HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

We got shutout! Oh wait, that's the other team? Cool! Kings Win!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-25-2011, 04:00 PM
  #101
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Kopitar is hardly an "elite" center. He is good, he isn't elite.
... Put Kopitar on the Hawks or the Flyers or the Wings and he'd be considered elite for sure. The only thing not elite about Kopitar is the team with which he plays.

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 04:02 PM
  #102
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 17,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Put Kopitar on the Hawks or the Flyers or the Wings and he'd be considered elite for sure. The only thing not elite about Kopitar is the team with which he plays.
If he was "elite" he wouldn't have to change teams in order to be considered elite. I just think we have a slightly different definition of the word elite.

KINGS17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 04:05 PM
  #103
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 17,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel11 View Post
Kopi said he wouldn't mind playing wing, during the interview after the game. Wonder how it'll work out.
Well, whattaya know, lookie there.

KINGS17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 04:13 PM
  #104
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,958
vCash: 500
How many "elite" center are out there anyway? Crosby and who? Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Sedin, Joe Thornton and Ryan Getzlaf. Look how much Malkin has regressed the past two seasons, he hasn't matched his career high numbers. Backstrom is among the best centers in the NHL and even he has took a dip statistically. Same applies to Jason Spezza.

I'd put Kopitar in the same category as Eric Staal. And coincidentally, both centers have 49 points on the season.

Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 04:19 PM
  #105
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 17,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
How many "elite" center are out there anyway? Crosby and who? Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Sedin, Joe Thornton and Ryan Getzlaf. Look how much Malkin has regressed the past two seasons, he hasn't matched his career high numbers. Backstrom is among the best centers in the NHL and even he has took a dip statistically. Same applies to Jason Spezza.

I'd put Kopitar in the same category as Eric Staal. And coincidentally, both centers have 49 points on the season.
I dunno if I put Kopitar in Staal's class just yet, but he is close. I think Kopitar's game would translate to the wing pretty easily if he was asked to make the change.

KINGS17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 04:23 PM
  #106
johnjm22
16,005
 
johnjm22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barstow, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,709
vCash: 500
This team is playing much better defensively. We all like to complain about the offense, but poor defense is what triggered the slump.

johnjm22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 04:28 PM
  #107
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 17,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
This team is playing much better defensively. We all like to complain about the offense, but poor defense is what triggered the slump.
Yep.

KINGS17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 04:58 PM
  #108
TonySCV
Moderator
Push to the 8th Tee
 
TonySCV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
I think much of that is due to all games being broadcast in HD
They were all in HD last season.

TonySCV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 05:06 PM
  #109
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Loki is looking better but his defencive coverage needs to get up to NHL standards. He is a true rookie and it will take time. I liked what I saw but I say the same thing about Moller and believe that he too should be up here right now. Both of them have earned the shot.

Loki made a seriously blown defencive coverage mistake and then went on to score a goal not too much longer so his instinctive play is solid but his unlearning everything he knows to be correct about hockey to play TM's system will take time.

I will say that in my opinion the team has looked like a group that is fighting a common enemy and bonding over it. To me no matter who or what that is makes all the difference. These are a pretty young group of players and if they need a monster to fight in order to unite as a group then go get em.

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 05:16 PM
  #110
Scottkmlps
Moderator
 
Scottkmlps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,925
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I will say that in my opinion the team has looked like a group that is fighting a common enemy and bonding over it. To me no matter who or what that is makes all the difference. These are a pretty young group of players and if they need a monster to fight in order to unite as a group then go get em.
Fighting through the two long losing streaks is gonna be huge for this team in the present and in the future. Especially in the future. Like Lombardi said in the off-season, they are in the transition period of "thinking you can win" and "knowing you can win". It's just a bigger hill to climb to get to that "knowing you can win" mentality. Last season, big things weren't expected, but this season big things are expected, and that's a lot of pressure for such a young team. All good, young teams go through it.

Scottkmlps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 06:31 PM
  #111
Tadite
Registered User
 
Tadite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Country: United States
Posts: 4,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
If he was "elite" he wouldn't have to change teams in order to be considered elite. I just think we have a slightly different definition of the word elite.

When you're the 5th highest scoring center in the whole NHL elite starts to sound about right. If he has a bit of playoff success or the Kings really do turn into a good/great team then all of a sudden he'll get a whole bunch of press/hype.

That's just the way it works.

