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Senators decide to rebuild

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Old
01-23-2011, 08:12 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Yeah but Spezza is better than all of them, Michalek is better than all but Kessel, Butler is doing the same in the AHL, Lehner is 3 years younger than Reimer and a great prospect, We have 4 top end defensive prospects as opposed to one. If you think Macarthur, Grabo, Kessel, and Kulemin making up 2/3rds of your top 6 will get you far... well, you're wrong. Neither teams future looks great, but the Sens have more top of the line prospects, not to mention a top 5 pick who will be better than any prospect either team has.
Spezza Spezza Spezza, he's 27 years old of course he's better then most of our young core who are near surpassing hm soon enough.

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01-23-2011, 08:24 PM
  #152
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Kovalev to Montreal for Travis Moen
no no no and no...

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01-23-2011, 09:22 PM
  #153
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I love that a thread about the Ottawa Senators rebuild has turned into a discussion about the Toronto Maple leafs. I guess that is the fate of any thread on HF now. Sigh.

Anyways, this is great news as a rebuild really is needed. A top 5 pick this year will be great in speeding up the process. Ottawa's future on the blue line is bright but we desperately need more young skill up front. A guy like RNH or Gabe Landeskog will be fantastic.

Ottawa has some nice pieces going forward with Spezza, Karlsson and a top 5 pick and others like Michalek, Foligno and Regin to provide secondary scoring over the years. Rundblad and Cowen might join the likes of Karlsson and Spez as core players down the road.

Goaltending and young scorers are the biggest need (aside from coaching). I don't expect much in return at the deadline this year, just shed some salary for a few lower round picks and maybe a few reclamation projects.

Alfie likely isn't going anywhere and I think Phillips will just be re-signed to help mentor Cowen, Karlsson, and Rundblad.

Gonchar will be too hard to move.

I think people underestimate how attractive a guy like Kovalev will be at the deadline for some playoff teams. He won't get a first but I could see a 3rd + a B level prospect.

Ruutu will be traded.

Who knows what will happen with Leclaire and his injury issues.

I'd like to see Fisher traded but I doubt he will be unfortunately. His heart is somewhere else and his "give a **** factor" is LOW. He's a good player but he's 30 and not needed on a rebuilding team. He's likely one of the more attractive tradeable assets on the team.

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01-23-2011, 09:34 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
I love that a thread about the Ottawa Senators rebuild has turned into a discussion about the Toronto Maple leafs. I guess that is the fate of any thread on HF now. Sigh.

Anyways, this is great news as a rebuild really is needed. A top 5 pick this year will be great in speeding up the process. Ottawa's future on the blue line is bright but we desperately need more young skill up front. A guy like RNH or Gabe Landeskog will be fantastic.

Ottawa has some nice pieces going forward with Spezza, Karlsson and a top 5 pick and others like Michalek, Foligno and Regin to provide secondary scoring over the years. Rundblad and Cowen might join the likes of Karlsson and Spez as core players down the road.

Goaltending and young scorers are the biggest need (aside from coaching). I don't expect much in return at the deadline this year, just shed some salary for a few lower round picks and maybe a few reclamation projects.

Alfie likely isn't going anywhere and I think Phillips will just be re-signed to help mentor Cowen, Karlsson, and Rundblad.

Gonchar will be too hard to move.

I think people underestimate how attractive a guy like Kovalev will be at the deadline for some playoff teams. He won't get a first but I could see a 3rd + a B level prospect.

Ruutu will be traded.

Who knows what will happen with Leclaire and his injury issues.

I'd like to see Fisher traded but I doubt he will be unfortunately. His heart is somewhere else and his "give a **** factor" is LOW. He's a good player but he's 30 and not needed on a rebuilding team. He's likely one of the more attractive tradeable assets on the team.
I agree that he will be attractive to some teams, but Murray will just be happy to get him off the books so I don't see a big return for him.

