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01-27-2011, 01:50 PM
  #1
okie21
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Calvin de Haan Article

Here's an article from the Oshawa Express about de Haan from 1/11/11. Not to long, here it is if you wanna check it out...http://www.oshawaexpress.ca/viewposting.php?view=647

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01-27-2011, 02:15 PM
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Good article, thanks for finding this.

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01-27-2011, 02:57 PM
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I'm starting to become convinced de Haan will become a solid #3/4 puck moving defenseman.. very similar to Andy McDonald... One problem with McDonald is limited size and toughness and he gets pushed around a bit... I think that will be the case with DeHaan...

DeHaan will be a real good fixture in the middle of our defense, but not a top pairing game changer we were hoping for when the Isles gave up alot to draft him at #12 overall.

I actually see McDonald, Hamonic and DeHaan all as #3/4 type defensemen on a good team... with Mark Streit as our only true top pairing defenseman.... We need another true top pairing guy:

Top pairing: Streit and ???
Second pairing types: McDonald, Hamonic, DeHaan, Martinek
Bottom pairing: Jurcina, Eaton

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01-27-2011, 05:03 PM
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Sidney the Kidney
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I think de Haan has a bit more offensive upside than MacDonald, but having seen MacDonald play multiple times now, I do agree that their actual overall game is very similar in both the defensive end (ie. smart positioning and anticipation over brute strength and physicality) and in transition (mobile, good outlet passes). I think de Haan just has a bit more puck skills and offensive awareness.

Looking at the Isles' future defense corps, I wonder if they will be pushing for Larsson this draft. Streit's a legitimate #1, but he's also 33 years old. By the time all the youngsters are starting to hit their prime in, say, 4 or 5 years (putting guys like de Haan, Hamonic, MacDonald all in their mid to late 20s), he'll be 37 or 38. He might not still be capable of being a #1 by that time.

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01-27-2011, 05:47 PM
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I don't see a future for Martinek here....he will be dealt at the deadline if not sooner

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01-28-2011, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
I'm starting to become convinced de Haan will become a solid #3/4 puck moving defenseman.. very similar to Andy McDonald... One problem with McDonald is limited size and toughness and he gets pushed around a bit... I think that will be the case with DeHaan...

DeHaan will be a real good fixture in the middle of our defense, but not a top pairing game changer we were hoping for when the Isles gave up alot to draft him at #12 overall.

I actually see McDonald, Hamonic and DeHaan all as #3/4 type defensemen on a good team... with Mark Streit as our only true top pairing defenseman.... We need another true top pairing guy:

Top pairing: Streit and ???
Second pairing types: McDonald, Hamonic, DeHaan, Martinek
Bottom pairing: Jurcina, Eaton
Andy MacDonald is an excellent dman and mostly does his damage with stickwork rather than physicallity. He has been getting better in all facets of the game and I think his biggest weakness is lack of goal scoring. Lidstrom is a guy who isn't overly physical either, but he's likely the best dman of his generation. You don't need to be physical to be a great dman, just really effective. As it stands right now AMac's shortcomings are on the offensive side, but this too is improving.

As far as your point about picking #12 and "only" drafting a top 4 dman, I could not disagree more. There are plently of players drafted within the 1st round that don't even make the NHL, let alone become a top 6 forward or top 4 dman.

Here is a list of some 12th overall picks since 2003:

2003 - H. Jessiman (a little misleading because he was the only bust in this range)
2004 - AJ. Thelen
2005 - M. Staal
2006 - B. Little
2007 - R. McDonagh
2008 - T. Myers
2009 - C. de Haan
2010 - C. Fowler

It's a mixed bag, just like the rest of the draft. You have good, bad, and the ugly. However, any time you draft a top 6 forward or a top 4 dman, it's a success regardless of the number of draft picks you gave up to get him.

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01-28-2011, 12:06 PM
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periferal
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If you assume that our next few years on D will include:

Streit
Hamonic
MacDonald
DeHaan

Even after you add in Eaton, Martinek, Mottau, Gervais, Jurcina, and even prospects like Donovan, Kessel, and Wishart....There is basically ZERO size/toughness from the defense.

We MUST get bigger and stronger on D. I know guys like Pronger and Shea Weber don't grow on trees, but we need to start trying to add guys like that.

To me, our forward and goalie situations are beginning to take shape and I believe that many of the solutions for those two positions are in our system already. However there are no defenseman in our system that can truly address our need for size/toughness.

At some point I fully expect Snow/future GM to have to make a deal like Bailey, Petrov, and a 1st round pick for a Pronger/Weber type. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes because we need it.

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01-28-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periferal View Post
If you assume that our next few years on D will include:

Streit
Hamonic
MacDonald
DeHaan

Even after you add in Eaton, Martinek, Mottau, Gervais, Jurcina, and even prospects like Donovan, Kessel, and Wishart....There is basically ZERO size/toughness from the defense.

We MUST get bigger and stronger on D. I know guys like Pronger and Shea Weber don't grow on trees, but we need to start trying to add guys like that.

