HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Notices

Darcy Hordichuk 'Not Thrilled' with playing time

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-20-2011, 03:55 PM
  #1
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Darcy Hordichuk 'Not Thrilled' with playing time

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...tning-joe.html

Shocker.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 03:59 PM
  #2
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,973
vCash: 500
“He's averaging for us about what he's averaged his whole career,'' DeBoer said. “When we got him, we weren't going to turn him from a five-minute player into a 10 or a 15 minute player.''

Who are you going to take ice time away from? Hordi has played well but he is what he is. A fighter who gets very limited ice time. I'd rather have Booth double shift on that fourth line than him.

Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...#ixzz1BcCyEvJh

RainingRats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 04:00 PM
  #3
harv3317
Registered User
 
harv3317's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,286
vCash: 500
i agree with hordi. he's physical and intimidates. he's not a defensive liability and can help turn the tide when teams start to dominate us!!!!! i think this is yet another criticism of deboer's mangement of team assets!!!!

harv3317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 04:36 PM
  #4
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
“He's averaging for us about what he's averaged his whole career,'' DeBoer said. “When we got him, we weren't going to turn him from a five-minute player into a 10 or a 15 minute player.''

Who are you going to take ice time away from? Hordi has played well but he is what he is. A fighter who gets very limited ice time. I'd rather have Booth double shift on that fourth line than him.

Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...#ixzz1BcCyEvJh
That's the same link I posted.

And I'd rather not double-shift anyone since this team doesn't really have an elite forward, anyway.

This team plays its best when its rolling four lines.

For what it's worth, Hordichuk has outplayed Bernier lately in his limited ice time.

If DeBoer is going to coach this team, give him players that he's willing to play, consistently. Again, this team is at its best when its rolling four lines. It's been that way for awhile now.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 04:38 PM
  #5
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 7,997
vCash: 500
Just another example of pd's inability to handle vets, and his inherent softness. Hordi has been great for the team, has not been a liability. And there was no reason to shut him down after the fight, IMHO. Another pissed off experienced player..geez

adam graves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 04:41 PM
  #6
Montsy14
Registered User
 
Montsy14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,824
vCash: 50
Hordichuk knows his role...whether he gets 5 minutes or 10 minutes, he's expected to bring the same thing every shift. What do you expect Deboer to do? If he was a more versatile player, he'd get more ice-time, its as simple as that.

Montsy14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 05:16 PM
  #7
asleepinthechapel
Registered User
 
asleepinthechapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: N Plm Bch/Atlanta
Posts: 291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Just another example of pd's inability to handle vets, and his inherent softness. Hordi has been great for the team, has not been a liability. And there was no reason to shut him down after the fight, IMHO. Another pissed off experienced player..geez
I love the narrow and mechanistic view of the DeBoer critics on these boards. When anything goes somewhat awry he always seems to be the scapegoat. The evidence supporting PD's ineptitude when dealing with players is minuscule as it primarily rests on a single pillar- the Boynton affair. Hordichuk having limited playing time I see to be an axiomatic truth- limited ice time is implied for one in an enforcer's role. Hordichuk's physicality and intimidation is overblown. The opposing team certainly do not shake in their skates when he takes the ice, and often times his physicality has resulted in unnecessary penalties despite his limited ice time. Furthermore, perhaps Hordi has yet to be seen as liability because he has not been given significant ice-time. The Panthers are much more likely to see Booth score a goal being double-shifted than Hordichuk playing five extra minutes.

