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2011 Trade Deadline Thread (All General Deadline Talk/Proposals/Blog Rumors in here)

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:39 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
No, he's not. The generalization might be generally-accepted, but the context in which he used it was not. It was even mis-used, making it even less right.



*tries to figure out how this has anything to do with it*

That, and I wasn't.
trading a 50-60 pt winger for a young unproven defenseman...nope...nothing like this...

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02-16-2011, 01:51 PM
  #752
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I didn't know Jake has already maxed out his potential, surely a 21 year old winger can't get any better than 50 points, while a 21 year old defender will surely get a lot better. Voracek isn't going to be a 50 point winger much longer, he's got ppg talent and ppg wingers aren't any easier to replace than potential top pairing defenders because if they were we'd have had one already, but yet we never have, and maybe we never will with Jake, but I wouldn't be willing to lose out on that in order to pick up a defender who has Klesla bust potential meaning only maxing out at a 2nd pairing defender who struggles to put up points. I'd be okay losing Filatov for that, but definitely not Voracek, if we trade him it needs to be for more of an established player.

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Old
02-16-2011, 02:43 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Fro View Post
trading a 50-60 pt winger for a young unproven defenseman...nope...nothing like this...
It may help prove the generalization, but not the correctness of its use, which is what I was questioning.

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Old
02-16-2011, 02:44 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
he's got ppg talent and ppg wingers aren't any easier to replace than potential top pairing defenders because if they were we'd have had one already, but yet we never have, and maybe we never will with Jake, but I wouldn't be willing to lose out on that in order to pick up a defender who has Klesla bust potential meaning only maxing out at a 2nd pairing defender who struggles to put up points. I'd be okay losing Filatov for that, but definitely not Voracek, if we trade him it needs to be for more of an established player.
I'm sorry but until he can hit an open net from 5 feet away I don't see how he has PPG potential. I would say Filatov has PPG potential just as much as Jake does.

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02-16-2011, 02:46 PM
  #755
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i'm not advocating that we should only look at trading jake...i'd be more than happy to keep him...just saying arguing potential vs potential...neither are near their max in either side's argument...I'd love to make a filatov + + trade...but his value is really low right now...the one thing of value we have that is arguably expendable...is jake

all that i was saying was what I've stated a couple of times...my belief is that if we traded jake for bogo, we would more easily be able to replace jake thru another trade or FA than to find an "arguably" potential top pair defenseman...something we've NEVER had here...

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Old
02-16-2011, 02:48 PM
  #756
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DSL..fair nuff...perhaps in my own mind but i felt it justified my stance...if it doesn't than i can agree to disagree...

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Old
02-16-2011, 03:34 PM
  #757
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DSL..fair nuff...perhaps in my own mind but i felt it justified my stance...if it doesn't than i can agree to disagree...
No sweat.

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02-16-2011, 04:41 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I didn't know Jake has already maxed out his potential, surely a 21 year old winger can't get any better than 50 points, while a 21 year old defender will surely get a lot better. Voracek isn't going to be a 50 point winger much longer, he's got ppg talent and ppg wingers aren't any easier to replace than potential top pairing defenders because if they were we'd have had one already, but yet we never have, and maybe we never will with Jake, but I wouldn't be willing to lose out on that in order to pick up a defender who has Klesla bust potential meaning only maxing out at a 2nd pairing defender who struggles to put up points. I'd be okay losing Filatov for that, but definitely not Voracek, if we trade him it needs to be for more of an established player.
I'm not as hot to trot about Bogosian as some are, but I take issue with some of this.

You seem to be saying, reading between the lines, that Voracek has more potential than Nash. I don't see on what planet that is true.

Seeing Jake as a point/game player is a quantum leap when he's yet to manage even 20 goals in a single season. Is he going to have 70 assists?

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02-16-2011, 05:06 PM
  #759
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When Jake can grow a pair and put a puck into an empty net while taking a hit for it, I'll believe he has the chance to become a point per game player. He really has no shot...something the staff needs to work on him with...kid can pass like no other though.

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02-16-2011, 05:59 PM
  #760
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The fact that Voracek has not been re-upped by Howson like he has done with a lot of the other younger players is very strange to me.

It could mean lots of things (including nothing), but given Howson's tendency to lock up players who he considers as core players can't help but make me wonder what he thinks about Jake.

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02-16-2011, 06:04 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
The fact that Voracek has not been re-upped by Howson like he has done with a lot of the other younger players is very strange to me.

It could mean lots of things (including nothing), but given Howson's tendency to lock up players who he considers as core players can't help but make me wonder what he thinks about Jake.
My thoughts as well. I've been wondering if Jake burned some bridges while being Commie's sidekick. Just speculation at my point, but it's strange Jake wasn't signed by now. Could be nothing. Don't know.

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Old
02-16-2011, 06:04 PM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
The fact that Voracek has not been re-upped by Howson like he has done with a lot of the other younger players is very strange to me.

It could mean lots of things (including nothing), but given Howson's tendency to lock up players who he considers as core players can't help but make me wonder what he thinks about Jake.
He might be just waiting to see if he can put it together this year. He's not going to let Jake just walk and get nothing for him/sign him.

