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Old
01-27-2011, 11:40 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
What's not to understand.

Ethan Werek is going to be in the NHL very soon. Possibly as soon as next season.

He's a center.

I CLEARLY wrote, 3rd-4th line.

I was humoring the conversation of the thread by suggesting looking elsewhere then the 7+ million dollar options such as Richards.
This is a conversation about a #1C, the most pressing need for this team, by far.

And you feel the need to bring up Ethan Werek and Stephen Weiss - I just dont get it.

I mean, I get your slobbering love affair with Ranger prospects and younger players in general, but at what point does importing young players into the lineup become awfully redundant considering none of them possess top-shelf/blue chip ceilings?

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01-27-2011, 11:42 AM
  #52
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This team has overachieved and been a pleasure to watch. That said, we can't let that overshadow the fact that there is a still big holes. Even more, those holes are the ones that are often the hardest to fill.

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01-27-2011, 11:47 AM
  #53
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A true 1st line center allows the rest of our guys to play in roles that are better fits. How nice would our lineup look if we had Richards/Stepan/Anisimov/Boyle down the middle. Heck, if you want move Boyle to wing. Either way, that could be scary good. As I've said before, my only concern is the length (more-so than cost) of a Richards contract. If we could find a way for him to sign a 4 year deal I'd be thrilled.

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01-27-2011, 12:03 PM
  #54
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generally (title)
"Do you have interest....?"
yeah, we all should be open minded initially at least to every possible move, just to see what current options there are.

Specifically
"So would you move Anisimov + to get say Brent Burns? "
No.
Like Burns.
Like AA more.
Come up with another offer for Burns.

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01-27-2011, 12:04 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Boyle wore out his welcome in LA. Former 1st round pick moved for a measly 3rd rounder.

Eminger did the same, only a dozen more times. He was traded for the human punching bag, yet has been very solid here.

I think Wolski's staying here. You can nitpick all you want about his game, but he's been solid. Unless we witness a serious lull in his game, he's a keeper.
Where did I nitpick about his game? You're reading things I didn't write.

Boyle was a case of not living up to expectations, or not doing so fast enough for L.A.'s liking, and they gave up on him. Eminger is the same thing, only more teams have given up on him. The point is, neither player produced until they got here.

Wolski is on his 3rd team DESPITE his production. I'm sure Phoenix fans were ecstatic last year when he finished the season with 18 points in 18 games, and another 5 points in 7 playoff games. I'm sure they thought he was a keeper as well. Less than a year later they traded him.

Boyle and Eminger are having success here. Zherdev and Lisin did not. The story on Wolski is that he has more in common with Zherdev and Lisin than he does Boyle and Eminger (ie. work ethic issues, inconsistency).

As I said in my original post, I like what he's added to the team so far. I haven't seen any problem with his work ethic and he's created chances every game. But I'm not going to say he's part of the core after 9 games. To assume that he is going to be here long term is blinding yourself to both our recent history and Wolski's. I'm not saying he won't be great for us and be here for a long time. I'm just saying that 9 games is a little premature to assume it will be so.

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01-27-2011, 12:06 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I strongly feel Werek will be a mainstay on either the 3rd or 4th line very soon.

One of them is going to have to move to the wing if we acquire a #1 center. Highly doubtful it will be Werek, he's very good on faceoffs, considering the team's struggles in that area.

I'm starting to see less and less where we will be able to fit a very expensive 7+ mil center, financially.

Trading for Weiss could work due to lower financial cost, depending on what the package would be.

Grachev + Valentenko + Horak + Christensen

Something like that, maybe. Three good prospects and a useful roster player. Don't know if something like that gets it done, or if he's even available.
You may have updated info, but my understanding was any experimentation aside, Werek, who supposedly already has the great shot but needs to develop other aspects of his game, is projected to be a scoring W.

No on that particular package for Weiss, who is a productive player, but just doesn't blow me away, and doesn't seem to have the upside to go much farther.

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01-27-2011, 12:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is a conversation about a #1C, the most pressing need for this team, by far.

And you feel the need to bring up Ethan Werek and Stephen Weiss - I just dont get it.

