be moved for a pick if acquired early enough)... if Kostitsyn was a pending UFA maybe I might give him a 2nd thought
Thanks for the insight Daryll Sutter, it's appreciated. The only people that are delusional are CGY fans who think Jokinen and Stajan are anywhere near Staal's level. Points will only take you so far in an argument, and it's pretty apparent in this example that it means squat. Staal gets plenty of PK time and plays with scrubs for the most part on the 2nd/3rd line. He also gets an average amount of 2nd line PP minutes. If he got to play with Iginla, I'd love to watch him rack up points, and give our forwards a lesson in backchecking.

AK is an RFA, if he doesn't work you'll get something for him. The fact that you think he's a soft player shows how little you know about him.

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01-21-2011, 10:37 AM
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Wow, lots of cheap/borderline hits by AK in that video.

Personally I don't want him because I can't spell his name.

At least some things stay the same. Any thread involving the discussion of a centre, and Gnome brings up Staal...

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01-21-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
100 point player? if Kostitsyn has the potential to be a 100 point player I have the potential to have a 3way with Jessica Alba and Kate Hudson
I remember all the people saying that Carter would have been the better pick for them in '03, but Hab fans staying firm that they got "the most talented player in the draft". I see the potential has remained, despite the reality showing otherwise.


Quote:
so explain to me why exactly Calgary needs yet another 2nd liner? between Bourque, Jokinen, Stajan and Hagman don't the Flames have enough guys putting up 2nd line numbers?
I'd love it if they were putting up 2nd line numbers


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01-21-2011, 11:11 AM
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Wow, lots of cheap/borderline hits by AK in that video.

Personally I don't want him because I can't spell his name.

At least some things stay the same. Any thread involving the discussion of a centre, and Gnome brings up Staal...
Actually Lunatik brought him up to begin with (go back to page 1 almost at the bottom). I'm just defending myself.

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01-21-2011, 11:24 AM
  #48
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Thanks for the insight Daryll Sutter, it's appreciated. The only people that are delusional are CGY fans who think Jokinen and Stajan are anywhere near Staal's level. Points will only take you so far in an argument, and it's pretty apparent in this example that it means squat. Staal gets plenty of PK time and plays with scrubs for the most part on the 2nd/3rd line. He also gets an average amount of 2nd line PP minutes. If he got to play with Iginla, I'd love to watch him rack up points, and give our forwards a lesson in backchecking.

AK is an RFA, if he doesn't work you'll get something for him. The fact that you think he's a soft player shows how little you know about him.
so why would Staal do any better in Calgary? he'd be playing with scrubs on the 1st or 2n d line instead of the 1st. And I am not saying Staal won't be better... but to this point in time he hasn't shown is is better in every area of the game like you claimed

so maybe soft wasn't the right word... lazy and inconsistent were the ones that fit unless he feels like playing

and if I'm Sutter... you are JFJ

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01-21-2011, 11:35 AM
  #49
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so why would Staal do any better in Calgary? he'd be playing with scrubs on the 1st or 2n d line instead of the 1st. And I am not saying Staal won't be better... but to this point in time he hasn't shown is is better in every area of the game like you claimed

so maybe soft wasn't the right word... lazy and inconsistent were the ones that fit unless he feels like playing

and if I'm Sutter... you are JFJ
What the hell are you talking about? Iginla, Tanguay, Bourque, Hagmen, Those guys are scrubs?! He is better, the stats mean nothing. How do you not understand that. Not only is there huge potential there but he is already better then any centreman we currently have. Defensivly, puck handling, passing, work ethic, shooting, PK/PP. The guy doesn't have to prove anything when compared to players like Jokinen and Stajan.

Again over the last 1.5 season AK has not been lazy, he is inconsistent, but still maturing. The point was whether you would want Ryder or AK. AK should be the obvious choice, as he is 5 years younger and still improving. His RFA status should at least get the team some compensation if we don't want to retain him.

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01-21-2011, 02:10 PM
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What the hell are you talking about? Iginla, Tanguay, Bourque, Hagmen, Those guys are scrubs?! He is better, the stats mean nothing. How do you not understand that. Not only is there huge potential there but he is already better then any centreman we currently have. Defensivly, puck handling, passing, work ethic, shooting, PK/PP. The guy doesn't have to prove anything when compared to players like Jokinen and Stajan.

Again over the last 1.5 season AK has not been lazy, he is inconsistent, but still maturing. The point was whether you would want Ryder or AK. AK should be the obvious choice, as he is 5 years younger and still improving. His RFA status should at least get the team some compensation if we don't want to retain him.
Staal couldn't pass if he was going 200 on the highway...

and every player has to prove something... but you can buy the hype all you want... more ice-time and better linemates comes with better opponents and there is no guarantee anyone can handle it until they prove they can

but we might as well end this now because you think Staal is the next coming of god and I think he is one of the most overrated player in the NHL... and you can have Kostitsyn... but on the Flames he will be Kotalik 2.0

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