Why do people continue to pile on Drury? Why should Gaborik be immune to criticism while other players are not?
Gaborik's noticeably underachieved in comparison to last year, people are going to comment on it.
I'm not saying he should be immune to criticism. Just that a lot of the criticism on the board has been extreme.
Finishing has been the issue. If he was floating around I could understand the vitriol. The guy works hard and has generated chances. He's an asset and the least of our worries.
Why do people continue to pile on Drury? Why should Gaborik be immune to criticism while other players are not?
Gaborik's noticeably underachieved in comparison to last year, people are going to comment on it.
Exactly. When players are inconsistent and underperform for stretches, we should have no qualms about discussing it or pointing it out... No player should be immune from criticism... It also doesn't mean that any particular person has it out for these players.... They are mere observations.... Anisimov is another player who has been inconsistent this year... But when you factor in his age, inexperience, and meager salary, it's not as big of an issue as it is with a player in Gaborik's position.... Elite veteran forward who makes a hefty salary....
So what's your point though? What do you want to happen? I referenced you because you're the one in here talking. There have been plenty of people wanting Gabby shipped out of town around here.
What do you mean, what's my point? This is a hockey message board, where people post observations and opinions... What should my point be?
I like the player, I want him to be more consistent... Do you see me putting him in trade proposals or asking for him to be relegated to the 4th line? If Henke put together a string poor games, could we talk about that on here? Or is he immune from criticism too?
Why is everything one extreme or the other with your reactions to some posts? If somebody says something critical of the player, that doesn't mean you should just lump them with people calling for the player to be traded. Ever think that some people may fall somewhere in the middle on some subjects? Just because I point out some negatives in his Gaborik's play this season doesn't mean I want him off the team, or don't like him... I think he needs to be better... I like him as a player... I don't have any qualms criticizing him or any other player on the roster when I feel it's warranted... Apparently Torts doesn't either, because if you watch the post-games, he's commented on Gaborik's play and him needing to be better quite a few times... I'm critical of Avery.... I'd be more vocal/critical of Anisimov's inconsistent play if he wasn't a 2nd year player... I don't care about Drury anymore because I think he's gone this summer.... I don't see anything wrong with being critical of our players at times... If you do, I'm not sure why... If you want to know how about I feel about certain player, ask me, you'll get a more accurate understanding than just jumping to conclusions and lumping my opinion together with the opinions of other posters I don't even know.
Why do people continue to pile on Drury? Why should Gaborik be immune to criticism while other players are not?
Gaborik's noticeably underachieved in comparison to last year, people are going to comment on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze
What do you mean, what's my point? This is a hockey message board, where people post observations and opinions... What should my point be?
I like the player, I want him to be more consistent... Do you see me putting him in trade proposals or asking for him to be relegated to the 4th line? If Henke put together a string poor games, could we talk about that on here? Or is he immune from criticism too?
Why is everything one extreme or the other with your reactions to some posts? If somebody says something critical of the player, that doesn't mean you should just lump them with people calling for the player to be traded. Ever think that some people may fall somewhere in the middle on some subjects? Just because I point out some negatives in his Gaborik's play this season doesn't mean I want him off the team, or don't like him... I think he needs to be better... I like him as a player... I don't have any qualms criticizing him or any other player on the roster when I feel it's warranted... Apparently Torts doesn't either, because if you watch the post-games, he's commented on Gaborik's play and needing to be better quite a bit... I'm critical of Avery.... I'd be more vocal/critical of Anisimov's play if he wasn't a 2nd year player... I don't see anything wrong with being critical of our players at times... If you do, I'm not sure why...
Hah I stopped reading after you said "Why is everything one extreme or the other with your reactions to some posts? If somebody says something critical of the player, that doesn't mean you should just lump them with people calling for the player to be traded."
I think you missed the part where I said I referred to you in this thread because you're the one taking the opposing side. I never stated in any post that you wanted him traded or benched. I stated that many people have and that I don't understand what it is that they propose happen.
