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Kings vs. Sharks - 01/26/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:02 AM
  #101
Orenji
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Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
If it was a mod that asked you not to then I think you have to stop doing it. If not I say at the very least you do the game threads til the Kings lose. Seriously. This team needs every bit of mojo we can give it!
It was a mod ~ if it was just some random Joe, I wouldn't care. Puck U can do the next one, and if we lose, we can blame the Mojo Gods.

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01-27-2011, 11:03 AM
  #102
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Does Lokti look like he's fits yet or does he still look a little raw, inexperienced and could be better suited to go back to the AHL?
He's looking like he fits.

He looks a hundred times better this callup than he did in his last callup

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01-27-2011, 11:10 AM
  #103
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I'm still trying to figure out how Keith Yandle got an all-star spot but not Jack? Anyways, more rest for our guys

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01-27-2011, 11:15 AM
  #104
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Other than the point about Handzus's salary I don't agree.

Stoll often gets run down by commenters on this board for no good reason other than some Kings fans must think they have a pre-ordained right to something like a Crosby - Malkin combo and anything less is garbage. I'd just say that Stoll is indeed a legitimate 2nd line centre, let's be realistic about the spread of talent in the NHL, Stoll's stats are certainly comparable with most other 2nd line centres in the NHL and better than many. He performs his 2-way role very capably, is an excellent skater and is smart, is the best faceoff guy on the team and one of the best in the whole league, and actually is an offensive weapon when you really look at it in a clear-eyed way compared to other centres around the league. Can the Kings improve at #2 C, of course they can. Spezza would be an improvement at #2, yes I would go along with that of course, even though I don't really care all that much for him to tell you the truth. Sure, Stoll would be a great #3 but then again I would still take him over many if not most other #2 centres out there.

Regarding Handzus, one thing that rarely gets commented on is how much his hockey sense and 2-way knowledge has rubbed off on Kopitar. I would argue that Handzus's overall effect on Kopi's play has been quite large, I see quite a bit of Michal's style, approach and work ethic showing up in Anze's defensive game and that alone has a significant value that is easily overlooked.

Whether Handzus stays or goes after this season, either way I am not really too worried about the C position going forward, not with Schenn waiting in the wings, and also Lewis having his breakout year as a responsible, intelligent, trustworthy and speedy NHL defensive centre. Sorry I just don't see the Kings down-the-middle depth going into the future as any truly major problem, it's on the wings where the Kings need to focus most of their attention for improvement.
Exactly. Most people here want a 1a/b situation and due to that want to bash Stoll and says hes nothing more than a 3rd line center. His FO% is top 5 in the league, points hes 32nd, goals hes 23rd, assists hes 38th, 11th in hits. How many 3rd line centers have that kind of stat line? Theres a few true #2 guys out there that would be an improvement but any of those guys arent going to come cheap.

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01-27-2011, 11:47 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how Keith Yandle got an all-star spot but not Jack? Anyways, more rest for our guys
Serious? Yandle is a beast. Not to take anything away from Jack, but Yandle is a much better offensive player at this point.

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01-27-2011, 11:57 AM
  #106
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Serious? Yandle is a beast. Not to take anything away from Jack, but Yandle is a much better offensive player at this point.
Yeah, Yandle is awesome. He deserved to be there originally so I have no qualms about him receiving his much deserved invite now.

If you want to complain about All-Star defenseman, look no further than Erik Karlsson or Mike Green. Those two have no business being in the game. But alas, it's always been a broken system for the game so it's no big deal.

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01-27-2011, 12:05 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Serious? Yandle is a beast. Not to take anything away from Jack, but Yandle is a much better offensive player at this point.


plus it in fun to substitute "yandle" for "candle" in this song. That alone is worth an All star nod

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01-27-2011, 12:54 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Willard View Post
Other than the point about Handzus's salary I don't agree.

Stoll often gets run down by commenters on this board for no good reason other than some Kings fans must think they have a pre-ordained right to something like a Crosby - Malkin combo and anything less is garbage. I'd just say that Stoll is indeed a legitimate 2nd line centre, let's be realistic about the spread of talent in the NHL, Stoll's stats are certainly comparable with most other 2nd line centres in the NHL and better than many. He performs his 2-way role very capably, is an excellent skater and is smart, is the best faceoff guy on the team and one of the best in the whole league, and actually is an offensive weapon when you really look at it in a clear-eyed way compared to other centres around the league. Can the Kings improve at #2 C, of course they can. Spezza would be an improvement at #2, yes I would go along with that of course, even though I don't really care all that much for him to tell you the truth. Sure, Stoll would be a great #3 but then again I would still take him over many if not most other #2 centres out there.