I'm puzzled as to how Hordichuk has so apparently outplayed Bernier.

asleepinthechapel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 05:21 PM
  #8
Southern Hockey
Registered User
 
Southern Hockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jupiter
Posts: 375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by asleepinthechapel View Post
I love the narrow and mechanistic view of the DeBoer critics on these boards. When anything goes somewhat awry he always seems to be the scapegoat. The evidence supporting PD's ineptitude when dealing with players is minuscule as it primarily rests on a single pillar- the Boynton affair. Hordichuk having limited playing time I see to be an axiomatic truth- limited ice time is implied for one in an enforcer's role. Hordichuk's physicality and intimidation is overblown. The opposing team certainly do not shake in their skates when he takes the ice, and often times his physicality has resulted in unnecessary penalties despite his limited ice time. Furthermore, perhaps Hordi has yet to be seen as liability because he has not been given significant ice-time. The Panthers are much more likely to see Booth score a goal being double-shifted than Hordichuk playing five extra minutes.

I'm puzzled as to how Hordichuk has so apparently outplayed Bernier.
I agree. Hordichuk is an enforcer, and a quite monochromatic one at that.

Anyone making a discussion out of this is just looking for ammunition to propogate their PDB scapegoating, and quite frankly, they are grasping at straws.


Last edited by Southern Hockey: 01-20-2011 at 05:22 PM. Reason: uit
Southern Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 05:21 PM
  #9
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,973
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by asleepinthechapel View Post
I love the narrow and mechanistic view of the DeBoer critics on these boards. When anything goes somewhat awry he always seems to be the scapegoat. The evidence supporting PD's ineptitude when dealing with players is minuscule as it primarily rests on a single pillar- the Boynton affair. Hordichuk having limited playing time I see to be an axiomatic truth- limited ice time is implied for one in an enforcer's role. Hordichuk's physicality and intimidation is overblown. The opposing team certainly do not shake in their skates when he takes the ice, and often times his physicality has resulted in unnecessary penalties despite his limited ice time. Furthermore, perhaps Hordi has yet to be seen as liability because he has not been given significant ice-time. The Panthers are much more likely to see Booth score a goal being double-shifted than Hordichuk playing five extra minutes.

I'm puzzled as to how Hordichuk has so apparently outplayed Bernier.
I think Hordi has outplayed Bernier within their respective roles but I agree 100% with everything you have said. It's gotten to the point where they'll complain about anything.

I can't believe people want Hordi to have MORE ice time for a guy who never scores. Pete is doing the right thing by double shifting our leading goal scorer. He's trying to increase our chances of putting the games away.

RainingRats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 05:31 PM
  #10
Southern Hockey
Registered User
 
Southern Hockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jupiter
Posts: 375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I think Hordi has outplayed Bernier within their respective roles but I agree 100% with everything you have said. It's gotten to the point where they'll complain about anything.

I can't believe people want Hordi to have MORE ice time for a guy who never scores. Pete is doing the right thing by double shifting our leading goal scorer. He's trying to increase our chances of putting the games away.
This.

It's not even the fact that they want Hordichuk to have more ice time.

It's come to the point now where topics that normally wouldn't elicit a second thought are being analyzed with the predisposition to use it as an excuse to lay blame on DeBoer.

This burgeoning trend of blaming PDB is getting out of hand quickly. Should he be absolved of all responsibility? No. But when people begin saying they're glad Kulikov is injured and not benched, it becomes quite clear that they are beyond reason in blaming PDB.

Southern Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 06:02 PM
  #11
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 7,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Hockey View Post
This.

It's not even the fact that they want Hordichuk to have more ice time.

It's come to the point now where topics that normally wouldn't elicit a second thought are being analyzed with the predisposition to use it as an excuse to lay blame on DeBoer.

This burgeoning trend of blaming PDB is getting out of hand quickly. Should he be absolved of all responsibility? No. But when people begin saying they're glad Kulikov is injured and not benched, it becomes quite clear that they are beyond reason in blaming PDB.
Relax. NJCF explained his post already on the appropriate thread. It seems beyond reason to bring it up here.

