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Old
01-27-2011, 08:46 AM
  #1
Ke11y96
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Still Want a First Line Center??

How do they make this work, and I'm not asking this question based on cap figures. I would like to know without trading away Stepan, Anisimov, or Boyle how people see it fitting. I'm looking a little further down then just for the rest of this season. Our three centers currently have all established they are at least 2nd and 3rd line centers currently in their careers. None of them imo will settle for 4th line duty and out of the three Boyle would be the first to go to the 4th line, yet how could he be put there with a season of 25-30 goals and 10-15 assists..Now some argue that Boyle could be put on the wing yet what wing spot is open? Just look at the solidified spots on this team currently and that shouldn't change by years end...

Right Wing - Gaborik, Callahan, Zuccarello, Prust

Center - Stepan, Anisimov, Boyle

Left Wing - Dubinsky, Wolski, and one of Kreider, Hagelin, Grachev will be here next year for 3rd line duty.

Defense - Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, Sauer, McDonagh...

So say we do catch a huge break and Richards is ours come July 1st, as great a depth down the middle that makes us how do you possibly divvy up that ice time? 15 minutes a line per game? Or would you then package one of our 3 young centers to acquire a missing piece..? Out of the 3 I would move Anisimov only because Stepan has more promise and Boyle has meant far too much to move. So would you move Anisimov + to get say Brent Burns? giving us..

Dubinsky - Richards - Gaborik
Wolski - Stepan - MZA
Kreider/Hagelin/Grachev - Boyle - Callahan
Fedotenko - Newbury - Prust

Staal - Burns
Del Zotto - Girardi
McDonagh - Sauer

Or given that league wide we are 8th best PK, 7th in Wins, 9th in points, 5th in Goals Against, 14th Goals For..That they forget about acquiring a #1 center and go for that defenseman on the right side like a Burns, Seabrook, Erik Johnson, and everyones dream Shea Weber...

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01-27-2011, 08:47 AM
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Yes.

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01-27-2011, 08:48 AM
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Yes.

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01-27-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yes.
Yes to keeping what we got and go focus on the defense? or yes to getting richards and moving anisimov? If its yes to merely the thread title how do you see it shaking out? does signing Richards put us in the position to move either Anisimov or Boyle?


Last edited by Ke11y96: 01-27-2011 at 08:51 AM. Reason: added a question
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01-27-2011, 08:54 AM
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your team going into the season should be 4 lines deep...as we've learned, way too well this year, injuries are gonna happen and if you are 4 lines deep then you have 3rd and 4th liners that can be called on to step up.

yeah if everyone is healthy it might be hard to find ice time, but thats a good problem to have...boyle would still get his ice time on the pk, possibly pp, some night torts might use his line to check the other teams top line meaning lots of ice time, etc.

and for a team that plays such a balls to the wall style, the depth could be used to help keep them fresh...during rough stretches of the schedule, back-to-back, 3 in 4 nights, etc. you wouldn't have to worry about riding the hot line one night cause the next you could give them a bit of a breather while one of the other lines gets more ice time.

boyle in no way shape or form deserves to be demoted back to the 4th line...but i'd remove the labels of '1st line', '4th line' etc. and just look at it as 4 solid lines that together make use a pretty good team on paper

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01-27-2011, 08:56 AM
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add if we got richards, he plays the point on the pp...so boyle could get pp time up front between brad's normal wingers

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01-27-2011, 08:57 AM
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Absolutely.

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01-27-2011, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ke11y96 View Post
Yes to keeping what we got and go focus on the defense? or yes to getting richards and moving anisimov? If its yes to merely the thread title how do you see it shaking out? does signing Richards put us in the position to move either Anisimov or Boyle?
Yes to the title.

I don't do anything until seasons end, and target Richards if he hits free agency. With a Drury buyout, the numbers can work. Getting Richards allows the Rangers to move either AA or Boyle to LW.

