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Sens Rebuild

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Old
01-22-2011, 11:44 PM
  #26
TheStranger
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3 way trades happen once every two years or so...and most of the time it's fairly minor, with someone getting a 3rd round pick and a couple of prospects shuffling around...and 50% of all trades on here are 3 and 4 way trades.

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Old
01-23-2011, 12:29 AM
  #27
DG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
Lol andrepeterson is back!
This was my precise reaction.

I would rather trade our whole package for a guy with a smaller cap hit than Seguin. The only thing that matters is a player's cap hit. Therefore, I wouldn't do this. /andrepeterson logic

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Old
01-23-2011, 12:38 AM
  #28
Yelnats Puc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
This was my precise reaction.

I would rather trade our whole package for a guy with a smaller cap hit than Seguin. The only thing that matters is a player's cap hit. Therefore, I wouldn't do this. /andrepeterson logic
I got it!

First:

(Random NHL team):

Pick up Boris Valabik off re-entry waivers.

Then:

To Ottawa Senators:

Boris Valabik

To (Random NHL team):








GOLD!

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Old
01-23-2011, 01:43 AM
  #29
JuniorNelson
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Why do people even attempt three way deals? It isn't just 50% harder, it is a level of magnitude harder.

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Old
01-23-2011, 08:15 AM
  #30
trobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newoilsburnsclean View Post
Simply dumb
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
This is an understatement.
LOL. If anyone took my proposal seriously, you need to give up watching hockey and switch over to watching Table tennis.

The initial trade proposal in this thead was so assinine that I thought I would join in.

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Old
01-23-2011, 08:25 AM
  #31
YZ77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukus View Post
So Ottawa gives up:

- LW Milan Michalek (4.333 cap hit)
- D Sergei Gonchar (5.5 cap hit)
- C Mike Fisher (4.2 cap hit)
- Ottawa's 1st rd pick (currently 4th overall)

For:
- C Tyler Seguin (3.55 cap hit)
- C Dominic Moore (1.1 cap hit)

Moore brings absolutely nothing to Ottawa. Clearly this is a huge overpayment for Seguin. I wouldn't be afraid to package Ottawa's 1st along with one of the aforementioned player (or one not listed) as long as it returns a young elite forward prospect similar to Seguin. Afterall, a team always hopes their 1st rounder will turn out to be a Seguin. So what if the acquisition was announced through a trade instead of at the podium on draft day.
By this summary, OP's post is mental. It's absurd to trade a lottery pick, which is pretty much guaranteed this year. I'd also like to see the Sens keep Michalek for the duration of his contract.

Moore is of no use to Ottawa, and Seguin, I can't imagine the Bruins letting him go. Savard is pretty much toast and Seguin is a great option behind Krejci and Bergeron.

If Ottawa could get rid of Gonchar, I'd be quite pleased.

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Old
01-23-2011, 08:30 AM
  #32
tony d
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A lot of out-there proposals here. I think that a rebuild, if we do it, would see us trade Chris Phillips, Alexei Kovalev and Sergei Gonchar and possibly Mike Fisher, here's how I see it going:

To San Jose:

Mike Fisher
Chris Phillips

To Ottawa:

San Jose's 1st 2011
Devin Setoguchi

To N.Y. Rangers:

Sergei Gonchar
Alexei Kovalev

To Ottawa:

Brandon Dubinsky
New York's 1st Round Pick 2011

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Old
01-23-2011, 08:46 AM
  #33
danishh
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trade phillips for whatever anyone offers (2nd round pick/prospect?)
"" kovalev (3rd/prospect?)
"" ruutu (3rd/4th/prospect?)
"" leclaire (nothing/nothing)
"" shannon (4th/prospect)
"" kuba (3rd/prospect)

add the top UFA goalie available. Give them whatever the **** they want.

if phillips wants to come back on july 1st at a reasonable rate (~2.5ish), let him. Whatever term he wants.

target to sign at least one of the secondary scoring forward UFAs. (leino/upshall/flash/zherdev/laich).



bingo, foundation reset. Retool started, without giving up significant core pieces like fisher, alfie, spezza. Giving up those types of guys sets us up for a 3-4 year rebuild. Ottawa will not accept that. This isnt toronto/montreal. There are not enough diehards here to support the team if we suck. We saw this in the 90's, we're starting to see it now. Melnyk will not accept a long term rebuild, so i dont know why you guys would even suggest it.