You've yet to do that either, but instead have spun it into something where you think I'm saying you don't like Gaborik and want him traded.
Gaborik has struggled this year. In other news, the sky is blue.
And for Fitzy, cause I know you loathe Avery, I do wonder why you continually reference his point totals as if you think he's a 60 point player or something. This is a serious question too. I do always feel like you always bring up Avery's goals or points as if you're trying to make a case against his lack of production, yet all it does is prove all the time how he's doing exactly what he's done his whole career.
Boyle's got 18 goals, but only 27 points. 7 more points than Sean. And I would be thrilled if people wanted to compare their TOI this season.
Like I said Fitz it's an honest question cause as long as I've been around these boards you always seem to get on Avery's production when all he does is produce at his average rate.
Sean had 31 points last year. He needs 11 to match it this year in the last 30 games. And his TOI in half the games this season has been embarrassing.
There is a distinction to be made between goals and points.
Of course, pointwise Avery is not off from what he normally has done throughout his career.
A couple things this year from Avery I haven't liked;
He is snakebit with goals. Hopefully he breaks that soon.
He looks unhappy all the time. This may be trivial but I recall he was the only player not to salute the crowd after several home victories.
For the first half of the season, he took the largest number of low percentage shots instead f carrying the puck in and trying to make something out of it.
But I think really what it comes down to for me is that we have Dubinsky, Prospal, Wolski, Fedotenko, Avery down the LW side. And of those 4, I value Avery the least. If we move Prospal to center, I'd be more than happy if Avery played.
I'm pretty ambiguous on. I'd be content with either. Of the three, Drury is the one I definately want scratched right now. Of course, chances are, we'll have another injury at some point.
I'm not saying he should be immune to criticism. Just that a lot of the criticism on the board has been extreme.
Finishing has been the issue. If he was floating around I could understand the vitriol. The guy works hard and has generated chances. He's an asset and the least of our worries.
There were a few clowns who were advocating trading him, but I think most posters on here are just venting because they expect more of him. He's been working harder lately so hopefully the goals will come, I think Avery's a good linemate for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze
Exactly. When players are inconsistent and underperform for stretches, we should have no qualms about discussing it or pointing it out... No player should be immune from criticism... It also doesn't mean that any particular person has it out for these players.... They are mere observations.... Anisimov is another player who has been inconsistent this year... But when you factor in his age, inexperience, and meager salary, it's not as big of an issue as it is with a player in Gaborik's position.... Elite veteran forward who makes a hefty salary....
There are certainly double standards on this board when it comes to calling out some players. Player such Frolov, Rozy, Drury, have gotten the brunt of the criticism this year, sometimes undeservedly so, but if Gaborik disappears for a stretch or Staal has a bad game, some people get upset if they are criticized. Doesn't mean they are bad players or that they should be shipped out, we just know that these players are capable of more so it's pretty noticeable when they underperform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz
And Drury has been absolutely horrendous and obviously a bigger albatross on this franchise.
i'll be worried if Gaborik is in a rut next year. This year seems to be a fluke for several high-profile elite players. Ilya Kovalchuk ring a bell?
Just because Drury has underperformed doesn't mean that we can't comment on the fact that Gaborik has underperformed as well. Everyone's quick to point out that Gaborik's struggles may be due to his injuries, the same mantra applies to Drury, who not only broke the same finger twice this season but has suffered multiple concussions in his career.
As long as Gaborik scores around .5 goals per game while healthy, I'm not going to make a big stink about when he scores, or the convenience of it.
He hasn't this year. But he hasn't been the recipient of the amount of hail-mary passes, Gaborik first built offense that he was last year. Maybe Gaborik is more of a 30 goal scorer in a complementary offense.
You can tell how much it's bothered Aves this year. How many times lately have we seen him get robbed or miss and look to the heavens?
I think it's been a combination of things this year. One is the fact that Torts definitely limited his ice time in a ton of games. When he plays with Gabby he's almost playing the role of a play maker. He's not bad at it, but it's not like he's Prospal behind the net waiting for the right time to slide the puck to Gabby.
