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Great timing for U-20 World Cup of type event

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01-10-2011, 06:48 PM
  #1
rushockey
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Great timing for U-20 World Cup of type event

Now with 4 or 5 teams being contenders in the U-20 age category it is a perfect timing to have a World Cup style of event in Canada. America Cup is the name that comes to mind.
Imagine this format - Finland, Sweden, Canada, USA and Russia play round robin of 4 games. Last team is off and top four seeds meet each other in best of three. Top team against the fourth and second against the third. Winners advance to the finals and also play best of 3 games.

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01-10-2011, 07:10 PM
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Danish Pastry
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we just had the world juniors.... why would we need this...

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01-10-2011, 07:18 PM
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Jussi
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Ummm....no.

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01-10-2011, 07:29 PM
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fly4apuckguy
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If it was held in the summer, sure. Not during winter, though. It's bad enough the kids miss a bunch of games already with their club teams for the WJC.

If it is a true best on best, though, and all U20 players are available, it might not be as much fun as you think it will be. I think if nothing else, the Super Series and the 2005 WJC a few years ago showed us that the competition would not be flattering to teams that don't have NHL players to contribute to the cause.

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01-10-2011, 07:45 PM
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Ceux de Montreal
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We lost. Get over it already.

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01-10-2011, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushockey View Post
Now with 4 or 5 teams being contenders in the U-20 age category it is a perfect timing to have a World Cup style of event in Canada. America Cup is the name that comes to mind.
Imagine this format - Finland, Sweden, Canada, USA and Russia play round robin of 4 games. Last team is off and top four seeds meet each other in best of three. Top team against the fourth and second against the third. Winners advance to the finals and also play best of 3 games.
makes no sense3 what so ever...How's that different from annual Worlds? I would be pro-U23 World Cup, but not sure there's room in the international schedule...it is very saturated as is.

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01-10-2011, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
We lost. Get over it already.
"We"? I think judging by the flag the OP is displaying "he" didn't lose.

The only thing dumber than bad threads (this isn't one of them), is people who dismiss threads with pointless, meaningless insults that don't have anything to do with the thread's intention. Just because you read "We lost. Get over it already." on a few other threads, doesn't mean it belongs here. Weak reply, in short.

I think the guy just likes junior hockey, and there is no World Cup of junior hockey. I don't think there should be one, either, to be honest. But at least I am willing to respond without being rude just for the sake of being rude.

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01-10-2011, 10:09 PM
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For those not familiar with the World Cup - it takes place in August- early September, so missing games in junior leagues not an issue. There were talks about this style of tournament between the federations for a while. The major problem with such tournament is this - only one nation can maintain a reliable team every year, in most years you have two teams competing, three at most. This year is unique because Finland and Russia managed to build great teams and that made it five competitive teams. I think this is once in a decade opportunity to have such a depth from five teams and if they decide to hold such tournament ever - this is the year.

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01-10-2011, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
makes no sense3 what so ever...How's that different from annual Worlds? I would be pro-U23 World Cup, but not sure there's room in the international schedule...it is very saturated as is.
U-23 would be interesting, especially in the summer. That's the only time I can think of to really fit something like that into the overall scheme of things.

Maybe every 2 years, otherwise it's no different then a continuation of the World Juniors. Wouldn't be overly opposed to U-23 being the format for the Olympics either if the NHLers can't go.

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01-11-2011, 12:28 AM
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There is absolutely no need for such a tournament. The WJC are pointless enough as it is, and there is no way NHL teams would risk losing their players at such an event. If they're good enough and their season is over, they can play at the Worlds in May. Establishing who has the best 19 year olds in a separate tournament because maybe three or four players (on at most three teams) were missing in January is ridiculous.


Last edited by v-man: 01-11-2011 at 08:53 AM.
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01-11-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushockey View Post
For those not familiar with the World Cup - it takes place in August- early September, so missing games in junior leagues not an issue. There were talks about this style of tournament between the federations for a while. The major problem with such tournament is this - only one nation can maintain a reliable team every year, in most years you have two teams competing, three at most. This year is unique because Finland and Russia managed to build great teams and that made it five competitive teams. I think this is once in a decade opportunity to have such a depth from five teams and if they decide to hold such tournament ever - this is the year.
for those - not familiar with how hockey goes - young players are in rookie camps at about this time...please stop with the nonesense...U20 WJC every winter is MORE than enough.

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01-11-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
for those - not familiar with how hockey goes - young players are in rookie camps at about this time...please stop with the nonesense...U20 WJC every winter is MORE than enough.
Nonsense was to play weak generation Russia against deep Canada and call it Superseries. Playing World Cup format tournament with top 5 teams this year would be absolute thriller. No Norways, Latvias, 10:1 scores, no weak games, purely top teams fighting it out. Fantastic experience for young players.

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01-11-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushockey View Post
Now with 4 or 5 teams being contenders in the U-20 age category it is a perfect timing to have a World Cup style of event in Canada. America Cup is the name that comes to mind.
Imagine this format - Finland, Sweden, Canada, USA and Russia play round robin of 4 games. Last team is off and top four seeds meet each other in best of three. Top team against the fourth and second against the third. Winners advance to the finals and also play best of 3 games.


America cup?

