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Old
02-01-2011, 09:16 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Probably, most other teams could afford it as well.

Spezza, Parise, Karlsson, Cowen, Rundblad, Michalek, Foligno, 2011 1st...Silverberg, Butler.

A team with that shouldn't have a problem moving forward and comfortably making the playoffs...certainly if a starting G was added. Is Spezza going to remain healthy?
i guess it comes down to how many teams can afford the cap space, how many draft picks are you willing to give up and where Parise would want to play.

i think its the best strategy to build around spezza like mcguire said today

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02-01-2011, 09:23 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
So you're mad at him for being honest? Alfie did shoot it at Niedermayer on purpose.
It's called a "buzzer-beater" champ, and it happens all the time.
You can see Alfie look up at the clock, then try to find the puck in his skates, then take a slap-shot. Niedermayer positioned himself between the puck and the net like any good defenseman would. Being the overly dramatic person that he is, Maguire chose to vilify the player he so frequently praised, since- in this instance- his bread was buttered by an American network.
And I'm not mad- I'm bitter. PM would talk at length about Alfredsson as a human being, a class player and professional- then this happens, and not only does he not give Alf the benefit of a doubt- he throws him under the bus. That's two-faced. That's Pierre Maguire.

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02-01-2011, 09:26 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
It's called a "buzzer-beater" champ, and it happens all the time.
You can see Alfie look up at the clock, then try to find the puck in his skates, then take a slap-shot. Niedermayer positioned himself between the puck and the net like any good defenseman would. Being the overly dramatic person that he is, Maguire chose to vilify the player he so frequently praised, since- in this instance- his bread was buttered by an American network.
And I'm not mad- I'm bitter. PM would talk at length about Alfredsson as a human being, a class player and professional- then this happens, and not only does he not give Alf the benefit of a doubt- he throws him under the bus. That's two-faced. That's Pierre Maguire.
So why did the Ducks took a run at Aflie afterwards? It's quite obvious he took the shot at him.

Quote:
i think its the best strategy to build around spezza like mcguire said today
It's the only strategy since the contract is un-movable (Unless you trade him against Wade Redden or Scott Gomez).

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02-01-2011, 09:32 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post

It's the only strategy since the contract is un-movable (Unless you trade him against Wade Redden or Scott Gomez).
not necessarily it seems as if murray was building from the net out with his acquisitions and drafting... dont get me wrong this isn't a bad thing

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02-01-2011, 09:35 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Domenator19 View Post
i guess it comes down to how many teams can afford the cap space, how many draft picks are you willing to give up and where Parise would want to play.

i think its the best strategy to build around spezza like mcguire said today
Yeah, and Spezza played his 7 million dollar hockey when his linemates were better hockey players then he was. Well, Parise is much better all-around than Spezza is. You want a Captain when Alfie's done? Parise.

Giving up four 1st rounders is a major risk. Like I said, what if Spezza can't stay healthy? WHO do we end up drafting in the 1st this year? But if someone wants to offer sheet Parise it's going to cost upwards 7-8 million annually...maybe more.

I think we may actually be one of the few teams that it makes sense to consider. You aren't going to find a better player to surround Spezza with around the league...or realistically in the draft for the next 4 years. If we had a goalie, I'd be very interested. We have the space, we have the ability to use that space.

Few teams would need this guy as much as we do...depends what we do at the deadline though. But I expect we'd be interested if it became obvious he isn't signing back in NJ.

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02-01-2011, 09:37 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
So why did the Ducks took a run at Aflie afterwards? It's quite obvious he took the shot at him.
.
It marked the first time ever that a team got mad over something reasonable.

Regardless, I've always accepted Alfie shot the puck at him....I do however realize there's a chance he was shooting for the net, didn't look like it though. But also, I don't really care anymore.

