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01-31-2011, 04:14 PM
  #251
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
I don't really know if any player at NHL level can be considered "light years" more skilled than another NHL player. I guess it depends on your definition of "light years".

But people on this board quckly turned this around to say Zherdev can't be even mentioned in the same sentence with Briere (or something like this). Which I found equally silly, especially since Briere hasn't shown anything outstanding till the age of 29.
We have Jody Shelley on this team.

Briere had a 30 goal season when he was 24. People need to slow down on this whole he didn't show anything until he got to Buffalo thing. In fact he had 60, 58, and 65 point seasons before he really blew up when he was 28 (58 pts in 48 games, the highest PPG year of his career). He simply got hurt that year with a sports hernia.

Briere's offensive skill was never in question, or the problem with his game.

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01-31-2011, 04:38 PM
  #252
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I think the Flyers would be silly to get rid of Z esp on his play the last 2 weeks before the break.

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01-31-2011, 04:42 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
I think the Flyers would be silly to get rid of Z esp on his play the last 2 weeks before the break.


Agreed.

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01-31-2011, 04:51 PM
  #254
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Agreed.
He is getting the Lavi stuff - if he can keep it up, they may be able to sign him again for cheap too. Based on his production which isn't great, but can incline.

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01-31-2011, 04:57 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
He is getting the Lavi stuff - if he can keep it up, they may be able to sign him again for cheap too. Based on his production which isn't great, but can incline.


Flyers play high octane hockey and Z has to keep his feet moving and get pucks deep. I've really not seen a lack of effort from him, just some headscratching bad decisions with the puck in the neutral zone and inside opposing blue lines. Highly doubt he resigns here but I'd like to have him here for a run at the Cup.

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01-31-2011, 06:34 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Briere had a 30 goal season when he was 24. People need to slow down on this whole he didn't show anything until he got to Buffalo thing. In fact he had 60, 58, and 65 point seasons before he really blew up
So what? You can say pretty much the same about Zherdev. He had 27 goals in 73 games at the age of 21. He also had a 61 point season with CBJ and a 58 point season in NY. They both were mostly minus players... Very similar stats, arn't they?

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01-31-2011, 07:50 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
So what? You can say pretty much the same about Zherdev. He had 27 goals in 73 games at the age of 21. He also had a 61 point season with CBJ and a 58 point season in NY. They both were mostly minus players... Very similar stats, arn't they?
So then why have their careers diverged so far apart to the point where Briere leads a team in goals while Zherdev has struggled to stay in the lineup? No two players are the same, not really sure why this discussion ever arose.

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01-31-2011, 08:25 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
So what? You can say pretty much the same about Zherdev. He had 27 goals in 73 games at the age of 21. He also had a 61 point season with CBJ and a 58 point season in NY. They both were mostly minus players... Very similar stats, arn't they?
So you stating that he didn't really break out until he was 29 is flat out wrong. That's "so what."

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01-31-2011, 08:28 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
So then why have their careers diverged so far apart to the point where Briere leads a team in goals while Zherdev has struggled to stay in the lineup?
Nothing has diverged.

Briere is 33. He had never achieved anything Zherdev hasn't 'till the age of 29.

Zherdev is 26. You have no way of knowing where he will be in 3 years or even in 3 months.

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01-31-2011, 08:32 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
Nothing has diverged.

Briere is 33. He had never achieved anything Zherdev hasn't 'till the age of 29.

Zherdev is 26. You have no way of knowing where he will be in 3 years or even in 3 months.
This is BS and I just proved it to you. Stop being a Zherdev fanboy.

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01-31-2011, 08:35 PM
  #261
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When Briere was 24 he posted a higher PPG than Zherdev ever has in his career.

Since that time, Briere has posted 6 seasons better than Zherdev ever has in his career.

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01-31-2011, 09:47 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
When Briere was 24 he posted a higher PPG than Zherdev ever has in his career
Are you kidding me? When Briere was 24 he posted 2 f-cking points more than Zherdev at the same age, and one less point than Zherdev had at 23. Yes, in four less games. That's a f-king major difference. Come on, what's your problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Since that time, Briere has posted 6 seasons better than Zherdev ever has in his career.
Not before he turned 27 when he beat Zherdev by whooping 4 points. Next season he did break up, at the age of 28.

Zherdev is 26.

So either you have to admit that Briere didn't achieve anything major until he turned 28, or you have to admit that, at 26, Zherdev is quite an accomplished player.

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01-31-2011, 09:50 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This is BS and I just proved it to you. Stop being a Zherdev fanboy.
You proved nothing. Besides we already established on the other thread that I am not a Zherdev's fanboy. I am his granddaughter.

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01-31-2011, 09:53 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So you stating that he didn't really break out until he was 29 is flat out wrong. That's "so what."
Ok, it's 28, I give you that. I missed his good half a season, sorry.

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01-31-2011, 10:03 PM
  #265
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Im not bias towards either of these two players I like them both for certain things, but comparing zherdev to briere is simply absurd. Briere, In his 5 trips to the playoffs he has been a point per game player going to the conference finals twice with 2 teams and a stanley cup final once. If we won the cup last year briere was the easy pick for conn smythe posting 30 points in 23 games, this is what easily seperates the two. Danny is one of our most clutch players and always seems to score huge goals, he actually might be the best playoff performing forward league-wide in the past few years...

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01-31-2011, 10:16 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
Im not bias towards either of these two players I like them both for certain things, but comparing zherdev to briere is simply absurd. Briere, In his 5 trips to the playoffs he has been a point per game player going to the conference finals twice with 2 teams and a stanley cup final once. If we won the cup last year briere was the easy pick for conn smythe posting 30 points in 23 games, this is what easily seperates the two. Danny is one of our most clutch players and always seems to score huge goals, he actually might be the best playoff performing forward league-wide in the past few years...
If you not bias, you have to realize that nobody is comparing them as players. What's being compared is 1st their skillset, and 2nd there performance at the similar age.

