HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Guy Lapointe is underrated

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-26-2011, 03:25 PM
  #1
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,291
vCash: 500
Guy Lapointe is underrated

First of all , I think the Montreal Canadiens , my favorite team , were shameless in not retiring his number.Also , I don't why but everybody seems to forgot how great of a offensive d-man and puck moving defenseman Pointu really was.Just wanted to make a tribute to this player I respect a lot.Maybe the story would be differant if he wasn't the one always playing with the 4th d-man on those Montreal teams.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 03:56 PM
  #2
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 8,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
First of all , I think the Montreal Canadiens , my favorite team , were shameless in not retiring his number.Also , I don't why but everybody seems to forgot how great of a offensive d-man and puck moving defenseman Pointu really was.Just wanted to make a tribute to this player I respect a lot.Maybe the story would be differant if he wasn't the one always playing with the 4th d-man on those Montreal teams.
This is true.

Good point.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 04:52 PM
  #3
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,291
vCash: 500
For example , as far as I'm concerned , it is obvious Lapointe is a superior defenseman than Niedermayer.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 07:07 PM
  #4
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
First of all , I think the Montreal Canadiens , my favorite team , were shameless in not retiring his number.Also , I don't why but everybody seems to forgot how great of a offensive d-man and puck moving defenseman Pointu really was.Just wanted to make a tribute to this player I respect a lot.Maybe the story would be differant if he wasn't the one always playing with the 4th d-man on those Montreal teams.
I have thought this for sometime

FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 07:44 PM
  #5
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,291
vCash: 500
Even the threads concerning him are underrated lmao

Seems like nobody cares about him , but let me tell you , Savard had charisma and leadership and great defensive skills ( probably offensive skills before his big injury ) but imo Lapointe was a better player.The only reasons Robinson and Savard are ahead of him ( and I really like those players ) are intangibles one way or the other ( not to mention playing with each other ) , because Lapointe was more talented than both.My opinion.Flame away.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 08:33 PM
  #6
Canadiens1958
Registered User
 
Canadiens1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 11,191
vCash: 500
Guy Lapointe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
First of all , I think the Montreal Canadiens , my favorite team , were shameless in not retiring his number.Also , I don't why but everybody seems to forgot how great of a offensive d-man and puck moving defenseman Pointu really was.Just wanted to make a tribute to this player I respect a lot.Maybe the story would be differant if he wasn't the one always playing with the 4th d-man on those Montreal teams.
Remember him from his pre Verdun Maple Leaf days. Lapointe was a superior talent but conditioning and training left a bit to be desired.

Never had serious injuries like Savard(three times inc junior) and Robinson but had the shortest NHL career..

Also goin thru the HSP reveals that Lapointe had a fair share of time with Savard and Robinson as defensive partners.

Canadiens1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 08:48 PM
  #7
Derick*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,624
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Derick*
I love his name. Sounds like the quintessential Habs historical player name.

Derick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2011, 11:08 PM
  #8
overpass
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,571
vCash: 500
Lapointe was on the first unit of both the power play and the penalty kill for the dynasty Canadiens. He was the only* player who played on both first units for most of the dynasty, which speaks to his abilities at both ends of the ice.

*The other one would be Larry Robinson in 77-78 and 78-79, at least when Lapointe or Savard was injured. Not sure who the go-to options were in the playoffs when everyone was in the lineup.

overpass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2011, 07:01 AM
  #9
Chumley
 
Chumley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 133
vCash: 500

Chumley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2011, 07:04 AM
  #10
Chumley
 
Chumley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 133
vCash: 500
I would say he is underrated. Even though I hated the Habs in the 70's he was a very good defensiveman. Another D-man that was also very good was Don Awrey with the Bruins and then played for the Habs for a couple of years in the mid '70's.

Chumley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2011, 07:43 AM
  #11
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
For example , as far as I'm concerned , it is obvious Lapointe is a superior defenseman than Niedermayer.
I don't think it's obvious. Niedermayer was the leading Canadian vote getter for 3 straight Norris trophies, so I think he had the better peak than Lapointe. But it was only 3 seasons long. Lapointe was an elite defenseman for much longer. Depends on how you weight the factors.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2011, 07:45 AM
  #12
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Lapointe was on the first unit of both the power play and the penalty kill for the dynasty Canadiens. He was the only* player who played on both first units for most of the dynasty, which speaks to his abilities at both ends of the ice.

*The other one would be Larry Robinson in 77-78 and 78-79, at least when Lapointe or Savard was injured. Not sure who the go-to options were in the playoffs when everyone was in the lineup.
It seems Bowman tried to balance the ice time of his "Big 3," so Robinson-Savard was the top pair at even strength, Lapointe-Savard, on the PK, and Lapointe-Robinson on the PP.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2011, 07:57 AM
  #13
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 8,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumley View Post
I would say he is underrated. Even though I hated the Habs in the 70's he was a very good defensiveman. Another D-man that was also very good was Don Awrey with the Bruins and then played for the Habs for a couple of years in the mid '70's.
You can't seriously compare Don Awrey to Guy Lapointe.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2011, 06:02 AM
  #14
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Lapointe had a hard, accurate shot. He was good playing the point on powerplay. He is one of Habs #5 defensmen of all time. I would put him ahead of JC Tremblay

FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2011, 09:36 AM
  #15
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 8,023
vCash: 500
In his book "The Game", Ken Dryden illuded to Lapointe being the most talent of the big 3 at the time. Not sure how he put it, some scholarly phrasing, no doubt, that would not offend Robinson or Savard.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2011, 09:56 PM
  #16
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't think it's obvious. Niedermayer was the leading Canadian vote getter for 3 straight Norris trophies, so I think he had the better peak than Lapointe. But it was only 3 seasons long. Lapointe was an elite defenseman for much longer. Depends on how you weight the factors.
Not sure about Lapointe having a longer time as an elite Dman than Nieds.