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01-27-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ke11y96 View Post
How do they make this work, and I'm not asking this question based on cap figures. I would like to know without trading away Stepan, Anisimov, or Boyle how people see it fitting. I'm looking a little further down then just for the rest of this season. Our three centers currently have all established they are at least 2nd and 3rd line centers currently in their careers. None of them imo will settle for 4th line duty and out of the three Boyle would be the first to go to the 4th line, yet how could he be put there with a season of 25-30 goals and 10-15 assists..Now some argue that Boyle could be put on the wing yet what wing spot is open? Just look at the solidified spots on this team currently and that shouldn't change by years end...

Right Wing - Gaborik, Callahan, Zuccarello, Prust

Center - Stepan, Anisimov, Boyle

Left Wing - Dubinsky, Wolski, and one of Kreider, Hagelin, Grachev will be here next year for 3rd line duty.

Defense - Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, Sauer, McDonagh...

So say we do catch a huge break and Richards is ours come July 1st, as great a depth down the middle that makes us how do you possibly divvy up that ice time? 15 minutes a line per game? Or would you then package one of our 3 young centers to acquire a missing piece..? Out of the 3 I would move Anisimov only because Stepan has more promise and Boyle has meant far too much to move. So would you move Anisimov + to get say Brent Burns? giving us..

Dubinsky - Richards - Gaborik
Wolski - Stepan - MZA
Kreider/Hagelin/Grachev - Boyle - Callahan
Fedotenko - Newbury - Prust

Staal - Burns
Del Zotto - Girardi
McDonagh - Sauer

Or given that league wide we are 8th best PK, 7th in Wins, 9th in points, 5th in Goals Against, 14th Goals For..That they forget about acquiring a #1 center and go for that defenseman on the right side like a Burns, Seabrook, Erik Johnson, and everyones dream Shea Weber...
So, we shouldnt go after a 1st line center because we have a bunch of 2nd/3rd line ones? Doesnt make much sense. Stepan, Anisimov, and Boyle have had nice seasons, but to assume that any one of them evolves into a true 1C anytime soon is a huge stretch.

A lot of things can happen between now and next season, but I think the most likely move would be Boyle to the wing. He's been great this year, but really doesnt possess much in terms of playmaking skills - I think a move to the wing would enhance his game even more.

How would we make room for that move? Simple, I think your bolded part above is a HUGE assumption and most likely inaccurate

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01-27-2011, 09:07 AM
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Don't get me wrong, as I love both of these players, but you don't turn down a chance to get a real first line center because it displaces boyle or anisimov

Honestly, deciding where to put boyle or any other 3rd liner in the event of signing a real center is a problem I'd love to have

Edit: also, I'm very excited about our youths potential too, but we can't take it as a given, we have to consider the possibility that they might not get better....what if stepan doesn't get stronger faster or.more defensively aware? What if aa never gets consistent or stronger on his skates? What if this season really was a fluke for boyle?

That stuff has to be considered

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01-27-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yes to the title.

I don't do anything until seasons end, and target Richards if he hits free agency. With a Drury buyout, the numbers can work. Getting Richards allows the Rangers to move either AA or Boyle to LW.
Yeah I figure the numbers will work but see my issue is the solution you've offered is with three great lw prospects (Kreider, Hagelin, & Grachev) all relatively close to being ready for 3rd line duty come next season I don't see how you move one of Anisimov or Boyle to wing..Remember think longevity on contracts that will be in the lineup...for example say we sign Richards to a 5 year deal..and all our important RFA's get 3 years or more..

Dubinsky(3+) - Richards(5) - Gaborik (3)
Wolski(1) - Stepan (2) - MZA (1)
Boyle(3+) - Anisimov(3+) - Callahan(3+)
XXXXX - Newbury - Prust(1)

Just to focus on the left side for example if none of Kreider, Hagelin, or Grachev are ready next season then fine you have no problem and depth to fill in if one of those guys get injured..However Wolski who is a capable 60 pt winger will only be 25 when he becomes an RFA who if he plays to his potential wouldn't be released so he'd be back, and if he signs a minimum 1-2 year deal that means we've blocked Kreider, Hagelin, and Grachev from cracking the lineup for 3 years or more...and personally I don't see any of the three needing 3 or more years to be ready for at least 3rd line NHL duty. Thats why i'm so curious to see how this all works out because when a guy signs a contract and you have him in a certain position thats a position you expect them to fill for the duration of their contract..