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02-01-2011, 09:38 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domenator19 View Post
he's on right now i thought it was very interesting the strategy Pierre suggested for the Senators

if Ottawa were to get a lottery draft pick and it is used right. they should put an offer sheet for Zack Parise because they must build around Spezza...
i think it is fair... what do you guys think
1) The logic behind building around Spezza is sound because...well, we're stuck with him, so we may as well try to make that work in our favour.
2) Parise will have a lot of suitors, and NJ will be hard-pressed to match unless they can unload some of their current contracts. They have 14 signed for next year with just under $10mil in cap-space for the rest- according to capgeek.com

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02-01-2011, 09:41 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Few teams would need this guy as much as we do...depends what we do at the deadline though. But I expect we'd be interested if it became obvious he isn't signing back in NJ.

It's a move that makes perfect sense for a team like the Kings. For them, he is THE missing piece. We have way too many holes to even think about doing something like that.

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02-01-2011, 09:42 AM
  #109
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[QUOTE=Suiteness;30578644]So why did the Ducks took a run at Aflie afterwards? It's quite obvious he took the shot at him.

The Ducks were taking runs at everybody- all year long. If you watched the play with your eyes instead of your ears, you can see that he was shooting at the net. Furthermore, if you've watched Daniel Alfredsson over his career, you would know that he's not "that guy".

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02-01-2011, 09:49 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
It's a move that makes perfect sense for a team like the Kings. For them, he is THE missing piece. We have way too many holes to even think about doing something like that.
Yeah, they might even be able to make a pitch for him trade wise and avoid the offer sheet bidding war.

Bernier, Schenn, Toffoli, Hickey, Voynov, Simmonds (RFA), 1sts, 2nds

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02-01-2011, 10:02 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Yeah, and Spezza played his 7 million dollar hockey when his linemates were better hockey players then he was. Well, Parise is much better all-around than Spezza is. You want a Captain when Alfie's done? Parise.

Giving up four 1st rounders is a major risk. Like I said, what if Spezza can't stay healthy? WHO do we end up drafting in the 1st this year? But if someone wants to offer sheet Parise it's going to cost upwards 7-8 million annually...maybe more.

I think we may actually be one of the few teams that it makes sense to consider. You aren't going to find a better player to surround Spezza with around the league...or realistically in the draft for the next 4 years. If we had a goalie, I'd be very interested. We have the space, we have the ability to use that space.

Few teams would need this guy as much as we do...depends what we do at the deadline though. But I expect we'd be interested if it became obvious he isn't signing back in NJ.
The difference is that it's not going to hurt us to put an offer in for less than the 4 draft picks required. Something between 6.5 and 7.5 IIRC will only cost us 2 1st rounders, a 2nd and a 3rd. That's not a bad price to pay, and considering Jersey's situation and the fact that Parise supposedly isn't happy there anyway...I'd say he takes the chance on a different team. Whether he gets picked up by us or another team doesn't hurt us anyway. The offer is there. We can work on something else when we find out whether or not he does make it over here.

I don't get all the hate on Spezza. Heatly and Alfredsson are not better than he is (maybe Alfredsson is a better all-around player.) His contract is good if we can actually surround him with decent players so that he isn't the only offensive threat we have (ie. Parise.)

This year's draft coupled with Parise and the FA market this year should give us a shot at the playoffs next year if all goes well.

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02-01-2011, 10:07 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I don't get all the hate on Spezza. Heatly and Alfredsson are not better than he is (maybe Alfredsson is a better all-around player.) His contract is good if we can actually surround him with decent players so that he isn't the only offensive threat we have (ie. Parise.)
That has nothing to do with hate. In those days (Pizza line) Alfie was the best player in the NHL.

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02-01-2011, 10:11 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post

I don't get all the hate on Spezza. Heatly and Alfredsson are not better than he is (maybe Alfredsson is a better all-around player.) His contract is good if we can actually surround him with decent players so that he isn't the only offensive threat we have (ie. Parise.)

This year's draft coupled with Parise and the FA market this year should give us a shot at the playoffs next year if all goes well.
There wasn't any hate on Spezza. Saying 3-4 years ago that Heatley and Alfie were better hockey players than he was isn't hate...it's the way I see it, especially Alfredsson. His contract is fine if he puts up 90-100 points...I'd encourage a bold move to get that out of him.