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Old
01-23-2011, 08:47 AM
  #34
Asquaredx2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
To N.Y. Rangers:

Sergei Gonchar
Alexei Kovalev

To Ottawa:

Brandon Dubinsky
New York's 1st Round Pick 2011
Um....yeah. Don't let any NYR fans see that proposal.

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Old
01-23-2011, 09:50 AM
  #35
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
trade phillips for whatever anyone offers (2nd round pick/prospect?)
"" kovalev (3rd/prospect?)
"" ruutu (3rd/4th/prospect?)
"" leclaire (nothing/nothing)
"" shannon (4th/prospect)
"" kuba (3rd/prospect)

add the top UFA goalie available. Give them whatever the **** they want.

if phillips wants to come back on july 1st at a reasonable rate (~2.5ish), let him. Whatever term he wants.

target to sign at least one of the secondary scoring forward UFAs. (leino/upshall/flash/zherdev/laich).



bingo, foundation reset. Retool started, without giving up significant core pieces like fisher, alfie, spezza. Giving up those types of guys sets us up for a 3-4 year rebuild. Ottawa will not accept that. This isnt toronto/montreal. There are not enough diehards here to support the team if we suck. We saw this in the 90's, we're starting to see it now. Melnyk will not accept a long term rebuild, so i dont know why you guys would even suggest it.
This one.

Though I have a few comments and tweaks.

1) 2009 draftees: Cowen, Rundblad, Lehner and Silfverberg represent a big part of our future and their ELC's start next season. Watching recent Cup winners extract excellent cap value out of their top prospects to build teams worth more than their cap hit is how they won. Cowen, Rundblad and Lehner will make a combined $3.7M for each of the next 3 seasons (provided that we stop calling Lehner up). If we can extract great cap value out of those players, Silfverberg and Mr. 2011 Lottery pick in 2 or 3 seasons... plus have the rest of the team be worth approximately 100% of their cap hit, we could potentially line up a contender for then. Obviously that's greatly dependent on the kids fulfilling their promise and the GM being able to make at least solid signings. But it's a plan that's way better than waiting for these kids to start earning fair value, because the second the team is actually worth their cap hits... it will probably never be good enough to win.

- Phillips, don't really require the draft pick or even $1M in cap space as opposed to having Phillips himself. I'd rather just sign him now for $3.5M.

- Goalie... sorely needed and long overdue. No more cheap, unproven starters. Bryzgalov or Vokoun (maybe Anderson too), nothing else will do.

- Secondary scorers... I wouldn't want to be tied up with any of those guys long term. I'd wait for the guys who are having trouble signing for depth like your Lee Stempniak's of the world for 1 year. Hemsky, Doan and Sharp make better sense for us for 2012 than any of the top tier this season and the secondary scorers available will be comparable just in case we don't get them. Either way, we wouldn't be losing anything since there would be little chance of contending next season.

Does this mean we could wait for the #1 goalie too? ... **** No! 2012 is Pekka Rinne and nothing else. We'd wind up with Chris Mason starting.

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Old
01-23-2011, 10:01 AM
  #36
YZ77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
A lot of out-there proposals here. I think that a rebuild, if we do it, would see us trade Chris Phillips, Alexei Kovalev and Sergei Gonchar and possibly Mike Fisher, here's how I see it going:

To San Jose:

Mike Fisher
Chris Phillips

To Ottawa:

San Jose's 1st 2011
Devin Setoguchi

To N.Y. Rangers:

Sergei Gonchar
Alexei Kovalev

To Ottawa:

Brandon Dubinsky
New York's 1st Round Pick 2011
In my (our) dreams this would happen. And, in my (our) dreams it would be amazing.