I mean, I get your slobbering love affair with Ranger prospects and younger players in general, but at what point does importing young players into the lineup become awfully redundant considering none of them possess top-shelf/blue chip ceilings?

That's right, I brought up Werek. The conversation involved depth at the center position. Ethan Werek is highly regarded by the Rangers organization. You don't want him to be, tough ****, that's the way it is. Acquiring a #1 center would mean someone gets pushed out of the middle eventually. So, yea, Stepan, Anisimov, Boyle, and Ethan Werek have everything to do with the conversation.

They don't possess top shelf ceilings? LOL. You keep making yourself look more and more pathetic the more you try to contradict myself and others on the boards.

Stepan is on pace for 20+ goals, 40+ points as a 20 year old rookie. Sauer is staring to log big minutes as a shut-down defenseman. Anisimov is on pace to double his rookie season's production, McDonagh is the real deal, Staal has become an ELITE player at age 23, yea, Bleed, none of them have top shelf ceilings, whatever.

Stephen Weiss is a #1 center, that has a very reasonable cap hit of about 3 mil. He's a 60+ point player on a team that hasn't qualified for the playoffs in a very long time. And he's never had a guy like Gaborik on his wing. They may be looking to rebuild soon. Sacrificing some prospects that are not as high on our totem poll wouldn't be detrimental to the process here. Not while keeping guys like Kreider and Werek in the system.

My "slobering" over the prospects, that's hilarious, what's the NHL roster look like right now? Sauer, Stepan, McDonagh, Zuccarello, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Gilroy, Grachev... Either rookies or second year players.

You don't want more young players on the roster, well be prepared to be disappointed, they'll have more each of the next few seasons.

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01-27-2011, 12:13 PM
  #58
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Dubinsky and Callahan were considered 3rd line ceiling prospects at one point, and Girardi was a "#5 guy"

I don't see any reason why we couldn't plan on Stepan being our eventual #1 center.

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01-27-2011, 12:21 PM
  #59
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We can plan on Stepan being our number 1 center...

But do you realize how ridiculous our center depth could be if we signed Richards?

Richards: A top center in the NHL on the first line.
Stepan: eventual number 1 center on the second line- if you're one of the guys who thinks Jagr helped Dubi, or Dubi took some of his game from Jagr or whatever, having Richards groom Step would be amazing.
Anisimov: great defensively, good 2nd line center on the 3rd line. Considering how our team is starting to be built, our "checking" lines also have the potential to be potent offensive lines as well.
Boyle: Put him on the 4th, and Feds-Boyle-Prust finally becomes the best 4th line in the NHL. (replace Feds with someone if you do think he'll be resigned. At this point I hope he'll be given another year at a similar price.)


PP: Richards plays the point, let Boyle play in front of the net, and you can still give some PP time to Steps and Arty, too.

Getting Richards would be great for this team.

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01-27-2011, 12:24 PM
  #60
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It would be very good... for 2-3 years.

Firstly, the chances we can get Richards without giving up one of Stepan, Anisimov, or one of our core is very low.

Secondly, even if it somehow works capwise, 2-3 years down the road when Richards is dwindling, there is a possibility his cap will prevent us from locking up a now entering-his-prime Derek Stepan or Artem Anisimov to long term deals.

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01-27-2011, 12:25 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan were considered 3rd line ceiling prospects at one point, and Girardi was a "#5 guy"

I don't see any reason why we couldn't plan on Stepan being our eventual #1 center.
And championship organizations have Dubinsky's/Callahan's on their third line and Girardi's on the 2nd/3rd pair.

Are we talking about winning a championship, or are we talking about packing enough good/but not great prospects into the lineup to the point of redundancy?

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01-27-2011, 12:28 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
That's right, I brought up Werek. The conversation involved depth at the center position. Ethan Werek is highly regarded by the Rangers organization. You don't want him to be, tough ****, that's the way it is. Acquiring a #1 center would mean someone gets pushed out of the middle eventually. So, yea, Stepan, Anisimov, Boyle, and Ethan Werek have everything to do with the conversation.

