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Toronto to make a big move (or moves?)

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Old
01-28-2011, 02:20 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I feel so bad for Leafs fans, so bad...

Kessel = Overpaid and not consistent
Kadri = Most likely a first round bust
Versteeg = Marginal 2nd/3rd line player on a Stanley Cup team
Bozak = Over hyped NCAA player and not drafted for a reason a la Brunnstrom
Komisarek = Slow, one dimensional and off ice problems in Montreal and now Toronto
Beauchemin = Overpaid and only played well with Niedermeyer in Anaheim
Gustavsson = Over hyped goalie and might never be able to play like a solid number one in the NHL ever

Aside from that, no 1st round draft pick in 2010 and 2011
Heh, and Kadri was called the most overrated prospect in the polls on here. Only on the Leafs would the guy be a first round bust at 20.

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01-28-2011, 02:21 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not saying that Kessel is not a nice asset to have...however, he could have gotten a similar player as a UFA and maybe paid a bit more in terms of cap hit but still had the 3 high draft picks.

What made it a bad deal is that at that time Toronto had little depth on the farm and as much as he tried to pass off the Bozak, Gustvsson and Hanson signings as "1st round calibre" they were far from that.

If a team knocking on the door to the cup(Vancouver or Phillie thius year) makes that type of deal it makes a lot more sense, but not a team entering a long rebuild.
Your also limiting the potential for prospect depth to only the first round which is illogical.

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01-28-2011, 02:22 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Heh, it's TSN, it's almost like they are saying:

'We HOPE/WANT Toronto to do something so we don't have to talk about how much the Leafs suck all year.'
Oh TSN has been saying that a lot already this year.

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01-28-2011, 02:24 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I feel so bad for Leafs fans, so bad...

Kessel = Overpaid and not consistent
Kadri = Most likely a first round bust
Versteeg = Marginal 2nd/3rd line player on a Stanley Cup team
Bozak = Over hyped NCAA player and not drafted for a reason a la Brunnstrom
Komisarek = Slow, one dimensional and off ice problems in Montreal and now Toronto
Beauchemin = Overpaid and only played well with Niedermeyer in Anaheim
Gustavsson = Over hyped goalie and might never be able to play like a solid number one in the NHL ever

Aside from that, no 1st round draft pick in 2010 and 2011
hahaha!

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01-28-2011, 02:29 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Oh TSN has been saying that a lot already this year.
You realize they do the exact same thing for the draft each year right? They hype it up (to the point of overhyping it) to get views and an audience. The media is more than half the reason first round picks are so ridiculously overrated these days.

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01-28-2011, 02:30 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by reinjosh View Post
Your operating under the assumption that those firsts will turn into anything at all. Doing so is foolish. Burke paid up those picks for a sure thing. Should those picks equal a value greater than Kessel, that it was a bad deal, but should they not, he made an astute deal. Neither is known, and as such the deal cannot be called a bust or win.
1st rounders are not a sure thing, but top 5 picks are pretty close to it. I'm pretty sure that deal is a pretty big fail so far and most in the hockey world would agree.

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01-28-2011, 02:32 PM
  #332
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Your also limiting the potential for prospect depth to only the first round which is illogical.
The 1st round isn't the only place to get good players, but I'm pretty sure that if you look at the NHL all star rosters that there are more all stars from the 1st round than the other 90% of drafted/signed players out of junior/college/Europe.

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01-28-2011, 02:34 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
1st rounders are not a sure thing, but top 5 picks are pretty close to it. I'm pretty sure that deal is a pretty big fail so far and most in the hockey world would agree.
So if the 2011 1st round isn't a top 5 pick?

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01-28-2011, 02:35 PM
  #334
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There is a large difference between a 27y/o 36 goal scorer and a 21 y/o 36 goal scorer.
Kessel is making over 5 mil so what is the big difference if he was 21 or 27? I don't think he is a guy that will take his game to superstar level, he's a selfish loner type, not a guy that will make everybody on his team better.

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01-28-2011, 02:36 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I feel so bad for Leafs fans, so bad...

Kessel = Overpaid and not consistent
Kadri = Most likely a first round bust
Versteeg = Marginal 2nd/3rd line player on a Stanley Cup team
Bozak = Over hyped NCAA player and not drafted for a reason a la Brunnstrom
Komisarek = Slow, one dimensional and off ice problems in Montreal and now Toronto
Beauchemin = Overpaid and only played well with Niedermeyer in Anaheim
Gustavsson = Over hyped goalie and might never be able to play like a solid number one in the NHL ever

Aside from that, no 1st round draft pick in 2010 and 2011
I lol'd


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01-28-2011, 02:37 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
1st rounders are not a sure thing, but top 5 picks are pretty close to it. I'm pretty sure that deal is a pretty big fail so far and most in the hockey world would agree.
And most of the hockey world could be described as impressionable minds who can hardly think for themselves. Saying the deal is a pretty big fail is illogical in every sense. Tell me how its a fail? Saying top 2 means very little when the player you speak of is on pace for only 26 points. Explain it to me.

But continue to push the fail aspect right now, by all means. Making yourself looking like a moron is alright by me.

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01-28-2011, 02:38 PM
  #337
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So if the 2011 1st round isn't a top 5 pick?
If it's not top 5 it will be #6. Unless somebody ahead of them completely falls apart their pick will be top 6 so Boston has a good chance at getting Landeskeg Nugent-Hopkins Couturier or Larsson. Worst case a very good young player in Hamilton, Strome or Murphy.

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01-28-2011, 02:39 PM
  #338
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I lol'd

Well... WestIslander has a pretty good evaluation. Except for Bozak and Kessel (who isn't overpaid).

