All I know is that we are in a rebuild and we might as well be patient with him...whether he can be a good 2C on a contender remains to be seen, but no one can really question his work ethic or passion for the game. Hopefully in 2 more seasons he can continue his defensive play, faceoffs, and speed and be an even more effective player.
I think people want to believe they've seen a vast improvement. I know heading into this season I was defending Gagner as much as anyone claiming that he will still be that elite 2nd line center/borderline 1st line center and this will be his year. But I just watch him closely and realize that he really has not improved much. Of course he's improved a bit, but not at the rate he should have improved and it is a direct result of rushing him IMO. For the LIFE OF ME I will never understand keeping Gagner and sending Schremp down that year. I mean I know why it happened no names mentioned Mac T....but managment should have stepped in...of course managment was just as inept if not more so then the coach at that time!
..Because Cogs and Gagner had great training camps while Schremp had an average one? Please don't turn this into a Schremp thread, this is about Gagner.
I'll say this, if in 2 years he is still mediocre on faceoffs and soft on the puck and is a 45-55 point guy I'd be disappointed. This 2 year contract he got last summer was a statement from management. Before Lowe would have signed him for 4 years but Tambs pretty much is putting the onus on Gagner now. I'm expecting 55-60 points this year (I still think he can hit that number) and then if I am Tambellni I am sending his ass to Gary Roberts this summer.
Then in 2 years time his trade value is **** if this is all that he can do. Therein lies the problem.
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
gagner is officially the scapegoat, I agree with you.
no one even mentions Hall and his struggles this year, but they put the blame on Gagner.
There you go again. I hate how your so Hateful towards Hall. Just leave it.
I think I'm gonna put a players name in my name and just drown them in my hate.
I think people want to believe they've seen a vast improvement. I know heading into this season I was defending Gagner as much as anyone claiming that he will still be that elite 2nd line center/borderline 1st line center and this will be his year. But I just watch him closely and realize that he really has not improved much. Of course he's improved a bit, but not at the rate he should have improved and it is a direct result of rushing him IMO. For the LIFE OF ME I will never understand keeping Gagner and sending Schremp down that year. I mean I know why it happened no names mentioned Mac T....but managment should have stepped in...of course managment was just as inept if not more so then the coach at that time!
Schremp is a child with a piss poor attitude, I would rather have gagner's win at all cost attitude than Schremp's laziness. We need players that work hard every practise and every game.
In a lot posts on here. This one was the one I was thinking of in particular
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam89Gags
Gagner will improve as the team improves.
Don't get me wrong, I obviously hope the kid becomes an elite 1st line center I don't think anyone doesn't! But you can't ignore that he has flatlined and I'm worried that because he has not improved much from his rookie season that he won't become the player we need him to be.
..Because Cogs and Gagner had great training camps while Schremp had an average one? Please don't turn this into a Schremp thread, this is about Gagner.
Like how Peckham had a poor camp this year? The bottom line is that they should've given Schremp a look see and sent Gagner down another year, that would've been the wise thing to do. That said I agree let's not turn this into a Schremp thread but an asset was wasted and Gagner was probably rushed because of a bad coaching decision.
Then in 2 years time his trade value is **** if this is all that he can do. Therein lies the problem.
His defenisve game will improve, that's a guarantee. If his offensive production stall, it wouldn't hurt to have him on the third line centre which means Cogs is booted out.
Schremp is a child with a piss poor attitude, I would rather have gagner's win at all cost attitude than Schremp's laziness. We need players that work hard every practise and every game.
Good for you, and would you rather that Gagner be ruined because he was rushed to the NHL? Cause that's what's going on
Watching the games I do not see any evidence of imporvement in Gagner's game at either end of the ice. In fact I think has he not only stagnated but declined. In his rookie season he was able to accomplish good things playing with two other rookies. 4 years later he again is playing with 2 NHL rookies and looks like he cannot keep up with them most shifts.
Schremp is a child with a piss poor attitude, I would rather have gagner's win at all cost attitude than Schremp's laziness. We need players that work hard every practise and every game.
Yet his teammates like him and what does that have to do with rushing Gagner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eytinge
Agreed, but I believe he's capable of more.
If that's management's belief they had damn well better be right especially if we aren't drafting a center in the 1st round.
Like how Peckham had a poor camp this year? The bottom line is that they should've given Schremp a look see and sent Gagner down another year, that would've been the wise thing to do. That said I agree let's not turn this into a Schremp thread but an asset was wasted and Gagner was probably rushed because of a bad coaching decision.
The difference was at that time we were trying to make the playoffs and the fact that Gagner had 7 points in his first 10 games while Stoll was struggling did not help matters. This year everyone knew it was a year for development and Peckham over someone like Petiot made sense for us even if Petiot had the better camp.