Regarding Handzus, one thing that rarely gets commented on is how much his hockey sense and 2-way knowledge has rubbed off on Kopitar. I would argue that Handzus's overall effect on Kopi's play has been quite large, I see quite a bit of Michal's style, approach and work ethic showing up in Anze's defensive game and that alone has a significant value that is easily overlooked.

Whether Handzus stays or goes after this season, either way I am not really too worried about the C position going forward, not with Schenn waiting in the wings, and also Lewis having his breakout year as a responsible, intelligent, trustworthy and speedy NHL defensive centre. Sorry I just don't see the Kings down-the-middle depth going into the future as any truly major problem, it's on the wings where the Kings need to focus most of their attention for improvement.
It's one of the most important positions in the NHL, starting with winning faceoffs. They are so key to winning battles and controlling puck possession. We shouldn't SETTLE on these centres, we can do better and we should get better if we want to get anywhere in the playoffs.

Consider the top 2 Centres on the top teams in the NHL, from your own criteria by points...

Tampa Bay- Vinny/Stamkos (103 points)
Pitt- Crosby/Malkin (103 points)
Philly- Richards/Carter (91 points)
Vancouver- Sedin/Kesler (108 points)
Detroit- Datsyuk/ Flippula (69 points)*
Dallas- Richards/Ribeiro (103 points)
----------------------------------------------
Kings- Kopitar/Stoll (81 points)

* Didn't play as much as everyone else on the list this season, but nevertheless an effective combo.

That's quite a gap between Kopitar/Stoll and the top teams in the NHL. Look folks, there's no coincidence that the top teams in the NHL have TWO centres that are very productive. Did anyone watch the Canucks vs Kings round 1 action last year? We got smoked on puck possession because we got killed on faceoffs.

Some on here are just content on just making the playoffs. That's been the problem in this organization for 40 plus years, it just settles for a mediocre product, and content with being middle of the pack. It's why there's one freaking banner in the rafter that dates back to 1993 and its not a CUP banner.

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01-27-2011, 01:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Consider the top 2 Centres on the top teams in the NHL, from your own criteria by points...

Tampa Bay- Vinny/Stamkos (103 points)
Pitt- Crosby/Malkin (103 points)
Philly- Richards/Carter (91 points)
Vancouver- Sedin/Kesler (108 points)
Detroit- Datsyuk/ Flippula (69 points)*
Dallas- Richards/Ribeiro (103 points)
----------------------------------------------
Kings- Kopitar/Stoll (81 points)
... But you also have to consider that the Kings have a better team defense than any of the other teams on your list, with the possible exception of Tampa Bay, and the Lightning had some of the worst goaltending in the NHL before their acquisition of Roloson. So, you have to adjust for this.

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That's quite a gap between Kopitar/Stoll and the top teams in the NHL. Look folks, there's no coincidence that the top teams in the NHL have TWO centres that are very productive. Did anyone watch the Canucks vs Kings round 1 action last year? We got smoked on puck possession because we got killed on faceoffs.
... It wasn't that Kopitar and Stoll got killed on faceoffs; in the playoffs, both those guys combined won 95 out of 189 draws, which is a bit more than half of them. The problem is every other center got worked - Handzus, Halpern, and Richardson were all under 43%.

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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Some on here are just content on just making the playoffs. That's been the problem in this organization for 40 plus years, it just settles for a mediocre product, and content with being middle of the pack. It's why there's one freaking banner in the rafter that dates back to 1993 and its not a CUP banner.
... There's a lot of reasons why the Kings' history is as sorry as it is. I'm not gonna say there aren't people out there who will pay money to see a bad team because they need their hockey fix, because there are. But look at Toronto and how long they've been without a Cup (one year longer than L.A. has) and it's still very tough to find a seat at ACC. It's not that Leaf fans by and large are content with mediocrity or incompetence, but more so that the hockey market in that area is just very strong.

The fans have nothing to do with the lack of success of the Kings. The problem is that, outside of Jack Kent Cooke and Bruce McNall, the Kings haven't had ownership really interested in the hockey product. Jerry Buss and AEG are classic examples of owners who are more fascinated in their other toys than they are (or were) with the Kings.

