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Old
02-02-2011, 11:57 AM
  #1
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Schneider's Future

Has Gillis stated his short-term/long-term plans for Cory?

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02-02-2011, 12:12 PM
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Hammer79
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MG stated that they do have a plan for Schneider, but from what I've heard so far he hasn't been specific at all, other than him still being on track for ~25 games this year.

IMO, it won't be too long before he gets enough games under his belt that can be considered a legit #1. At that point, they will have to ship him out. He's not going to be happy as a back-up getting 25-30 games if there are several teams on which he would be the starter.

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02-02-2011, 12:14 PM
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Call up New Jersey and say "Hey, so yeah, Broduer is getting older..."

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02-02-2011, 12:27 PM
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Schneider, Raymond, Samuelsson, 1st.

for

Parise, Arnott.

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02-02-2011, 12:36 PM
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He's not going to want to stay a backup forever. That said, I don't think it hurts he development to get another season in the NHL getting 30 games next year if there isn't a deal to be made. No sense just shipping him off for the sake of shipping him off, especially when he clearly makes THIS team better.

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02-02-2011, 12:38 PM
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It's going to be interesting, with the emergence of Lack I wouldn't be surprised if Gillis shops Cory at draft... either to trade up or to get another #1 pick. There's plenty of teams that will be interested given how well Cory has played. There's some really good PWF prospects this year, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan...

But at the same time, he doesn't have to take just any offer and can keep him around for one more year.


Last edited by Tiranis: 02-02-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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02-02-2011, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's going to be interesting, with the emergence of Lack I wouldn't be surprised if Gillis shops Cody at draft... either to trade up or to get another #1 pick. There's plenty of teams that will be interested given how well Cody has played. There's some really good PWF prospects this year, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan...

But at the same time, he doesn't have to take just any offer and can keep him around for one more year.
Cory.

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02-02-2011, 12:50 PM
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Cory.
Haha, too much Hodgson...

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02-02-2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
But at the same time, he doesn't have to take just any offer and can keep him around for one more year.
We have control of him as an asset for more than the next year when his contract expires as a RFA.

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02-02-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RECsGuy View Post
Has Gillis stated his short-term/long-term plans for Cory?
"What's wrong with having two good goalies?" - Mike Gillis

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02-02-2011, 01:08 PM
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I don't think there is any hurry to do anything different with Schneider. Right now, he's probably the best backup in the game and there are a score of teams whose starters would backup Schneider. But the Canucks need that insurance for the stretch drive and playoffs, so there is zero chance he is traded before the end of the season.

After this season, I still think someone would have to make an obscene offer for Gillis to trade Schneider. This isn't projected to be a particularly deep draft pool this year, so a late first or early second round pick is probably not a good return. I think I would want a near NHL ready young defenseman or power forward with top 6 potential in return.

Schneider could easily stay and backup Luongo next season. While Eddie Lack is playing really well in Manitoba, he could probably use another year in the AHL. If he came up next year, I doubt the team would have the same confidence in him as a backup as they do in Schneider.

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02-02-2011, 01:13 PM
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If only somebody would take Luongo (wishful thinking) and keep Schneider (until he demands more than 2.5 mill, then go with the next guy). The Canucks could be on the verge of a dynasty. The only thing preventing that in Luongo's contract. Doesn't matter if he plays like the greatest goalie of all time. His value is his replacement value.

Big goalies with big equipment blocking pucks. The difference between the good and the so-called "great" goalie is not worth the money. Certainly not millions. Most GMs have seen the light.

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02-02-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarko2004 View Post
Big goalies with big equipment blocking pucks. The difference between the good and the so-called "great" goalie is not worth the money. Certainly not millions. Most GMs have seen the light.

Check out something like 3 year and 5 year stats for goalies, and see who ranks in the top 5 and top 10 the most. Guess what; its all these big money goalies. You get what you pay for.

