My issue with Gagner is that Eberle is already stronger, he's not very fast, and he hasn't progressed much if at all offensively.
That's shocking when you consider how vastly older he is than Eberle.
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That is his realistic role here IMO. That said to each their own, while I'm not a fan of his lack of progression I will admit that the kid has heart and works hard out there, the problem is that this isn't a situation like little league baseball where trying your hardest is all that matters, this is a business where results matter and 4 years in we need to see more.
Wait: are you talking about Gagner or Steve Tambellini here?
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As for his future here, that could be decided this June, maybe even sooner. I wouldn't be proclaiming him to be a safe bet to be here long term, not by a long shot, at least not yet.
If the organization gives up on Gagner for some shiny new toy, they're even dumber than I think they are.
Well, you have a right to your opinion but IMO you have blinders on my friend. I'm not saying anybody has to hate Gagner, I don't hate Gagner. But be real about him.
No I'm not blind, I clearly see things. The fact that if people don't think Gagner can't improve nor they don't see him here in the long run, they're blind. I'm real about him, more than the doubters here.
Cogliano has been the Oilers best Pker in the last 15 games and Gagner does not have the elite quickness needed for a small/weak player to become a good 3rd line C.
Yea, I can guarantee with Gagner's work ethic, he will imrpvoe defensively. And he's 21 and he's gonna get stronger. What makes you believe that he won't get stronger at 24, or 26?
Yeah because he wouldn't have progressed a lick offensively in 6 years.
If teams have that view, then they would probably see his lack of progression over his first 4 years just as regressive as the first 6 years though. Either a team will really like his potential at his age or they won't. I'm not sold that his lack of progression over 4 or 6 years really will affect his value a ton.
I'm running off now, everyone keep calm so that I don't have to be dishing out infractions when I get back. Lots of bright people posting in this thread, keep it civil, if it gets too heated take a step back and cool off. Have fun!
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Why is everyone so pissy today with the yelling. Turn off the caps buddy and calm down.
I'm not pissy or mad at you, but whenever think back to the organization rushing Gagner I get tweeked. One of the worst decisions this franchise has made in the last 10 years and that's saying something!
Let me preface by saying, I know stats don't tell the whole story.
But for comparisons worth, I think they are a pretty good comparison.
Current GA/60 for the Oilers forward for any forward with >20 games played.
The worst player with a GA/60 is Sam Gagner with 3.91.
Worse than Hall(who's GA has gone down tremendously from 3.74 earlier in the season), worse than Ebs and even Cogliano.
At even strength, Sam Gagner is giving up the most goals against among forwards on this team.
QualTeam indicates he has some good linemates and QualComp indicates he doesn't face the hardest opposition.
That to me is pretty telling. In a year where we're breaking in 3 rookies at forward, Sam Gagner does worse in a two-way way while having pretty good teammates and 3 years of league experience.
Look I'm all about patience, I really am. But Sam Gagner needs to take a noticeable step forward. He's taken baby steps here and there, but he's also taken steps back too.(Like his cycling I thought declined from his rookie season where he was fantastic at it)
Sam Gags needs to get into a weight program in the offseason, and get back his cycling game that he's lost. Because there is a chance he gets played off this team.
I'm not pissy or mad at you, but whenever think back to the organization rushing Gagner I get tweeked. One of the worst decisions this franchise has made in the last 10 years and that's saying something!
I will agree with you Gagner was rushed but its all hindsight. But the thing is, you act like this rushing has ruined him permanantely. I'm aware of his shortcomings but at the same time, this whole damange can be reversed with a more stable team and hopefully a winning culture in this locker room.
To be better, you need character guys and Gagner is one of them. His potential will come to fruition, I can GUARANTEEE you that.
No I'm not blind, I clearly see things. The fact that if people don't think Gagner can't improve nor they don't see him here in the long run, they're blind. I'm real about him, more than the doubters here.
Ohhhhhh ok cause you know that he won't get traded....
Hall is fresh out of juniors, this is Gagner's 4th pro season, it's not exactly the same now is it?
This is the problem with this whole board on gagner. Why look at it in terms of season, physically and mentally his body doesnt know that. Fact is he is younger then petry and eberle is almost a similar age. He cant help it its not his rookie year or his sophomore year like it should have been.
Let me preface by saying, I know stats don't tell the whole story.
But for comparisons worth, I think they are a pretty good comparison.
Current GA/60 for the Oilers forward for any forward with >20 games played.
The worst player with a GA/60 is Sam Gagner with 3.91.
Worse than Hall(who's GA has gone down tremendously from 3.74 earlier in the season), worse than Ebs and even Cogliano.
At even strength, Sam Gagner is giving up the most goals against among forwards on this team.
QualTeam indicates he has some good linemates and QualComp indicates he doesn't face the hardest opposition.