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02-01-2011, 10:30 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
Dumb. Devils will match any offer and if they don't, I figure we would have to offer 7 million+ which would cost us 4 first round picks. A really dumb move for a team that should be rebuilding.
I 100% support this course of action.
I believe the cost for 7+ is 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd.

the only question i have is about the timing. I would do this if we are able to keep this year's 1st, if not, then no.

A rough picture:
(Kelly is the one guy is wasnt sure where to put, id keep him ahead of a bunch of guys, but max it would cost is $1 million more than the total below since you are taking out a 1 million player to put in a 2 million player)

Parise Spezza Michalek
2011 1st Fisher Alfie
Foligno Regin Butler
Smith Winchester Shannon/Neil

Cowen, Karlsson, Rundblad, Gonchar, Carkner, Kuba, Campoli, Lee

?, Elliot

Total cost $51.1 million.
We have lots of youth, 2 young legitimate top line talents; 3 or 4 legitimate 2 line talent; the bottom 6 is young and solid and our defence future looks great.

all of that and we still have almost 9 million to find a really good UFA goalie and 4 or 5 million to spare. Lots of money left for raises, not oo mention Kuba and the buyouts come off the books at the end of next year. Freeing up almost 5 million etcetc.

this would be about the perfect scenario IMO. People are under the mistaken impression that having 2 7 million players is a problem. that's not what hamstrings an org especially in todays world. if elite top line players are available it is worth every penny of 7 million. these players are very difficult to get in the NHL world these days.
Not having at least 2 top line talents assures you will never go anywhere.
lets say Spezza is overpaid by a 1.5 million and Parise maybe by a million. Can anyone seriously say the that 2.5 million is poorly spent? i would dump anyone one the roster making 2-3 million (probably out of the bottom 6 playing 16-18 min game) replace them with an ELC or cheap vet in order to get someone like Parise in the lineup playing 2-23 minutes/game.

its really a no brainer. ive said this any number of times in other threads.
steps back to contender status:

1. Offer sheet for high end player (parise is the perfect player for us)
2. High end 1st round pick this year (another high end forward from the lottery)
3. Sign a goalie (vokoun)
4. UFA signing either this year or next year (high end forward or at least high end 2nd liner) i like Penner as an UFA the end of next year.

We will never miss those picks we dealt for Parise, we'll be too busy contending for a Cup.

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02-01-2011, 11:09 AM
  #115
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Flawed offer sheet logic

Some people think that all the Sens have to do is waive an offer sheet at players and they will sign it. What would possess Parise to sign an offer sheet from Ottawa? The higher taxes? The possibility of a long rebuild? Beaver tails?

The Parise offer sheet is a fantasy - it will never happen because he has no intention of coming to this market. Any sign and trade will never happen because any contract he signs will have a NTC.

Parise is not a realistic possibility in Ottawa - give it up it's not happening.

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02-01-2011, 11:29 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
Some people think that all the Sens have to do is waive an offer sheet at players and they will sign it. What would possess Parise to sign an offer sheet from Ottawa? The higher taxes? The possibility of a long rebuild? Beaver tails?

The Parise offer sheet is a fantasy - it will never happen because he has no intention of coming to this market. Any sign and trade will never happen because any contract he signs will have a NTC.

Parise is not a realistic possibility in Ottawa - give it up it's not happening.

yes, that's exactly what i thought. i thought we'd just waive it in his face and make him do it.
hey you know what's cool about this site and this thread in particular? you can speculate, hypothesize, fantasize and plot pretend strategy for your own entertainment purposes.

Fortunately we had you here to set us all straight, you participation and contribution is appreciated and frankly invaluable. i mean who would have thought any of this was unlikely if it weren't for you, Captain Obvious.

