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Muller won't be back next year

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Old
01-25-2011, 05:43 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Good job making no sense. Those guys are getting a coaching gig elsewhere. No need to keep them as we have a good coach already that is not getting fired.
We are making the transition right now to a youth movement, and Martin's handling of young players is questionable at best.

If Martin doesn't get lights out goaltending from Halak and a hot streak from Cammalleri, he gets replaced by Boucher or Muller in the off-season and we aren't even discussing this right now. It happens at every level of life, when a younger guy comes along that can do the job, he takes your spot. Martin could have easily been moved to Assistant GM so he that he can still earn his paycheck and be an asset to the organization.

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01-25-2011, 05:43 PM
  #77
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Martin has his flaws, but he's put a system in place that gets consistent results. The guys on the team buy in, it's time for the fans too.

Sure he isn't the greatest with young players, but that's what we need a coach like Muller for. When the team starts playing his system correctly, which is hard to do, they do well.

One problem is that our D-core is too old and slow to handle some of the top offensive units in a passive resistance fashion, leads to holding/hooking/interference penalties that we wouldn't need to take with a quicker D-core that could keep up with them speed wise.

Our team is something like 27-17 without Andrei Markov.. When it the last time we could fathom something like that?

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01-25-2011, 05:44 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Or the fact he can get a coaching gig elsewhere.

The Muller rumor was even brought up last summer so your source is just rehashing a rumor that really isn't one.
My source is Muller's hairdresser

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Old
01-25-2011, 05:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Because he benches Eller and Subban. I mean Subban really has been affected lately. Oh wait.
Yeah look at how he ruined Pacioretty, Eller, Pouliot, Kostitsyn, Subban, Weber and Desharnais....

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01-25-2011, 05:46 PM
  #80
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So, our head-coach is a fool, and the departure of Muller, a guy our fool of head-coach picked as his assistant, is considered as a drama.
Make sense, if you are blind/nuts/etc...

I can bet that some here will complain about the new coach when Martin will be gone.
I can bet something like a mansion or a excellent job, because its so obvious...

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01-25-2011, 05:47 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
We are making the transition right now to a youth movement, and Martin's handling of young players is questionable at best.

If Martin doesn't get lights out goaltending from Halak and a hot streak from Cammalleri, he gets replaced by Boucher or Muller in the off-season and we aren't even discussing this right now. It happens at every level of life, when a younger guy comes along that can do the job, he takes your spot. Martin could have easily been moved to Assistant GM so he that he can still earn his paycheck and be an asset to the organization.
First bold: Based on what? The fact that he benches them?
Second bold: Yea it must be easy to transition into a new team composed of new players. I mean any coach could have brought them to the ECF with that. I mean his defense blocking shots was not him at all, you know?

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01-25-2011, 05:49 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
Tell why Jacques is not a good coach.
It's been talked about to death here before.

Personally, I can't stand his defense-first system as I feel we don't have the necessary size to play such a game and it's limiting the potential explosiveness of our offence (we have plenty of offensive players being limited by the system, Plekanec said as much when he revealed players have been asked to focus more on defense at the expense of offense).

In addition, I don't like his handling of younger players with the constant benchings. Say what you want about PK getting better recently, but for a long time his confidence was shaken, and he's only regained it recently. If you're Eller, how can you NOT be tentative out there, knowing Moen will take your spot if you make one little mistake? I also can't stand the fact Pouliot gets zero powerplay time and that a scrub had to play with Gomez for the first 20-odd games of the year.

Look at Ken Hitchock: similar style, and look where he's ended up now. Martin's "system" has won him absolutely nothing in his career, despite being at the head of plenty of good Senators teams. Price's play has also gotten us a lot of wins this year. A goalie is definitely part of the team, but those low scoring affairs we were winning were less about Martin's system but rather Price's good play. Ditto for the playoffs - if Halak wasn't otherwordly, it would've been over long before it was (not saying he was the only deciding factor in us getting that far).

My (likely biased) two cents.

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Old
01-25-2011, 05:58 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
It's been talked about to death here before.

Personally, I can't stand his defense-first system as I feel we don't have the necessary size to play such a game and it's limiting the potential explosiveness of our offence (we have plenty of offensive players being limited by the system, Plekanec said as much when he revealed players have been asked to focus more on defense at the expense of offense).

