HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Are we stuck with Gaborik? (If it doesn't work out)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-07-2011, 02:31 PM
  #1
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Are we stuck with Gaborik? (If it doesn't work out)

Ok, so I'm sure I'll get flack for this, albeit unwarranted, from the Gabby fangirls on here...but I don't care.

We all know the situation with him. Fragile, underachieving...no real "killer instinct" that other top players have. Anyone who calls him "elite" needs their head examined (ok maybe I'm being a bit harsh). I've said it before, an elite player is someone with all-world skill, that shows up every night and puts points on the board. He doesn't do that. The book on him before we signed him was his fragility, and tendency to disappear for multiple games at a time. We took a risk.

Now, the jury is still out, in some respects, however he's shown me that the book on him was correct.

Last year he played quite well, and we all thought maybe we got lucky. This year, not so much. He reminds me a lot of EC, in that if he starts out a game strong, he'll be super confident and usually put up a big night. If he doesn't get that confidence, early.. he's usually a total non-factor. Just like EC, I think Gaborik is a little bit off/weak upstairs. This is just my own personal opinion based on my observations.

He could very well turn things around, and have a very nice/productive career in Ranger blue. Let's hope this happens!

However, let's say this doesn't happen, he's in and out of the lineup, oft-injured, and essentially a waste of a massive contract. What then? We can't compete for a Stanley Cup if we tie so much of the cap in these massive risks. Redden has been banished to Bogeyland, Drury will hopefully retire, Rozi is gone; so is Gaborik going to be our next albatross?

Will we have any options to remedy this mistake, if it indeed turns out to be a mistake? Will we Reddenize him? We need that top guy, and we can't afford to waste 7.5mm on a guy that doesn't produce/stay healthy.


Last edited by KreiMeARiver*: 03-07-2011 at 03:09 PM.
KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:42 PM
  #2
mrjimmyg89
'13-'14 East Champs
 
mrjimmyg89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 500
He hurt his shoulder and had a concussion. I think that is the major reason as to why his production is down. My honest opinion is his shoulder is still not 100% and we'll find out after the season if it was or not because they won't tell us now (Similar to how they didn't tell us Drury had a broken hand in the playoffs against Washington). The concussion would be the cause of the recent struggles and players coming back from concussions take time to get back into their groove. Now I think he played well last game, which he has to build on.

When he has been in the line-up, he still has been out best pt/gm producer playing with a bunch of younger players and no legitimate 1st line players outside of MAYBE Dubinsky, and that could be stretching it. Currently, he is playing with Vinny Prospal who has produced points since being back, but still looks like he is skating in quick sand. Hopefully he can turn it on and put some points up for us in big games down the stretch and ppl will forget about his contract.

mrjimmyg89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:43 PM
  #3
JeffMangum
#corgi
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,178
vCash: 50
9m? It's 7.5.

If Sather wanted to trade him, he easily could. The guy is still a superstar sniper, one off year does not change this.

__________________
Soon.
JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:44 PM
  #4
mullichicken25
Registered User
 
mullichicken25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,594
vCash: 500
didnt kovalchuk look like complete and utter garbage at the beginning of this season?

mullichicken25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:50 PM
  #5
FromTheSide
Registered User
 
FromTheSide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 26,385
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FromTheSide Send a message via MSN to FromTheSide
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
didnt kovalchuk look like complete and utter garbage at the beginning of this season?
He looked like complete and utter garbage for HALF the season. Not just the beginning. At least gaborik has had a concussion and shoulder surgery to back up his production loss, what the hell was kovalchuks excuse?

FromTheSide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:50 PM
  #6
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
9m? It's 7.5.

If Sather wanted to trade him, he easily could. The guy is still a superstar sniper, one off year does not change this.
Perhaps he could trade Gaborik, but with all of the injuries he would not get fair value.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:50 PM
  #7
bourgeoisie
Je suis Charlie
 
bourgeoisie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 970
vCash: 500
Anyone who says Gabby isn't an elite talent needs to get his head checked. He hasn't produced like one this year, but that doesn't offset the other 5 seasons where he was a ppg dominating player.