Feel free to post your exciting plan for the Sens. ill give you a head start:
1. Give up
2. Taget C level players in hopes they have also given up and will consent to play out the string in Ottawa
3. Tade the lottery pick since this player will likely hold out after his ELC expires and why would he want to be in ottawa.
4. see if we can help out cooler franchises by dealing away anyone interesting
5. Fold franchise

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02-01-2011, 11:38 AM
  #117
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today:

- devils are trapping again. Not fun to watch.
- will be tough to score tonight.
- lemaire will not come back (lemaire's words)
- big issue in NJ is how to sign parise. No truth to rumors he WANTS to leave NJ. Signed with meehan/newport sports management, so could lead to hardballing in the negotiations. Pierre doesnt know if they'll be able to do it because of kovalchuk. Offersheet is possible, trade more likely - for 3 major components. If he's available on july 1st, offersheet him. Use 1st well, build around spezza, and add this winger for spezza.
- brodeur wants to stay, wont be traded, probably back next year.
- volchenkov deal wouldve been bad in ottawa, good job letting him go. Unfortunately gonchar hasnt worked out. Might be able to trade gonchar to a 'desperate' team.
- again mentions the can-russia olympic game and how all the russians from that game have been worse since. Thinks they are all effected mentally.

- Colin Greening up, good thing that the sens are finding out what they have in their organization.
- Doesnt think the treatment of lehner is going to hurt him.



- Best all-star weekend ever.
- skills event needs to be worked out, some issues there.
- on kessel being last, may change the system for the past few picks next year.
- tough weekend for toronto: kessel last, ron wilson least desireable coach to play for, toronto on the list of least desireable teams to play for.
- kessel has 19 goals, which is good, but also -19. Doesnt know where to go in defensive coverage.

- cody hodgeson debut, if his back is ok, he'll be a big time player. If not, his career may not get off the ground.
- 10 weeks for edler, if salo plays well, gillis doesnt need to add a dman. Pierre still thinks they need another dman to make a serious run.


- Pegula in buffalo, great guy, very wealthy, larry quinn already out in buffalo.

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02-01-2011, 11:48 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
hey you know what's cool about this site and this thread in particular? you can speculate, hypothesize, fantasize and plot pretend strategy for your own entertainment purposes.
this...

in response to your previous post, don't you think it will be a little risky or the Sens to give up four first rounders though...

i like the idea of going after Parise and am all for it.. but there has to be a maximum price. i'd be willing to give 2 first rounders but even that's a gamble for me.

this next part is pure speculation!

CAN ottawa give Parise a one year contract with a monetary value that will be enough to force the devils to let him go lets say 5 million (1 1st, 2nd and 3rd) and explain to him that if he wants to be on a winning team he'll accept this one year deal to get away from New Jersey while allowing us to be competitive for years. therefore we would offer a performance bonus for the year which he will surely achieve (like games played or 20 goals). once the year is over we will give him his value


all in all thinking about it now as a sens fan i would give 4 first rounders to get Parise if this is what it takes for the Sens to be contenders again. this feels like such a ****** year that the highlight of our season will be watching the entry draft in June!

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02-01-2011, 11:48 AM
  #119
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Thanks for the update of what Pierre had to say today....



Really not a fan of trying to acquire Parise and even less impressed by the thoughts of an offer sheet to him. Do we really risk doing a Leafs and giving up top picks for a winger...

No thanks. Let's do the rebuild properly...

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02-01-2011, 11:50 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
today:
- big issue in NJ is how to sign parise. No truth to rumors he WANTS to leave NJ.
Where did that come from anyways? Eklnud?


Quote:
doesnt know if they'll be able to do it because of kovalchuk.
This is also dumb. The Kovaluchuk cap hit is 6.6 million. How is that crippling the team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domenator19 View Post
all in all thinking about it now as a sens fan i would give 4 first rounders to get Parise if this is what it takes for the Sens to be contenders again. this feels like such a ****** year that the highlight of our season will be watching the entry draft in June!
This is exactly the type of patchwork mentality that must be avoided and will sink this team even more in the long run. THIS TEAM IS NOT ONE PLAYER AWAY. Going all-in on one guy is simply counter-productive at this point.