He will be traded not to bring in prospect(s), moreso just to save Melynk some money

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01-23-2011, 09:40 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
I love that a thread about the Ottawa Senators rebuild has turned into a discussion about the Toronto Maple leafs. I guess that is the fate of any thread on HF now. Sigh.

Anyways, this is great news as a rebuild really is needed. A top 5 pick this year will be great in speeding up the process. Ottawa's future on the blue line is bright but we desperately need more young skill up front. A guy like RNH or Gabe Landeskog will be fantastic.

Ottawa has some nice pieces going forward with Spezza, Karlsson and a top 5 pick and others like Michalek, Foligno and Regin to provide secondary scoring over the years. Rundblad and Cowen might join the likes of Karlsson and Spez as core players down the road.

Goaltending and young scorers are the biggest need (aside from coaching). I don't expect much in return at the deadline this year, just shed some salary for a few lower round picks and maybe a few reclamation projects.

Alfie likely isn't going anywhere and I think Phillips will just be re-signed to help mentor Cowen, Karlsson, and Rundblad.

Gonchar will be too hard to move.

I think people underestimate how attractive a guy like Kovalev will be at the deadline for some playoff teams. He won't get a first but I could see a 3rd + a B level prospect.

Ruutu will be traded.

Who knows what will happen with Leclaire and his injury issues.

I'd like to see Fisher traded but I doubt he will be unfortunately. His heart is somewhere else and his "give a **** factor" is LOW. He's a good player but he's 30 and not needed on a rebuilding team. He's likely one of the more attractive tradeable assets on the team.
When teams rebuild they usually dont hold on to vetrans that have good trade value dont think a rebuild invovles moving 1 pest in Ruutu

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01-23-2011, 10:12 PM
  #156
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leafs are one of the youngest teams in the league. schenn , kardi , d'amigo , reimer , aulie , kessel , phaneuf , rynnas , versteeg , kulemin , grabovski , macarthur all under 25. i would say the leafs are ahead of the sens right now. no we don't have a 1st this year ** for now} but the sens are not ahead of the leafs right now.
Wow we could call up our ahl team and every prospect we have going and look like that too .being young is one thing but being competitive is another, we dont rush prospects we sign crappy fa to short term deals to tank

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01-23-2011, 10:22 PM
  #157
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Makes sense, it is only logical.
Phillips, Ruutu and Kovalev shall garner some interest as rentals.
They can stock pile a few draft picks like that.
Some guys will be hard to move just due to their contracts: Kuba, Gonchar, Fisher.

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01-23-2011, 10:38 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by newoilsburnsclean View Post
When teams rebuild they usually dont hold on to vetrans that have good trade value dont think a rebuild invovles moving 1 pest in Ruutu
Its more goign to be guys just leaving via free agency than trades. Kovy, Leclaire, Shannon and others are UFAs after this season and will be gone one way or another. Kuba might be traded, otherwise he'll be bought out in the offseason imo. That's going ro free up A LOT of cash and roster spots.

Alfie will get to make his own decision so he COULD leave but I think the odds are slim. We won't be looking to move him for a kings randsom but rather give him the best chance to win.

Phillips has a NMC but is a very attractive piece to any contender. He may be traded. There's a better chance than Alfie, but he does have that NMC. There's also rumours that he's had some family issues this year so maybe he doesn't feel like leaving the city at this time in his life. He might be traded then just re-sign here in the summer to be with his family again. A deep playoff run would help his value on July 1st.

Fisher has a NMC and is building a massive home here in Kanata. So, its hard to say whether he'll leave as well. I think if a team in a Southern market were interested, his wife might be able to convinve him to move on. It would be best for both the team and Fisher.

Chirs Kelly is a player who I could see being traded (even though I really like him as a player). He's a great 3rd line center who contributes offensively and will be valuable to any contender and is still signed. He can be replaced internally. His value is likely at an all time high with his strong season.

Neil could be traded but the value would have to be great as he does his job better than anyone in the NHL. Ditto for Carkner. Having them around to watch the young gun's backs will be invaluable.