I think he finishes strong and returns to form next season. He had the jump in his step in philly that he had had last year, and lacked this year. His shoulder injury definitely effected his shot. He was rushed back, which wasn't good for him or the team.

bourgeoisie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:51 PM
  #8
JeffMangum
#corgi
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,178
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromTheSide View Post
He looked like complete and utter garbage for HALF the season. Not just the beginning. At least gaborik has had a concussion and shoulder surgery to back up his production loss, what the hell was kovalchuks excuse?
One of the worst coaches in NHL history.

JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:52 PM
  #9
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
No, We could trade him if we really want it.... But I don't think we should... He's a goal scorer who's greatest attribute and biggest reason for success is his burst (Acceleration)...

He had injuries all season and hurting his groin was one of them. He lost his acceleration and his game fell apart. I'm not worried about him. 7.5M well spent.

Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:53 PM
  #10
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Perhaps he could trade Gaborik, but with all of the injuries he would not get fair value.
What do you mean fair value? What is Gaborik's value and if he is so valuable why would you want him off your team? If he's not valuable then trading him for a small return would still be... fair value.

Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:57 PM
  #11
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
What do you mean fair value? What is Gaborik's value and if he is so valuable why would you want him off your team? If he's not valuable then trading him for a small return would still be... fair value.
Not sure why this is do difficult to comprehend, but here goes. Last year Gaborik matched the best season of his career. If he would be on that same pace this year, and you tried to trade him, you could probably receive a lot in return.

With his injuries and lack of production this year, you would not receive as much as you would have in the above scenario. Hope that 'splains it for ya.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 02:57 PM
  #12
Mr Bojanglez
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Mr Bojanglez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: From Jersey w/ Love
Country: United States
Posts: 10,922
vCash: 500
He's banged up for sure... and he's been injured prior to the concussion. Maybe the time off from his head injury, helped whatever was bothering him before (i believe it was his shoulder)?

You had to know going into this that Gaborik was susceptible to injury. Healthy he's one of the best in the league. We'll see how he finishes this season, but i'm sure he'll be better to start next season.

Mr Bojanglez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:02 PM
  #13
sousuffer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
didnt kovalchuk look like complete and utter garbage at the beginning of this season?
Kovalchuk also has a history of being healthy. There's a huge difference between having a bad half season and having a reputation for being hurt all the time. It just so happens that a players' first year tends to be the one they are judged on. If a player signs a 5 year deal and has an excellent first year and 4 underachieving years after that, there are many people who will give that player more leeway than someone who maybe has a bad first year but then starts turning it on after that. It takes a longer period of time to "win over" the home crowd this way. If Kovalchuk had finished the year poorly, people would be saying his contract was bad for a while. He'd have to have a dominant second season for the fans to even start thinking about changing their mind. His second half has shut everyone up quickly however.

sousuffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:05 PM
  #14
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New England Hockey View Post
Anyone who says Gabby isn't an elite talent needs to get his head checked. He hasn't produced like one this year, but that doesn't offset the other 5 seasons where he was a ppg dominating player.

I think he finishes strong and returns to form next season. He had the jump in his step in philly that he had had last year, and lacked this year. His shoulder injury definitely effected his shot. He was rushed back, which wasn't good for him or the team.
Elite "talent" and elite "player" are two different things.

If a guy is a PPG guy, but only comes to work half the time, is he really an elite player? NO

"Elite", to me, means staying healthy and producing a PPG on a consistent basis. Normal injuries are a part of sports..but when there is a pattern, year in and year out, of missing major time, then, well...you lose the "elite" status. Plus, his head doesn't seem to be in the game, a lot of times.

Crosby is elite... Stamkos, St. Louis, The Sedins, Datsyuk, etc. Gaborik is a notch below.

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:09 PM
  #15
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Not sure why this is do difficult to comprehend, but here goes. Last year Gaborik matched the best season of his career. If he would be on that same pace this year, and you tried to trade him, you could probably receive a lot in return.

With his injuries and lack of production this year, you would not receive as much as you would have in the above scenario. Hope that 'splains it for ya.
Fair value for Gaborik is just that. He guy is injury prone. We know, our GM knows it and so does every other GM in the league. You think one full season by Gaborik last year really proved anything? People know he is one of the most prolific scorers in the NHL when healthy.. But he's not and never is. His history has shown this over and over again. Hell, Hemsky is in the same boat. He would be a star if he could just stay healthy but it's the same old song and dance with him too.