An interesting comp though since both guys suffered from playing with Dmen who overshadowed them to some degree.
Just for fun I comapred the top scoring dmen of both players times from age 22-30 (Lapointe's prime)

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...y=games_played

Lapointe looks better on these terms but Nieds aged way better and has that Conn Smythe as well and played for Canada in the Olympics in his final year (indicating that he might have had more in the tank).

At the end of the day Lapointe is probably (as of the end of the 10 seasons) in the top 30 for Dmen but behind Nieds IMO.

Not sure why some would consider him underrated form that lsit in his prime at least 2 and maybe 3 guys below him (Savard, Salming and Robinson) probably should be rated above him for their entire careers.

Back to the OP why do you think he is underrated and where do you rank him all time?

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 02:59 PM
  #17
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Not sure about Lapointe having a longer time as an elite Dman than Nieds.
Niedermayer was an elite defenseman for about as long as the Montreal dynasty in the 70s lasted. And Lapointe was known as an elite defenseman well before the dynasty (he and Savard would particularly effective when they played together in the 72 Summit series, from what I recall).

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 05:56 PM
  #18
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,009
vCash: 500
Not a bad peak if I may say.

1st team all-star: 1973
2nd team all-star: 1975, 1976, 1977

The guy is criminally underrated for sure. Played big parts on Team Canada in 1972 and 1976 as well. Was trustworthy, would join the rush, was a decent size too.

The Hockey News once bad mouthed the guy putting him in the category of HHOFers who don't deserve to be in there. Don't worry, it was crazy Ken Campbell writing the article we all know how he's revered around here, but still.

The crazy thing is people underrate him because of Robinson, not so much Savard. No doubt Robinson was the better defenseman who had the better career. With Savard you could flip a coin although Lapointe did have a better Norris voting record.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 06:20 PM
  #19
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Niedermayer was an elite defenseman for about as long as the Montreal dynasty in the 70s lasted. And Lapointe was known as an elite defenseman well before the dynasty (he and Savard would particularly effective when they played together in the 72 Summit series, from what I recall).
Both guys had a 9 year run of "eliteness" and Nieds was pretty good after his late start year for another 2 seasons.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 06:24 PM
  #20
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Both guys had a 9 year run of "eliteness" and Nieds was pretty good after his late start year for another 2 seasons.
Please, oh please tell me which years encompass Niedermayer's "9 year run."

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 06:37 PM
  #21
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Please, oh please tell me which years encompass Niedermayer's "9 year run."
well he made the all star team in 98, 04, 06 and 07 and was still a top Dman in the 2 years after his 08 late start year which wasn't very good.

He also had 2 good playoff years before 98 and at least a couple of good seasons as well.

Everyone knows that you are more of a Stevens fan but at least give Nieds his due here.

Do you disagree that he should be ranked above Lapointe?

I know we had a discussion once about where Nieds should be placed but can't remember.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 06:41 PM
  #22
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,291
vCash: 500
No way I would take Niedermayer before Lapointe.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 06:53 PM
  #23
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
No way I would take Niedermayer before Lapointe.
Why?

You could argue that Lapointe had the better peak but Nieds played at a very high level up until his age 36 season.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2011, 01:37 PM
  #24
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
well he made the all star team in 98, 04, 06 and 07 and was still a top Dman in the 2 years after his 08 late start year which wasn't very good.

He also had 2 good playoff years before 98 and at least a couple of good seasons as well.

Everyone knows that you are more of a Stevens fan but at least give Nieds his due here.

Do you disagree that he should be ranked above Lapointe?

I know we had a discussion once about where Nieds should be placed but can't remember.
Niedermayer's 1998 was kind of a fluke season for him, where he scored a lot more points than he did in any other year until his Norris season. He got recognition because of the points he put up that season, not really his overall game (which was pretty good, not elite). I've seen Niedermayer of the era compared to Jay Bouwmeester and I think it's a good comparison - very good defenseman, has all the tools to be elite but not the toolbox, never really in the conversation for the true elite talents in the league.

When the Devils were winning the Cup in 2000, Niedermayer was a 30 point defenseman, who was still prone to errors in his own end.

I rank Guy Lapointe and Niedermayer very close to each other. I do have Lapointe slightly ahead though.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2011, 01:44 PM
  #25
Beerfish
Registered User
 
Beerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,068
vCash: 500
I agree that he was underrated, it gets much tougher though when comparing him to particular players from another era.

What a tremendous top 3 Dman those Habs teams had.

Robinson, Savard, Lapointe.

Beerfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.