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02-01-2011, 12:00 PM
  #121
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my thoughts on the whole parise thing:


devils have 9M in cap space for 5 players + parise. If you fill those 5 spots with NHL minimum players you're down 2.75 (and looking at the ELC players they have, between 3M and 3.5M seems more realistic.)

so now you have 5.5M to sign parise. That being said...
- the cap can and will go up, giving the devs closer to 6.5M in space.
- they can exceed the cap in the offseason, so worst case scenario they match an offersheet and then figure it out later. Basically, unless you're willing to give up 4 first round picks, dont bother.



If I look at the devils, there are a few obvious things they'll try to do. They'll try to trade rolston obviously, but that will be hard (5M, 35+, not that good), though he is UFA next year so that might open some hope. If they cant do that, there are three other guys that could be on the market: Zubrus, Clarkson, and Salvador.


If i'm the sens, i target clarkson at a discount out of this whole mess, kind of like how atlanta poached buff last year. Clarkson projects to be a 20 goal scoring gritty winger. 2.66 is a decent price for him, and it allows us to trade neil at some point if the right offer comes along.

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02-01-2011, 12:02 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
Where did that come from anyways? Eklnud?




This is also dumb. The Kovaluchuk cap hit is 6.6 million. How is that crippling the team?



This is exactly the type of patchwork mentality that must be avoided and will sink this team even more in the long run. THIS TEAM IS NOT ONE PLAYER AWAY. Going all-in on one guy is simply counter-productive at this point.
exactly, the quick fix mentality slides into the forefront once again. People have to prevent the tried and proven to fail formula from resurfacing. Signing Parise smells so badly of Leafs giving up picks and the picks turning out to be lottery picks all in the vein to win now. This team will not be a contender with Parise and would be an injury or two as is customary from finishing in the lottery next year even with Parise and watching the NJD rebuild into a powerhouse compliments of our picks and their own.

Patience is the key now.


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02-01-2011, 12:03 PM
  #123
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Is Clarkson better equal or inferior than Foligno?

because even he was supposed to score 20 goals

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02-01-2011, 12:09 PM
  #124
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I wouldnt give up 4 1st but i would give up 2 firsts, the 2nd and a 3rd. no problem.
it has nothing to do with being 1 player away, its the timing. it has everything to do with signing an elite scorer with a tremendous 2 way game, and having him part of our longterm plans.

With Parise, Spezza, lottery pick this year, Michalek, Fisher, (Alfie maybe even on the 3rd line next year or year after) top 6 UFA this year or next, along with our defence and a good goalie we are no longer rebuilding. we are contending.

its 1-2 year plan, the only really unlikely part is the Parise part, all the other elements are hardly a stretch at all.
With the players we move this deadline etc, we will certainly recoup the 2nd and 3rd picks, possibly a 1st.
and to whomever used the Kessel comparsion; its a terrible comparable. yes they are both wingers, but they are both wingers in the way the Alfie in his prime and Kessel are wingers.
Do you consider them the same? Of course not. Nor do the Leafs have a lottery pick coming to them this summer, or a high end group of talented defencemen and a #1 center.

night and day.

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02-01-2011, 12:15 PM
  #125
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Sens fans...

The reason we are looked at as a joke fanbase is because (in part) of people that make outrageous claims about our players.

Alfredsson DID shoot the puck at Niedermayer's bad ankle.
Alfredsson hit on Tucker would have been called a penalty 90% of the time if not more. In any case the refs made up for it when Dummy launched himself into the dasher in game 6 drawing the Persson major.

Havlat was a dirty SOB that carried his stick high and kicked people on more than one occasion.

Arvedson had his stick jammed in to Domi's junk moments before Domi "attacked a non fighter unprovoked"

McEachern was the King of the slew foot.

Quit trying to convince the world that our players are angels that are above these kinds of acts. They aren't.

Take ownership.

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