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01-28-2011, 02:40 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Kessel is making over 5 mil so what is the big difference if he was 21 or 27? I don't think he is a guy that will take his game to superstar level, he's a selfish loner type, not a guy that will make everybody on his team better.
well with him being 21 hes worth waiting to see how he pans out. he should be scoring over 40 goals a year which would be big for the leafs to have. hey look at your name you should know about waiting for a youngster to come around. im glad montreal held onto price. i think he will be a good goalie as he gets older and more experienced.

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01-28-2011, 02:40 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by reinjosh View Post
And most of the hockey world could be described as impressionable minds who can hardly think for themselves. Saying the deal is a pretty big fail is illogical in every sense. Tell me how its a fail? Saying top 2 means very little when the player you speak of is on pace for only 26 points. Explain it to me.

But continue to push the fail aspect right now, by all means. Making yourself looking like a moron is alright by me.
Right...so the whole hockey world is wrong and you are right?

...and agreeing with the huge majority makes ME look like a moron...good one!

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01-28-2011, 02:41 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Kessel is making over 5 mil so what is the big difference if he was 21 or 27? I don't think he is a guy that will take his game to superstar level, he's a selfish loner type, not a guy that will make everybody on his team better.
Your kidding me right? Do you have any concept of development? 27 year isn't going to develop past what he has already displayed (very very rare that it happens). 23 year still has two or three years to grow and hit their prime meaning the 30 goals could get to 40 and closer to 50.

He also wasn't acquired to make other players better. He was acquired to score goals and to be an offensive threat for the Leafs.

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01-28-2011, 02:43 PM
  #342
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WestIslander is lolz

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01-28-2011, 02:44 PM
  #343
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Well... WestIslander has a pretty good evaluation. Except for Bozak and Kessel (who isn't overpaid).
Hes paid 5.4 million to score 30 goals/50 points and nothing else. Some people even say Penner is overpaid at 4.1 but he scores around a 25/25 pace a year.

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01-28-2011, 02:44 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by tankotopgun View Post
well with him being 21 hes worth waiting to see how he pans out. he should be scoring over 40 goals a year which would be big for the leafs to have. hey look at your name you should know about waiting for a youngster to come around. im glad montreal held onto price. i think he will be a good goalie as he gets older and more experienced.
Goalies in general develop a lot later than forwards. Not really a good comparison.

Kessel has the same issues in Toronto that he had in Boston...not a big team player...won't go into traffic...very streaky...one dimensional player. It's not a big shocker that he hasn't been a huge success.

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01-28-2011, 02:44 PM
  #345
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Right...so the whole hockey world is wrong and you are right?

...and agreeing with the huge majority makes ME look like a moron...good one!
have to see how seguin and the next guy do before judging deal. who knows they could be the next pat faloon ro alex daigle. but hey lottery picks are guarenteed right?

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01-28-2011, 02:46 PM
  #346
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blah, blah, blah... more hot air coming from Burkie.

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01-28-2011, 02:46 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Goalies in general develop a lot later than forwards. Not really a good comparison.

Kessel has the same issues in Toronto that he had in Boston...not a big team player...won't go into traffic...very streaky...one dimensional player. It's not a big shocker that he hasn't been a huge success.
sounds a bit like dany heatley to me? how many 35+ goal seasons did he have? i really dont care that hes not a grinder. im saying they need to aquire another guy for that i just care that kessel puts it in the net.

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01-28-2011, 02:47 PM
  #348
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Right...so the whole hockey world is wrong and you are right?

...and agreeing with the huge majority makes ME look like a moron...good one!
Quite simply put, yes the entire hockey world is wrong right now. Will they be in three years? Maybe not, but the point of my comment was to say that judging the deal is illogical right now. None of the assets are done developing. Judging it right now is like picking out what plant in you garden will produce the most fruit for you.

If you look at the deal from a purely hockey, one year base, the Leafs are the clear winners. The Bruins missed Kessel in the 2nd round last year and Kessel is clearly the better player compared to Seguin right now. Looking at it three years in the future can change everything. Kessel could be a 50 goal scorer, Seguin a bust and none of the other picks are in the NHL. Kessel could be a but and Seguin, Knight and the other pick could be killing it. Kessel could be a 40 goal 80 point player and Seguin could be a two way player with Knight not in the NHL and the other pick just getting to the NHL. The point is we don't know and saying one side clearly wins over the other at this point is nothing short of moronic conjecture.

Obviously your too stupid to think for yourself though, so go ahead and listen to people who clearly have no clue how an asset can vary in its worth and disregard this comment.

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01-28-2011, 02:48 PM
  #349
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Your kidding me right? Do you have any concept of development? 27 year isn't going to develop past what he has already displayed (very very rare that it happens). 23 year still has two or three years to grow and hit their prime meaning the 30 goals could get to 40 and closer to 50.

He also wasn't acquired to make other players better. He was acquired to score goals and to be an offensive threat for the Leafs.
Some players hit their prime at 20-21 and don't improve much after. Guys like Crosby Ovechkin did that, Phaneuf had his better years at 22-23 and regressed afterwards.

Kessel is on a worst pace this year and last year than at 21...I know he lost Savard but he's also getting about 5 more minutes a game...if your theory was correct he should be progressing not regressing.

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01-28-2011, 02:49 PM
  #350
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sounds a bit like dany heatley to me? how many 35+ goal seasons did he have? i really dont care that hes not a grinder. im saying they need to aquire another guy for that i just care that kessel puts it in the net.
Heatley was not afraid of the front of the net and traffic, plus he is 220 or more lbs.

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