HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Will we see the greatest hockey ever?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-13-2010, 10:58 AM
  #1
Up the Irons
Registered User
 
Up the Irons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 480
Will we see the greatest hockey ever?

If Canada meets Russia in the gold medal final, it could be the greatest hockey game of all time.

Ovechkin is already, probably, a top 20 player of all-time and may well be top 7 by the time he is done (will he be considered better than Espo, Hull, or Belliveau? Possibly. Certainly, he will be considered better than Lafleur or Messier).

Brodeur is the greatest ever, Pronger and Neidermayer are both top 20 d-men. Crosby is the best Canadian since Lemieux.

I'm praying for this matchup because it has the makings of an all-time classic.

Up the Irons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 11:39 AM
  #2
llwyd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki
Country: Finland
Posts: 502
vCash: 500
I would go for the 1987 Canada Cup finals being the best hockey ever - the only thing making it even better would have been to have it best of 7 with matches both on international and NHL ice. An amazing pool of talent in those matches.

llwyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 11:55 AM
  #3
NewFang
Registered User
 
NewFang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustE View Post
(will he be considered better than Espo, Hull, or Belliveau? Possibly. Certainly, he will be considered better than Lafleur or Messier).
You just had to go there.

NewFang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 11:58 AM
  #4
Frank the Tank
The Oiler Tankers
 
Frank the Tank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
You just had to go there.
I know. As the attention shifts to Olympic Men's Ice Hockey I imagine more threads similar to this one will appear. Please leave the Crosby and Ovechkin non-sense on the main board.

Frank the Tank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 11:59 AM
  #5
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,537
vCash: 500
Canada Cup 87 had unbelievable talent but the event was spoiled with the worst officiating in the hockey history. Soviet team was thumped by the zebras.

The best hockey game in history in hockey was the final in Quebec in 2008.

I watched bunch of games from 5 years ago and older and the hockey made huge leaps forward with its development. Hockey in 2004, 2002 looks a level slower than what I am seeing right now so it is quite possible that any match ups between top 5-6 teams can lead to some of the best hockey games ever.

Siberian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 02:03 PM
  #6
DowJones
Registered User
 
DowJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 790
vCash: 500
It has the potential to be for sure.

The Canada Cup final had the potential to be but was ruined by the reffing.


Last edited by DowJones: 02-14-2010 at 03:17 PM.
DowJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 02:58 PM
  #7
eliostar
Registered User
 
eliostar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
I can't imagine it can ever beat 1980, there just isn't the kind of drama .
This will be like the last few Olympics, nothing more.
If it's half as good as last years playoffs, I'll be happy.

eliostar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 03:05 PM
  #8
octopi
Registered User
 
octopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30,542
vCash: 703
Depends.



Also good to have just in case it is.

octopi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 03:21 PM
  #9
Czech Your Math
Registered User
 
Czech Your Math's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,358
vCash: 50
Why this will be great tournament:

- In Canada
- Last Olympics for Brodeur, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Jagr, Forsberg, Selanne, Fedorov, Alfredsson, etc.
- Breakout tournament for new generation of stars

Why this will not be the greatest hockey ever:

- It's always a short tournament, but this is an even briefer one (only 3 games in group), so will be difficult for some teams to play together
- Group games may be mostly yawners, until last day
- Don't expect Ovechkin and Crosby to dominate in the medal round, there are too many great players at the Olympics, and goaltending, team defense and secondary scoring will prevail.

Czech Your Math is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 11:30 PM
  #10
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustE View Post
If Canada meets Russia in the gold medal final, it could be the greatest hockey game of all time.

Ovechkin is already, probably, a top 20 player of all-time and may well be top 7 by the time he is done (will he be considered better than Espo, Hull, or Belliveau? Possibly. Certainly, he will be considered better than Lafleur or Messier).

Brodeur is the greatest ever, Pronger and Neidermayer are both top 20 d-men. Crosby is the best Canadian since Lemieux.