Briere had 3 points in 6 NHL playoff games untill the age of 28. Better than Zherdev, but nothing major to scream about it.

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Old
01-31-2011, 10:33 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
If you not bias, you have to realize that nobody is comparing them as players. What's being compared is 1st their skillset, and 2nd there performance at the similar age.

Briere had 3 points in 6 NHL playoff games untill the age of 28. Better than Zherdev, but nothing major to scream about it.
Their skillsets are similar, but Zherdev is severely lacking in the playmaking aspect from what I've seen this year, and frankly his assist total is proof at this point. And no one was comparing their peformance at similar ages until you did. I don't really care what Zherdev is doing at age 33, the comparison of their skills right now break down in a lopsided fashion.

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01-31-2011, 11:24 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
I don't really care what Zherdev is doing at age 33
You might care what he is doing at the age of 26 and a half, four months from now. I suggest we postpone this conversation until then.

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01-31-2011, 11:31 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
Their skillsets are similar, but Zherdev is severely lacking in the playmaking aspect from what I've seen this year, and frankly his assist total is proof at this point
His assist total is an anomality that shows he had been struggeling to find chemistry with his linemates up until recently.

His playmayking abilities had never been questioned before, and were always considered his primary strength (above goal scoring anyway). You are just too fast to neglect some aspects of a player history while always exaggerate the others.

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02-01-2011, 12:59 AM
  #270
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Zherdev has been playing good lately. He has always been one of my favorite players though. So I may be a bit biased. I just hope we can somehow sign him again next season if he continues his play, but I am not getting my hopes up as that seems almost impossible. Zherdev is a player that can helps this team in the long run.

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02-01-2011, 02:21 AM
  #271
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Hey vera. You make a lot of good points. Reading over some other threads, I see this fellow Jester always has a go at you. Now, regarding Briere versus Zherdev. I made the point, purely on skills, like puck handling, especially in tight, and skating, I feel Zherdev is better than Briere. In fact, I believe his is probably the most skilled Flyer on the roster. In fact, the players themselves have said so. Does that make him the most valuable player on this team? Obviously no. (He hasn't got the playing time, and it has taken time for him to gel with the team. Also, the coach appears to be apply a different standard to him, given his pass reputation as something of a slacker.) And statistically, there is no way to back that up. And based on stats, the case can be made that Briere is a more successful player. I don't doubt that, nor woudl I argue it. This whole debate began with the question of whether Zherdev deserved any time on the power play. I argued, given his superior offensive skills, that yes, he should be rotated in a bit. Nothing shocking there. But it seems like some, especially Jester, just can't stomach that idea, and find fault with nearly every aspect of Zherdev's game. I think there is the cultural element at play here as well. Russians, Slovaks, Czechs are taught the game differently than players in North American. Skating, passing seemed to be stressed more. With a larger rink, the Russians circle with and without the puck, looking for openings. In Canada, the rinks are smaller, therefore not as much skating room. You get the puck, you get rid of the puck. For Europeans, the dump-and-chase tactic is something a bit foreign. You won't find many North American players with the skill set of a Malkin, Ovechkin, etc. I'm not arguing they are the best players. They've had to adapt to what is still basically North American hockey. That is, more physical play on the boards, more dumping of the puck, more fighting, more intimidation. Ovechkin seems to be a new breed of Russian player, combining skill with aggression. This has won him many admirers in the NHL where fans don't seem to put a premium on 'fancy' skating and dippsy doodling with the puck, but rather the hits, and aggression, which the league sells in many of its promo videos.

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Old
02-01-2011, 05:43 AM
  #272
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Question: Who ****ing cares about raw skill if it's not used to its fullest potential?

Answer: Fanboys who want to win a pointless argument on the internet, that's who.

There isn't a GM, coach, or player in the NHL who would choose Zherdev over Briere. So who ****ing cares who has more raw skill?

It's like trying to convince me Rob Schremp is more skilled than Jeff Carter. So what if the guy can dangle? I want to win games.

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02-01-2011, 06:58 AM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Question: Who ****ing cares about raw skill if it's not used to its fullest potential?

Answer: Fanboys who want to win a pointless argument on the internet, that's who.

There isn't a GM, coach, or player in the NHL who would choose Zherdev over Briere. So who ****ing cares who has more raw skill?

It's like trying to convince me Rob Schremp is more skilled than Jeff Carter. So what if the guy can dangle? I want to win games.
But. . . But . . . Carter only scores in blowouts and sucks defensively

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02-01-2011, 07:12 AM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
His assist total is an anomality that shows he had been struggeling to find chemistry with his linemates up until recently.
Except his linemates on any given night are still scoring. I know he's historically a playmaker, and I know his assist totals have been even higher than his goal totals in the past, but if you were to watch some of his play this year rather than just skimming his goal highlights, you'd see that he's struggled to develop any chemistry because he's turned into a puck hog who thinks he can dangles through 4 defenders. Again, he's been trying to change it over the past couple weeks and I would also love to see him improve over the rest of the season, but as it stands now there's no reason for him to get regular PP time unless those strides at even strength continue.

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02-01-2011, 07:57 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
There isn't a GM, coach, or player in the NHL who would choose Zherdev over Briere.
Nonsence.

Any GM who is not able to afford Briere's cap hit will choose Zherdev.

Also anybody who thinks a couple of years ahead will choose Zherdev over Briere.

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