I think it's hurt him not getting a chance to really play solid minutes on a line where he can just go to the front of the net and screen and look for rebounds. Those were always his goals in the past and he hasn't had any of those this year.
I definitely think Drury should be scratched but I just don't see it happening. It's not like a Langenbrunner situation where the coach isn't getting along with him and there's factions in the locker room. All we ever hear from Torts is how much he loves him and what a team guy he is. Factor in his PK ability and he's the only center on our team who wins faceoffs and I think Sean could be the odd man out by no fault of his own.
I like your lines up there and think it could work IF Torts would commit to rolling 4 lines. Unfortunately I have no faith in him doing that and think it'll be extremely interesting to see how he balances all this.
Just because Drury has underperformed doesn't mean that we can't comment on the fact that Gaborik has underperformed as well. Everyone's quick to point out that Gaborik's struggles may be due to his injuries, the same mantra applies to Drury, who not only broke the same finger twice this season but has suffered multiple concussions in his career.
What's interesting to me (and I am NO Drury fan and want him scratched) is how many people don't consider the ****** situation Drury has been put in.
I won't try and defend him because his play has certainly warranted this some would argue.
But I'd like to see any player in the league go through what Drury has this year injury wise, then come back and get 4th line minutes (his TOI stats are a little skewed due to the PK) along side linemates like Newbury and Weise and see how their offensive stats are.
I think StingE in other posts has made the comment of Drury being used on the power play due to most of his goals being scored that way over his career. I actually love the idea. I just think he's a smart player I really think it's something that should be tried due to how abysmal the power play has been.
Chris has not been good, but it's not like he's been getting 17 minutes a game alongside Gabby and Dubi or something and hasn't scored a goal.
He's kind of in a situation that's not conducive to scoring.
As long as Gaborik scores around .5 goals per game while healthy, I'm not going to make a big stink about when he scores, or the convenience of it.
He hasn't this year. But he hasn't been the recipient of the amount of hail-mary passes, Gaborik first built offense that he was last year. Maybe Gaborik is more of a 30 goal scorer in a complementary offense.
When Stepan gets a few seasons under his belt, or we get Richards, I don't think you can say 30 goals is what Gaborik can score.
I wish Torts would punish him every time he skates the puck behind the net instead of letting loose a wrister,though.
Glad to see Prospal activated few days back there, but noticed that the title on this thread says he'll return Thursday...but most people seem to be indicating he'll be back for Tuesdays game...is he for sure for tomorrow?
Glad to see Prospal activated few days back there, but noticed that the title on this thread says he'll return Thursday...but most people seem to be indicating he'll be back for Tuesdays game...is he for sure for tomorrow?
Vinny will NOT play tomorrow. Torts wants him to get 2 more practices under his belt because he hasn't played at all this season. He is slated for Thursday night against the Devils.
If Vinny comes back Thursday, that should mean the end of Grachev's stint here.
Dubinsky thrown in the mix could shake things up too, but people seem really iffy on his return. Could be tomorrow, could be a whole extra week.
Things wont really get jammed until EC and Fedotenko come back. Those will be the two extra guys.
Torts seems to love Feds though. I think EC is a given to be a healthy scratch, but I can't see them scratching Drury. If that's true then it comes down to Feds and Avery. I think just speculating for sure Avery would be the odd man out. Torts loves Feds and no matter what he says about Sean I think we all know how he feels. Not to mention he can reunite the Prust-Boyle-Feds line.
One of my biggest fears with a healthy roster is the role/ice time Stepan receives.
He has been nothing short of amazing his rookie year.
I would not be surprised to see Arty as the center who draws the short stick.
I don't think any center will get the "short stick," so to speak.
If we don't get Richards, Stepan becomes the number 1 while Anisimov becomes a great two-way second liner.
If we do, Stepan slots into second and Anismov becomes one of the better 3rd liners in the league, and his defensive play makes him the most viable center to put in a "checking" role too.