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Old
02-16-2011, 08:01 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Hmm thats tough to gauge since they most likely would want picks/prospects. I'd probably give them Russell and Pahlsson. To be honest I have no idea what he's valued by the Sabres. They'd take picks and prospects though, give them a 2nd and a guy like Dalton Smith. He'd play top 4 minutes for us today and would be an upgrade over alot of our current d. He'd be great with Clitsome. My idea of adding a solid but not spectacular dman to our core is to make our core have as few possible holes in it. Lets be honest, were not going to convince a #1 dman to come here unless we throw Brian Campbell money at him. I just cant see it happening. If we add to our dman and continue to draft well, we could have a very solid d core soon. I might even trade Klesla straight up for Sekera. I think thats a clear win with Klesla's salary and injury proneness.
Ok, I hear you man. Kind of like the Canucks, they don't have any franchise defensemen's but have a great core after some trades,signings, and developing. I think the last couple Cup winners had a franchise D playing for them(Keith,Gonchar,Lidstrom,Pronger/Niedermayer), even the losers had one(Pronger x2,Gonchar) but I guess the Canes won in 06 without one but with a team effort. Can't remember if the Flames had one in 04 and if the Sens had one in 07. So not having a elite defender is fine but would still be nice to have. Perhaps one day Moore will be the guy.

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Old
02-16-2011, 09:44 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
The fact that Voracek has not been re-upped by Howson like he has done with a lot of the other younger players is very strange to me.

It could mean lots of things (including nothing), but given Howson's tendency to lock up players who he considers as core players can't help but make me wonder what he thinks about Jake.
It could have something to do with the fact that Howson may have prematurely locked up a couple of folks, which many criticized him for, so he was being more pragmatic in his approach with Jake.

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Old
02-16-2011, 09:53 PM
  #765
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David Booth would be nice to have....sure would solidify the top 6...make the 2nd line, pretty nice.

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Old
02-16-2011, 09:58 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I'm not as hot to trot about Bogosian as some are, but I take issue with some of this.

You seem to be saying, reading between the lines, that Voracek has more potential than Nash. I don't see on what planet that is true.

Seeing Jake as a point/game player is a quantum leap when he's yet to manage even 20 goals in a single season. Is he going to have 70 assists?
You don't think with other talent on his line that Nash is a point per game player? But I love how you just made up your own in between the lines argument there, you are awesome at pulling something out of nothing. Maybe you should stop reading between the lines, because you have proven time and time again that you are terrible at it. Fine if you want to say that Voracek isn't a ppg winger and btw 70 + 20 is 90 not 82, then we can say that Voracek will max out at 70-75 points which is also not easy to replace either considering there are only 10 to 15 of those every year.

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Old
02-16-2011, 10:54 PM
  #767
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if what i heard in the arena tonight is true...and brass does have a broken arm...who can we get...weiss??? maybe some other move with florida for a center and a defenseman...apparently not named mccabe since he isn't sounding keen on removing the NMC

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02-16-2011, 11:15 PM
  #768
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if what i heard in the arena tonight is true...and brass does have a broken arm...who can we get...weiss??? maybe some other move with florida for a center and a defenseman...apparently not named mccabe since he isn't sounding keen on removing the NMC
I think we should mostly be sellers anyway, but IF Brassard is out for the year, we should definitely be sellers.

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02-16-2011, 11:53 PM
  #769
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I think we should mostly be sellers anyway, but IF Brassard is out for the year, we should definitely be sellers.
UNLESS D-Mac plays lights-out on the top line and Sestito gets the call to bring the energy back to the 4th. Brassard being out is not the end of the season.

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Old
02-17-2011, 12:07 AM
  #770
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Can not just give up on this year IMO. If he is out for the rest of the season you get someone to fill that spot for this year. This team is playing its butt of and i think they deserve a little help.

Maybe fla, or montreal, or who ever. RJ is on the mend to so help is needed now. But thats just my 2cents.

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Old
02-17-2011, 01:17 AM
  #771
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If Brassard is out for the season, any interest in Jason Arnott from the Devils? He's 36 and makes 4.5Mil(obviously less with the season coming to an end) and is a UFA after this season. As a kid, he was my favourite player so I would love to get him in Columbus. He has playoff experience and some leadership but is past his prime. I would only give up a 3rd round pick but I can see him getting a 2nd rounder from another team.
I just heard he has a NTC so I can't see him choosing Columbus over a contender.

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02-17-2011, 07:06 AM
  #772
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There may be another option.

We could bring up Wilson. When he was sent down it was discussed that it was as much a contractual thing as anything. He certainly hasn't regressed any in the AHL. Vermette moves up between Nash and Jake and Wilson and DMac split time between 2nd & 4th depending on who is rolling at the moment.

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Old
02-17-2011, 07:29 AM
  #773
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Giving up on the season is not an option. Arniel finally has these guys playing tough, competitive hockey and they have to continue to play that way until it becomes habit. Learning from this season by finishing strong is very important for next year in order to avoid the December Drop.

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02-17-2011, 07:39 AM
  #774
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Giving up on the season is not an option. Arniel finally has these guys playing tough, competitive hockey and they have to continue to play that way until it becomes habit. Learning from this season by finishing strong is very important for next year in order to avoid the December Drop.
I agree. Anyone who watched the way they fought adversity, last night, has to feel that there's something positive to be gained from the rest of the season - playoffs or not.

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Old
02-17-2011, 07:43 AM
  #775
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According to Arace, at the game last night:

Quote:
A crowd of 12,442 and scouts from Montreal, Washington, Minnesota, Atlanta, Edmonton, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Chicago and Detroit took it in.
http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/...e.html?sid=101

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