They don't possess top shelf ceilings? LOL. You keep making yourself look more and more pathetic the more you try to contradict myself and others on the boards.

Stepan is on pace for 20+ goals, 40+ points as a 20 year old rookie. Sauer is staring to log big minutes as a shut-down defenseman. Anisimov is on pace to double his rookie season's production, McDonagh is the real deal, Staal has become an ELITE player at age 23, yea, Bleed, none of them have top shelf ceilings, whatever.

Stephen Weiss is a #1 center, that has a very reasonable cap hit of about 3 mil. He's a 60+ point player on a team that hasn't qualified for the playoffs in a very long time. And he's never had a guy like Gaborik on his wing. They may be looking to rebuild soon. Sacrificing some prospects that are not as high on our totem poll wouldn't be detrimental to the process here. Not while keeping guys like Kreider and Werek in the system.

My "slobering" over the prospects, that's hilarious, what's the NHL roster look like right now? Sauer, Stepan, McDonagh, Zuccarello, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Gilroy, Grachev... Either rookies or second year players.

You don't want more young players on the roster, well be prepared to be disappointed, they'll have more each of the next few seasons.


Ok, I guess nothing more needs to be said here - theres a fundamental difference in the belief of what a top tier player is between us.

I mean, if you think Stephen Weiss is a #1 center in the national hockey league, then it only makes sense that you're ******** bricks over the Rangers' prospects

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01-27-2011, 12:28 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan were considered 3rd line ceiling prospects at one point, and Girardi was a "#5 guy"

I don't see any reason why we couldn't plan on Stepan being our eventual #1 center.

I tend to agree.

A 20 year old rookie on pace for 20 goals, 40 points has tremendous upside.

Anisimov isn't too shabby himself.

Though I can see the side of the debate that would say getting someone like Richards (if its even financially plausable) and being in a winning environment would help progress their development even quicker.

But getting someone like Richards may not be possible due to cap restraints and having to resign our RFAs.

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01-27-2011, 12:30 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And championship organizations have Dubinsky's/Callahan's on their third line and Girardi's on the 2nd/3rd pair.

Are we talking about winning a championship, or are we talking about packing enough good/but not great prospects into the lineup to the point of redundancy?
That is just blatently untrue.

Pittsburgh would have Had Dubinsky AND Callahan as likely their top 2 wingers. Their top guys that year were Fedotenko and Sykora.

Detroit's #2 and #3 wingers in 07-08 were Cleary and Holmstrom with 20 goals apeice. Very similar talentwise to our pair.

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01-27-2011, 12:30 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan were considered 3rd line ceiling prospects at one point, and Girardi was a "#5 guy"

I don't see any reason why we couldn't plan on Stepan being our eventual #1 center.
Plan on it? Or hope for it? If we don't sign Richards and Stepan doesn't become a #1 center, then we won't be able to take that next step as a team. If we sign Richards and Stepan does become a #1 center, then we've got a great, cup contending team.

We all hope that Stepan will be a #1, but I don't think it's wise to put all of our chips on that bet. Having 2 #1 centers isn't a problem for the pens. I don't think it would be a problem for us.

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01-27-2011, 12:32 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
It would be very good... for 2-3 years.

Firstly, the chances we can get Richards without giving up one of Stepan, Anisimov, or one of our core is very low.

Secondly, even if it somehow works capwise, 2-3 years down the road when Richards is dwindling, there is a possibility his cap will prevent us from locking up a now entering-his-prime Derek Stepan or Artem Anisimov to long term deals.
No one is talking about trading for Richards. Dallas isn't going to trade him anyway. We're discussing signing him as a UFA.

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01-27-2011, 12:34 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post

We all hope that Stepan will be a #1, but I don't think it's wise to put all of our chips on that bet. Having 2 #1 centers isn't a problem for the pens. I don't think it would be a problem for us.
Plus, even if it looks like Stepan will develop into a #1, I think it's going to take 3-4 years of continued development before he's ready to compete and perform on par with some of the other top Centers in the conference.... He has to definitely get much stronger and improve his skating in addition to rounding out other parts of his game... Rangers can't really afford to wait around for him to develop into a #1 while key players like Henke and Gaborik are under contract....