In addition, I don't like his handling of younger players with the constant benchings. Say what you want about PK getting better recently, but for a long time his confidence was shaken, and he's only regained it recently. If you're Eller, how can you NOT be tentative out there, knowing Moen will take your spot if you make one little mistake? I also can't stand the fact Pouliot gets zero powerplay time and that a scrub had to play with Gomez for the first 20-odd games of the year.

Look at Ken Hitchock: similar style, and look where he's ended up now. Martin's "system" has won him absolutely nothing in his career, despite being at the head of plenty of good Senators teams. Price's play has also gotten us a lot of wins this year. A goalie is definitely part of the team, but those low scoring affairs we were winning were less about Martin's system but rather Price's good play. Ditto for the playoffs - if Halak wasn't otherwordly, it would've been over long before it was (not saying he was the only deciding factor in us getting that far).
What offense? We can't compete with teams like the Pens, Flyers, Caps or even Bruins in terms of offense. He has turned this team into one the best defensive squads of the league. Also keep in mind the Habs have out shot teams in most games.

Oh boohoo, Mr is bored during hockey. All I care is winning regardless how they do it.

Oh he really handled the kids badly eh? Subban and Pacioretty are playing sooo bad. Price really has not recovered and never matured like Martin predicted he would. I mean Martin really never was successful with kids, he completely ruined the careers of Alfredsson, Havlat and Hossa. Oh wait, he didn't. I got confused by your post. In fact I recall Hossa thanking Martin for molding him into a 2-way player.

Hitchcock has 2 straight finals appearance and a Cup.

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Old
01-25-2011, 06:01 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
It's been talked about to death here before.

Personally, I can't stand his defense-first system as I feel we don't have the necessary size to play such a game and it's limiting the potential explosiveness of our offence (we have plenty of offensive players being limited by the system, Plekanec said as much when he revealed players have been asked to focus more on defense at the expense of offense).

In addition, I don't like his handling of younger players with the constant benchings. Say what you want about PK getting better recently, but for a long time his confidence was shaken, and he's only regained it recently. If you're Eller, how can you NOT be tentative out there, knowing Moen will take your spot if you make one little mistake? I also can't stand the fact Pouliot gets zero powerplay time and that a scrub had to play with Gomez for the first 20-odd games of the year.

Look at Ken Hitchock: similar style, and look where he's ended up now. Martin's "system" has won him absolutely nothing in his career, despite being at the head of plenty of good Senators teams. Price's play has also gotten us a lot of wins this year. A goalie is definitely part of the team, but those low scoring affairs we were winning were less about Martin's system but rather Price's good play. Ditto for the playoffs - if Halak wasn't otherwordly, it would've been over long before it was (not saying he was the only deciding factor in us getting that far).

My (likely biased) two cents.
The problem is Martin has to develop young player and deliver results. If playing Eller jeopardizes the possibility of a win on a given night, JM will bench him. On other night Eller will play more. It's normal. But Lars has a good mindset and he knows he has to play better and not take stupid hooking penalties every game.

Subban got benched, was shaken, but look how he is playing. We have rookies playing good hockey, the team is on a positive streak, yet people complain about the coach saying that "the system" sucks. I don't care if it sucks, I want the team to win and go all the way.

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Old
01-25-2011, 06:02 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
First bold: Based on what? The fact that he benches them?
Second bold: Yea it must be easy to transition into a new team composed of new players. I mean any coach could have brought them to the ECF with that. I mean his defense blocking shots was not him at all, you know?
1. The fact he doesn't communicate well with them. Maybe you didn't catch Max Pacioretty's interview/rant on Team 990 earlier this season. Benching Subban may have worked, but it didn't work out so well at first. You can say his benching made him better, maybe taking him off a pairing with Picard and giving him the responsibilities and confidence he deserves made him better.

2. Yeah, the defense blocked a lot of shots. Pretty sure that's what they are paid to do, pretty sure that's been Hal Gill's bread and butter for as long as he's been in the NHL and Josh Gorges as well. I guess Jacques Martin yells from the bench everytime he wants them to block a shot? I suppose getting out shot 2-to-1 several times is all part of his genius system too. Fact is, without stellar goaltending his system sinks faster than a 200lb stone in a lake.

I'm not saying Martin doesn't excel at certain things, obviously one his strengths is to push the play in the defensive zone to the outside to limit opposition scoring chances. He also relies on his forwards coming extremely deep into our own zone to support our D, which is why we score so few goals in the process. I just don't like his coaching style, nothing you can say will change that.