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Old
01-23-2011, 10:35 AM
  #37
mkearney913
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Let's look at this realistically...

Unmovable:
Jason Spezza: heavy contract and our key offensive piece.
Mike Fisher: no movement clause, wants to be a Senator.
Daniel Alfredsson: will stick out the rebuild and retire a Senator.
Erik Karlsson: cornerstone on defense at this point...which is saying something.
Chris Kelly: as long as Murray's around, he'll be a Senator.
Nick Foligno: top 9 forward that will role-play for years to come and I doubt will be touched.
Our prospects and 2011 picks (Lehner, Rundblad, Cowen, Butler, Wick)

On the Fence
Sergei Gonchar: 2 years left on an awful contract, but he's valuable to a contender. Don't see the Sens getting the return they want.
Milan Michalek: currently a building block, but if we get a good pick/prospect/forward in exchange, he's expendable.
Chris Neil: Bad contract to move for the player he is, but if he can be traded, I think he will be.
Patrick Wiercoch: Yes, a prospect, but we have an abundance of offensive defensemen in the system. He almost made the team this year and could possibly land us a top 6 forward/pick/prospect.

The Trade Block:
Filip Kuba: Arguably our most tradeable asset: two-way defenseman in the last year of his contract that can put up points and score a little. Great for a contender.
Chris Phillips: So much respect for him, but he deserves a shot at a Cup. Not the stalwart on defense he used to be, but a veteran presence and incredibly smart in his own end.
Alex Kovalev: It'd be a tough sell for any team to pick The Enigma up, but even for less than his offensive value, I think he'll be moved.
Chris Campoli: Young, everyday offensive defenseman. Liability on defense a little, but teams in the hunt would value him.
Jarkko Ruutu: The closest thing to a plus player we have right now. Brilliant bottom-6 forward: defensively-sound agitator with a little scoring touch.
Matt Carkner: big, gritty and, for my money, underrated. We'll get a mid-level pick for him.
Pascal Leclaire: if he's healthy in time, we'll trade him. (Relatively) young goaltender that could still be a viable option to a team with goalie issues.
Jesse Winchester: don't think he'll be moved, but he's a right-handed centre that's good on the dot.

The rest (Regin, O'Brien, Smith, Hale, Shannon, Lee, Elliot) I don't see being trade fodder. Many will fill roster gaps, be in the AHL or simply won't be moved at all.


Here are some trades I could see happening...

1)
To San Jose
Chris Phillips
pick.

To Ottawa
Derek Joslin
2nd 2011
Goaltending prospect (Sateri, Sexsmith?)

2)
To Boston:
Chris Phillips
pick.

To Ottawa:
Zach Hamill
Matt Bartkowski

3)
To Anaheim:
Filip Kuba

To Ottawa:
2nd 2011

4)
To NYR
Alex Kovalev

To Ottawa
Evgeni Grachev

5)
To Minnesota
Alex Kovalev

To Ottawa
Antti Miettinen, Justin Falk

6)
To Tampa Bay:
Jarkko Ruuto, Chris Campoli

To Ottawa:
Brock Beukeboom, 3rd 2011


Thoughts? How far off?

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Old
01-23-2011, 10:48 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkearney913 View Post
Let's look at this realistically...