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01-27-2011, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ke11y96 View Post
Yeah I figure the numbers will work but see my issue is the solution you've offered is with three great lw prospects (Kreider, Hagelin, & Grachev) all relatively close to being ready for 3rd line duty come next season I don't see how you move one of Anisimov or Boyle to wing..Remember think longevity on contracts that will be in the lineup...for example say we sign Richards to a 5 year deal..and all our important RFA's get 3 years or more..

Dubinsky(3+) - Richards(5) - Gaborik (3)
Wolski(1) - Stepan (2) - MZA (1)
Boyle(3+) - Anisimov(3+) - Callahan(3+)
XXXXX - Newbury - Prust(1)

Just to focus on the left side for example if none of Kreider, Hagelin, or Grachev are ready next season then fine you have no problem and depth to fill in if one of those guys get injured..However Wolski who is a capable 60 pt winger will only be 25 when he becomes an RFA who if he plays to his potential wouldn't be released so he'd be back, and if he signs a minimum 1-2 year deal that means we've blocked Kreider, Hagelin, and Grachev from cracking the lineup for 3 years or more...and personally I don't see any of the three needing 3 or more years to be ready for at least 3rd line NHL duty. Thats why i'm so curious to see how this all works out because when a guy signs a contract and you have him in a certain position thats a position you expect them to fill for the duration of their contract..
Neither Grachev nor Hagelin precludes me from targeting Richards. If Kreider is ready, Tortorella will find a spot for him.

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01-27-2011, 09:12 AM
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No.

Stepan, Anisimov, Boyle, EC, and Drury next season. We have Centers. Continue developing the young guys. Drury, Avery, and EC are all off the books after next season. 10M'ish in cap space. Team can have a different need by that time. Steps will be entering his third season, and AA his fourth. They'll be very serviceable as our 1/2 by that time.

And forget about Brad Richards. He'll be 31 in May. We'll be bidding against numerous teams. Who's ready to commit to a 7++ year contract, with a full NMC? We have a number of RFA's that need to be re-signed, an unavoidable 6.5M contract that'll pop up in the off-season, and Drury's 7M contract that won't be moved. Even if he's bought out, we're still short of the funds necessary to absorb Richards' contract.

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01-27-2011, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So, we shouldnt go after a 1st line center because we have a bunch of 2nd/3rd line ones? Doesnt make much sense. Stepan, Anisimov, and Boyle have had nice seasons, but to assume that any one of them evolves into a true 1C anytime soon is a huge stretch.

A lot of things can happen between now and next season, but I think the most likely move would be Boyle to the wing. He's been great this year, but really doesnt possess much in terms of playmaking skills - I think a move to the wing would enhance his game even more.

How would we make room for that move? Simple, I think your bolded part above is a HUGE assumption and most likely inaccurate
Believe me I'm not condoning not getting a 1st line center I'm just curious as to everyones take on this youth movement yet bringing in the missing pieces. Stepan to me still will evolve into a #1 center but not for a couple years.

You could be right a move to wing could turn him into a consistent 25-30 goal winger but I dont think thats where Torts would use him..This guy played defense in college he's done well at the center position and to have a center that can help the defense out by being that big body down low and be able to help out from both standpoints from playing center and defense I just think he stays as a center. But to each his own...

I'm not trying to call shots here but since the early last spring I was saying Stepan would make it and he did...The reason I'm counting one of those forwards in is because the NYR's are still pressing on with their youth movement and maybe just a hunch, and yes it is sure safer to say they won't make a roster spot but I believe one of the 3 do...however even if one of them do not how do you fit one of the 3 in next year or the year after?

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01-27-2011, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post

Edit: also, I'm very excited about our youths potential too, but we can't take it as a given, we have to consider the possibility that they might not get better....what if stepan doesn't get stronger faster or.more defensively aware? What if aa never gets consistent or stronger on his skates? What if this season really was a fluke for boyle?

That stuff has to be considered
Excellent point believe I'm still thinking they should strike while like you said some of these guys look better than they truly are...if thats the case...