I'm praying for this matchup because it has the makings of an all-time classic.
Ovechkin is a top 20 player already? Are you kidding me?

I can name 30 players that are still considered better than him but I will name 20 for beginners.

1. Gretzky ,2. Orr ,3. Lemieux ,4. Howe 5. Richard, 6. Beliveau, 7. Bossy, 8. Lafleur , 9. Morenz, 10. Hull, 11. Shore, 12. Bourque, 13. Roy, 14. Harvey, 15. Messier, 16. Trottier, 17. Esposito, 18. Potvin, 19. Jagr, 20. Lidstrom

No way is Ovechkin near the top 30 yet. In maybe 5-10 years he will become a top 30-20 all time but he has a lot of hockey left to play.

As for Crosby being the best Canadian player since Lemieux. I think Sakic, Lindros, Nidermayer have something to say about that.

The other comment about Brodeur being the best ever I think Hasek, Roy, Sawchuck, Dryden, Plante, Esposito have something to say about that.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2010, 11:54 PM
  #11
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,537
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Ovechkin is a top 20 player already? Are you kidding me?

I can name 30 players that are still considered better than him but I will name 20 for beginners.

1. Gretzky ,2. Orr ,3. Lemieux ,4. Howe 5. Richard, 6. Beliveau, 7. Bossy, 8. Lafleur , 9. Morenz, 10. Hull, 11. Shore, 12. Bourque, 13. Roy, 14. Harvey, 15. Messier, 16. Trottier, 17. Esposito, 18. Potvin, 19. Jagr, 20. Lidstrom

No way is Ovechkin near the top 30 yet. In maybe 5-10 years he will become a top 30-20 all time but he has a lot of hockey left to play.

As for Crosby being the best Canadian player since Lemieux. I think Sakic, Lindros, Nidermayer have something to say about that.

The other comment about Brodeur being the best ever I think Hasek, Roy, Sawchuck, Dryden, Plante, Esposito have something to say about that.
It's like saying in NBA Lebron James is not in the top 30 and John Stockton is better than him. In other words very subjective and in a way dumb.

Siberian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 02:13 AM
  #12
NobodysFaulkButMine
You jelly, Staal?
 
NobodysFaulkButMine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto, CAN
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,070
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NobodysFaulkButMine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
It's like saying in NBA Lebron James is not in the top 30 and John Stockton is better than him. In other words very subjective and in a way dumb.
So if OV retired today, he should be considered a top 30 player? Please, don't be so delusional. He has the talent to become a top 30 player but he hasn't done anything yet. He's only been in the league for 5 years! Yes, he's dominated since he started but so did every other player in the top 30 list for longer periods of time. All time players don't make it in based on potential, otherwise Lemieux and Orr would be more acclaimed then Gretzky. If OV continues his torrid pace for another 5 years, then yes, I'd put him in the top 30 (Yet, some may still be reluctant).

It's absolutely absurd that a 24 year old is being considered a top 30 player of all time. It's like saying my 10 year old brother is the greatest player to ever play single A because he's dominated it for a year.

NobodysFaulkButMine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 03:04 AM
  #13
PaulieVegas
Registered User
 
PaulieVegas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Country: United States
Posts: 671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Canada Cup 87 had unbelievable talent but the event was spoiled with the worst officiating in the hockey history. Soviet team was thumped by the zebras.
Amen. Canada has 7 men on the ice at all times in that final game: 3 forwards, 2 defensemen, 1 goalie, and Don Koharski. Anyone who disagrees is obvously a biased Canadian.

I think the 2002 Olympics is the best ever. The quality of the play in that tournament was unlike anything I've ever seen. It parallels the Sabres-Stars final in 1999 as the greatest quality hockey I've seen.

PaulieVegas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 03:07 AM
  #14
PaulieVegas
Registered User
 
PaulieVegas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Country: United States
Posts: 671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAShoesm View Post
So if OV retired today, he should be considered a top 30 player? Please, don't be so delusional. He has the talent to become a top 30 player but he hasn't done anything yet. He's only been in the league for 5 years! Yes, he's dominated since he started but so did every other player in the top 30 list for longer periods of time. All time players don't make it in based on potential, otherwise Lemieux and Orr would be more acclaimed then Gretzky. If OV continues his torrid pace for another 5 years, then yes, I'd put him in the top 30 (Yet, some may still be reluctant).