Like I said, Gonchar will be too hard to move, BUT maybe some team will take the risk. He's still a fantastic PPQB and has been victim of Filip Kuba for awhile now so it hurts his value. Maybe there's a contract out there that makes more sense for the Sens to eat. Flip Gonch for Drury? Commodore+? Some of NJ's garbage (Rolston) and a prospect?

A rebuild doesn't mean Ottawa has to ditch ALL of their vets. Having a veteran group of Phillips, Neil, Gonchar and Alfie would be great for the development of the young players who will be brought in.

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01-23-2011, 11:23 PM
  #159
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I don't think Alfredsson should be worth any more than a first. He's 38 and his play is declining. You can see it this year.

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01-23-2011, 11:48 PM
  #160
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Something for Zach Smith ?

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01-23-2011, 11:50 PM
  #161
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Something for Zach Smith ?
No he is a decent young piece and looks good in the nhl for 500k

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01-23-2011, 11:56 PM
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If Rick Dudley calls offering Zach Bogosian, what does Ottawa offer?

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01-23-2011, 11:58 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Its more goign to be guys just leaving via free agency than trades. Kovy, Leclaire, Shannon and others are UFAs after this season and will be gone one way or another. Kuba might be traded, otherwise he'll be bought out in the offseason imo. That's going ro free up A LOT of cash and roster spots.
So we're back to a 're-tooling' then?

That's what it sounds like, I doubt Fisher will be moved as well, so we're keeping Spezza presumably, Alfie, Kelly, Neil, Winchester, Smith, Michalek, Foligno, Gonchar, Campoli, Carkner, Elliott, Karlsson.

I'm not so sure this whole thing is about to be torn down, more the deadwood trimmed.

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01-24-2011, 12:01 AM
  #164
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the Rangers don't want anybody from that team. were perfectly fine with the team we have now who are in the hospital.

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01-24-2011, 12:06 AM
  #165
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Fisher to Anaheim please

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01-24-2011, 12:09 AM
  #166
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Fisher to Anaheim please
For?

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01-24-2011, 12:10 AM
  #167
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Leafs legitimately good young players:
Stars: Kessel
Star Potential: Schenn, Kadri, Phaneuf
Top 6/Top 4 Potential: Versteeg, Kulemin, Grabovksi, Aulie, Gunnarsson
Potential Starter: Reimer

Sens legitimately good young players:
Stars: Spezza, Karlsson
Star Potential: Cowen, Rundblad, Michalek
Top 6/ Top 4 Potential: Regin, Foligno, Silfverberg, Butler, Wiercioch, Campoli
Potential Starter: Lehner

Looks pretty similar to me.
Spezza/Karlsson/Michalek is better than Kessel/Schenn/Phaneuf.
Versteeg/Kulemin/Grabo is better than Regin/Foligno.
Rundblad/Wiercioch/Cowen is better than Kadri/Aulie.
Lehner is better than Reimer.

Sens have a better old core... Who is retained and who will be there in 3-4 years when we're fully rebuilt is yet to be seen.
Its hard to say look better than the Sens right now, especially considering we have Alfredsson, Fisher, Phillips, Gonchar, Kuba, Kovalev, Ruutu, Neil, Kelly, most of whom will get us picks/prospects that are top 4 round and some will get us a lot more. Meanwhile, the Leafs have Kaberle and Giguere as tradable assets, as they are clearly not looking to move Beauchemin and Komisarek has no value. MacArthur could be traded but I think that'd be stupid. Sjostrom can get you guys 4th maybe, but again... I think resigning him is a way better idea for the Leafs.

Leafs have made more progress over the past few years but they had nothing before. Muckler screwed us over in terms of guys who are just NHL ready last year or now, but we still had a good young core when he left us that has left us in a better position than the Leafs are right now.