You don't look at ONE season and determine a players worth. You look at their history, backgrounds, etc... Were talking about a contract with over 20 MILLION DOLLARS left on it. They aren't going to take a sample size of 82 games (or was it 81 games for him?). So no, I don't think his value has diminished much because nothing that happened last season or this season is new. He's a guy, when healthy who can tear up the league. Problem is, and history has shown us this, that he can't stay healthy.


... Now in your fantasy situation where he was healthy and on pace for another career year for two full seasons I think your argument would hold true... But it's just that... a fantasy.
Hope that helps you understand the situation a little better...


Last edited by Garfinkel1: 03-07-2011 at 03:15 PM.
Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:11 PM
  #16
TrollololBoyle
Registered User
 
TrollololBoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 2,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Elite "talent" and elite "player" are two different things.

If a guy is a PPG guy, but only comes to work half the time, is he really an elite player? NO

"Elite", to me, means staying healthy and producing a PPG on a consistent basis. Normal injuries are a part of sports..but when there is a pattern, year in and year out, of missing major time, then, well...you lose the "elite" status. Plus, his head doesn't seem to be in the game, a lot of times.

Crosby is elite... Stamkos, St. Louis, The Sedins, Datsyuk, etc. Gaborik is a notch below.
So what would you consider Lindros then?

He couldn't stay healthy for the life of him, but he was twice the player Crosby is.

TrollololBoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:13 PM
  #17
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
So was Forsberg an elite player?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
So what would you consider Lindros then?

He couldn't stay healthy for the life of him, but he was twice the player Crosby is.
This pretty much sums up how I feel about what Hightide said.

Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:14 PM
  #18
Khelvan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Khelvan Send a message via AIM to Khelvan Send a message via MSN to Khelvan
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
"Elite", to me, means staying healthy and producing a PPG on a consistent basis. Normal injuries are a part of sports..but when there is a pattern, year in and year out, of missing major time, then, well...you lose the "elite" status. Plus, his head doesn't seem to be in the game, a lot of times.
So was Forsberg an elite player?

Khelvan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:16 PM
  #19
xxxZENxxx
Registered User
 
xxxZENxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Ok, so I'm sure I'll get flack for this, albeit unwarranted, from the Gabby fangirls on here...but I don't care.

We all know the situation with him. Fragile, underachieving...no real "killer instinct" that other top players have. Anyone who calls him "elite" needs their head examined. I've said it before, an elite player is someone with all-world skill, that shows up every night and puts points on the board. He doesn't do that. The book on him before we signed him was his fragility, and tendency to disappear for multiple games at a time. We took a risk.

Now, the jury is still out, in some respects, however he's shown me that the book on him was correct.

Last year he played quite well, and we all thought maybe we got lucky. This year, not so much. He reminds me a lot of EC, in that if he starts out a game strong, he'll be super confident and usually put up a big night. If he doesn't get that confidence, early.. he's usually a total non-factor. Just like EC, I think Gaborik is a little bit off/weak upstairs. This is just my own personal opinion based on my observations.

He could very well turn things around, and have a very nice/productive career in Ranger blue. Let's hope this happens!

However, let's say this doesn't happen, he's in and out of the lineup, oft-injured, and essentially a waste of a massive contract. What then? We can't compete for a Stanley Cup if we tie so much of the cap in these massive risks. Redden has been banished to Bogeyland, Drury will hopefully retire, Rozi is gone; so is Gaborik going to be our next albatross?

Will we have any options to remedy this mistake, if it indeed turns out to be a mistake? Will we Reddenize him? We need that top guy, and we can't afford to waste 7.5mm on a guy that doesn't produce/stay healthy.
While I agree that Gaborik's health is frustrating... using Gaborik and albatross in the same sentence is just plain silly. Last year, Gabby carried this team on this back to for the majority of the season. Where you around for that? He has all-world skating, playmaking, and scoring ability... and is one of the elite talents in the league. He is definitely not weak upstairs or should he be compared to horrible EC in any way. He will get better, because his talent is too good. Patience is needed here.

BTW- not every team can have an Ovechkin or Crosby... an elite talent who shows his emotions on his sleeve. That sounds like what you are looking for in a $7M+ player. I completely understand where you are coming from with that, but it just isn't realistic.