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01-27-2011, 09:33 AM
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I wouldn't assume that Wolski will be here long term either. I like what he's added to the team so far, but he's worn out his welcome in 2 places already.

If we get Richards and someone ends up without a spot, then they'll either be in Hartford or traded. None of the players mentioned are currently as good as Richards, nor do any of them project to be, though Stepan and Kreider could potentially get close.

In any case, it's a good problem to have. If it happens, we'll deal with it.

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01-27-2011, 09:41 AM
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I wouldn't assume that Wolski will be here long term either. I like what he's added to the team so far, but he's worn out his welcome in 2 places already.

If we get Richards and someone ends up without a spot, then they'll either be in Hartford or traded. None of the players mentioned are currently as good as Richards, nor do any of them project to be, though Stepan and Kreider could potentially get close.

In any case, it's a good problem to have. If it happens, we'll deal with it.
Boyle wore out his welcome in LA. Former 1st round pick moved for a measly 3rd rounder.

Eminger did the same, only a dozen more times. He was traded for the human punching bag, yet has been very solid here.

I think Wolski's staying here. You can nitpick all you want about his game, but he's been solid. Unless we witness a serious lull in his game, he's a keeper.

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01-27-2011, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
No.

Stepan, Anisimov, Boyle, EC, and Drury next season. We have Centers. Continue developing the young guys. Drury, Avery, and EC are all off the books after next season. 10M'ish in cap space. Team can have a different need by that time. Steps will be entering his third season, and AA his fourth. They'll be very serviceable as our 1/2 by that time.

And forget about Brad Richards. He'll be 31 in May. We'll be bidding against numerous teams. Who's ready to commit to a 7++ year contract, with a full NMC? We have a number of RFA's that need to be re-signed, an unavoidable 6.5M contract that'll pop up in the off-season, and Drury's 7M contract that won't be moved. Even if he's bought out, we're still short of the funds necessary to absorb Richards' contract.
Quote:
Come July 1, you can bet they'll be among those vying for Brad Richards if he hasn't signed an extension with Dallas. And the Rangers will be high on Richards' list in part because of the old Tampa Bay /Torts connections. But that's for down the road.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-rangers-moves

Quote:
I was told this week that the Toronto Maple Leafs are no longer among the top teams on Richards' wish list come July 1. From talking to different people around the league and connecting the dots, I believe his most desirable destinations are Dallas (staying put), the New York Rangers (he won a Cup with coach John Tortorella), Tampa Bay (back to his roots) and the Los Angeles Kings (team on the rise). Never say never in terms of Toronto, because you never know how much money talks come July 1, but I get the sense the Leafs aren't on the radar for Richards and his agent, Pat Morris of Newport Sports.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...caps-struggles

If Richards does not re-sign with the Stars,he will be a Ranger. Pierre LeBrun reported the Richards list. Not that Bob guy. TB will have no money remaining after paying Stamkos. LA? Lombardi won't pay him. Richards wants to play for a stable ownership after the new TB owners(Oren Koules and Len Barrie)forced him to waive his NMC. Dallas is for sale and the team is being run by the banks. They hired Tony Tavares as an interim team president indicating the team won't be sold in the near future. They could offer Richards a contract but he has concerns about the ownership situation. Richards will be taking a pay cut from his $7.8M salary whether he stays in Dallas or leaves. He got the 20% max after the 05-06 season. Richards is not getting that type of cash. Richards will need to take less to play for the Rangers. If you call $6.5M per less.

I have the same concerns about Richards turning 31 but I also remember what Mark Messier did for the Rangers. He turned 31 in his first season as a Ranger and he changed the entire team. Richards is not Messier but he is still a quality player.

Torts has discussed needing to add a piece or two to go along with the Rangers core players. Torts has major say in personnel. The Rangers have retained all of the players he wanted to keep and dumped the players he didn't want(Wade Redden).

