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Ottawa @ Philly, 20 Jan 2011

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Old
01-21-2011, 11:30 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
No, no. Pretty sure if you poll people Shelly would look like a puss in boots. Not as much as O'Donnell, but still looked like a big meathead who was terrified of fighting Carkner - but would settle for Neil.

Fair enough as well, Carkner is one of the undisputed heavyweight kings now, these guys should be wary of him - ask Boogard about it.
Old Man O'Donnell looked like a meathead for not fighting Carkner, "one of the indisputed heavyweight kings"?

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01-21-2011, 11:31 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
No, no. Pretty sure if you poll people Shelly would look like a puss in boots. Not as much as O'Donnell, but still looked like a big meathead who was terrified of fighting Carkner - but would settle for Neil.

Fair enough as well, Carkner is one of the undisputed heavyweight kings now, these guys should be wary of him - ask Boogard about it.
Doesn't matter what they think, he did what he was paid a ******** amount of money to do, and that's not let the situation get out of control. And he did that because after he fought Neil, nothing else happened. Shelley doesn't back down from people, he's fought pretty much every heavyweight in the league. It wasn't about fighting Carkner, who is the same size, it was about taking care of business.

If the Senators were still pissed off about it, they would have gone out and started taking liberties and such, and nobody better start with the "class" argument because that's not how it works here.

And Carkner as an "undisputed heavyweight king" might happen one day if he ever gets to a point where Colton Orr stops kicking his ass.

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01-21-2011, 11:31 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Old Man O'Donnell looked like a meathead for not fighting Carkner, "one of the indisputed heavyweight kings"?
No, Shelly looked like a big meathead who was terrified of Carkner. O'Donnell just looked...pathetic frankly - although, again, I don't blame him.

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01-21-2011, 11:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Doesn't matter what they think, he did what he was paid a ******** amount of money to do, and that's not let the situation get out of control. And he did that because after he fought Neil, nothing else happened. Shelley doesn't back down from people, he's fought pretty much every heavyweight in the league. It wasn't about fighting Carkner, who is the same size, it was about taking care of business.

If the Senators were still pissed off about it, they would have gone out and started taking liberties and such, and nobody better start with the "class" argument because that's not how it works here.
Everyone knows if Shelly fought Carkner, things would have been under control pretty quick. Call it what you want, but it looked like Shelly was backing down from Carkner in a big, big way.

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01-21-2011, 11:35 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
No, Shelly looked like a big meathead who was terrified of Carkner. O'Donnell just looked...pathetic frankly - although, again, I don't blame him.
Aaah, thanks for clearing that up. O'Donnell has no business fighting Carkner, so I couldn't figure out how he was the bad guy.

Let me ask you something. If Shelley fought Carkner, what or who would have stopped Neil from running around like an idiot? Shelley didn't have a beef with Carkner. He did have with Neil, and dealt with it appropriately.

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01-21-2011, 11:35 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Everyone knows if Shelly fought Carkner, things would have been under control pretty quick. Call it what you want, but it looked like Shelly was backing down from Carkner in a big, big way.
No it wouldn't. It just takes Shelley off the ice with a guy who had nothing to do with the situation. Now Laviolette has to start putting Pronger and O'Donnell out to enforce people when they're not in a position to do that, since that's what Shelley here for.

Carkner's job was to get Shelley off the ice, and he couldn't do it, so the other Senators could keep trying to fight people. Maybe Carkner is a better fighter, but part of being a good enforcer means you need to be on the ice to enforce too, not just fight because the other guy wants to.

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01-21-2011, 11:40 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
No it wouldn't. It just takes Shelley off the ice with a guy who had nothing to do with the situation. Now Laviolette has to start putting Pronger and O'Donnell out to enforce people when they're not in a position to do that, since that's what Shelley here for.