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01-27-2011, 01:33 PM
  #110
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Is Kopitar elite?
That actually made me mad. Legitimately mad. Since ****ing when is goals the only measuring stick for a center? Let's completely ignore the 16 assists in the last 20 games. Let's ignore the fact that he's still leading the 2nd highest scoring King by 10 points. Let's ignore the ****ing incredible defensive play. Whatever.

Exciting game against the Sharks. Still getting bit after we score, but at least we forced a game to OT this time. OT was pretty exciting and the crowd was really going starting with that 4 min PK, it looked and sounded exciting to be in that building!

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01-27-2011, 01:46 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
That actually made me mad. Legitimately mad. Since ****ing when is goals the only measuring stick for a center? Let's completely ignore the 16 assists in the last 20 games. Let's ignore the fact that he's still leading the 2nd highest scoring King by 10 points. Let's ignore the ****ing incredible defensive play. Whatever.

Exciting game against the Sharks. Still getting bit after we score, but at least we forced a game to OT this time. OT was pretty exciting and the crowd was really going starting with that 4 min PK, it looked and sounded exciting to be in that building!
This is what i think as well...lol people dog Kopi left and right, and some now are saying he is a 2nd line center.... This is our best player on the team right now. Could he be better? Yes, but people overlook what he does night in a night out in a d-first system with borderline first line talent surrounding him.

On another note, our D has been looking solid as of late, and im excited to see if they can remain consistent. Drew is just everywhere, and JJ seems to have dialed into playing solid D positioning. Our Goalies have me a tad worried still (both of them are letting in 1-2 softies each game), but i think JQ will start getting back into form (as long as he doesnt handle the puck).

Some good things to build on overall.

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01-27-2011, 01:48 PM
  #112
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Yeah, Yandle is awesome. He deserved to be there originally so I have no qualms about him receiving his much deserved invite now.

If you want to complain about All-Star defenseman, look no further than Erik Karlsson or Mike Green. Those two have no business being in the game. But alas, it's always been a broken system for the game so it's no big deal.
first of all, think about what Karlsson has to deal with. If you tossed him on almost any other team in the league not named Ottawa, NY Islanders or New Jersey he would have even more insane numbers. He's 23rd in ice time, 20 years old, plays with the second worst offensive team in the league and is on pace for 46 points. By the way, that is good enough for currently being SECOND on Ottawa in points. His plus/minus could even be argued that he's playing on a poor team and going against other team's top players every night. Hell, being a -17 on that team, at that age, against those players in the East. Hell, that's impressive.

Myers btw had 48 points last year, that's two more then what Karlsson is on pace for. Also, 46 points would make him 13th last year too. I'm a Karlsson slappy so i figure'd id post something.

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He's looking like he fits.

He looks a hundred times better this callup than he did in his last callup
So he's just not getting on the stats sheet because he's not finishing, others aren't finishing or just bad luck? Does he look like he finally put on some weight?

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01-27-2011, 01:51 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Some on here are just content on just making the playoffs. That's been the problem in this organization for 40 plus years, it just settles for a mediocre product, and content with being middle of the pack. It's why there's one freaking banner in the rafter that dates back to 1993 and its not a CUP banner.
Let me just say this, of course I am not "content" about the Kings until they are at the top of the Stanley Cup mountain and I don't think other Kings fans are either.

The issue is, in this salary-cap era, where do you allocate resources to improve your team. While I did not dispute that it was possible to improve at the C position, looking realistically you have to turn your eyes to the wings where more work needs to be done on this roster than at C.

Bear in mind not even the Stanley Cup winner ever has the best possible player at every position. To win consistently you have to find the right roster balance and the right salary allocation. When you compare the Kings to the rest of the league the Kings are actually rather strong at C. Few teams have centres who are as defensively responsible, as a group, as the Kings' centres are, and the Kings centres are also making a very good account for themselves offensively when you truly look at the numbers comparatively.

However, the Kings can use more than one better wing on their roster. If you want to really see why the Kings are not at the promised land yet, start by actually looking long and hard at who is flanking these centres on this roster.

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01-27-2011, 01:52 PM
  #114
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Funny how every time we win and Stoll has a good game there is a stretch of people defending him. Then when we lose Stoll is one of the first persons being attacked.

Smyth/Stoll/Williams have chemistry so don't mess with that line even if they slump a little.
It's obvious we have no one yet that has clicked with Kopitar. Brown is the best answer at RW and cross our fingers someone steps up on the left side. I do know it will take a while for Loki to adjust to LW and probably don't have time to give it to him. I doubt we trade for a 1st line winger so Parse when healthy or Sturm, Simmonds, Richardson, and Moller look like our options. 3rd line of Clifford/Lewis/Simmonds looks pretty good though Sturm/Lewis/Simmonds would be more of a responsible line. I love Clifford but I would send him to Manchester play him 20 min a game there and be ready for 2011-12.