This thread is about Hordis upset with PD not giving him enough ice time. Reasonable minds would opine on whether PD is or isnt playing Hordi enough. After Hordis fight, there was no rational reason to bench him for the remainder of the game. a couple of more shifts would have benefited the team. What was PD afraid of, losing a lead?

adam graves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 07:36 PM
  #12
panthersfan751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Relax. NJCF explained his post already on the appropriate thread. It seems beyond reason to bring it up here.

This thread is about Hordis upset with PD not giving him enough ice time. Reasonable minds would opine on whether PD is or isnt playing Hordi enough. After Hordis fight, there was no rational reason to bench him for the remainder of the game. a couple of more shifts would have benefited the team. What was PD afraid of, losing a lead?
It also is interesting to note that DeBoer has already made us get rid of Belak and MacIntyre in consecutive years because he wouldn't play them enough.

panthersfan751 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 07:43 PM
  #13
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,455
vCash: 500
I don't have any problem with Hordichuk's limited minutes. You have problems if you are relying on him to have significant minutes, you have significant problems.

What would concern me (if I had any hope of near term success for this team) is that players like Hordichuk & Vokoun are starting to air their laundry in public and PDB is responding in kind. Yes, it's a symptom of losing, but it also suggests some behind the scenes problems.

angry_treefrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 07:51 PM
  #14
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,455
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
It also is interesting to note that DeBoer has already made us get rid of Belak and MacIntyre in consecutive years because he wouldn't play them enough.
Enforcers are of limited value. They are like battleships in the age of the nuclear submarine... at sea they are useful for fighting other battleships but little else. They are all getting mothballed.

This team needs bangers... pests... people who throw their bodies around in the corners and in front of the net... players who throw the other team's skill players off their game and make players keep note of when they are on the ice. Neither Belak, nor MacIntyre, nor Hordichuk has done any of those things.

angry_treefrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 07:57 PM
  #15
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 7,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Enforcers are of limited value. They are like battleships in the age of the nuclear submarine... at sea they are useful for fighting other battleships but little else. They are all getting mothballed.

This team needs bangers... pests... people who throw their bodies around in the corners and in front of the net... players who throw the other team's skill players off their game and make players keep note of when they are on the ice. Neither Belak, nor MacIntyre, nor Hordichuk has done any of those things.
Sounds like...wait for it...Avery?

adam graves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 08:10 PM
  #16
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,455
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Sounds like...wait for it...Avery?
Yeah, if you could add a Sean Avery minus the baggage, that would help this team much more than a premiere pugilist. I was hoping that perhaps Duco could develop into that player.

angry_treefrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:04 PM
  #17
KWGoon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,193
vCash: 500
I can't agree that "enforcers" have no value. Not saying that Hordi is exactly the right guy for the role, but he's not too bad either. He's usable, but PDB is not using him -- ever. An effectively used tough guy will keep the likes of Lucic from running into Vokoun without retaliation. PDB never has, and apparently never will use intimidation either to the team's advantage or to even out the other guy's goons.

To me that's a rather big negative in PDB. It's possibly keeping us form winning some games, or worse, in some cases it's contributing to the other team's comeback. All the other team needs to do is start playing a bit tough and rough in the second period and the Cats are yesterday's meow.

KWGoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:17 PM
  #18
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 27,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Enforcers are of limited value. They are like battleships in the age of the nuclear submarine... at sea they are useful for fighting other battleships but little else. They are all getting mothballed.

This team needs bangers... pests... people who throw their bodies around in the corners and in front of the net... players who throw the other team's skill players off their game and make players keep note of when they are on the ice. Neither Belak, nor MacIntyre, nor Hordichuk has done any of those things.
Of course, I don't agree with most of this. Enforcers are effective, watch Philly, Anaheim, teams who know how to use their tough guys, but also have more players who can play a more physical game. Shelly got in the face of Avery a few games ago and Avery backed down a bit. Parros, one of the less successful fighters in the League but always willing to go, is always in the opposition's face. Teams with physical players, who know how to use their enforcers, are effective. Florida doesn't have overly physical guys, and they certainly don't know how to use their enforcer. Pittsburgh has a slew of guys who're great fighters.