To me, our forward and goalie situations are beginning to take shape and I believe that many of the solutions for those two positions are in our system already. However there are no defenseman in our system that can truly address our need for size/toughness.

At some point I fully expect Snow/future GM to have to make a deal like Bailey, Petrov, and a 1st round pick for a Pronger/Weber type. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes because we need it.


This is the only way i would trade Bailey - in a deal like that . I would do that this year if we could sign Shea Weber to a long term contract.

Hamonic plays a tough game hits, fights.

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01-28-2011, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think de Haan has a bit more offensive upside than MacDonald, but having seen MacDonald play multiple times now, I do agree that their actual overall game is very similar in both the defensive end (ie. smart positioning and anticipation over brute strength and physicality) and in transition (mobile, good outlet passes). I think de Haan just has a bit more puck skills and offensive awareness.

Looking at the Isles' future defense corps, I wonder if they will be pushing for Larsson this draft. Streit's a legitimate #1, but he's also 33 years old. By the time all the youngsters are starting to hit their prime in, say, 4 or 5 years (putting guys like de Haan, Hamonic, MacDonald all in their mid to late 20s), he'll be 37 or 38. He might not still be capable of being a #1 by that time.
DeeHan has more offensive potential than Macdonald. We can only hope Calvin has half the defensive ability of Andy, but I doubt any of us expected MacDonald to ever become a top 3 defenseman for this hockey team. This is why we are afforded the opportunity to take our time with Calvin, but make no mistake, his 9 game tryout should come at some point next season.

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01-28-2011, 12:52 PM
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This is the only way i would trade Bailey - in a deal like that . I would do that this year if we could sign Shea Weber to a long term contract.

Hamonic plays a tough game hits, fights.

He sure does...And I love him for it. I think no other player we have plays the game "right" like Hamonic does. He's going to be a force when he fully grows into the NHL.

However he's the only defenseman we have in our system that plays tough and with an edge. You aren't going to win a Cup without getting tougher so we NEED to start adding defenders who have size and play tough.

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01-28-2011, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
He sure does...And I love him for it. I think no other player we have plays the game "right" like Hamonic does. He's going to be a force when he fully grows into the NHL.

However he's the only defenseman we have in our system that plays tough and with an edge. You aren't going to win a Cup without getting tougher so we NEED to start adding defenders who have size and play tough.
Richie Pilon with more skill?

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01-28-2011, 01:50 PM
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Richie Pilon with more skill?
absolutely, but i'd even take pilon as he was. just make him 25 again. reliable defensive guy who hit hard and fought all comers. he was a bit injury prone, due to his style of play.

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01-28-2011, 02:54 PM
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periferal
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absolutely, but i'd even take pilon as he was. just make him 25 again. reliable defensive guy who hit hard and fought all comers. he was a bit injury prone, due to his style of play.

Given the Polo players we have running around on D currently, Pilon in his prime would certainly be welcomed back now.

However, if I'm aiming for a Stanley Cup, I'd like to have more size and talent there.

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01-28-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Looking at the Isles' future defense corps, I wonder if they will be pushing for Larsson this draft. Streit's a legitimate #1, but he's also 33 years old. By the time all the youngsters are starting to hit their prime in, say, 4 or 5 years (putting guys like de Haan, Hamonic, MacDonald all in their mid to late 20s), he'll be 37 or 38. He might not still be capable of being a #1 by that time.
I think if the Islanders were strong up the middle, their young d-men would suddenly appear to be of higher quality. So it's really six of one, half dozen of the other.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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01-28-2011, 03:08 PM
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In the limited amount of games I have seen Calvin play, he reminds me A LOT of a young Kenny Jonsson who, and a lot of people tend to forget this, was not wonderful in his own end by ANY stretch when he first came up.

He was always silky smooth with the puck but was pushed around and caught out of position quite a bit in his first couple of seasons before maturing into one of the most under rated players the NHL has ever seen. If Calvin can even approach becoming a player like that, we did the right thing by trading up to get him.

For me, defenseman drafted in round 1 need 3-5 years before you can really form an opinion based in any kind of reality because the learning curve is so much more involved than say a forward or even a goaltender. So many of these kids survive on pure skill alone as they come up the ranks and are never really challenged to have to "think the game" as they do when they get to the NHL.

I'm excited to see him play over an entire season to get a better handle on his potential but, so far, I like what I have seen from him and expect him to be around here for a long time. Of course, that's just conjecture on my part...only time will tell if it was a good idea to move those assets in an effort to draft him.

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01-28-2011, 03:30 PM
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In the limited amount of games I have seen Calvin play, he reminds me A LOT of a young Kenny Jonsson who, and a lot of people tend to forget this, was not wonderful in his own end by ANY stretch when he first came up.

He was always silky smooth with the puck but was pushed around and caught out of position quite a bit in his first couple of seasons before maturing into one of the most under rated players the NHL has ever seen. If Calvin can even approach becoming a player like that, we did the right thing by trading up to get him.