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01-27-2011, 03:57 PM
  #115
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first of all, think about what Karlsson has to deal with. If you tossed him on almost any other team in the league not named Ottawa, NY Islanders or New Jersey he would have even more insane numbers. He's 23rd in ice time, 20 years old, plays with the second worst offensive team in the league and is on pace for 46 points. By the way, that is good enough for currently being SECOND on Ottawa in points. His plus/minus could even be argued that he's playing on a poor team and going against other team's top players every night. Hell, being a -17 on that team, at that age, against those players in the East. Hell, that's impressive.

Myers btw had 48 points last year, that's two more then what Karlsson is on pace for. Also, 46 points would make him 13th last year too. I'm a Karlsson slappy so i figure'd id post something.
Possibly but rewards shouldn't be about a hypothetical. Sure, he could put up more points on a higher scoring team but he could put up less as well because he could potentially be actually held accountable for playing defense as well on a team playing for something. It goes both ways.

Karlsson is actually 38th (among d-men) in TOI, his age should be irrelevant in rewards discussion, I won't argue for/against his +/- because it's such a terrible stat, and while I'd agree that his offensive production is impressive given his age and the team he's on, it's still 18th in league and given his porous defensive play (he's 4th in d-men giveaways) in the 6 or so games I've seen him this year (there's a reason he's been scratched this year) and it doesn't scream all-star to me; it screams that every NHL franchise was going to get a representative no matter how bad the team has been, which happened, but Karlsson got placed in the main game and not the rookie skills list where he belongs. It's the same concession process that has a stud like John Carlson on the outside looking in because a team like the Coyotes initially needed a representative due to Yandle's snub so Ekman-Larsson got in as a rookie. Karlsson is an impressive young player and definitely a guy to watch for a long time but he's only there because he's probably been the best Senator this year but that's not saying much. James Wisniewski put up similar stats to Karlsson while he was on the Islanders this year. Would you have campaigned for his inclusion on the team? He had a better PPG, averaged slightly more ice time, and was on a terrible team too.

I'm not trying to slander Karlsson as he's one of the finest young prospects in the game but I can't see how he deserves to be an All Star in this game over Yandle (originally), Visnovsky, Liles, Johnson, Edler, Suter if we're playing the projection game and you saw how much Weber's game regressed without him, etc. He deserves to be there as a rookie for the skills competition but that's it.

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01-27-2011, 04:03 PM
  #116
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So he's just not getting on the stats sheet because he's not finishing, others aren't finishing or just bad luck? Does he look like he finally put on some weight?
He's only been up 4 games on his recent call up and he did score a goal.
The line he has been on has 2 ice cold players in Kopitar and Brown.

He's had chances and frankly could have scored another goal or two.

He looks like he has caught up to the speed of the NHL game and he is seeing the game much better than his last callup.

Whether or not this call up is permanent, he has made great strides.

He doesn't look like he has put much weight on

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01-27-2011, 06:23 PM
  #117
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Am I missing something....what does it matter what any of those guys make....the pay they are receiving isn't effecting the Kings....so unless your name is Phil I not sure why it makes you mad that they are making money. Only one that might cause cap issues would be Stoll (who you didn't list, I'm just stating) in the coming years, and as long as his numbers don't plummet in the future its not a big deal.

Now just because others opinion on players sway game to game doesn't change the reality of the Kings present and future. This year they were a 5/6 seed with the off chance at 3 depending on the Pacific (as it had no "great" teams leading into the year...see Det/Van/Chi), that still hasn't changed. The Kings come out of the break vs Min/Edm/Cal 3 easily winnable games and 2 vs teams right there in the standings win all 3 and the Kings are right back where they should have been at the beginning of the year.
This ^

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01-27-2011, 06:37 PM
  #118
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It's one of the most important positions in the NHL, starting with winning faceoffs. They are so key to winning battles and controlling puck possession. We shouldn't SETTLE on these centres, we can do better and we should get better if we want to get anywhere in the playoffs.

Consider the top 2 Centres on the top teams in the NHL, from your own criteria by points...