It's absolutely absurd that a 24 year old is being considered a top 30 player of all time. It's like saying my 10 year old brother is the greatest player to ever play single A because he's dominated it for a year.
I have followed hockey my whole life, and I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a player with the level of talent that Ovechkin has. Gretzky and Lemieux may have more of the intangibles that make them better overall players than Ovy, but I don't think anyone that has played this game has had better pure talent that Ovechkin. When he retires, he may be the best of all time (except in the mind of Canadians, who will never accept that anyone outside their own nationality can ever be considered the greatest).

PaulieVegas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 03:25 AM
  #15
RewBicks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country:
Posts: 1,628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
I have followed hockey my whole life, and I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a player with the level of talent that Ovechkin has. Gretzky and Lemieux may have more of the intangibles that make them better overall players than Ovy, but I don't think anyone that has played this game has had better pure talent that Ovechkin. When he retires, he may be the best of all time (except in the mind of Canadians, who will never accept that anyone outside their own nationality can ever be considered the greatest).
LOL. All that can be said.

But really, he is a fantastic player.

RewBicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 03:34 AM
  #16
Hermit Wizard Eater
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Ovechkin is a top 20 player already? Are you kidding me?

I can name 30 players that are still considered better than him but I will name 20 for beginners.

1. Gretzky ,2. Orr ,3. Lemieux ,4. Howe 5. Richard, 6. Beliveau, 7. Bossy, 8. Lafleur , 9. Morenz, 10. Hull, 11. Shore, 12. Bourque, 13. Roy, 14. Harvey, 15. Messier, 16. Trottier, 17. Esposito, 18. Potvin, 19. Jagr, 20. Lidstrom

No way is Ovechkin near the top 30 yet. In maybe 5-10 years he will become a top 30-20 all time but he has a lot of hockey left to play.

As for Crosby being the best Canadian player since Lemieux. I think Sakic, Lindros, Nidermayer have something to say about that.

The other comment about Brodeur being the best ever I think Hasek, Roy, Sawchuck, Dryden, Plante, Esposito have something to say about that.
WOW. Are you some kind of Jagr hater???

Jagr is WAYYY higher than 19. Probably 3-5.

Hermit Wizard Eater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 03:36 AM
  #17
Nordic*
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tellus
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 12,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Canada Cup 87 had unbelievable talent but the event was spoiled with the worst officiating in the hockey history. Soviet team was thumped by the zebras.

The best hockey game in history in hockey was the final in Quebec in 2008.

I watched bunch of games from 5 years ago and older and the hockey made huge leaps forward with its development. Hockey in 2004, 2002 looks a level slower than what I am seeing right now so it is quite possible that any match ups between top 5-6 teams can lead to some of the best hockey games ever.
Yeah, there's a noticeable difference in speed and "gameplay" if you compare todays NHL to what it was only 5-6 years ago. The level of talent and skill in the NHL today is just scary.

Like someone else said, it would be awesome to see a 7-game-series - both big and small ice.

Nordic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 03:46 AM
  #18
End of Line
Moderator
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 19,070
vCash: 500
Idk if anything can beat the 1980 games. It brought the country together and so much drama.


End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 03:50 AM
  #19
Jwm1986
Registered User
 
Jwm1986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 1,893
vCash: 500
A player who hasnt even finished his 5th season in the NHL is nowhere near those all time greats yet....ask again in 10 years and maybe that will change....

Jwm1986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 05:30 AM
  #20
RedLeader
Registered User
 
RedLeader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,365
vCash: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
WOW. Are you some kind of Jagr hater???

Jagr is WAYYY higher than 19. Probably 3-5.
haha that's rich.