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Old
01-25-2011, 06:06 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
1. The fact he doesn't communicate well with them. Maybe you didn't catch Max Pacioretty's interview/rant on Team 990 earlier this season. Benching Subban may have worked, but it didn't work out so well at first. You can say his benching made him better, maybe taking him off a pairing with Picard and giving him the responsibilities and confidence he deserves made him better.

2. Yeah, the defense blocked a lot of shots. Pretty sure that's what they are paid to do, pretty sure that's been Hal Gill's bread and butter for as long as he's been in the NHL and Josh Gorges as well. I guess Jacques Martin yells from the bench everytime he wants them to block a shot? I suppose getting out shot 2-to-1 several times is all part of his genius system too. Fact is, without stellar goaltending his system sinks faster than a 200lb stone in a lake.

I'm not saying Martin doesn't excel at certain things, obviously one his strengths is to push the play in the defensive zone to the outside to limit opposition scoring chances. He also relies on his forwards coming extremely deep into our own zone to support our D, which is why we score so few goals in the process. I just don't like his coaching style, nothing you can say will change that.
Yet Pacioretty came back and playing great. Martin is only 2pts from the NE leading without his 2 best defenders.

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01-25-2011, 06:10 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
What offense? We can't compete with teams like the Pens, Flyers, Caps or even Bruins in terms of offense. He has turned this team into one the best defensive squads of the league. Also keep in mind the Habs have out shot teams in most games.
What I meant was that we have speedy, offensive players like Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri, yet all three, each to a certain extent, are not performing as well as they could. You could blame it on a few things, but you have to believe our style of play is playing a part of that. I wasn't implying we had the same offensive firepower as those teams, either.

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Oh boohoo, Mr is bored during hockey.
Where did I say this?

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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Oh he really handled the kids badly eh? Subban and Pacioretty are playing sooo bad. Price really has not recovered and never matured like Martin predicted he would. I mean Martin really never was successful with kids, he completely ruined the careers of Alfredsson, Havlat and Hossa. Oh wait, he didn't. I got confused by your post. In fact I recall Hossa thanking Martin for molding him into a 2-way player.
Subban might have been ****ing up once in a while earlier in the year, but his scratching made things a lot worse before they got better. You can't seriously say that Martin is the reason he's suddenly playing better...I credit his mental fortitude (that many were dismissing) for the improvement.

As for Price, damn, it was so hard to predict he would mature and rebound this year as he had. Or let me rephrase that: did you expect him to say that Price's play would not improve and his development would hit a snag?

re: Sens - Havlat and Alfredsson all had their best years after Martin was gone. Just a thought. And I never denied Martin's defensive knowledge as you're acting I am, I just don't think it's going to get us anywhere. I'll gladly eat my words and bow down to him should we win the Cup, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Hitchcock has 2 straight finals appearance and a Cup.
His game is not suited for the modern day NHL, I wasn't talking about his past success, but rather the fact he had diffiiculty adopting to the post-lockout NHL (which is why he's out of a job).

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01-25-2011, 06:15 PM
  #88
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With his ability to work with kids, to run the PP and PK along with experience in handling media he is a shoe in for the job in Toronto, especially as a ex-player too.

Muller to me is the obvious choice.

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01-25-2011, 06:17 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
I'll gladly eat my words and bow down to him should we win the Cup, though.

Oooooooh you're a real risk taker.

"Ya he sucks but he won't suck anymore if he wins a SC because then me complaining would really make me look dumb."

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01-25-2011, 06:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
It's been talked about to death here before.

Personally, I can't stand his defense-first system as I feel we don't have the necessary size to play such a game and it's limiting the potential explosiveness of our offence (we have plenty of offensive players being limited by the system, Plekanec said as much when he revealed players have been asked to focus more on defense at the expense of offense).

In addition, I don't like his handling of younger players with the constant benchings. Say what you want about PK getting better recently, but for a long time his confidence was shaken, and he's only regained it recently. If you're Eller, how can you NOT be tentative out there, knowing Moen will take your spot if you make one little mistake? I also can't stand the fact Pouliot gets zero powerplay time and that a scrub had to play with Gomez for the first 20-odd games of the year.

Look at Ken Hitchock: similar style, and look where he's ended up now. Martin's "system" has won him absolutely nothing in his career, despite being at the head of plenty of good Senators teams. Price's play has also gotten us a lot of wins this year. A goalie is definitely part of the team, but those low scoring affairs we were winning were less about Martin's system but rather Price's good play. Ditto for the playoffs - if Halak wasn't otherwordly, it would've been over long before it was (not saying he was the only deciding factor in us getting that far).