Carkner's job was to get Shelley off the ice, and he couldn't do it, so the other Senators could keep trying to fight people. Maybe Carkner is a better fighter, but part of being a good enforcer means you need to be on the ice to enforce too, not just fight because the other guy wants to.
I think it works both ways. Would Neil be running around after Carkner and Shelly did what they had to do? Or would the situation be defused? Instead, we have a line brawl and O'Donnell begging for his life. There were two people who needed to fight, one was Giroux - and good for him and the second was Shelly, doesn't matter who it was with, it had to happen. There was a good opportunity for Carkner and Shelly to settle this whole thing and Shelly turned away. That's as bad or worse than any fallout that could have happened because it almost cost O'Donnell his life and it lead to a literal line brawl.

Whatever, I guess what's done is done. Giroux might want to chill out on running around though - as I'm sure Flyer fans are painfully aware of.

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01-21-2011, 11:42 AM
  #58
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Hockeyfights has Ottawa winning 3, drawing 1 and losing 1. Seems about right to anyone objectively viewing the fights.

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01-21-2011, 11:42 AM
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Beautiful. The NHL needs more of this.

Of course, Bettman probably phoned both teams threatening to suspend everyone 'til the cows come home if one of their players even looks at someone funny from here to April. Head office didn't like this AT ALL.

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01-21-2011, 11:54 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I think it works both ways. Would Neil be running around after Carkner and Shelly did what they had to do? Or would the situation be defused? Instead, we have a line brawl and O'Donnell begging for his life. There were two people who needed to fight, one was Giroux - and good for him and the second was Shelly, doesn't matter who it was with, it had to happen. There was a good opportunity for Carkner and Shelly to settle this whole thing and Shelly turned away. That's as bad or worse than any fallout that could have happened because it almost cost O'Donnell his life and it lead to a literal line brawl.

Whatever, I guess what's done is done. Giroux might want to chill out on running around though - as I'm sure Flyer fans are painfully aware of.
You sound unsure. Maybe it would be diffused? You have to ask? You're asking questions. I'm not. It was diffused. I'm not wondering about anything because nothing else happened after that. If the Senators thought Shelley just wanted to pick on someone smaller, they could have returned the favor by sending more guys after us.

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01-21-2011, 12:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You sound unsure. Maybe it would be diffused? You have to ask? You're asking questions. I'm not. It was diffused. I'm not wondering about anything because nothing else happened after that. If the Senators thought Shelley just wanted to pick on someone smaller, they could have returned the favor by sending more guys after us.
If Carkner had hurt O'Donnell, would you still be thinking that 'nothing else happened"? And I don't mean punch him and bloody his nose, I mean Boogard him, would that have been something to be pleased about in Philly? Because that's sure as heck what could have happened last night because of Shelly's refusal to fight Carkner.

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01-21-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Everyone knows if Shelly fought Carkner, things would have been under control pretty quick. Call it what you want, but it looked like Shelly was backing down from Carkner in a big, big way.
No they dont. He wasnt backing down in the sense he was scared. If you believe that your a clown. As explained numerous times, he wanted neil for what he did to giroux. He did his job. What briere did is disappoiting imo. i dont care if your a no fighter, at some point you need to drop the gloves. Would have loved to see JVR get up and fight as well instead of that little slash while he was lying down. I believe a fight would do jvr wonders for his game as then he has that hurdle out of the way so to speak.

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01-21-2011, 12:05 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
If Carkner had hurt O'Donnell, would you still be thinking that 'nothing else happened"? And I don't mean punch him and bloody his nose, I mean Boogard him, would that have been something to be pleased about in Philly? Because that's sure as heck what could have happened last night because of Shelly's refusal to fight Carkner.
No, because O'Donnell wasn't going to get hurt because he knew what he was doing. The guy's been around longer than God, he knows how to not get killed.

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01-21-2011, 12:06 PM
  #64
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No, because O'Donnell wasn't going to get hurt because he knew what he was doing. The guy's been around longer than God, he knows how to not get killed.
Yeah right. Carkner let him turtle, it could have been very different, you're naive to think differently.

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01-21-2011, 12:07 PM
  #65
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man its a shame hartnell/ruutu didnt go on a bit longer they were really swingin

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01-21-2011, 12:09 PM
  #66
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Yeah right. Carkner let him turtle, it could have been very different, you're naive to think differently.
He did it to keep him out of the way. He let him through a few punches because he wanted a fight, and then hit the deck.