However, with how our team seems to be setting up, I don't see our third line being a checking line as much as a scoring line with good defensive instincts, so i'm confident all of our centers will be given a chance to blossom offensively.
Unless you're talking about the organization trading him- even then I'd definitely keep Anisimov and he can be our mini-Jordan Staal.
Well by extra I meant that they'll start disrupting. Not that they'll be the scratches.
Before EC and Feds come back we'll have our 12; Gaborik, Stepan, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Boyle, Prust, Avery, Drury, Wolski, Zuccarello, Prospal
I think it depends on how we're playing. Feds I think will be in, unless we're on some sort of 5 game winning streak. EC i'm not sure on.
I don't think any center will get the "short stick," so to speak.
If we don't get Richards, Stepan becomes the number 1 while Anisimov becomes a great two-way second liner.
If we do, Stepan slots into second and Anismov becomes one of the better 3rd liners in the league, and his defensive play makes him the most viable center to put in a "checking" role too.
However, with how our team seems to be setting up, I don't see our third line being a checking line as much as a scoring line with good defensive instincts, so i'm confident all of our centers will be given a chance to blossom offensively.
Unless you're talking about the organization trading him- even then I'd definitely keep Anisimov and he can be our mini-Jordan Staal.
I'm not talking about anyone getting trade just TOI.
Boyle's ice time is not getting limited.
Prospal's presence will be an interesting cog in the machine based on where he played.
If Vinny is at center then you basically have Step and and Arty at 3 and 4.
It's going to be very interesting to see how he plays it.
Avery really has that intangible that he can really piss other teams off. He's not been as consistent doing it the last couple years and part of that IMO is Tortorella and part of it is physical toll over the years. Down low and in the corners he can be very effective. I agree with Fitzy that he doesn't always appear to be that happy--his role is lesser one though (which may explain the small falloff in his productivity--couple that with less time on ice). In the end though you know he's a guy you can go to war with--though in the case of the last playoff series we played against Washington--he needs to keep his composure. Avery has dropped the gloves a number of times this year. He's been a real ***** with Smid and Carle but he's also faced off against the likes of Asham and Hendricks. It's all to the good as far as I'm concerned. He's been an every day player--so far has not missed a game. All in all he's still a good player.
I have tickets to the game Thursday night and will be going as long as NJ Transit is up and running.... I'll be so pumped to see Vinny P back in the line-up.... Love his intensity and passion.....
I have tickets to the game Thursday night and will be going as long as NJ Transit is up and running.... I'll be so pumped to see Vinny P back in the line-up.... Love his intensity and passion.....
going to the game Monday in Detroit and everyone but Feds is back by then. Gonna be great. Hoping for them to squeak one out
I think were all, myself included, jumping the gun a little bit with giving guys roster spots back. Prospal coming off a knee injury/surgery could be a completely different play and skater, samegoes for christensen; either of the two could have lost a step or two, lost a good amount of stamina and for those two that will drastically effect their game. Torts said it himself there's a lot of guys back and in practice, which is creating a lot of healthy competition for the few roster spots that can he opened up. Banking on the past with EC and prospal could be a mistake and IMO aside from drury not one guy on this team has played themselves out of a spot, every player from Avery to Artie to gabby has stepped it up and found their niches so to speak while our team has been ravished by injury and lineup really shaken up. I wouldn't be surprised to see all these projected lineups all be ass backwards if avery does better in practice than EC and prospal and shows he deserves the spot,if prospal is ineffective and a complete 180 of his old self, and if EC lost his shot or something; crazier things have happened(drury:example A) Basically what I'm saying is guys get injured, and when they come back it's not like they return to old form as if they just took a leasurly break from hockey and are back.
I have tickets to the game Thursday night and will be going as long as NJ Transit is up and running.... I'll be so pumped to see Vinny P back in the line-up.... Love his intensity and passion.....
I'm jealous wolfgaze. Can you imagine what kind of celebration he will have if/when he scores?