Imo.
You underrate so many leafs here. First of all, kulemin has better potential than michalek. Michalek had 1 good season due to playing with thornton then tailed off big time (cheechoo syndrome). Also regin and foligno donít even compare to versteeg and grabovski, just look at stats. You left out macarthur who is only 26 and on pace for 70 points. You left out other significant d-prospects like blacker who is 3rd in defenseman scoring in his league.

Overall leafs are in much better position.

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01-24-2011, 12:45 AM
  #168
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For?
What do you think his value is?

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01-24-2011, 12:58 AM
  #169
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What do you think his value is?
A late first round pick. Doesn't have to be specifically that. I'd be very interested in Peter Holland. I'd assume Anaheim would have to send some salary back to Ottawa. Fisher's contract is quite large.

EDIT: forward prospects are a must. So, essentially guys like Etem (doubt Anaheim wants to trade the home town boy), Deschamps, McMillan, Palmieri, Smith-Pelley are who Ottawa would be interested in.

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01-24-2011, 01:07 AM
  #170
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A late first round pick. Doesn't have to be specifically that. I'd be very interested in Peter Holland. I'd assume Anaheim would have to send some salary back to Ottawa. Fisher's contract is quite large.

EDIT: forward prospects are a must. So, essentially guys like Etem (doubt Anaheim wants to trade the home town boy), Deschamps, McMillan, Palmieri, Smith-Pelley are who Ottawa would be interested in.
I'm a little uneasy about offering Holland. Also our center depth isn't so strong. I'd feel more comfortable with giving up something like Bonino and a 2nd. *after edit* Deschamps I can deal with as well.

As for salary, Blake?

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01-24-2011, 01:09 AM
  #171
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Stortini and Brule for Neil

Calgary's 1st, Jokinen, and Nemisz for Spezza

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01-24-2011, 01:19 AM
  #172
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Stortini and Brule for Neil

Calgary's 1st, Jokinen, and Nemisz for Spezza
Calgary does not have the assets to land Spezza. It's not worth it to Ottawa. Why is this so complicated to understand?

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01-24-2011, 01:20 AM
  #173
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What the Sens have to build around

Forwards
Spezza - 27 Yr old PPG center when healthy. He's a very good piece

Top 5 if not top 3 pick - Forward with high potential selected

Tons of 2-4 liners
Michalek, Regin, Folingo, Butler, Smith, Condra, Daugavins (22Pts last 24AHL games), Silfverberg, O'Brien, Petersson, Greening, Wick

All those pieces I think are 25 or younger... Michalek might be 26... all can play roles on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th line depending on the player.

Defense
Karlsson - 20 year old soon to be 50+ point offensive dynamo
Rundblad and Cowen - Both could make team next year
Wiercioch and Gryba probably 2-3 years away
Gonchar - Doubt he can be moved here for two years

Decent foundation

Goalies
Elliott - Backup
Lehner - 2-3 years away... solid prospect

Need a stop gap now and need another high end goalie prospect

Tradable Assets (I'd rather take prospects instead of the pick listed)
Alfredsson - Doubt moved but 1st + prospect if he is
Fisher - 2nd + prospect
Phillips - 2nd + prospect
Campoli - 2nd
Kuba - 3rd
Kelly - 3rd
Neil - 3rd
Ruutu - 4th
Kovalev - 5th

I think those players can be moved for the desired amounts... can take salary back on expiring deals if need be too.

Those picks (prospects) will enhance the farm.

Have 15 million in cap space to buy some talent. The new GM has a foundation to work with if done right... the Sens can quickly rise


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01-24-2011, 01:30 AM
  #174
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What the Sens to build around
Defense
Karlsson - 20 year old soon to be 50+ point offensive dynamo
Rundblad and Cowen - Both could make team next year
Wiercioch and Gryba probably 2-3 years away
Gonchar - Doubt he can be moved here for two years
[I know I abridged your post. Apologies]

No Lee in your plans?

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01-24-2011, 01:34 AM
  #175
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[I know I abridged your post. Apologies]

No Lee in your plans?
Warm body for now if we move out a Phillips... I'm not sold on his long term future but my opinion may change by the end of the season

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