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02-02-2011, 01:23 PM
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No reason to trade him in the short-term. If Luongo gets injured, it's not like our season has gone down drain. Granted there would be a downgrade in net but for what we'd get for him right now (a low 1st round pick 25th-30th at best - most likely high 2nd round pick) - better to keep him as the backup as insurance.

Long-term? He'll be dealt obviously. And keeping him now, with him getting some icetime & continually looking good, it only increases his value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
Check out something like 3 year and 5 year stats for goalies, and see who ranks in the top 5 and top 10 the most. Guess what; its all these big money goalies. You get what you pay for.
Unless you have the luxory of a Pronger on the blueline.

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02-02-2011, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarko2004 View Post
If only somebody would take Luongo (wishful thinking) and keep Schneider (until he demands more than 2.5 mill, then go with the next guy). The Canucks could be on the verge of a dynasty. The only thing preventing that in Luongo's contract. Doesn't matter if he plays like the greatest goalie of all time. His value is his replacement value.

Big goalies with big equipment blocking pucks. The difference between the good and the so-called "great" goalie is not worth the money. Certainly not millions. Most GMs have seen the light.
I disagree with this, categorically.

This season, our goalies have out performed most of the opposition goalies using the same equipment. Yes, Luongo has a slow start. Rolie Melanson made some pretty significant changes in his technique and approach, so it's not surprising that he had a slow start. But, with few exceptions, it takes good goal tending to win championships, and we have good goal tending.

As far as Luongo's contract goes, it is only the term that is ugly. But $5.3M for a core player who is among the best in the league at his position in not a bad cap situation. The Sedins, Kesler and Hamhuis are making the same, plus or minus half a million. I don't expect Luongo to play until he is 40 (he could), but there is no reason he couldn't play at this level for another 6 to 8 years. By that time, $5.33M is likely to look like an incredible bargain.

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02-02-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
Check out something like 3 year and 5 year stats for goalies, and see who ranks in the top 5 and top 10 the most. Guess what; its all these big money goalies. You get what you pay for.

Oh so if Schneider was ONLY 90% the goalie Luongo is, you couldn't spend 4 or 5 mill elsewhere? Do they give team trophys for top 5 goalies?

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02-02-2011, 01:31 PM
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Oh so if Schneider was ONLY 90% the goalie Luongo is, you couldn't spend 4 or 5 mill elsewhere? Do they give team trophys for top 5 goalies?
Unless there is a Pronger UFA out there, I wouldn't personally go with a "bargain basement" goalie option.

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02-02-2011, 01:36 PM
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Oh so if Schneider was ONLY 90% the goalie Luongo is, you couldn't spend 4 or 5 mill elsewhere? Do they give team trophys for top 5 goalies?
The problem is you have no idea how consistent Schneider is going to be. History is full of goalies that did well one year (and had all the markings of a future starter) only to go on and be nothing more than a decent backup for the rest of their careers. You also have no idea as to whether he can even handle a starter's workload, plenty of great prospects couldn't.

Big-money goalies get big-money because they have proven that they can be consistent from year to year. For an example of the opposite, look at Halak. Or did you not notice how every season the no-name cheap goalie differs?

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02-02-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarko2004 View Post
If only somebody would take Luongo (wishful thinking) and keep Schneider (until he demands more than 2.5 mill, then go with the next guy). The Canucks could be on the verge of a dynasty. The only thing preventing that in Luongo's contract. Doesn't matter if he plays like the greatest goalie of all time. His value is his replacement value.

Big goalies with big equipment blocking pucks. The difference between the good and the so-called "great" goalie is not worth the money. Certainly not millions. Most GMs have seen the light.
Ken Holland disagrees.
"My feeling is if you can get one of the five or six best goalies in the league you can spend the money," Holland said. "We can't get into those guys, and the difference between the eighth goalie in the league and the 15th goalie, it's a big difference in money. It's not a big difference in performance."