For me, defenseman drafted in round 1 need 3-5 years before you can really form an opinion based in any kind of reality because the learning curve is so much more involved than say a forward or even a goaltender. So many of these kids survive on pure skill alone as they come up the ranks and are never really challenged to have to "think the game" as they do when they get to the NHL.

I'm excited to see him play over an entire season to get a better handle on his potential but, so far, I like what I have seen from him and expect him to be around here for a long time. Of course, that's just conjecture on my part...only time will tell if it was a good idea to move those assets in an effort to draft him.

Great post and agreed. If all goes well we can let DeHaan stew in the AHL for a while so that we he gets to the NHL he's ready both physically and mentally.

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01-28-2011, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by okie21 View Post
Here's an article from the Oshawa Express about de Haan from 1/11/11. Not to long, here it is if you wanna check it out...http://www.oshawaexpress.ca/viewposting.php?view=647
Wally Donaldson is a horrible writer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Donaldson
Given the unexpected transactions of what did go down against Russia, the third-period turn of events is, throughout this grand hockey-crazed country of ours, on a page with the Chernobyl disaster which, ironically, took place in what was the Soviet Union 24 years ago.
I would have rather not read this piece. Seriously? Hyperbole much? Bad use of comparison? I am surprised he didn't mention Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders in this article.

Edit: And "(Mark) Kassian"?!

WTF.

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01-28-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
I'm starting to become convinced de Haan will become a solid #3/4 puck moving defenseman.. very similar to Andy McDonald... One problem with McDonald is limited size and toughness and he gets pushed around a bit... I think that will be the case with DeHaan...

DeHaan will be a real good fixture in the middle of our defense, but not a top pairing game changer we were hoping for when the Isles gave up alot to draft him at #12 overall.

I actually see McDonald, Hamonic and DeHaan all as #3/4 type defensemen on a good team... with Mark Streit as our only true top pairing defenseman.... We need another true top pairing guy:

Top pairing: Streit and ???
Second pairing types: McDonald, Hamonic, DeHaan, Martinek
Bottom pairing: Jurcina, Eaton
He should be a fixture on the PP.

A guess;

Streit-Eaton
McDonald-Hamonic
Jurcina-DeHaan-Mottau

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01-29-2011, 09:46 AM
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RWWallpaper
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Great post and agreed. If all goes well we can let DeHaan stew in the AHL for a while so that we he gets to the NHL he's ready both physically and mentally.
Amen on that...

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01-29-2011, 11:28 AM
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He should be a fixture on the PP.

A guess;

Streit-Eaton
McDonald-Hamonic
Jurcina-DeHaan-Mottau
No Ty Wishert?

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01-30-2011, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Given the Polo players we have running around on D currently, Pilon in his prime would certainly be welcomed back now.

However, if I'm aiming for a Stanley Cup, I'd like to have more size and talent there.
As much as I loved RP growing up, he would be in tough to make the Islanders in the new NHL...he was slow back then in a much slower NHL.

I do agree we need to get tougher...and bigger on defense- but this has to be without giving up speed and puck moving ability. The new NHL sees smaller, more mobile defensemen to counter the unobstructed forecheck in the game today.

de Haan will do what MacDonald already does, and much, much more.

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01-30-2011, 09:38 PM
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A smart, tough stay at home defenseman who can't skate like Paul Coffey? Take him in the back and shoot him.

Skating is nice. What's upstairs beats what's downstairs 110% of the time. I would take Richie Pilon over every defenseman we have not named Streit. That includes Marty and MacDonald.

Especially with coach go-go-gonads fired and almost gone.

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01-31-2011, 09:47 AM
  #23
periferal
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Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post
As much as I loved RP growing up, he would be in tough to make the Islanders in the new NHL...he was slow back then in a much slower NHL.

I do agree we need to get tougher...and bigger on defense- but this has to be without giving up speed and puck moving ability. The new NHL sees smaller, more mobile defensemen to counter the unobstructed forecheck in the game today.

de Haan will do what MacDonald already does, and much, much more.

Sounds good. Now who's going provide the size and toughness that none of our defensive prospects have?

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01-31-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post
As much as I loved RP growing up, he would be in tough to make the Islanders in the new NHL...he was slow back then in a much slower NHL.

I do agree we need to get tougher...and bigger on defense- but this has to be without giving up speed and puck moving ability. The new NHL sees smaller, more mobile defensemen to counter the unobstructed forecheck in the game today.

de Haan will do what MacDonald already does, and much, much more.
Hopefully.

Somehow I keep thinking de Haan is going to be more of a Joe Corvo type than anything else.

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01-31-2011, 01:27 PM
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OlTimeHockey
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Sounds good. Now who's going provide the size and toughness that none of our defensive prospects have?
Who needs size? We have Peggy Fleming! Think about an entire speedy defensive corps with speed and, uh, speed! Fast like Bruno, for God's sake! Scott Stevens would never cut it in this league. He can't Ice Mambo or Cha Cha. Those are tough dance routines on skates, so...there's your toughness.

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