Pests, like Avery, Ott, Cooke, all have enforcers on their teams. Pesty players need one to be terribly effective. I don't think those guys really are overly effective, though, I mean, how many teams with those guys have won a Cup recently? Cooke did, but look who else is on that team.

The Panthers are very soft team, and DeBoer doesn't use his enforcer properly. However, the coach and enforcer are limited because this team is so soft. It sucks because we can use a guy like Brad Richards, but we also need a guy like Getzlaf or Mike Richards more.

__________________
So you're saying there's a chance!
Laus723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:21 PM
  #19
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by asleepinthechapel View Post
I love the narrow and mechanistic view of the DeBoer critics on these boards. When anything goes somewhat awry he always seems to be the scapegoat. The evidence supporting PD's ineptitude when dealing with players is minuscule as it primarily rests on a single pillar- the Boynton affair. Hordichuk having limited playing time I see to be an axiomatic truth- limited ice time is implied for one in an enforcer's role. Hordichuk's physicality and intimidation is overblown. The opposing team certainly do not shake in their skates when he takes the ice, and often times his physicality has resulted in unnecessary penalties despite his limited ice time. Furthermore, perhaps Hordi has yet to be seen as liability because he has not been given significant ice-time. The Panthers are much more likely to see Booth score a goal being double-shifted than Hordichuk playing five extra minutes.

I'm puzzled as to how Hordichuk has so apparently outplayed Bernier.
YOU have outplayed Bernier, lately. It's not that difficult.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:23 PM
  #20
Thin Ice
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
I can't agree that "enforcers" have no value. Not saying that Hordi is exactly the right guy for the role, but he's not too bad either. He's usable, but PDB is not using him -- ever. An effectively used tough guy will keep the likes of Lucic from running into Vokoun without retaliation. PDB never has, and apparently never will use intimidation either to the team's advantage or to even out the other guy's goons.

To me that's a rather big negative in PDB. It's possibly keeping us form winning some games, or worse, in some cases it's contributing to the other team's comeback. All the other team needs to do is start playing a bit tough and rough in the second period and the Cats are yesterday's meow.
Agreed. We seem to have a meltdown in the second, what have we got to lose by sending Hordi out for a few more minutes in each game? The last 2 games were some of the most painful the fans have had to watch!! PDB says he can fix it yet we go and do the same thing 2 games in a row!!!

Thin Ice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:26 PM
  #21
asleepinthechapel
Registered User
 
asleepinthechapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: N Plm Bch/Atlanta
Posts: 291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
YOU have outplayed Bernier, lately. It's not that difficult.
Expand? Offer some explanation? Arguing by assertion instead of demonstration is an affliction on these boards. He missed an open net, so what. He is a 4th line checking forward, I am not sure how he is so desperately failing everyone's expectations.

asleepinthechapel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:36 PM
  #22
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by asleepinthechapel View Post
Expand? Offer some explanation? Arguing by assertion instead of demonstration is an affliction on these boards. He missed an open net, so what. He is a 4th line checking forward, I am not sure how he is so desperately failing everyone's expectations.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Bernier's been terrible lately.
I wasn't expecting much, but he's producing nothing. Also, DeBoer benched him not so long ago for his lack of physicality.

He's one of those players who seems to float and become non-existent when he's not scoring.

I'm pretty sure he won't be here for long, if he continues at this rate.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:49 PM
  #23
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,455
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Of course, I don't agree with most of this. Enforcers are effective, watch Philly, Anaheim, teams who know how to use their tough guys, but also have more players who can play a more physical game. Shelly got in the face of Avery a few games ago and Avery backed down a bit. Parros, one of the less successful fighters in the League but always willing to go, is always in the opposition's face. Teams with physical players, who know how to use their enforcers, are effective. Florida doesn't have overly physical guys, and they certainly don't know how to use their enforcer. Pittsburgh has a slew of guys who're great fighters.