Unmovable:
Jason Spezza: heavy contract and our key offensive piece.
Mike Fisher: no movement clause, wants to be a Senator.
Daniel Alfredsson: will stick out the rebuild and retire a Senator.
Erik Karlsson: cornerstone on defense at this point...which is saying something.
Chris Kelly: as long as Murray's around, he'll be a Senator.
Nick Foligno: top 9 forward that will role-play for years to come and I doubt will be touched.
Our prospects and 2011 picks (Lehner, Rundblad, Cowen, Butler, Wick)

On the Fence
Sergei Gonchar: 2 years left on an awful contract, but he's valuable to a contender. Don't see the Sens getting the return they want.
Milan Michalek: currently a building block, but if we get a good pick/prospect/forward in exchange, he's expendable.
Chris Neil: Bad contract to move for the player he is, but if he can be traded, I think he will be.
Patrick Wiercoch: Yes, a prospect, but we have an abundance of offensive defensemen in the system. He almost made the team this year and could possibly land us a top 6 forward/pick/prospect.

The Trade Block:
Filip Kuba: Arguably our most tradeable asset: two-way defenseman in the last year of his contract that can put up points and score a little. Great for a contender.
Chris Phillips: So much respect for him, but he deserves a shot at a Cup. Not the stalwart on defense he used to be, but a veteran presence and incredibly smart in his own end.
Alex Kovalev: It'd be a tough sell for any team to pick The Enigma up, but even for less than his offensive value, I think he'll be moved.
Chris Campoli: Young, everyday offensive defenseman. Liability on defense a little, but teams in the hunt would value him.
Jarkko Ruutu: The closest thing to a plus player we have right now. Brilliant bottom-6 forward: defensively-sound agitator with a little scoring touch.
Matt Carkner: big, gritty and, for my money, underrated. We'll get a mid-level pick for him.
Pascal Leclaire: if he's healthy in time, we'll trade him. (Relatively) young goaltender that could still be a viable option to a team with goalie issues.
Jesse Winchester: don't think he'll be moved, but he's a right-handed centre that's good on the dot.

The rest (Regin, O'Brien, Smith, Hale, Shannon, Lee, Elliot) I don't see being trade fodder. Many will fill roster gaps, be in the AHL or simply won't be moved at all.


Here are some trades I could see happening...

1)
To San Jose
Chris Phillips
pick.

To Ottawa
Derek Joslin
2nd 2011
Goaltending prospect (Sateri, Sexsmith?)

2)
To Boston:
Chris Phillips
pick.

To Ottawa:
Zach Hamill
Matt Bartkowski

3)
To Anaheim:
Filip Kuba

To Ottawa:
2nd 2011

4)
To NYR
Alex Kovalev

To Ottawa
Evgeni Grachev

5)
To Minnesota
Alex Kovalev

To Ottawa
Antti Miettinen, Justin Falk

6)
To Tampa Bay:
Jarkko Ruuto, Chris Campoli

To Ottawa:
Brock Beukeboom, 3rd 2011


Thoughts? How far off?
Why would Ottawa want to trade a legit heavyweight who can play 16-18 mins a night on you bottom 2 pairings at least, and who makes like 600K???

To me a guy like that has more value than even the 31st pick in the draft who is most likely a project prospect. You will always need some one who can PLAY and PROTECT the young star players. Otherwise you go back to the 2 mins on ice per heavy's who can't play against some teams and are generally useless.

Ottawa might suck this year, but at least guys like Karlsson are not being abused out there due to Carkner who plays every game and significant minutes on top of that. On top of that the guy is playing in his home town and popular with the fans.

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Old
01-23-2011, 11:46 AM
  #39
Lord Ahriman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
The OP seems more like a Boston fan to me. Sure, they give up Seguin, but they get a good young power forward in Michalek, and end up with FOUR 1st rounders in this draft (BOS, TOR, OTT, TB)... TWO of which are lottery picks currently.

So, a Bruin fan would create a thread with ideas to rebuild a divisional rival, of course, makes a lot of sense...

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Old
01-23-2011, 11:50 AM
  #40
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Never trade your picks, if picks are presented you want them to come to you. Don't do what Buffalo did where they turned down 4, count them 4 first round picks from the Edmonton Oilers. They took Vanek over Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, 2012 1st

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