Tadite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 06:36 PM
  #112
ZJames
Registered User
 
ZJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dont worry about it
Country: United States
Posts: 553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Kopitar is hardly an "elite" center. He is good, he isn't elite.
At this point I wouldnt consider Kopi to be "Elite", but I firmly believe he is one of the best centers in hockey, and that he is on his way to becoming an elite centerman.

ZJames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 06:38 PM
  #113
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 17,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite View Post
When you're the 5th highest scoring center in the whole NHL elite starts to sound about right. If he has a bit of playoff success or the Kings really do turn into a good/great team then all of a sudden he'll get a whole bunch of press/hype.

That's just the way it works.
It's not a press/hype thing to me, and him being the 5th highest scoring center in the NHL doesn't get him to elite status either.

When the Kings win a playoff round, or two, or ten, and Kopitar is one of the main reasons that is happening he can wear the title elite. Until then he is just pretty good, and I still think his game would translate just fine to the wing if Schenn can come in and play well next season and the Kings acquired a guy like Richards.

Probably a pipe dream though.

KINGS17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 06:38 PM
  #114
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,757
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Put Kopitar on the Hawks or the Flyers or the Wings and he'd be considered elite for sure. ...
i disagree... i think he'd be a 90-point center, but numbers don't make someone elite.

now i know people don't like this but, Olli Jokinen went from high 30-goal scoring/ 89-91 point having offensive catalyst on a mediocre team bereft of any real offensive talent to centering one of the greatest goal scorers of the last decade, and went the other way.

wabwat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 07:59 PM
  #115
two out of three*
 
two out of three*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to two out of three* Send a message via AIM to two out of three*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Loki is looking better but his defencive coverage needs to get up to NHL standards. He is a true rookie and it will take time. I liked what I saw but I say the same thing about Moller and believe that he too should be up here right now. Both of them have earned the shot.

Loki made a seriously blown defencive coverage mistake and then went on to score a goal not too much longer so his instinctive play is solid but his unlearning everything he knows to be correct about hockey to play TM's system will take time.

I will say that in my opinion the team has looked like a group that is fighting a common enemy and bonding over it. To me no matter who or what that is makes all the difference. These are a pretty young group of players and if they need a monster to fight in order to unite as a group then go get em.
I wouldn't let one defensive "gaff" let you decide that Loktionov isn't good defensively yet. Surely, he's not done improving but his defensive play is actually one of the main points that he attracted scouts.

He was generally the first one back on the backcheck last night, and it wasn't like he was F3 on the forecheck all the time.

And in regards to Anze Kopitar.. Whats keeping him from truly being an "elite" center is that IMO, 1) he's VERY soft and 2) His stamina is HORRID. What does this guy do in the offseason? Seems like :15 into his shifts he's already "Gassed-itar."

two out of three* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 08:08 PM
  #116
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,213
vCash: 500
Kopitar may take short shifts but I rarely ever see him not moving his feet out there. Nine times out of ten he's the guy carrying it up ice and most of the time, even when he is the headman with the puck, he's the first forward back. I'll take that over a Semin-type floater any day.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 08:18 PM
  #117
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
It wasn't one gaf it was his overall game and I haven't even come close to deciding that Lokti wasn't any good yet in fact, I was saying the opposite. I was saying that he has time and allot to learn in order to both make the shift from center to wing and also to do so in such an erratic system as ours has been of late.

Its like I always say, rookie's need to be allowed to make the mistakes and the time to correct them, that is what Lokti was and will be doing for awhile I imagine. Most true rookies struggle in some way and excel in others, its the way of things.

When it comes to Kopitar I am not wading in at all to the debate regarding his play. I like him for what he does bring and don't want to waste any time judging his ultimate potential until I see him play with a couple of young fast equally talented players for a season.


Last edited by etherialone: 01-25-2011 at 08:56 PM.
etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 08:21 PM
  #118
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,213
vCash: 500
I think all you can reasonably expect from Loki is that he put up some points and not give the puck away. Everything else is gravy at this point.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 08:22 PM
  #119
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Kopi keeps getting a bit better every four or five games or so... he just shows me a little bit more - I think playing around Smyth has helped him a lot. But add some speed and creativity to his wing and the league is going to see something special.