My question is, do we have to entertain trading or buying out Wolski in addition to Drury to make Richards fit, if he's available?

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01-27-2011, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
No one is talking about trading for Richards. Dallas isn't going to trade him anyway. We're discussing signing him as a UFA.
I understand that, but I think its very unlikely that Richards gets that far.

To get him, and you guys seem to desperately think he is the only way this team can get better, we would need to trade, or somehow hope he made it to UFA AND somehow manage to get the cap space.

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01-27-2011, 12:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
That is just blatently untrue.

Pittsburgh would have Had Dubinsky AND Callahan as likely their top 2 wingers. Their top guys that year were Fedotenko and Sykora.

Detroit's #2 and #3 wingers in 07-08 were Cleary and Holmstrom with 20 goals apeice. Very similar talentwise to our pair.
well put. People get completely caught up in line roles and it ends up completely skewed b/c it's all based on the "ideal" or "best" version of each line which is never the case, for any team. (except maybe the Hawks last year, but thats an anomaly in the cap era )

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01-27-2011, 12:37 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post


Ok, I guess nothing more needs to be said here - theres a fundamental difference in the belief of what a top tier player is between us.

I mean, if you think Stephen Weiss is a #1 center in the national hockey league, then it only makes sense that you're ******** bricks over the Rangers' prospects

He's centering the top line, for the last couple of years, of an NHL hockey club. While putting up 60+ points.

Go continue fooling yourself about the young players.

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01-27-2011, 12:38 PM
  #71
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Weiss is a #1 center. He's just what we here call a "1B" rather than a "1A"

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01-27-2011, 12:43 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Weiss is a #1 center. He's just what we here call a "1B" rather than a "1A"
That's true.

It all depends on weather or not you want to pay 7+ million for the 1A.

Or save some cap space (about 5 million) to fill out the roster and get the 1B.

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01-27-2011, 01:00 PM
  #73
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While we are shooting around pipe-dreams of #1 centers being brought in to the Big Apple, what's the latest news on Stamkos as an RFA?

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01-27-2011, 01:09 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I understand that, but I think its very unlikely that Richards gets that far.

To get him, and you guys seem to desperately think he is the only way this team can get better, we would need to trade, or somehow hope he made it to UFA AND somehow manage to get the cap space.
Dallas has made it pretty clear there going to keep Richards until the end of the year. There leading there division by 5 points with two games in hand on Anaheim. They have proven to be one of the top dogs this season out West. Not to mention Richards is on pace for 90 some-odd points. It would not make any sense to dump him right now.

I think it really depends on where his heart lies over the summer. If Dallas flops in the first round and maybe the rangers make it past a few rounds or torts and co can do some convincing, maybe we can pry him from Dallas. In any regards, as 31 year old i think he would at least want to field some offers. I think the only way this team will be given a chance to get Richards is on the UFA market. This is all my opinion though.

Finally, for all the people having trouble with the cap numbers, think about this. Yes, next year will be a tight squeeze in fitting Richards under the cap, even if it goes up 2 million, but it will be doable. However, after that season off the books comes drury, avery and wolski. Thats somewhere around 12 million in cap space.

There will be absolutely no issue having two 7 million players (Gabby and Richards) and reupping all of our "core." As long as fair contracts are continously worked out (i.e. Girardi, Staal Etc.) I see no reason as to why nearly all our guys won't be kept.

And to be quite honest I would have no problem parting with someone if they are offered a big salary on the free market and want to leave over it. Fair contracts will work. There are only two superstars on this team right now that deserve big paydays. Stepan or Kreider could possibly end up being two more but lets see how they play out before we pencil them in on those salaries. Also, by the time Stepan gets a big payday, Richards will likely be nearing the end of his salary as will Gaborik

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01-27-2011, 01:10 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
That's true.

It all depends on weather or not you want to pay 7+ million for the 1A.

Or save some cap space (about 5 million) to fill out the roster and get the 1B.
You think a 1B center is going to play for 2 million dollars?

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