Pests, like Avery, Ott, Cooke, all have enforcers on their teams. Pesty players need one to be terribly effective. I don't think those guys really are overly effective, though, I mean, how many teams with those guys have won a Cup recently? Cooke did, but look who else is on that team.

The Panthers are very soft team, and DeBoer doesn't use his enforcer properly. However, the coach and enforcer are limited because this team is so soft. It sucks because we can use a guy like Brad Richards, but we also need a guy like Getzlaf or Mike Richards more.
You don't? I'm shocked!

Look, if you can find a player who can skate, hit, clear the crease AND drop the gloves... you have a damned useful player. Having a player who only does the latter is of limited value. With the instigator rule, he's largely only useful for fighting other enforcers in set piece engagements. Teams are not intimidated by a boxer sitting on the bench if that's all he does. If your enforcer threatens to punch out Avery, Avery just skates away. Enforcer neutralized. Now if the enforcer were to plaster Avery into the boards at his first opportunity, that will get Avery's attention pretty quickly. That's what the Panthers are missing.

I don't want this to devolve into another thread on enforcers in general so let's not go there. You and I have somewhat different opinions, which is OK. My opinion is that unless Hordichuk can bring something outside of fighting another team's fighter, he can't gripe about limited ice time.

I agree with the 2nd bolded text wholeheartedly.


Last edited by angry_treefrog: 01-20-2011 at 10:12 PM.
angry_treefrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 10:13 PM
  #24
ratmanfu
Registered User
 
ratmanfu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Country: Spain
Posts: 8,400
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to ratmanfu
I definitely would like to see Duco out there as our agitator.

ratmanfu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 10:28 PM
  #25
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 27,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
You don't? I'm shocked!

Look, if you can find a player who can skate, hit, clear the crease AND drop the gloves... you have a damned useful player. Having a player who only does the latter is of limited value. With the instigator rule, he's largely only useful for fighting other enforcers in set piece engagements. Teams are not intimidated by a boxer sitting on the bench if that's all he does. If your enforcer threatens to punch out Avery, Avery just skates away. Enforcer neutralized. Now if the enforcer were to plaster Avery into the boards at his first opportunity, that will get Avery's attention pretty quickly. That's what the Panthers are missing.

I don't want this to devolve into another thread on enforcers in general so let's not go there. You and I have somewhat different opinions, which is OK. My opinion is that unless Hordichuk can bring something outside of fighting another team's fighter, he can't gripe about limited ice time.

I agree with the 2nd bolded text wholeheartedly.
Well, the bolded sentence is pretty much why Hordi's ineffective. Pitt, Philly, Anaheim, and a handful of other teams have some highly skilled guys and guys who're effective enforcers. Detroit has highly skilled guys (as do the others, Detroit just does't have a fighter) who are VERY physical. We just have some skilled guys who tend to shy away from physical play.

What I'm trying to say, and I think you and the others get it, is that with those teams, the rest of the team skates around roughing up the opposition, and they've got a tough guy who can back up their play when necessary. As I said with Boogaard, Shelly, Engelland, Asham, and Godard being on those teams. Detroit's just a juggernaut. Florida is squarely relying on Allen at times and Hordi for the rough stuff. That's ineffective and doesn't work.

I don't think all enforcers are useful, helpful, or necessary. I personally think aside from Hordi (who I just don't think hurts this team, actually does some good things out there when he's allowed to be, and I just don't think DeBoer will ever trust a tough guy period), the Panthers could use a guy like Rypien, or Neil. Neil much moreso, but about everyone will go with Rypien, and he's a very good fighter. (though, apparently not all that right in the head).

I honestly thought Hordi was going to be used and be much more effective than Belak or MacIntyre were, but DeBoer just doesn't use enforcers.

Laus723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.