Duc620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 08:27 PM
  #120
two out of three*
 
two out of three*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to two out of three* Send a message via AIM to two out of three*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
It wasn't one gaf it was his overall game and I haven't even come close to deciding that Lokti wasn't any good yet in fact, I was saying the opposite. I was saying that he has time and allot to learn in order to both make the shift from center to wing and also to do so in such an erratic system as ours has been of late.

Its like I always say, rookie's need to be allowed to make the mistakes and the time to correct them, that is what Lokti was and will be doing for awhile I imagine. Most true rookies struggle in some way and excel in others, its the way of things.

When it comes to Kopitar I am wading in at all to the debate regarding his play. I like him for what he does bring and don't want to waste any time judging his ultimate potential until I see him play with a couple of young fast equally talented players for a season.
Okay. And I'm saying that Loktionovs defensive game is pretty superior in comparison to other rookies in the league. Its not a soft spot in his game by any means.

two out of three* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 08:47 PM
  #121
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Your saying that after this one game last night and in comparison to whom specifically? Just curious. If its based on his earlier call up then I would be surprised as I think he played a much more responsible game last night then he did during his first stretch earlier this year. Of course it is still a one game sample but he did look to have better gap control last night and if anything I would regard his mis steps to not only being the fact that he is a rookie but also in that as I had said, he is a natural center who has played a handful of games as a wing and we pulled him up from the A into the NHL and switched his position. It takes time.

That is what i was saying and will still contend until he is a fully realized NHL forward which is likely going to take at least a full season if not a little longer in my opinion but it is only an opinion.

As to comparing him to any other rookies well your gonna have to find a rookie who was a center, played as a center in the AHL the last couple of seasons, spent time injured last season and then was suddenly moved to LW and called up to the NHL and has played a single game since doing so (not including any shifts/time spent during his earlier call up).

Its gotta be a pretty small group of true rookies.

Loktionov has allot to learn, both as a wing *and* as a player in the NHL. He is a rookie. It takes time. That is what I said and I stick to that observation. I expect all rookies to have to develop their overall game as they make their way through their first year in the NHL. I don't think that it is outside the scope of common sense to think that way and I know for certain that I am not alone in believing so.

So if you can site me any reason or example as to why you feel that Loktionov has a superior defencive game compared to other rookies in the league then let me know as I would find it interesting. Also if you can show me where I have said that Loktionov's defence is a soft spot in his game that would be solid too.

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 08:51 PM
  #122
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
It's not a press/hype thing to me, and him being the 5th highest scoring center in the NHL doesn't get him to elite status either.

When the Kings win a playoff round, or two, or ten, and Kopitar is one of the main reasons that is happening he can wear the title elite. Until then he is just pretty good, and I still think his game would translate just fine to the wing if Schenn can come in and play well next season and the Kings acquired a guy like Richards.

Probably a pipe dream though.
So Stamkos isn't elite either right?

People doubting Kopi need to look at the leading scores...of the top16 scorers only Kopi/Staal/Iggy (and Perry but thats cause Getz has fallen off after his injury) are on their without a teammate also there. Then on top of that Kopi has less PP points then almost everyone on the list. Thus a significant portion of his points come 5on5....and indication of how well he controls the play 5on5...and is a +17

KingLB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 10:42 PM
  #123
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
If he was "elite" he wouldn't have to change teams in order to be considered elite. I just think we have a slightly different definition of the word elite.
... Well - he's not Crosby or Ovechkin, or Stamkos.

But. He's every bit as good as Toews, or Richards, or Staal, or anyone in that class. I consider that elite.

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2011, 11:38 PM
  #124
vh2k7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 670
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to vh2k7 Send a message via MSN to vh2k7 Send a message via Skype™ to vh2k7
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Well - he's not Crosby or Ovechkin, or Stamkos.

But. He's every bit as good as Toews, or Richards, or Staal, or anyone in that class. I consider that elite.
Bingo. Didn't realize I'd stir up so much conversation with a throwaway line like that. The point is that he's excellent at both ends of the ice, and you don't move a center to wing to make a lateral move (I think him and Richards are about equals). You let them both center lines because they're both extremely valuable at center, much more so than they would be at wing.

vh2k7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 02:35 AM
  #125
RonSwanson*
Gadfly
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Well - he's not Crosby or Ovechkin, or Stamkos.

But. He's every bit as good as Toews, or Richards, or Staal, or anyone in that class. I consider that elite.
Elite means the top tier. (Crosby, Stamkos, Ovy)

Anything below that is not elite.

RonSwanson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.