That to me is pretty telling. In a year where we're breaking in 3 rookies at forward, Sam Gagner does worse in a two-way way while having pretty good teammates and 3 years of league experience.
Look I'm all about patience, I really am. But Sam Gagner needs to take a noticeable step forward. He's taken baby steps here and there, but he's also taken steps back too.(Like his cycling I thought declined from his rookie season where he was fantastic at it)
Sam Gags needs to get into a weight program in the offseason, and get back his cycling game that he's lost. Because there is a chance he gets played off this team.
This is the problem with this whole board on gagner. Why look at it in terms of season, physically and mentally his body doesnt know that. Fact is he is younger then petry and eberle is almost a similar age. He cant help it its not his rookie year or his sophomore year like it should have been.
You are also comparing guys who had a much different development then Gagner
Hall is on the same path Gagner is. Straight from the draft to the NHL. The only difference is Hall is a much stronger and faster player then Gagner will ever be.
Now Eberle played 2 more seasons in the WHL after his draft. Went to the world juniors twice and saw some time in the minors. There is a similarity in size and speed between the two but from my point of view Eberle seems to be able to handle it better than Gagner.
What I am trying to say is the team's rush to have Gagner here as soon as possible probably has stunted his development. He is still playing like a Junior. Sometimes those guys don't get out of those funks. Look at Brule for example
I don't see what the big deal is. His contract is perfect for this situation:
- if he does well (65+ points) over the next two years, starts winning some faceoffs and battles, then he's a vital part of the future
- if he can't crack 60 points and doesn't get stronger on the puck, then his future is in doubt.
This two year deal is great for both sides. I think he can become a 60-70 point centre, but there isn't any need for a caps-lock-filled debate. This team isn't going to win anything in the meantime; let's just wait and see.
its the cycle with oilers fans. Gagner, cogs and nilsson were so awesome and the future so we dont need stoll, torres or marty sakic. Now everyone with hindsight is oh so smart and lowe was stupid for trading them even though they were both getting the gagner treatment.
How the big 3 and omark are new and shiny so ship out cogs and gags, nilsson is already gone. God forbid one of them has a slump or stagnates we will be back at the beginning again
its the cycle with oilers fans. Gagner, cogs and nilsson were so awesome and the future so we dont need stoll, torres or marty sakic. Now everyone with hindsight is oh so smart and lowe was stupid for trading them even though they were both getting the gagner treatment.
How the big 3 and omark are new and shiny so ship out cogs and gags, nilsson is already gone. God forbid one of them has a slump or stagnates we will be back at the beginning again
You are also comparing guys who had a much different development then Gagner
Hall is on the same path Gagner is. Straight from the draft to the NHL. The only difference is Hall is a much stronger and faster player then Gagner will ever be.
Now Eberle played 2 more seasons in the WHL after his draft. Went to the world juniors twice and saw some time in the minors. There is a similarity in size and speed between the two but from my point of view Eberle seems to be able to handle it better than Gagner.
What I am trying to say is the team's rush to have Gagner here as soon as possible probably has stunted his development. He is still playing like a Junior. Sometimes those guys don't get out of those funks. Look at Brule for example
not to be a dick but i dont get this post or the quote. Youre saying pretty much what i said when this should have been gagner's rookie/sophmore season
If the organization gives up on Gagner for some shiny new toy, they're even dumber than I think they are.
If that was to happen then Gagner should forever be used as Exhibit A for why you don't take an 18 year old draft pick and put him straight into the NHL.
If at 20 years old Gagner had a 50 pt rookie season fans would would still be gushing over the uber prospect instead of looking to send him packing elsewhere.
I guess the good news for Gagner would be that he could go to a US team and actually be able to drink legally now.
Gagner's been my favourite player ever since Smytty left so I'm sticking by Sam Gagner's side through thick and thin. Once this team is rebuilt, and Gags is part of this team, I'll bump this thread and rub it in all you doubters.
Nothing feels better than rubbing salt in the doubters wounds.
Gagner is the future as much as Hall, Omark, Eberle, and paajarvi are. That's a FACT
Watching Gagner play, he's got the talent to be a solid 2nd line center in his prime. He's got enough speed, he can play a two-way game, and he's got hands. He's got the grit and determination that he'll work to improve the areas of his game that aren't strong right now. Hell, I could see him wearing an A in the future. He's still 3 or 4 years away from his prime; you can't expect him to be a complete player already. He's got a lot of time to develop still.
For now, I think it should just be recognized that this team isn't good enough to compete for a playoff berth. Let all of the young guys develop together and they'll hit their primes at the same time.
(Note, Edmonton is my #2 team and I follow the team as closely as I can despite lack of regular televised broadcasts).
I'm not pissy or mad at you, but whenever think back to the organization rushing Gagner I get tweeked. One of the worst decisions this franchise has made in the last 10 years and that's saying something!