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01-27-2011, 09:44 AM
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Yes.
agreed but not this year. Go for Richards next yr and if they can get him they would have to move Boyle to LW even though he is doing killer as a C right now

Dubinsky, Richards, Gaborik
Wolski, Stepan, Zuccarello
Boyle, Anisimov, Callahan
Boogaard, Avery, Prust.........I would move EC to save on cap space and get a cheap 500K 4th line C. I don't see anyone in the minors that fits this role as most of the talent are wingers


Last edited by Vitto79: 01-27-2011 at 09:50 AM.
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01-27-2011, 09:45 AM
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Yes, for next season. We should sell at the deadline (to free up cap space for next year) and them make a run at Richards. If he's not available, then think about trading for a top line center. I think Stepan would be great on the second line at this point in his career and Anisimov is a 3rd line center. So, filling that hole should be our biggest priority; IN THE OFF SEASON when we can use money and not assets to make an acquisition.

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01-27-2011, 09:52 AM
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This team is one player away from being a top contender. That one player is richards.

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01-27-2011, 09:54 AM
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Its very simple. Boyle and Richards have both played wing in their careers. If push comes to shove they can play wing. Problem solved.

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01-27-2011, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-rangers-moves



http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...caps-struggles

If Richards does not re-sign with the Stars,he will be a Ranger. Pierre LeBrun reported the Richards list. Not that Bob guy. TB will have no money remaining after paying Stamkos. LA? Lombardi won't pay him. Richards wants to play for a stable ownership after the new TB owners(Oren Koules and Len Barrie)forced him to waive his NMC. Dallas is for sale and the team is being run by the banks. They hired Tony Tavares as an interim team president indicating the team won't be sold in the near future. They could offer Richards a contract but he has concerns about the ownership situation. Richards will be taking a pay cut from his $7.8M salary whether he stays in Dallas or leaves. He got the 20% max after the 05-06 season. Richards is not getting that type of cash. Richards will need to take less to play for the Rangers. If you call $6.5M per less.

I have the same concerns about Richards turning 31 but I also remember what Mark Messier did for the Rangers. He turned 31 in his first season as a Ranger and he changed the entire team. Richards is not Messier but he is still a quality player.

Torts has discussed needing to add a piece or two to go along with the Rangers core players. Torts has major say in personnel. The Rangers have retained all of the players he wanted to keep and dumped the players he didn't want(Wade Redden).
He's definitely a quality player, but how much can you expect out of him from here on out? I wouldn't want to commit to anything over 4 years, and we both know that's not happening. I'd stretch to 5 if it meant less $$$ per year. Personally, I'd avoid most monsterous contracts unless that player is entering his prime.

Drury's not that much older than Richards; He has about 150 games on him. We'll be investing a lot of money towards a player who's ultimately going to start declining in the near future. Unlike Drury, he's productive offensively, so that money is going towards something legitimate, but I feel like we'll be regretting it.

I don't see how we can afford Richards w/o moving most, or all of Drury's contract.

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01-27-2011, 10:00 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-rangers-moves



http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...caps-struggles

If Richards does not re-sign with the Stars,he will be a Ranger. Pierre LeBrun reported the Richards list. Not that Bob guy. TB will have no money remaining after paying Stamkos. LA? Lombardi won't pay him. Richards wants to play for a stable ownership after the new TB owners(Oren Koules and Len Barrie)forced him to waive his NMC. Dallas is for sale and the team is being run by the banks. They hired Tony Tavares as an interim team president indicating the team won't be sold in the near future. They could offer Richards a contract but he has concerns about the ownership situation. Richards will be taking a pay cut from his $7.8M salary whether he stays in Dallas or leaves. He got the 20% max after the 05-06 season. Richards is not getting that type of cash. Richards will need to take less to play for the Rangers. If you call $6.5M per less.

I have the same concerns about Richards turning 31 but I also remember what Mark Messier did for the Rangers. He turned 31 in his first season as a Ranger and he changed the entire team. Richards is not Messier but he is still a quality player.

Torts has discussed needing to add a piece or two to go along with the Rangers core players. Torts has major say in personnel. The Rangers have retained all of the players he wanted to keep and dumped the players he didn't want(Wade Redden).
Thanks RangerBoy thats all good stuff to hear! Keep it up man!

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01-27-2011, 10:05 AM
  #25
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I'm not advocating either side here, but are some of you serious? 31 years old is not on the decline. Nor will a player like Richards be on the decline in 5 years.

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