Good for you, and would you rather that Gagner be ruined because he was rushed to the NHL? Cause that's what's going on
The fact is he played tremendously in the pre-season and deserved to be on the starting roster that year. It may have stalled his development a bit but his shortcomings will be addressed in coming years.
I think Gagner can be a good 2nd line center in this league. From watching the games played, I would say he is improving his overall game. His state line may not be showing much improvement, but part of the reason may be that he's playing on the worst team in the league, and lately, he's also been playing with 2 NHL rookies.
I would hope that 2 years from now he'll be a 65 point, + player that has become respectable on faceoffs.
I support Gagner. I think he should be here for the long run. He's a good leader, he has a solid two-way game even if IATL disagrees. He's solid offensively and can play a good, simple game as well as play in a support role with consistently good teamates.
This year he hasn't had consistently good linemates, but he has been able to play his simple game as seen when he plays with Jones. Also his support role recently with Paajarvi and Omark shows that he can be useful.
However, Gagner will never be as good as he could've been. We (fanbase) and management forced Gagner into a situation he shouldn't of been in. We rushed his development badly, and although he hasn't struggled because of it (consistent ~50 point centres at 21 is pretty damn good) he also hasn't lived up to expectations. Fans wanted him in the lineup, the Oilers brass needed to have something new that season, and now we have Cogs and Gags both struggling to live up to there potential.
..Because Cogs and Gagner had great training camps while Schremp had an average one? Please don't turn this into a Schremp thread, this is about Gagner.
I'm not, what I'm saying is that there was ABSOLUTLY ZERO REASON TO RUSH GAGNER! Lot's of guys have great training camps that are terrible! Schremp had an amazing camp in 06 so I guess he should have been on the team by your logic. That's the biggest crock ever is when people point out how good or bad there training camp was. There are very few situations where that should decide what to do with a player weather people actually want to hear that or not. Omark got sent down after a good camp because there weren't top 6 minutes for him here and I would have done the same with Paajarvi. Not because he wasn't good enough to play, but because there were only so many top 6 and PP minutes to go around.
His defenisve game will improve, that's a guarantee. If his offensive production stall, it wouldn't hurt to have him on the third line centre which means Cogs is booted out.
His defensive game can only improve as much as he gets stronger and quicker. He might think defensively better but if he wants to be our 3rd line center he had better be much improved because he'd get eaten alive playing Cogliano's minutes right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Drama
Good for you, and would you rather that Gagner be ruined because he was rushed to the NHL? Cause that's what's going on
Pretty much, but he has a right to his opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14
If he remains around 50 points, why in 2 years would his value drop significantly? Because he is now 23 years old?
Yeah because he wouldn't have progressed a lick offensively in 6 years.
Watching the games I do not see any evidence of imporvement in Gagner's game at either end of the ice. In fact I think has he not only stagnated but declined. In his rookie season he was able to accomplish good things playing with two other rookies. 4 years later he again is playing with 2 NHL rookies and looks like he cannot keep up with them most shifts.
In his rookie year, Gagner floated and that contributed to his -21 rating. This year, he's battling for pucks down low and chipping in defensively.
Yet his teammates like him and what does that have to do with rushing Gagner?
If that's management's belief they had damn well better be right especially if we aren't drafting a center in the 1st round.
I'm not sure if Gagner will be a number one center for a contending team. But as a 2nd line center I have no problem with that. As long as he can work on getting stronger or faster (preferably both) and up his offensive production.
His defenisve game will improve, that's a guarantee. If his offensive production stall, it wouldn't hurt to have him on the third line centre which means Cogs is booted out.
George Forman gaurantee?
Cogliano has been the Oilers best Pker in the last 15 games and Gagner does not have the elite quickness needed for a small/weak player to become a good 3rd line C.
The fact is he played tremendously in the pre-season and deserved to be on the starting roster that year. It may have stalled his development a bit but his shortcomings will be addressed in coming years.
Well, you have a right to your opinion but IMO you have blinders on my friend. I'm not saying anybody has to hate Gagner, I don't hate Gagner. But be real about him.
I'm not, what I'm saying is that there was ABSOLUTLY ZERO REASON TO RUSH GAGNER! Lot's of guys have great training camps that are terrible! Schremp had an amazing camp in 06 so I guess he should have been on the team by your logic. That's the biggest crock ever is when people point out how good or bad there training camp was. There are very few situations where that should decide what to do with a player weather people actually want to hear that or not. Omark got sent down after a good camp because there weren't top 6 minutes for him here and I would have done the same with Paajarvi. Not because he wasn't good enough to play, but because there were only so many top 6 and PP minutes to go around.
Why is everyone so pissy today with the yelling. Turn off the caps buddy and calm down.