Tampa Bay- Vinny/Stamkos (103 points)
Pitt- Crosby/Malkin (103 points)
Philly- Richards/Carter (91 points)
Vancouver- Sedin/Kesler (108 points)
Detroit- Datsyuk/ Flippula (69 points)*
Dallas- Richards/Ribeiro (103 points)
----------------------------------------------
Kings- Kopitar/Stoll (81 points)

* Didn't play as much as everyone else on the list this season, but nevertheless an effective combo.

That's quite a gap between Kopitar/Stoll and the top teams in the NHL. Look folks, there's no coincidence that the top teams in the NHL have TWO centres that are very productive. Did anyone watch the Canucks vs Kings round 1 action last year? We got smoked on puck possession because we got killed on faceoffs.

Some on here are just content on just making the playoffs. That's been the problem in this organization for 40 plus years, it just settles for a mediocre product, and content with being middle of the pack. It's why there's one freaking banner in the rafter that dates back to 1993 and its not a CUP banner.
Its no coincidence that all the teams you listed outside of Detroit, who can run Zetterberg at the #2, are all running guys at #2 that would be #1 on alot of team. Having a 1a/1b situation is different than a team having the luxury of having two #1 guys to run out in their top 6. Saying Stoll isnt a #2 then trying to compare him to those guys doesnt work.

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01-28-2011, 12:50 PM
  #119
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The Kings come out of the break vs Min/Edm/Cal 3 easily winnable games and 2 vs teams right there in the standings win all 3 and the Kings are right back where they should have been at the beginning of the year.
Did you really say 3 "easily winnable" games?

Talk about your mega-jinx! Good Luck with that.


But if they can keep playing like they did against Bos & SJ - no problem!

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01-28-2011, 05:15 PM
  #120
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I thought this pic of Leiweke and Luc during the shootout was pretty cool. Purple tie and all.


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01-28-2011, 05:18 PM
  #121
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I thought this pic of Leiweke and Luc during the shootout was pretty cool. Purple tie and all.

That photo tells me at some point there was a discussion about Dean's job and whether Luc is willing to step in if we miss the playoffs

I know, I know, that's nuts...or is it?

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01-28-2011, 06:47 PM
  #122
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That photo tells me at some point there was a discussion about Dean's job and whether Luc is willing to step in if we miss the playoffs
I know, I know, that's nuts...or is it?
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So are they cheering because the Kings scored on the SO ? or earlier because a Kings shooter missed and Luc was that much closer to the GM Job ? notice no one else around them is happy ? hmmmm

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01-28-2011, 07:11 PM
  #123
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It's been strange that the Kings start a winning streak when my monitor is dying on me... I'll set the new one up when we lose one on the road trip...

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01-29-2011, 01:20 AM
  #124
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... But you also have to consider that the Kings have a better team defense than any of the other teams on your list, with the possible exception of Tampa Bay.
are you serious? come on...tell me you are forgetting about a bunch of teams...

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01-29-2011, 02:06 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
It's one of the most important positions in the NHL, starting with winning faceoffs. They are so key to winning battles and controlling puck possession. We shouldn't SETTLE on these centres, we can do better and we should get better if we want to get anywhere in the playoffs.

Consider the top 2 Centres on the top teams in the NHL, from your own criteria by points...

Tampa Bay- Vinny/Stamkos (103 points)
Pitt- Crosby/Malkin (103 points)
Philly- Richards/Carter (91 points)
Vancouver- Sedin/Kesler (108 points)
Detroit- Datsyuk/ Flippula (69 points)*
Dallas- Richards/Ribeiro (103 points)
----------------------------------------------
Kings- Kopitar/Stoll (81 points)

* Didn't play as much as everyone else on the list this season, but nevertheless an effective combo.

That's quite a gap between Kopitar/Stoll and the top teams in the NHL. Look folks, there's no coincidence that the top teams in the NHL have TWO centres that are very productive. Did anyone watch the Canucks vs Kings round 1 action last year? We got smoked on puck possession because we got killed on faceoffs.

Some on here are just content on just making the playoffs. That's been the problem in this organization for 40 plus years, it just settles for a mediocre product, and content with being middle of the pack. It's why there's one freaking banner in the rafter that dates back to 1993 and its not a CUP banner.
Are you talking about #2 Centers, or 1A/1B, with the exception of Dallas those are all 1a/1B and even Detroit, can run Zetterberg at a #2, but regardless,

Quite a gap? 10 points is quite a gap, that is the gap between Philly's centers and LA's, and Carter is a #1 on more than half the teams in the league, so yea, I would say Stoll is doing just fine...

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