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01-21-2011, 12:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
If Carkner had hurt O'Donnell, would you still be thinking that 'nothing else happened"? And I don't mean punch him and bloody his nose, I mean Boogard him, would that have been something to be pleased about in Philly? Because that's sure as heck what could have happened last night because of Shelly's refusal to fight Carkner.
oh well that is part of the game. Cant deal in a world of what if's. Odonnel is big boy who can handle himself, surpsied he turtled.

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01-21-2011, 12:21 PM
  #68
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O'Donnell has no business fighting Carkner, so I couldn't figure out how he was the bad guy.
I can't figure out why Neil is a "meathead" (your words) and gooning it up by sticking up for Winchester and going after Giroux for a questionable hit late in a blowout, but Shelley is being a good enforcer by going after Neil?

Enforcer 101 dictates that Shelley should fight Carkner now, so next game should be interesting.

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01-21-2011, 12:21 PM
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I can't figure out why Neil is a "meathead" (your words) and gooning it up by sticking up for Winchester and going after Giroux for a questionable hit late in a blowout, but Shelley is being a good enforcer by going after Neil?

Enforcer 101 dictates that Shelley should fight Carkner now, so next game should be interesting.
Yep.

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01-21-2011, 12:29 PM
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I can't figure out why Neil is a "meathead" (your words) and gooning it up by sticking up for Winchester and going after Giroux for a questionable hit late in a blowout, but Shelley is being a good enforcer by going after Neil?

Enforcer 101 dictates that Shelley should fight Carkner now, so next game should be interesting.
not really, rarely does anything happen int he next game. Shelley will go with carkner. Then again when the sens are getting blwon out they might show a little heart and have some fights. That is the only way to give their fans something i suppose. If need be the flyers will make the appropriate lineup adjustments.

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01-21-2011, 12:36 PM
  #71
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The Senators came back to Philadelphia in April 2004, about a month after the brawl. I was at that game, and was bored to tears. Those expecting a Round 2 for Fight Night will be disappointed.

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01-21-2011, 12:47 PM
  #72
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I can't figure out why Neil is a "meathead" (your words) and gooning it up by sticking up for Winchester and going after Giroux for a questionable hit late in a blowout, but Shelley is being a good enforcer by going after Neil?

Enforcer 101 dictates that Shelley should fight Carkner now, so next game should be interesting.
Neil isn't necessarily a meathead for last night, but his entire body of work. Sorry, just not a fan. There's a wee bit of a size discrepancy between Neil and Giroux, which is where I have the issue. It'd be no different than if Shelley had grabbed Foligno - Shelley would be the meathead.

Perhaps you can enlighten me -- why does Shelley owe Carkner a fight?

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01-21-2011, 12:52 PM
  #73
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No, no. Pretty sure if you poll people Shelly would look like a puss in boots. Not as much as O'Donnell, but still looked like a big meathead who was terrified of fighting Carkner - but would settle for Neil.
What are you even talking about? O'Donnell was pretty willing, didn't get his left glove off and thus couldn't get a good grab on Carkner. As a result Carkner's right was totally free, and he started throwing hammers. O'Donnell, willing as he may be, isn't stupid enough to just stand there and let a guy like Carkner knock him out.

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01-21-2011, 12:58 PM
  #74
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Thought it was great, everybody pissing and moaning about wwho fought who and who didn't, who the hell cares? Thought Neil did ok for being out of his weight class, thought Giroux and Carter did ok for not being fighters, (although Foligno and Winchester aren't really either). Props to O'donnel for stepping up to carkner, who very obviously wanted a piece of Shelley, and Props to Carkner for not being an ass when O'donnell turtled(which he very much should have).
It's too bad Shelley and Carkner did not go, but I'm pretty sure they will next time.

The good old line brawl, where have you been?

And as a Sens fan, yeah we suck, but atleast we go down swinging, haha

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01-21-2011, 01:00 PM
  #75
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Perhaps you can enlighten me -- why does Shelley owe Carkner a fight?
For turning him down all game and then fighting the smaller Neil. Not a big deal, but as a heavy he owes Carkner a fight. Owes O'Donnell a beer too.

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