"We drafted defensemen, we put money into defensemen, I think we really build our team around our defense. Our goaltenders really are a perfect fit for our team. We're not looking for them to steal a series, we're looking for them to make the key save at the right time, don't let any weak goals go in."
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may...sp-elliott27/2

He says if you can get one of the elite goalies then you spend the money, if not then you spend your money in other areas as there is not a lot of difference between the middle of the pack starters in the NHL.
"The disparity between the best goalie in the League of the 30 starters and the 30th goalie is pretty different, but what's the difference between the 11th and the 20th?" Holland said. "At some point you're putting your team together and deciding where to spend your money and you have to make a decision on how much of a difference maker the goalie you're signing is. At the same time, if you are spending significant dollars on the best goalie then the other guy is going to have much more money to spend on skaters. There could be different options and plans, but certainly one option could be (spending less in goal)."
The San Jose Sharks decided to go with the cheaper goalie model and look what has happened to them this season.

As Holland says it is all about how you build your team and there are different options.


Last edited by Wetcoaster: 02-02-2011 at 01:48 PM.
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02-02-2011, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarko2004 View Post
If only somebody would take Luongo (wishful thinking) and keep Schneider (until he demands more than 2.5 mill, then go with the next guy). The Canucks could be on the verge of a dynasty. The only thing preventing that in Luongo's contract. Doesn't matter if he plays like the greatest goalie of all time. His value is his replacement value.

Big goalies with big equipment blocking pucks. The difference between the good and the so-called "great" goalie is not worth the money. Certainly not millions. Most GMs have seen the light.
This is getting so old.

This whole idea that cheap goaltenders win you the Cup is garbage. Almost every Stanley Cup winning team in the last decade has done so with highly paid goaltenders:

2000 - Martin Brodeur: $4,130,687
2001 - Patrick Roy: $7,500,000
2002 - Dominik Hasek: $8,000,000
2003 - Martin Brodeur: $6,891,103
2004 - Nikolai Khabibulin: $4,434,579
2006 - Cam Ward: $684,000 (cap hit is now 6.3m)
2007 - Jean-Sebastien Giguere: $3,990,000 (cap hit is now 6m)
2008 - Chris Osgood: $800,000
2009 - Marc-Andre Fleury: $3,500,000 (cap hit right now is 5m)
2010 - Antti Niemi: $826,875

Remember that in Chicago Niemi started the year as backup to Huet, who was getting paid $5,625,000. They won the Stanley Cup, but did so by spending MORE money on goaltending than the Canucks are this year.

The only teams that have bucked the trend and spent well below average have been Carolina and Detroit, though Ward is now one of the highest paid goalies in the league and in Detroit, Osgood started the year under Hasek who was getting paid $2,050,000.

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02-02-2011, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neksys View Post
He's not going to want to stay a backup forever. That said, I don't think it hurts he development to get another season in the NHL getting 30 games next year if there isn't a deal to be made. No sense just shipping him off for the sake of shipping him off, especially when he clearly makes THIS team better.
No but it does hurt his trade value. He's a UFA at the end of next season, meaning his trade value is at its all-time high between the trade deadline and the start of training camp 2011.

With the emergence of Eddie Lack, I think we'll still have a very very solid backup on our hands next year (1.98GAA .929SVP as of this posting).

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02-02-2011, 02:06 PM
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Tampa put Mike Smith on waivers today.

A cautionary tale for those who expect a big return for Schneider in the future.

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02-02-2011, 02:07 PM
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Tampa put Mike Smith on waivers today.

A cautionary tale for those who expect a big return for Schneider in the future.
???

Mike Smith has been absolute garbage. But if you look at his history, when he was in the exact same position as Schneider is in now he brought back Brad Richards.

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02-02-2011, 02:09 PM
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???

Mike Smith has been absolute garbage. But if you look at his history, when he was in the exact same position as Schneider is in now he brought back Brad Richards.
Yeah and because of how he's turned out, I doubt a 'great backup' is going to bring back a ton now like Smith did.

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02-02-2011, 02:09 PM
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Yeah and because of how he's turned out, I doubt a 'great backup' is going to bring back a ton now like Smith did.
Except Schneider has played even better than Smith did at the time he was dealt.

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