And let's say Sather wanted to trade him when healthy. He won't have any issues finding a taker during the offseason. We would yield a nice return too.

xxxZENxxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:17 PM
  #20
Callahan Auto
Rational Police
 
Callahan Auto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 500
Hypothetical arguments aren't going to go anywhere. Would we be 'stuck' with him if, I don't know, he continued to have concussion problems and his shoulder never healed? I guess so but I don't think there's any reason to believe with any certainty that he won't return to his production from last year. The term 'elite' was thrown around and I think anyone with a reasonable point of view would agree that last year, as a whole, he was 'elite'. He put up 86 points playing with players that are nowhere near to top talent. We live in a 'what have you done for me lately' society and I guess technically he's underperformed but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions when he's played banged up all year and been incredibly unlucky. Most players have a career shooting percentage that they stick around and Gabby's stats this year lead me to believe that he's just gunshot. Even with him not at his best, he still is a 30 goal scorer and constant threat.

After 1.75 seasons as a Ranger he's put up this statline:

124 games played, 59 goals, 124 points.

If he's at PPG for the rest of his career and he averages 65 games a year (along with being healthy for playoffs), he'll be worth his contract.

Callahan Auto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:19 PM
  #21
TrollololBoyle
Registered User
 
TrollololBoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 2,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
While I agree that Gaborik's health is frustrating... using Gaborik and albatross in the same sentence is just plain silly. Last year, Gabby carried this team on this back to for the majority of the season. Where you around for that? He has all-world skating, playmaking, and scoring ability... and is one of the elite talents in the league. He is definitely not weak upstairs or should he be compared to horrible EC in any way. He will get better, because his talent is too good. Patience is needed here.

BTW- not every team can have an Ovechkin or Crosby... an elite talent who shows his emotions on his sleeve. That sounds like what you are looking for in a $7M+ player. I completely understand where you are coming from with that, but it just isn't realistic.

And let's say Sather wanted to trade him when healthy. He won't have any issues finding a taker during the offseason. We would yield a nice return too.
Crosby has no emotion, he's probably the most boring player in the NHL in my opinion. He may be fun to watch, but his personality makes clowns want to kill themselves. Therefore, Crosby is not elite

TrollololBoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:25 PM
  #22
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
Crosby has no emotion, he's probably the most boring player in the NHL in my opinion. He may be fun to watch, but his personality makes clowns want to kill themselves. Therefore, Crosby is not elite


In all fairness though, It would be impossible to find someone to remain calm and composed after scoring what could be the biggest goal of your entire life.

Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:29 PM
  #23
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
This pretty much sums up how I feel about what Hightide said.
Regarding Forsberg and Lindros:

Really??

Lindros and Forsberg were both playmaking forwards who could score, and make everyone around them better. Forget about injuries... this comparison is bogus.

Gaborik isn't in the same conversation, as those two.

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:33 PM
  #24
satrabyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,870
vCash: 500
You are dead on, based on your observations. He is a talented guy, one of the most talented but some much of it gets washed away and over rid by his awful fragility. I think this is a lesson. Dont sign big players to long term contracts, for big money. It just doesent work out for us here in NY. In fact almost every big contract weve given that i could think of has been a failure. Drury, Gomez, Redden, Holik, Kaspar, Lindros and now MR gaborik. I think we should stick with building, and atleast if we do sign a guy, weve seen him a few years and we know what we get with him By signing guys i.e Richards its difficult as most of us dont watch Dallas and to say Richards is the saviour is premature just like many other signings. I would stick with who we got and consider moving Gaborik if someone is willing to give up some young talent for him. Stepan, Stall, Dubi, Cally, Sauer, Girardi, Mcdonaugh, Zucc, Anisimov, Kreider. We have some real young talent here imo and we have time to see who we really want around long term.

satrabyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 03:34 PM
  #25
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Regarding Forsberg and Lindros:

Really??

Lindros and Forsberg were both playmaking forwards who could score, and make everyone around them better. Forget about injuries... this comparison is bogus.

Gaborik isn't in the same conversation, as those two.
I meant in terms of a players elite status being contingent on if players are able to stay healthy. I should have stated that in that post. My bad.

100% agree that Gaborik isn't in the same conversation as those two however.

Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:37 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.