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01-11-2011, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushockey View Post
Nonsense was to play weak generation Russia against deep Canada and call it Superseries. Playing World Cup format tournament with top 5 teams this year would be absolute thriller. No Norways, Latvias, 10:1 scores, no weak games, purely top teams fighting it out. Fantastic experience for young players.
ok, keep dreaming, don't let mom wake you up too early

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01-12-2011, 03:54 PM
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If the Russians have their way and the IIHF agrees you might get close to this. The MHL (Russian Junior league) is proposing a World Club championship that would run in August or early September that would feature the MHL winner, Memorial Cup winner, Swedish junior champion (J20-elit I think it's called), Finnish junior champion, a US representative (widely thought to be USHL champion), Czech junior champion and possibly Slovakia and Germany as well. Whether or not this will be a huge success (or an exciting tournament) remains to be seen.

I just hope that the allow the Memorial Cup champion to use their roster from the previous season. With the way some teams load up with 19 year olds to make a run at the Memorial Cup (see Calgary Hitmen from last year), they are left with little from that team. Thus, the Hitmen went from the WHL champions last year to the worst team in the WHL this year. It would make for an awful tournament if say the Saskatoon Blades win and they lose Brayden Schenn (among others) or if St. Mike's win and they lose Maxim Kitsyn etc. Plus the MHL has an age limit of 21, not 20 so the CHL teams are at a disadvantage possibly agewise already.

The biggest stumbling block would be the NHL parent clubs. Since Brayden Schenn in all likelihood not be in the CHL next year (and if he is I'd consider that a massive failure in his development), would the LA Kings allow him to play in a tournament with a team that he has no connection to for the upcoming season? I could see this turning into the World Basketball Championship, where the NBA clubs said their players could not go and play because their insurance didn't cover games not in a NBA uniform.

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01-12-2011, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushockey View Post
Nonsense was to play weak generation Russia against deep Canada and call it Superseries. Playing World Cup format tournament with top 5 teams this year would be absolute thriller. No Norways, Latvias, 10:1 scores, no weak games, purely top teams fighting it out. Fantastic experience for young players.
You mean the same Latvians that beat Russia last year?

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01-12-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
If the Russians have their way and the IIHF agrees you might get close to this. The MHL (Russian Junior league) is proposing a World Club championship that would run in August or early September that would feature the MHL winner, Memorial Cup winner, Swedish junior champion (J20-elit I think it's called), Finnish junior champion, a US representative (widely thought to be USHL champion), Czech junior champion and possibly Slovakia and Germany as well. Whether or not this will be a huge success (or an exciting tournament) remains to be seen.

I just hope that the allow the Memorial Cup champion to use their roster from the previous season. With the way some teams load up with 19 year olds to make a run at the Memorial Cup (see Calgary Hitmen from last year), they are left with little from that team. Thus, the Hitmen went from the WHL champions last year to the worst team in the WHL this year. It would make for an awful tournament if say the Saskatoon Blades win and they lose Brayden Schenn (among others) or if St. Mike's win and they lose Maxim Kitsyn etc. Plus the MHL has an age limit of 21, not 20 so the CHL teams are at a disadvantage possibly agewise already.

The biggest stumbling block would be the NHL parent clubs. Since Brayden Schenn in all likelihood not be in the CHL next year (and if he is I'd consider that a massive failure in his development), would the LA Kings allow him to play in a tournament with a team that he has no connection to for the upcoming season? I could see this turning into the World Basketball Championship, where the NBA clubs said their players could not go and play because their insurance didn't cover games not in a NBA uniform.
I agree. Why should we accept to be part of a tournament where, like usual, we're disadvantaged more than any other country.

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01-12-2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v-man View Post
You mean the same Latvians that beat Russia last year?
I am not sure which Latvia you are talking about, Latvia I am talking about lost to US and Canada with the total score 1:28.

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01-13-2011, 03:32 PM
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I am not sure which Latvia you are talking about, Latvia I am talking about lost to US and Canada with the total score 1:28.
Yeah that's the Latvia. They beat Russia I believe it was 6-4 in a pre-tournament game a few days before last year's World Juniors started.

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01-13-2011, 05:33 PM
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I like the idea, although can't see how it would fly, logistically.

I'm hoping to see another 8-game Super Series, be it vs. Russia or the US, but having NHL U20s be able to participate as well.

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01-13-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
Yeah that's the Latvia. They beat Russia I believe it was 6-4 in a pre-tournament game a few days before last year's World Juniors started.
Oh that Latvia... It probably would have destroyed Canada, so definitely bring that team as well.

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01-31-2011, 04:43 PM
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You mean the same Latvians that beat Russia last year?
do you realize that it happend in exhibition game?

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02-01-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushockey View Post
Now with 4 or 5 teams being contenders in the U-20 age category it is a perfect timing to have a World Cup style of event in Canada. America Cup is the name that comes to mind.
Imagine this format - Finland, Sweden, Canada, USA and Russia play round robin of 4 games. Last team is off and top four seeds meet each other in best of three. Top team against the fourth and second against the third. Winners advance to the finals and also play best of 3 games.
It doesn't seem to be as important to have a best-on-best tournament among the U20 group as it does at the senior level. I don't see what would be proven that the WJC doesn't already prove. At the youth level, there are big differences in the quality of hockey in different countries based on differences in opportunities to develop in competitive situations. Those differences begin to even out at the senior level, and you have a much more meaningful competition. I wouldn't be against it, but I don't see a real appeal for it.

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02-01-2011, 06:15 PM
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Why don't we just cut the wjc down to 5 teams. We wouldn't miss much.

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02-01-2011, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutbar View Post
Why don't we just cut the wjc down to 5 teams. We wouldn't miss much.
the other teams need to partake as well - to develop the game and see what to look up to.

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