My (likely biased) two cents.
Pat Burns and Jacques Lemaire are two very coaches very well known for their defensive systems and they are well establish as two of the best coaches ever, so clearly there is something good with this type of coach. The fact that the habs have alot of sucess (conference finals this season standings) without our best player may sugest that this system is a right fit for the team.

If you want to talk about his time with the Sens remmeber that his best seasons in career were without any quality goalie so saying that he is riding only on hot goalies with the habs is kind of dishonest.

Well I' m not the biggest fan of how he handle young players, but it seem to work with the ones we have right now. I think he is thinking something like natural selection if you can't handle the pressure on the ice from the coach and teamates how you will handle MTL in the long terms ? Anyway seem to work great right now, our young player will just be stronger mentally. Alot of coaches benches and give bad linemates/icetimes to young players. Remember Carolina game where Skinner wasplaying on the third line ? Also well our PP work pretty great since a long time now, why change it ?

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01-25-2011, 06:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
We are making the transition right now to a youth movement, and Martin's handling of young players is questionable at best.
What ?

The core is composed of veterans who are signed to big contracts for multiple years, we aren't the Kings, Oilers, Avalanche, etc.

There's no "youth movement"... just like every competitive team, we are trying to plug holes with cheap, young players, but this team isn't in a rebuilding mode, far from it.

As for "questionnable", I'd say that your darling PK has responded extremely well to the benching. Pouilot is becoming much more consistant... and Eller, well, he's definitely not a Stamkos...

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01-25-2011, 06:47 PM
  #92
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This is very possible. Dissapointing as it is...

I'd like to keep Muller but the likelihood of PG making a coaching change are obviously slim (up till now). It's unfortunate that there could be some teams in our division looking for a coach this off-season; that sucks.

He was a great C and is catching a lot of attention. Habs should try to do some sort of formal nod to him as the Coach in waiting (transition plan). And that's probably a limited strategy since that presumes everything runs smooth.

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01-25-2011, 07:09 PM
  #93
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Bloody hell, dump Martin and give him the job!

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01-25-2011, 07:35 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Bloody hell, dump Martin and give him the job!
seriously i shudder to think what this team will be like next year without him

you guys think we're have any come back wins like these next year?
who's going to motivate the team?
Martin?

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01-25-2011, 09:56 PM
  #95
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Not only the habs are the farm team of the NHL for the players, but are for the coaches now as well... Wow...

I would take Muller before Martin in a heartbeat. To think that this team could've had Guy Boucher as a coach...

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01-25-2011, 11:56 PM
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Unfortunately Muller would probably not have been given a shot to coach here because of the language problem (which I don't agree with). PG won't fire his right hand man in Martin unfortunately either. But Montreal is losing a big piece of their coaching staff. A guy that understands the players, is fiery, won a Stanley cup here and knows what Montreal is all about.

Mitch Melnick has a great blog about it http://www.melnickblog.blogspot.com/ Here.

I think he is the most important guy on the coaching staff, easily. According to Mitch's blog the Devils wanted to talk to Muller to Co-coach with Maclean this year but the habs denied permission. You can bet hes going there this summer.

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01-26-2011, 12:21 AM
  #97
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Unfortunately Muller would probably not have been given a shot to coach here because of the language problem (which I don't agree with). PG won't fire his right hand man in Martin unfortunately either. But Montreal is losing a big piece of their coaching staff. A guy that understands the players, is fiery, won a Stanley cup here and knows what Montreal is all about.

Mitch Melnick has a great blog about it http://www.melnickblog.blogspot.com/ Here.

I think he is the most important guy on the coaching staff, easily. According to Mitch's blog the Devils wanted to talk to Muller to Co-coach with Maclean this year but the habs denied permission. You can bet hes going there this summer.
Amen.

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01-26-2011, 02:28 AM
  #98
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wtf does Muller do for the team anyways? He looks more like a cheerleader than a coach.

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01-26-2011, 07:25 AM
  #99
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wtf does Muller do for the team anyways? He looks more like a cheerleader than a coach.
He's in charge of the PP while Pearn is in charge of our PK (pretty sure its like that but it might be the other way around). However special teams and Carey Price are the backbone of our team, if both aren't working we don't win since we suck at 5 on 5.

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01-26-2011, 09:01 AM
  #100
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What exactly did Muller accomplish last playoffs? I only noticed an extreme emphasis on collapsing that wasn't there during the regular season but I attributed to the fact that the Habs were facing the most badass team in the league.

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