RedLeader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 06:24 AM
  #21
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
Amen. Canada has 7 men on the ice at all times in that final game: 3 forwards, 2 defensemen, 1 goalie, and Don Koharski. Anyone who disagrees is obvously a biased Canadian.

I think the 2002 Olympics is the best ever. The quality of the play in that tournament was unlike anything I've ever seen. It parallels the Sabres-Stars final in 1999 as the greatest quality hockey I've seen.
Don't forget that Canada and the USSR played 4 times in that tournament and you have probably seen the youtube clips some of the Russian fans have made of every call that went against their team in that tournament. If you go back and watch the whole thing you will see that officiating did not decide that tournament, but some Russian ego's were definitely bruised.

As for 2002 I have to agree. The goal in the final where Lemieux faked and let the puck go through is legs to Kariya was insane. I honestly think any other player in the history of the game takes that shot, but Lemieux showed why he was one of the best ever.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 09:54 AM
  #22
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
I have followed hockey my whole life, and I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a player with the level of talent that Ovechkin has. Gretzky and Lemieux may have more of the intangibles that make them better overall players than Ovy, but I don't think anyone that has played this game has had better pure talent that Ovechkin. When he retires, he may be the best of all time (except in the mind of Canadians, who will never accept that anyone outside their own nationality can ever be considered the greatest).
Based on pure talent alone Orr, Bure, Jagr and Lemieux all have more pure talent than Ovechkin. Actually Malkin has more pure talent than Ovechkin as well.

Jagr could stickhandle, pass, backhand, better than Ovechkin. He had better vision, a very similar wrist shot and was stronger on the puck. Also in Jagr's first few seasons circa 1991-1997 he was a better skater than Ovechkin. He just changed his game to better dominate the new clutch and grab type hockey.

The only thing Ovechkin has now over Jagr is his excitement but even then Jagr in the mid 90's was more exciting and explosive than Ovechkin is now.


Last edited by livewell68: 02-14-2010 at 09:59 AM.
livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 09:56 AM
  #23
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
WOW. Are you some kind of Jagr hater???

Jagr is WAYYY higher than 19. Probably 3-5.
Have you seen what my avatar name is? lol

I love the guy but he's a top 20 player but his other baggage stuff and his few down years in Washington place him at 19.

Maybe in the future he will be considered a top 10 player.

If he has a dominant Olympic and maybe if he comes back and can become a 90+ Pts player for a 1-3 years again then he could be considered top 10.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 10:06 AM
  #24
Nordic*
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tellus
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 12,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Based on pure talent alone Orr, Bure, Jagr and Lemieux all have more pure talent than Ovechkin. Actually Malkin has more pure talent than Ovechkin as well.

Jagr could stickhandle, pass, backhand, better than Ovechkin. He had better vision, a very similar wrist shot and was stronger on the puck. Also in Jagr's first few seasons circa 1991-1997 he was a better skater than Ovechkin. He just changed his game to better dominate the new clutch and grab type hockey.

The only thing Ovechkin has now over Jagr is his excitement but even then Jagr in the mid 90's was more exciting and explosive than Ovechkin is now.

Why didn't I see this coming, jags6868 coming to his heroes aid.

Nordic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2010, 10:22 AM
  #25
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Why didn't I see this coming, jags6868 coming to his heroes aid.
Well I wasn't even compare Ovechkin to Lemieux or Orr because we all know just how great those two were but Jagr on the other hand gets very little respect for how good he really was.

To say Ovechkin is the most purely talented player ever is very foolish.

I was just trying to show that Jagr (a top 20) player is much more talented than Ovechkin so Ovechkin shouldn't deserve top 20 recognition and top 30 either. As it stands right now Ovechkin is somewhere around 50-40.

Please if what I said was wrong about Jagr's skill set tell me.

The Penguins version of Jagr was much more talented than Ovechkin, even in New York Jagr had more talent.

The only thing that Ovechkin clearly has over Jagr is his drive. That's a 31-38 year old Jagr though.

In his 20's Jagr was very driven, very passionate about hockey.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.